On death in Thailand - Bank accounts

[Speedo1968]

3 hours ago, LukKrueng said:

I never tried to complete the process of overseas transfers using the online system, but by what I saw you can just prepare the forms and then have to take it to the bank to actually complete the transfer. If that's the way it works it won't help the op. Another point is that as soon as the bank is notified the account owner is dead they have to freeze the accounts

Bit difficult to take the documents to the bank when you are dead, although it could scare them enough to do what you ask rather quickly and without question.

Yes the bank needs to be notified that the account owner is dead.    

[LukKrueng]

7 minutes ago, Speedo1968 said:

Bit difficult to take the documents to the bank when you are dead

I replied to someone who suggested the daughters could do international transfer after the op dies. My point was that this might not be possible. 

[Speedo1968]

18 hours ago, Grumpy one said:

A friend died a couple of years ago, without a will.

Before his wife could get the money from his account she had to go to run around to the UK embassy and wait till it cleared by the local court.

In all it took her about 4 months

I drew up my will years ago, some parts are rather irrelevant now but not worth changing, it gave details of bank accounts in the UK which remain unchanged but, bank accounts here the numbers for those changed ( still same bank ) when I moved from Bangkok.    It was written in English and signed copies already with my daughters in the UK and copies here, however only one witness signed the will.    I own no property here or in the UK. 

Perhaps I should update it and get it done by a solicitor here.    Does it need to be in Thai and English ?  Any suggestions for one in Khon Kaen ?   

[Aussieroaming]

21 hours ago, hotandsticky said:

 

 

Incorrect - the surviving account holder becomes 100% owner.

 

 

Joint account no good for Immigration though

Just a correction for you, a Joint Account is perfectly acceptable for immigration. I only have joint accounts with KBank and have used them at immigration for 8 years now. The only pre-requisite for using a KBank Joint account for Immigration Extensions has been that we have to hold double the nominated savings e.g for retirement we need 1.6M, not 800k. No idea why we need double, but that's the ruling. Also we have 3 different joint accounts and the one we use at immigration is the funds stored in a Fixed Term Deposit Account, but which is also an account that can be accessed immediately if needed. Thats important, as immigration wont accept a Fixed Term Deposit that isnt accessable.

[Speedo1968]

3 hours ago, Kerryd said:

When my father died (in Thailand), he had a Will naming me as the beneficiary (as well as the Executor). 

After the mandatory 45 day waiting period had passed, I was able to go to court and have the Will probated. Took a couple weeks after that to get the official paperwork.

With that, I was able to go to the bank and close out dad's accounts. I think I had my passport with me for ID and a certified copy of his Death Certificate (and a copy of the court Probate order). 
That was all I needed. No birth certificates of any kind. No photocopies or special letters. I don't think I even had a copy of his Will with me (as the Court Probate Order showed me as the heir and Executor).
I think the bank photocopied my passport (like almost every place in the country does) as proof of who closed the accounts.

No hassles of any kind, even with closing his Fixed Term account (where he kept his "Extension" renewal money).

The other option of course is to just give someone access to your account (ATM card and PIN) and let them drain the account(s) until they are empty then throw the card(s) away and forget about the accounts (which would eventually go dormant and be closed automatically after a period of time once the balance hits zero).

Do you mind if I ask if you are Thai ?

My children live in England and I am not sure which would be able to come for funeral etc. one has young children of here own and may not be able to travel.

If there is a 45 day waiting period it would mean one of them coming here for the funeral, if they so wish and either staying another 40 days or so or going back to UK and coming out again just to close bank accounts.  

I understand you last paragraph and my accounts have a large daily withdrawal limit ...

[nickcar]

I was advised by Bangkok Bank that joint accounts would be frozen on the death of one of the account holders. I would be interested if anyone has reason to believe this is incorrect.

[lopburi3]

26 minutes ago, Aussieroaming said:

Just a correction for you, a Joint Account is perfectly acceptable for immigration.

That used to be routine but recently many offices have not accepted joint accounts at all so better make sure first.  As always double the amount would be required as this is a joint property state so only half would be yours in a marriage.

[gamini]

On 5/30/2020 at 5:10 PM, bkk6060 said:

You have a Thai will?

 

Just my opinion, I think it is very irresponsible to make a family member come here from another country to recover death assets.  I know several here who have bank accounts and also own condos, with no will or plan to resolve the assets and distribute funds.  They actually believe their embassy will handle everything for them.

Naive and careless.

Most have no clue and in these cases, probably best to seek legal counsel.

That´s what I would recommend especially if you have what you believe are significant funds/assets based in a foreign country.

 

We are all going to die, so make the proper arrangements for it.

there is an easy way to solve this. Get Internet banking. Give  a trusted friend or relative the bank passwords.  they can that transfer everything to another account which your daughter or friend or whatever can use.

In my case, in the event of my death,, my nephew who lives in the UK,  will transfer everything from my account into my wife's account.

[grumpy 4680]

     It is possible in the Bangkok bank to add a name to an account that in the event of one's death, the other can make withdrawals, Without making it a joint account, 

     The problem with will's, can be the probate laws, which tend to be very slow, and maybe taking a year before access is allowed to that account.

     The Bangkok bank method, makes it far better for a partner or named person to access the account, probably at a time when most needed.

[lopburi3]

6 minutes ago, gamini said:

there is an easy way to solve this. Get Internet banking. Give  a trusted friend or relative the bank passwords.  they can that transfer everything to another account which your daughter or friend or whatever can use.

In my case, in the event of my death,, my nephew who lives in the UK,  will transfer everything from my account into my wife's account.

1.  There are set limits to daily transfers allowed.

2.  If bank freeze account internet is not going to work.

3.  Do you need an SMS for transfer?  Am sure you do to set up a new transfer account.  Will wife have your phone and be able to coordinate?

 

[KaputtAlreadyNa]

I thought that if it is a joint account then only half of the monies can be withdrawn.
Please correct me if I am wrong.

My knowledge is that,  the other person can withdraw everything in join account. 

Warmest 

 

[lopburi3]

1 minute ago, grumpy 4680 said:

The Bangkok bank method, makes it far better for a partner or named person to access the account, probably at a time when most needed.

But is the set policy or one bank manager?  Have not seen anything official and doubt one bank would have different rules than another.  AFAIK there is no pay on death provision for Thai banks.

[grumpy 4680]

16 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

But is the set policy or one bank manager?  Have not seen anything official and doubt one bank would have different rules than another.  AFAIK there is no pay on death provision for Thai banks.

   Lopruri3,  I see no reason why if one bank does as above, the information is documented and filed on their computer, so if the partner uses the same bank, the information will be accepted.

[lopburi3]

2 minutes ago, grumpy 4680 said:

   Lopruri3,  I see no reason why if one bank does as above, the information is documented and filed on their computer, so if the partner uses the same bank, the information will be accepted.

I would love to believe it is acceptable but from all reports I have seen over the decades here have never seen pay on death as being acceptable - only that banks will close account on death and probate process with will or normal survivor process used to divide the money.  Have seen reports of some managers allowing draw-down to known spouse on a don't tell basis so fear this may be an agreement to do that - which might change with a new official.  

[Kerryd]

3 hours ago, Speedo1968 said:

Do you mind if I ask if you are Thai ?

My children live in England and I am not sure which would be able to come for funeral etc. one has young children of here own and may not be able to travel.

If there is a 45 day waiting period it would mean one of them coming here for the funeral, if they so wish and either staying another 40 days or so or going back to UK and coming out again just to close bank accounts.  

I understand you last paragraph and my accounts have a large daily withdrawal limit ...

I'm Canadian (eh) !

Yeah, in my case, after dad died and I did the temple ceremony thing, I had to go back to work (like the day after the part where you sort the ashes into an urn (or two) and take the rest to the ocean to dump).

I came back 3 months later and the lawyer set up the court date for the Probate. They provided a translator as a part of their service for doing the Probate as well.

It seems that you can't (normally) do the probate in less than 45 days after the parting of the deceased, but doing it somewhat later than 45 days isn't an issue. (Depends on how badly your heirs want to get a hold of your stuff I guess.)

Keep in mind, even if you do the Probate exactly 45 days later, it could still take a week or two for the Court to process the paperwork and get it to your lawyer. Then your Executor could start disposing of your assets.
The cost of staying in Thailand for 7-8 weeks maybe be more expensive (for some) than making two trips, especially if one is here with nothing to do but sit around and twiddle their thumbs for 45 days.

Also keep in mind that if your relative(s) want to bring your ashes home, there is additional paperwork that would need to be done before they could transport them.

[armadillo215]

Just like in going to immigration, better to have too much than not enough...

As it relates to certifying anything, I think it wise to certify everything regardless what they tell you...Just my opinion...

[Speedo1968]

4 hours ago, Aussieroaming said:

Just a correction for you, a Joint Account is perfectly acceptable for immigration. I only have joint accounts with KBank and have used them at immigration for 8 years now. The only pre-requisite for using a KBank Joint account for Immigration Extensions has been that we have to hold double the nominated savings e.g for retirement we need 1.6M, not 800k. No idea why we need double, but that's the ruling. Also we have 3 different joint accounts and the one we use at immigration is the funds stored in a Fixed Term Deposit Account, but which is also an account that can be accessed immediately if needed. Thats important, as immigration wont accept a Fixed Term Deposit that isnt accessable.

Thanks for that, especially the point about doubling the deposit.
I live alone in Thailand so have no partner here.

The increased funds for a visa using a joint account is possible but not ideal for me.

I have a Thai friend that I have known for 20 years and trust with my life but they are, for whatever reason, not keen to have a joint account or "withdraw" money from my accounts.
The joint accounts I was thinking of would be with one of my daughters who live in the UK and, that they would only come here on my death for the funeral and to close the accounts.    The difficulty is is that one has family and the others work could make it difficult to leave the UK at short notice.  

My will already passes my UK monies to my daughters.

Will ask at KBank in Khon Kaen this week for something in writing and more precise regarding joint accounts or allowing a daughter to close the accounts,

[Speedo1968]

4 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

That used to be routine but recently many offices have not accepted joint accounts at all so better make sure first.  As always double the amount would be required as this is a joint property state so only half would be yours in a marriage.

Thanks for that lopburi.

What happens if you are not married, where does the other half go to ?
Anyone any idea what Khon Kaen office requires / allows ?

[Speedo1968]

1 hour ago, Kerryd said:

I'm Canadian (eh) !

Yeah, in my case, after dad died and I did the temple ceremony thing, I had to go back to work (like the day after the part where you sort the ashes into an urn (or two) and take the rest to the ocean to dump).

I came back 3 months later and the lawyer set up the court date for the Probate. They provided a translator as a part of their service for doing the Probate as well.

It seems that you can't (normally) do the probate in less than 45 days after the parting of the deceased, but doing it somewhat later than 45 days isn't an issue. (Depends on how badly your heirs want to get a hold of your stuff I guess.)

Keep in mind, even if you do the Probate exactly 45 days later, it could still take a week or two for the Court to process the paperwork and get it to your lawyer. Then your Executor could start disposing of your assets.
The cost of staying in Thailand for 7-8 weeks maybe be more expensive (for some) than making two trips, especially if one is here with nothing to do but sit around and twiddle their thumbs for 45 days.

Also keep in mind that if your relative(s) want to bring your ashes home, there is additional paperwork that would need to be done before they could transport them.

Thanks for all your comments.
I had read somewhere that taking some of the ashes back to the UK was a fairly simple procedure.

[TigerandDog]

to the best of my knowledge you must have a Thai will stipulating what happens with your Thai estate, so nominate those people as executors of your estate in the will. My village head advises me that if you do not have a Thai will, then most likely the govt can claim your estate and distribute as they see fit. I don't know if that is correct or not. It appears that you do not have a Thai will so the first thing you should be doing is going through that process as it will eliminate practically all the problems that will otherwise be encountered.  Also I asked my bank manager about whether it was possible for a farang living here to open a joint account with a relative who lives overseas and the answer was unequivocally NO.

Edited June 1, 2020 by TigerandDog
additional information

[lopburi3]

9 minutes ago, Speedo1968 said:

What happens if you are not married, where does the other half go to ?

If no blood relatives expect state will keep - if children split between them.  That is why a will is needed for more than simple wife only relative death.

https://www.samuiforsale.com/law-texts/thailand-inheritance-laws.html

[Aussieroaming]

6 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

That used to be routine but recently many offices have not accepted joint accounts at all so better make sure first.  As always double the amount would be required as this is a joint property state so only half would be yours in a marriage.

Its been accepted up to this time, I would love to make sure given my yearly extension is due in 2 weeks. Fat chance though still being locked out of the country and my home. 

[keithathome]

On 5/30/2020 at 5:22 PM, Speedo1968 said:

Yes, I have a will that indicates bank accounts in England and Thailand, my assets are not large neither do i own a house / condo etc. in Thailand or England.

The money belongs to my daughters and I solely wish to ensure that monies in my Thai accounts go to them and not disappear in to the banks coffers

Take a photo of the front page of your bank books and enclose them with your will and name your beneficiaries.

[rickudon]

It is not just us foreigners who have a problem. My wife's Uncle and Aunt died 2-3 years ago, and their children haven't been able to get the money from the bank yet.  They have been asked for birth certificates of the deceased (what's the likelihood of a 80 year old paper document still being around in rural Thailand), and cannot be found in the local records. Marriage certificate (but just Buddhist marriage so none).

 

Now being asked for NINE character witnesses who knew the parents and the children who will be called by the Amphoe to come and swear to the relationship (The Amphoe hasn't called anyone after months). Is it surprising that the Thai answer is loot the account via an ATM and forget the pennies.

 

I suspect that few Thais have all the documents required to allow simple probate. Inheritance law in Thailand needs modernising and a publicity campaign to get Thais to be ready for it.

[Speedo1968]

19 hours ago, Kerryd said:

I'm Canadian (eh) !

Yeah, in my case, after dad died and I did the temple ceremony thing, I had to go back to work (like the day after the part where you sort the ashes into an urn (or two) and take the rest to the ocean to dump).

I came back 3 months later and the lawyer set up the court date for the Probate. They provided a translator as a part of their service for doing the Probate as well.

It seems that you can't (normally) do the probate in less than 45 days after the parting of the deceased, but doing it somewhat later than 45 days isn't an issue. (Depends on how badly your heirs want to get a hold of your stuff I guess.)

Keep in mind, even if you do the Probate exactly 45 days later, it could still take a week or two for the Court to process the paperwork and get it to your lawyer. Then your Executor could start disposing of your assets.
The cost of staying in Thailand for 7-8 weeks maybe be more expensive (for some) than making two trips, especially if one is here with nothing to do but sit around and twiddle their thumbs for 45 days.

Also keep in mind that if your relative(s) want to bring your ashes home, there is additional paperwork that would need to be done before they could transport them.

Thanks for your comments and information.

I wrote my own will years ago and it includes UK bank accounts.

 

Obviously from what I have been told about Thai bank accounts I will need a separate document to make things more easy here.      Unless someone on my behalf takes alternative action.

I own no property ( house / condo ) here in Thailand or elsewhere.  

Any personal goods I have are here in Thailand in my rented house and, there is already agreement between the parties ( 3 ) concerned as to what should happen to the items.

 

Do I still need to do probate if my will only relates to bank accounts here, again there is agreement between parties ( 3 ) ?

 

[lopburi3]

7 minutes ago, rickudon said:

(what's the likelihood of a 80 year old paper document still being around in rural Thailand),

Actually quite good as this document is second only to ID card in importance.  And there should be a government record also available.  In some cases both will indeed go amiss (vermin/fires and such) but with a proper lawyer alternative documents can be obtained (been there and done that and it does not take years normally).  The above also seems to have legality issues with children born out of wedlock so expect the combined issues are the cause of the extra long delay.  The law is actually quite simple if normal documents are available.  But take your point that for some drain of account a normal option.

[Speedo1968]

22 hours ago, gamini said:

there is an easy way to solve this. Get Internet banking. Give  a trusted friend or relative the bank passwords.  they can that transfer everything to another account which your daughter or friend or whatever can use.

In my case, in the event of my death,, my nephew who lives in the UK,  will transfer everything from my account into my wife's account.

Thanks gamini an interesting idea.   Will keep it in mind.

I have a trusted friend of 20 years whom I have asked to withdraw funds however they are not at this moment in time comfortable with the idea.     Asking them to use internet banking is even more scary for them.

[Speedo1968]

18 hours ago, TigerandDog said:

to the best of my knowledge you must have a Thai will stipulating what happens with your Thai estate, so nominate those people as executors of your estate in the will. My village head advises me that if you do not have a Thai will, then most likely the govt can claim your estate and distribute as they see fit. I don't know if that is correct or not. It appears that you do not have a Thai will so the first thing you should be doing is going through that process as it will eliminate practically all the problems that will otherwise be encountered.  Also I asked my bank manager about whether it was possible for a farang living here to open a joint account with a relative who lives overseas and the answer was unequivocally NO.

Thanks for your reply TigerandDog.
I note your points about not allowing a relative who lives overseas being a joint account holder.

If I can find a solicitor in Khon Kaen I will draw up a new will solely for my Thai bank accounts.    Other personal property is already sorted.

[Kerryd]

9 minutes ago, Speedo1968 said:

Do I still need to do probate if my will only relates to bank accounts here, again there is agreement between parties ( 3 ) ?

Yes. Because the courts don't know if you have other relatives who may want to stake a claim to your estate as well as any possible creditors.

I think that's why the 45 day period is there. When I did dad's Will in Canada, even though he'd been dead for months at that point, there was still a mandatory period between when I started the process (with the lawyer) and the date she could take it to court. I believe that is the same reason, for notification of death to be sent out and then time for relatives/creditors (if any) to step forth and make a claim.

Otherwise dear old dad could die one day, his Executor could probate the Will the next day and make off with the assets before the banks and brothers/sisters/sons/daughters/(etc etc) even knew he'd died !

But to get around that, you could do as has been recommended earlier, with ATM card. Internet banking is tricky as they log the IP addresses so if someone were to transfer your money to someone else via internet banking, it could be traced (if anyone were to bother that is). That would only be an issue if there was a dispute over your assets.

Keep in mind that some transactions require you to be there in person. Like taking money out of a Fixed Term account or doing Wire Transfers overseas. I have money in a Foreign Currency Deposit (FCD) account that only I can access and even though the account shows up on my internet banking site, I can't do anything except look at the balance. Anything else requires me (and my passport) to go to the bank in person.
 

[Speedo1968]

18 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

If no blood relatives expect state will keep - if children split between them.  That is why a will is needed for more than simple wife only relative death.

https://www.samuiforsale.com/law-texts/thailand-inheritance-laws.html

I have blood relatives in the UK.

I am not married to a Thai.

All personal belongings at the property I rent here have already been agreed and sorted.    The property will continue to be rented until such time as any relatives from UK has returned to their home / s.

I made a will many years ago and all aspects of it have already been agreed by those concerned in UK and Thailand.

What it seems I need now is a Thai will ( with English translation ) for the Thai bank accounts, unless alternative action is made.
Now I need to find a solicitor in Khon Kaen.