Thai Airways ponders bankruptcy as it enters rehab

[Canuck1966]

15 minutes ago, tomacht8 said:

The whole Thai Airways structure is financed with tax payers money. Has had massive 3digit million Doller losses for years. Thai Airways has become a self-service shop for connected people. Upper class free flights, dividend payments despite losses, fat management salaries, fat pensions and everything for little work.
A declaration of bankruptcy would be a blessing for the taxpayers.

Thai Airways to file for bankruptcy after green lighted by SEPO

 

The company will likely default on its debts by the end of this month.

[hotchilli]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

Thai social media has turned on the national carrier wondering why they are eligible for a massive state bailout and loans whilst many Thais, now out of work, are struggling to get their 5,000 baht hand-out from the government or end up waiting in food queues each day.

Let it collapse, it's a failed company run by idiots who know nothing about airline structuring or competing in the modern world.

Use the "intended" bail-out money on those who need it more.

[Creasy]

Just like 'Old Yeller'.  Thai Airways needs to be taken out back and put down for it's own good.

[Thomas J]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

government ponders a bailout valued around 60 billion baht, around US$1.8 billion.

Did they ever consider a reasonable first step to a "bail out" is letting them fly again? 

[sangtip2]

5 hours ago, keithkarmann said:

Still waiting for my refund 4 weeks now.

I am waiting for a refund from EVA  --  been 9 weeks now .

[ncc1701d]

They are already bankrupt. Both financially and morally. With the amounts they pay their frontline staff and the prices they charge for their tickets, the only acceptable way for the government to bail them out is a complete overhaul of management. Shut the airline down until these are formally in place. Bringing aircraft out of storage and keeping legal recency issues of cabin crew and pilots are significant issues, one that they are clearly not able to handle. They need to put face aside and they need outside help.

[Canuck1966]

1 minute ago, ncc1701d said:

They are already bankrupt. Both financially and morally. With the amounts they pay their frontline staff and the prices they charge for their tickets, the only acceptable way for the government to bail them out is a complete overhaul of management. Shut the airline down until these are formally in place. Bringing aircraft out of storage and keeping legal recency issues of cabin crew and pilots are significant issues, one that they are clearly not able to handle. They need to put face aside and they need outside help.

Thai Airways to file for bankruptcy after green lighted by SEPO

The company will likely default on its debts by the end of this month.

[Burma Bill]

Ah! - that sinking feeling!!!!

 

[pgs]

5 hours ago, bruceprior said:

However it turns out I have a feeling that I should have taken the refund instead of rolling over the ticket until BNE -> BKK comes back to life!!

Crossing my fingers.......

Thai consul in Sydney said last Friday that Thai Air will start TH-AU flights again in July.

Accuracy? Who knows.

[natway09]

Put it into voluntary liquidation.

Appoint an International Group of receivers & take the existing board, cronies in Government to step back  (Flight Admiral Air Marshall Somchai or thatever may be able to fly a plane but has no idea of running a big business airline).

Contary to some it is a great time for a rescue package to work if a CEO is given a non interfering 

go ahead to assess, plan, get rid of the deadwood, the leakage & start afresh.

The right man in the right place can make it work & I for one think it is worth saving. Why,?

It's location on the map alone gives it  a very good chance.

Many experienced airline managers would love the opportunity but can the Government swallow the pill 

of non interference to allow

[Polang]

Covid-19 is the perfect excuse to give an end to a big problem such as Thai Airways. 

If they really cared anyway. 

This company is in business only to care about generals hi-so the elite and thousands of employees that have been put in such a privileged job. 

An end of an Era or time for a big handout, changing Thai Airways business model and mentality isn't going to happen without making many big dogs sad.... So it is better for Thai people to be bankrupt and sold. 

[salsajapan]

Thousands people getting salary for years but not even working must be worried...

 

 

[bangrak]

24 minutes ago, natway09 said:

Put it into voluntary liquidation.

Appoint an International Group of receivers & take the existing board, cronies in Government to step back  (Flight Admiral Air Marshall Somchai or thatever may be able to fly a plane but has no idea of running a big business airline).

Contary to some it is a great time for a rescue package to work if a CEO is given a non interfering 

go ahead to assess, plan, get rid of the deadwood, the leakage & start afresh.

The right man in the right place can make it work & I for one think it is worth saving. Why,?

It's location on the map alone gives it  a very good chance.

Many experienced airline managers would love the opportunity but can the Government swallow the pill 

of non interference to allow

We're posting the same common sense stuff for many years now, while we know the present, like any other, Thai "government" will never hand over top (and middle) management to non-Thais, and the more so WITH FULL DECISION POWER! And we even know why...

[edwinchester]

6 hours ago, keithkarmann said:

Still waiting for my refund 4 weeks now.

Same, I was told it can take up to 3 months to be paid out. If they declare bankruptcy soon I guess we can kiss a refund goodbye.

[Mung]

8 hours ago, Vigilante said:

Terrible time for any rehabilitation, restructuring or anything of the sort.

Air travel in the dole-drums for the next year or so, no sane investor will be pouring any money in a bloated, bankrupt company

 

Not Thai airways, but there are a few airline stocks where it would be wise to dump some money into considering their value has crashed. 

[BobbyL]

Those losses are incredible. Pre - Covid 19 they were losing 1 billion THB / month on average. Add in now the worst pandemic in a lifetime and THAI is literally looking at years, if not a decade of more losses.

 

As I said in another thread last week, it would be great if one day we get a full exposé on how they have been ran in recent years. I bet there are some absolutely unbelievable payments and deals that have gone on behind the scenes. 

 

I bet that story of the THAI pilot kicking out paying first class guests so he could be on the flight (Zurich I think) that was in the news a few years ago is literally nothing compared to what really goes on in secret. 

 

[hottrader77]

6 hours ago, keithkarmann said:

Still waiting for my refund 4 weeks now.

As long as thai airways does not go bust until after august im not bothered as I am going back to useless government uk  in july , no job , no 80% government funding of people lost their job through virus and also i done self employed last year and cannot qualify for that also cannot qualify for rent to be paid only might get unemployment money that's the only thing i can try to get , this is what makes me angry about uk , they say there is all these things you can claim for, when you try to claim for it YOU CANNOT CLAIM. last time i claimed was over 20 years ago and after waiting 4 weeks not working because you cannot work when signed on , only to be told I had not got enough NI stamps in to qualify , i said WHY DID YOU NOT TELL ME THAT 4 WEEKS AGO ? USELESS AND INCOMPETANT THEY ARE . I swore after that i would never sign on again and I have not until this situation , would love to get a job within 2 days of getting back so I an put 2 fingers up to the government , who give me NOTHING I only go back to work  but hopefully soon I wont need to go back . 

[SOTIRIOS]

...annual bonuses of 12 months....and more...regardless of performance....with no possibility of being dismissed....this organization....and AOT....how long could it last...and what justification....never could figure it out...

[fraggleRock]

9 hours ago, kotsak said:

Amy Winehouse's song Rehab springs in mind.. ????

Shes dead - rehad didnt work....

[Fex Bluse]

8 hours ago, PatOngo said:

The Beatles "I'm a Loser" rings truer! The loss of FACE for the demise of the national carrier into bankruptcy must be enormous! Who can they blame?

They won't blame their cousins who they so look up to, that's for sure. Maybe they can blame the Italian Virus Strain. Or blame "Imported" Management Issues 

[GAZZPA]

9 hours ago, Vigilante said:

Terrible time for any rehabilitation, restructuring or anything of the sort.

Air travel in the dole-drums for the next year or so, no sane investor will be pouring any money in a bloated, bankrupt company

 

Maybe. However if it's done right some clever restructuring could set it up to succeed when the virus lifts and travel returns to some sort of normal in the next year (we all hope). I worked for a large company that very nearly fell over in 2008 after the financial crisis, whilst its shares plummeted the idea was to restructure and very heavily invest to wipe out the competition as the economy recovered, the shareholders stumped up hundreds of millions of dollars behind the plan. It worked brilliantly, the competition was forced out of business and the market share was increased considerably, now the company has gone through a series of acquisitions and is very successful.

 

The problem is it takes very big cohonies. Very tough decisions will have to be made, there is no room for freeloaders or any corruption of course which I guess could be a problem here.

 

1 thing for sure, if the company keeps doing what it's doing then the bailout is just throwing good money after bad and delaying the inevitable demise.

[GAZZPA]

26 minutes ago, hottrader77 said:

As long as thai airways does not go bust until after august im not bothered as I am going back to useless government uk  in july , no job , no 80% government funding of people lost their job through virus and also i done self employed last year and cannot qualify for that also cannot qualify for rent to be paid only might get unemployment money that's the only thing i can try to get , this is what makes me angry about uk , they say there is all these things you can claim for, when you try to claim for it YOU CANNOT CLAIM. last time i claimed was over 20 years ago and after waiting 4 weeks not working because you cannot work when signed on , only to be told I had not got enough NI stamps in to qualify , i said WHY DID YOU NOT TELL ME THAT 4 WEEKS AGO ? USELESS AND INCOMPETANT THEY ARE . I swore after that i would never sign on again and I have not until this situation , would love to get a job within 2 days of getting back so I an put 2 fingers up to the government , who give me NOTHING I only go back to work  but hopefully soon I wont need to go back . 

If you haven't got enough NI stamps that means you haven't paid into the system but now you want to take money out? Does it not make sense to you that if you don't pay in when you are working then its only right you cant take out? Why didn't you make the NI payments whilst you were working overseas? its not a lot of money and it would mean you could get help now and also ensure you get some kind of state pension. If you have so many gaps in your contributions that you couldn't ask fro help then I assume your state pension is knackered as well.  Unlike countries like the USA the UK government does not expect you to pay tax whilst overseas, however if you don't pay the NI then these are the problems you will have. You only really have yourself to blame.

 

 

[GAZZPA]

54 minutes ago, Mung said:

Not Thai airways, but there are a few airline stocks where it would be wise to dump some money into considering their value has crashed. 

Agree, especially the ones who are taking this time out to restructure and plan, they will come out the winners. I haven't studied this but it does make sense

[pineapple01]

Bankruptcy is a vital part of Capitalism. Just as a Virus is part of Nature .  I removes the Weak.

[GAZZPA]

2 hours ago, hotchilli said:

Let it collapse, it's a failed company run by idiots who know nothing about airline structuring or competing in the modern world.

Use the "intended" bail-out money on those who need it more.

Couldn't agree more. Reminds of the bank bailouts in 2008. I read somewhere that the money used to bailout the banks in America and the UK was enough to pay off the entire countries outstanding mortgages. Imagine if a ballsy government had done that? Huge increase in disposable income, the banks have no risk because the mortgages are now paid so they are ok and employment would skyrocket. Instead they use tax payers money to bail out the banks who then subsequently paid enormous bonus payments to senior management for getting bailed out leaving the debt in the tax payers hands. 

 

For Thai Airways it has to be serious restructure or just let it die. It will be a shot in the arm for the competition probably resulting in more jobs being created elswhere. Only the loss of face is an issue as far as I can see. Thailand will be pretty ashamed that it's National carrier is no more. Perhaps China Airways will step in as the replacement.????

[Andrew65]

7 hours ago, bruceprior said:

However it turns out I have a feeling that I should have taken the refund instead of rolling over the ticket until BNE -> BKK comes back to life!!

Crossing my fingers.......

They've stopped flying to Brizzie?

I used to fly that one quite a lot.

[GAZZPA]

3 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

The China merger is maybe the only one that would get the support. China are masterful at buying up foreign countries by putting wads of notes into the pockets of corrupt leaders. China exploits the ordinary people of the country by buying influence at the top. Take Hun Sen for example, or Shri Lanka.  The generals and Hi-Sos will only accept a radical solution to TA, if they can keep their personal revenue streams intact.

China already own half of Thailand, owning the National carrier is no big step. 

[GAZZPA]

3 hours ago, Magenta408 said:

Thai Airways should be euthanized. It was once a good airline and it has been reduced to rubbish, the fault being entirely of its own making. Government should not be bailing out these failed entities. There are far many other priorities. 

Thai airways, like Thailand itself has delusions that it believes itself to be "hi end" quality. The problem is that they are just words spouted by the government that have permeated through society, now everything is becoming expensive and as far as I can see with no real increase in quality/ safety / fairness/ integrity etc. The flights are ludicrously priced so why would you use them? BA is much cheaper then Thai airways and it is a highly profitable carrier nowadays. 

[Andrew65]

1 minute ago, GAZZPA said:

Thai airways, like Thailand itself has delusions that it believes itself to be "hi end" quality. The problem is that they are just words spouted by the government that have permeated through society, now everything is becoming expensive and as far as I can see with no real increase in quality/ safety / fairness/ integrity etc. The flights are ludicrously priced so why would you use them? BA is much cheaper then Thai airways and it is a highly profitable carrier nowadays. 

Eva Air's better than Thai, probably BA also, and fly direct BKK - LHR.

[GAZZPA]

8 hours ago, RandolphGB said:

The only answer is for the airline to be sold to an experienced foreign group. They’d turn it around within a year and it would become profitable. 
 

Of course, that would never happen as it would it would expose the systematic corruption and cronyism rooted in the airline, which no sensible business group would tolerate and immediately set out ending. 
 

Plus, the loss of face would be too much to bear to have foreigners running their national airline.

If they don't squash the corruption and cronyism then it's finished anyway. Time for them to face the situation that they created for themselves.