Trump orders big U.S. troop cut in Germany, official says

[hugocnx]

3 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Grossly wrong. 
https://m.dw.com/en/germany-to-match-us-contribution-to-nato-budget/a-51446211

"From 2021, Germany will increase its contribution to the NATO budget to be in line with what the US pays. NATO officials hope the move will diffuse tensions surrounding the cost of maintaining the military alliance."

I am not so grossly wrong as you maybe. It's supposed to happen from 2021 (31 december?). Will increase contribution yes but in steps. How many steps and over how many years. C'mon man, you believe all this? DW, made for minds, rai saa raa.

Edited June 8, 2020 by hugocnx

[micmichd]

1 hour ago, Dap said:

Yeah! Good call.

But the military industrial complex would remain. 

[micmichd]

31 minutes ago, Logosone said:

Not at all, they invaded Germany after 1918 when Germany was in the throes of revolution and defeated in WW1. The Poles used the turmoil to annex German territories. This of course was a major cause of WW2.

 

Before that too Poles and Germans were constantly at war ever since the Poles invited the Teutonic Knights in to do what the Poles could not and defeat the Prus, then welched on the reward when the Teutonic Knights got the job done. That's how Prussians got the name, btw, by defeating the Prus for Poland.

 

Of course things have changed a little since then. We built motor ways for the Poles. We generally subsidized their backward economy and dragged it out of the 3rd world to the 1st world. However, one thing hasn't changed. The Poles still hate Germans.

YOU did? The EU used your money, you mean. 

And now the EU is bankrupt. 

[metisdead]

A post with a link to an unapproved YouTube source has been removed.

 

A post containing a graph copy and pasted from some site with no supporting link and the replies have been removed.

 

Some troll posts have been removed. 

[sawadee1947]

2 hours ago, micmichd said:

Trump is only talking about human resources anyway, not about technical equipment. 

Exactly. Who do you think will fly the Drones? Monkeys?

[IAMHERE]

Those troops were not going to win WW3 or prevent the Russians from invading Europe. Those troops were cannon fodder so that the Mass Media can DEMAND that America once more go to Europe to fight a land war for revenge. Gaining America nothing but tax dollars and blood of its patriots.

[micmichd]

1 hour ago, sawadee1947 said:

Exactly. Who do you think will fly the Drones? Monkeys?

Hopefully I don't reveal military secrets if I tell you that drones are unmanned vehicles. 

[stevenl]

48 minutes ago, micmichd said:

Hopefully I don't reveal military secrets if I tell you that drones are unmanned vehicles. 

But still being flown by military.

[sawadee1947]

3 hours ago, micmichd said:

Hopefully I don't reveal military secrets if I tell you that drones are unmanned vehicles. 

And of course they start and find their way by themselves? You're funny not to choose a more suitable word. You're a real laughing stock. ????????????????????????????????????????????????????

[geriatrickid]

12 hours ago, digger70 said:

I agree , there's no need for the US to have Any troops in any country except their own. 

If a country want's to start a war a few troops won't stop that . 

The US can Deploy troops within a Few HRS.

Anyway if the war country want's to be Real smart than they can Send a few Nukes and there are no troops that can stop them.

How do you propose that the US defend its trade and political interests?  Dropping nuclear  bombs on  people isn't a viable response because of the long term damage that  nuclear  munitions cause. Are you immune to the impact of radioactive fallout?

[geriatrickid]

5 hours ago, IAMHERE said:

Those troops were not going to win WW3 or prevent the Russians from invading Europe. Those troops were cannon fodder so that the Mass Media can DEMAND that America once more go to Europe to fight a land war for revenge. Gaining America nothing but tax dollars and blood of its patriots.

The US did not go to  Europe for revenge. The USA was a target for the Axis powers. At the time the USA was dependent upon foreign resource imports and they had stopped. German U boats were sinking US  merchant vessels in US waters and had landed   saboteurs who were actively sabotaging US industry and inciting unrest.  Japan attacked the USA because the USA had acted to curtail Japan's own expansion and resource theft, competing against the USA. Japan was part of the Axis. There could be no victory against Japan until the European conflict was settled.

The USA entered its most profitable period  following WWII as it took advantage of the rebuilding efforts and the power vacuum in the world. As bad as the financial and human losses were, the USA was  the quickest to recover and to gain from its wartime activity.

[daveAustin]

17 hours ago, Boon Mee said:

Bailed the Euros out of two world wars. Enough is enough. 

MAGA 

Lol, you still here? More, coming in for the glory strokes after the fighting's done. Where were you lot during the Battle of Britain? Britain stood alone as it always has done and as it did when backing Poland while you lot were biding your time eating pancakes. The Manhattan Project/moon landings were non-starters without British/German input etc etc. Your schoolbook history Stateside is coloured indeed, much like that of Thailand's.

 

As an off-topic aside, UK protects ole neutral Ireland (two-way street to see who's coming over Atlantic of course), frequently scrambling jets to see off the Ruskies as they don't have an air force and of course don't need one with who's next door. Not many Irish know this. Similarly, when Scotland goes independent, they also won't need to invest militarily.

 

As for two-way streets, Boon Mee, US is not still in Europe out of the goodness of its heart; they are there to ultimately protect their own assets and homeland. However, never mind, still reckon the US is generally a force for the good and we could all be done for if they wanted. And, yes, this is all about nobby head snubbing Merkel at the end of the day - not that she or ordinary Germans would care - but lets all stay friends since the real issue is Russia/China.

[pacovl46]

Great! Now take the rest, too. We don’t need them/want them there anyway! 

[Redline]

20 hours ago, meechai said:

Oh Puleeze

 

This is a good move & this type of draw down should continue at many of the USA's military bases worldwide

 

Military budget has been insane for decades & needs to be reduced.

If countries like Germany feel threatened <sic> by Russia then they can hire or increase their security as they feel needs to be

................ON THEIR DIME !!

 

For this Democrat to try & turn this into a claim of a  "huge gift" for Russia is pure Political BS

 

 

 

18 hours ago, meechai said:

 

Fear mongering plain and simple

 

You think Russia or China in this day & age would attack a sovereign country? You really think Russia wants to invade Europe?

 

Too much TV ...step back...This is not the same world Churchill, Eisenhower or others from the Military Industrial Complex were from

 

PS: Elections never left the Republic of the United States of America & the USA is not a Democracy but a Constitutional Republic thank you very much

America is dying-now weak, confused and dropped out-can no longer be trusted-too bad too sad-Trump has destroyed goodwill and integrity 

[GinBoy2]

1 hour ago, daveAustin said:

Lol, you still here? More, coming in for the glory strokes after the fighting's done. Where were you lot during the Battle of Britain? Britain stood alone as it always has done and as it did when backing Poland while you lot were biding your time eating pancakes. The Manhattan Project/moon landings were non-starters without British/German input etc etc. Your schoolbook history Stateside is coloured indeed, much like that of Thailand's.

 

As an off-topic aside, UK protects ole neutral Ireland (two-way street to see who's coming over Atlantic of course), frequently scrambling jets to see off the Ruskies as they don't have an air force and of course don't need one with who's next door. Not many Irish know this. Similarly, when Scotland goes independent, they also won't need to invest militarily.

 

As for two-way streets, Boon Mee, US is not still in Europe out of the goodness of its heart; they are there to ultimately protect their own assets and homeland. However, never mind, still reckon the US is generally a force for the good and we could all be done for if they wanted. And, yes, this is all about nobby head snubbing Merkel at the end of the day - not that she or ordinary Germans would care - but lets all stay friends since the real issue is Russia/China.

Hold on a second.

 

Yes the US didn't join the second world war until Peal Harbor and Germany's declaration of War.

 

In Roosevelts defense however, he was fighting intense opposition from the domestic population for any involvement in Europe, but even so lend/lease provided a lifeline to the UK, as well as US food shipments, which if hadn't happened would have starved Britain out of the war, which by the way he also did under intense opposition from Congress.

 

As for the Manhattan project there were a total of 19 British scientists that participated out of thousands, and let's not forget what Fuchs brought to that party!

 

So fast forward to the aftermath.

 

Britain, most of Europe was in tatters and bankrupt, it was only the intensely generous Marshall Plan that rebuilt Europe. And I know from British friends there is a myth that the UK received next to nothing. In fact it was the largest recipient of the fund!

 

As for today. Europe is a strong a rich region, well capable and able to afford its own defense. And by the way, didn't the UK withdraw nearly all their forces from Germany? I think they have something like 200 essentially admin folks left there!

 

There is a lot to blame Trump for, and I for one totally oppose what he's doing in Asia threatening to withdraw troops in South Korea which has a clear threat from the North. But Europe? Nah, I kinda with him on that one

Edited June 8, 2020 by GinBoy2

[simple1]

3 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

As for the Manhattan project there were a total of 19 British scientists that participated out of thousands, and let's not forget what Fuchs brought to that party!

As a matter of detail Churchill handed over UK research IP for development of nuclear weapons, radar and so on at no cost to the US which at the time was far behind in developing similar technologies. The British handover of IP was a major benefit to the US for accelerating it's war fighting capabilities.

 

There are a number of books covering the above in details, as an example...

 

https://www.amazon.com/Churchills-Bomb-Overtook-Britain-Nuclear/dp/0465021956

Edited June 8, 2020 by simple1

[meechai]

6 hours ago, Redline said:

 

America is dying-now weak, confused and dropped out-can no longer be trusted-too bad too sad-Trump has destroyed goodwill and integrity 

So you quote me regarding budget etc then say this?

 

Hey well I guess we agree because if you think America is weak or dying you don't need our military in Germany & you would much rather have a strong healthy body guard ....

So like many things these days consider your safety a get it your dang self service option ;)

 

No worries on the good will integrity it will as always still be there should you need help

Edited June 9, 2020 by meechai

[micmichd]

12 hours ago, stevenl said:

But still being flown by military.

Remote-controlled from Nevada. Ramstein Air Base in Germany is only a relais station. 

[digger70]

9 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

How do you propose that the US defend its trade and political interests?  Dropping nuclear  bombs on  people isn't a viable response because of the long term damage that  nuclear  munitions cause. Are you immune to the impact of radioactive fallout?

The US can defend their Trade and Political interest with Negotiations no need to have Troops in the country to Persuade  them. Haven troops for that in an Other country is plain invasive . DT is doing the right thing . If negotiations Don't work than forget about them. 

I didn't say for DT to drop Nukes, I said 

If the war country want's to be Real smart than they can Send a few Nukes and there are no troops that can stop them.        Meaning Not the US But the other Country.

[simple1]

6 minutes ago, digger70 said:

The US can defend their Trade and Political interest with Negotiations no need to have Troops in the country to Persuade  them. Haven troops for that in an Other country is plain invasive . DT is doing the right thing . If negotiations Don't work than forget about them. 

I didn't say for DT to drop Nukes, I said 

If the war country want's to be Real smart than they can Send a few Nukes and there are no troops that can stop them.        Meaning Not the US But the other Country.

US is a member of NATO. it is contrary to NATO membership for trump to unilaterally declare withdrawal of forces. The decision comes across as yet another act of spite against any one who critiques trump. The only party to benefit from trump's foolishness is Russia.

[micmichd]

12 minutes ago, simple1 said:

US is a member of NATO. it is contrary to NATO membership for trump to unilaterally declare withdrawal of forces. The decision comes across as yet another act of spite against any one who critiques trump. The only party to benefit from trump's foolishness is Russia.

The NATO is a hoax. With all these East European countries far far away from the Atlantic Ocean. I'm quite sure that Donald Trump doesn't care about NATO's fate at all. 

[Eric Loh]

3 minutes ago, micmichd said:

The NATO is a hoax. With all these East European countries far far away from the Atlantic Ocean. I'm quite sure that Donald Trump doesn't care about NATO's fate at all. 

Maybe he does to protect his European resorts. 

[micmichd]

4 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Maybe he does to protect his European resorts. 

Does he have any resorts in Europe? 

I guess he regards the EU rather as a competitor than anything else. 

[rvaviator]

11 hours ago, sawadee1947 said:

And of course they start and find their way by themselves? You're funny not to choose a more suitable word. You're a real laughing stock. ????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I thought US drones around the world are flown from command centers in the US ....

[simple1]

15 minutes ago, rvaviator said:

I thought US drones around the world are flown from command centers in the US ....

Plenty outside of the US. A list below, some would have been closed, some new ones with locations kept secret...

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_drone_bases

 

 

[digger70]

3 hours ago, simple1 said:

US is a member of NATO. it is contrary to NATO membership for trump to unilaterally declare withdrawal of forces. The decision comes across as yet another act of spite against any one who critiques trump. The only party to benefit from trump's foolishness is Russia.

DT doesn't care much for the Nato ,They're using the US for more Power. I sure hope DT takes his troops out of there They're the ones losing out the US is gaining more troops for their own protection.

[micmichd]

7 minutes ago, digger70 said:

DT doesn't care much for the Nato ,They're using the US for more Power. I sure hope DT takes his troops out of there They're the ones losing out the US is gaining more troops for their own protection.

Although I doubt anyone would dare to attack the USA, you're right. The Germans don't deserve to be protected by the USA, they don't like American military anyway. 

[simple1]

55 minutes ago, digger70 said:

DT doesn't care much for the Nato ,They're using the US for more Power. I sure hope DT takes his troops out of there They're the ones losing out the US is gaining more troops for their own protection.

trump is making a strategic error if he continues down the path of isolationism. Isolationism is mirrored in the ideology he allegedly subscribes; paleo conservatism.

[digger70]

3 hours ago, simple1 said:

trump is making a strategic error if he continues down the path of isolationism. Isolationism is mirrored in the ideology he allegedly subscribes; paleo conservatism.

That's just You're opinion,Leave some room for someone else's opinion OK. 

By the way you got a way with words ,Australian / English isn't my native tongue, it took a bit to sort it .

one could always use Plain English for us normal people.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 6/9/2020 at 7:51 AM, Redline said:

 

America is dying-now weak, confused and dropped out-can no longer be trusted-too bad too sad-Trump has destroyed goodwill and integrity 

It's a long stretch to blame Trump for the ills of the US when they started long ago. As for trust, the US lost that when they ran away from Vietnam and abandoned those that had fought for them to the re education camps or death.