Biden says military would help oust Trump if he loses election but refuses to leave

[johnpetersen]

16 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I fail to see why anyone should have to have special ID to vote, but surely anyone in the US can get a driver's license or suchlike, and that should be acceptable for voting.

Do you have any reliable evidence to prove that legal age citizens are being deprived of the right to get suitable ID?

Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html

[johnpetersen]

18 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Voting is a right ONLY FOR THOSE LEGALLY ALLOWED TO VOTE. Ergo, one should have to prove they are legally allowed to vote.

It's obvious to me that there is an agenda to allow voting by those not entitled to do so, and we all ( probably ) know what that agenda is.

Do you need a license to shopping? After all, shoplifting is a crime.

[Mama Noodle]

15 minutes ago, johnpetersen said:

Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly.

 

Weird how nobody else on planet earth has an issue with getting and maintaining a legitimate ID for themselves and using it to vote, yet mention the United States and all of a sudden - racism. 

[johnpetersen]

2 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

Weird how nobody else on planet earth has an issue with getting and maintaining a legitimate ID for themselves and using it to vote, yet mention the United States and all of a sudden - racism. 

Nobody else on planet earth? Really? Tell that to hill tribes people in Thailand. And you think that's the only other place on the planet where it's a problem?

[Mama Noodle]

2 minutes ago, johnpetersen said:

Tell that to hill tribes people in Thailand.

 

Is that racist voter suppression too?

[johnpetersen]

2 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

Is that racist voter suppression too?

Among other things, yes.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, johnpetersen said:

Among other things, yes.

They can't vote because the Thais don't recognise them as citizens.

Anyway, I thought only white people can be racist.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, checkered flag said:

Are you in Thailand? If not why do you troll Thai sites. If you are, look around and almost all Thais have government IDs. The IDs are needed for almost everything. What's the problem in the US, except illegals could then vote.

Some governments require all citizens to have a government issued ID.  The US isn't one of those governments.  Requirements to vote are left to the states, some of which have a history of voter suppression.  Allowing states to decide if and how to implement voter ID requirement would give them another tool to suppress votes.

 

Illegals don't vote in the US.  Why would they?  They have nothing to gain and much to lose.  There is no evidence of significant voter fraud in the US.  Voter ID requirements  would "solve" a nonexistent problem and be another tool to restrict voting.

 

I'm curious; how many people who think voters should be required to have a government issued voter ID also thing gun owners should be required to have a government issued gun owner ID?

[heybruce]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Still won't answer the question. It's pretty simple- is voting AT LEAST as important as having to have a license to drive a car?

You persist with an idiotic question.  I'm sure some people think voting is more important that having a drivers license, others would think the opposite.  Fortunately since one thing has nothing to do with the other, it is irrelevant.

[heybruce]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I fail to see why anyone should have to have special ID to vote, but surely anyone in the US can get a driver's license or suchlike, and that should be acceptable for voting.

Do you have any reliable evidence to prove that legal age citizens are being deprived of the right to get suitable ID?

As johnpeterson's link shows, there is evidence that getting a suitable ID can be made onerous for many, and almost impossible for others: 

 

In 2012, a federal court in Washington concluded that the burden of obtaining a state voter-ID certificate would weigh disproportionately on minorities living in poverty, with many having to travel as much as 200 to 250 miles round trip.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html

 

Do you have any evidence of voting fraud or other election fraud issues in the US that would be solved by requiring a voter ID?

[thaibeachlovers]

5 minutes ago, heybruce said:

You persist with an idiotic question.  I'm sure some people think voting is more important that having a drivers license, others would think the opposite.  Fortunately since one thing has nothing to do with the other, it is irrelevant.

No more idiotic than what you come out with. Why don't you either just answer the question instead of deflecting or ignore it?

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, heybruce said:

Do you have any evidence of voting fraud or other election fraud issues in the US that would be solved by requiring a voter ID?

That's so obvious I won't even answer it.

 

Anyway this is all waaaaayyyyy off topic.

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

No more idiotic than what you come out with. Why don't you either just answer the question instead of deflecting or ignore it?

I answered it.  If you can't understand a simple answer, that is your problem.

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That's so obvious I won't even answer it.

 

Anyway this is all waaaaayyyyy off topic.

In other words, you have no evidence of voter fraud.

 

BTW, my post was no more off-topic than your question "Do you have any reliable evidence to prove that legal age citizens are being deprived of the right to get suitable ID?".  I answered your question, you have no answer for mine.

[checkered flag]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

I answered it.  If you can't understand a simple answer, that is your problem.

ID are easy to get if you are legit and are not asking for much.

 

I suppose that if you go to court, you can simply show them a receipt from your grocery store etc to establish your identity. Also to cash your welfare check, or get phone service. Get a life an ID is needed to live a normal life. Local governments could easily establish ways for the few who can't get an ID, but I suspect people without IDs might be hiding from something.

 

BTW is Heybruce a derivative of the Thai greeting "Hey you falong". Haven't heard that in decades.

 

[metisdead]

Some off topic posts and replies have been removed. 

[heybruce]

11 hours ago, johnpetersen said:

Getting a photo ID so you can vote is easy. Unless you’re poor, black, Latino or elderly.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html

 

7 hours ago, heybruce said:

As johnpeterson's link shows, there is evidence that getting a suitable ID can be made onerous for many, and almost impossible for others: 

 

In 2012, a federal court in Washington concluded that the burden of obtaining a state voter-ID certificate would weigh disproportionately on minorities living in poverty, with many having to travel as much as 200 to 250 miles round trip.  https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/getting-a-photo-id-so-you-can-vote-is-easy-unless-youre-poor-black-latino-or-elderly/2016/05/23/8d5474ec-20f0-11e6-8690-f14ca9de2972_story.html

 

Do you have any evidence of voting fraud or other election fraud issues in the US that would be solved by requiring a voter ID?

 

On 6/24/2020 at 12:59 PM, heybruce said:

I'll ignore the long opinion ramble.

 

"Vote fraud does happen, to varying degrees, all over the World. Why leave yourself/your country open to it, when you can prevent a lot of it already, by simply demanding ID?"

 

As I have explained repeatedly, there is no evidence of significant voter fraud in the US, and little evidence of insignificant voter fraud.  Many states in the US have a long history of voter suppression, and many of the states implementing onerous voter ID requirements have such a history.

 

So voter ID solves a nonexistent problem, and gives states with a history of voter suppression a powerful tool for additional voter suppression.  Do you see the problem with that?

 

1 hour ago, checkered flag said:

ID are easy to get if you are legit and are not asking for much.

 

I suppose that if you go to court, you can simply show them a receipt from your grocery store etc to establish your identity. Also to cash your welfare check, or get phone service. Get a life an ID is needed to live a normal life. Local governments could easily establish ways for the few who can't get an ID, but I suspect people without IDs might be hiding from something.

 

BTW is Heybruce a derivative of the Thai greeting "Hey you falong". Haven't heard that in decades.

 

The circular reasoning of the willfully ignorant; after an argument and its derivatives have been thoroughly discredited, you go back to the original argument.

 

I've provided a few of the posts that have addressed the standard BS about ID's not being any big deal.  I'll also remind you that not any ID will work, each state gets to decide what kind of ID is required for voting, and some of the states are not making suitable ID's easy to obtain. 

 

Try to get your head around these facts:  There is scant evidence of voter fraud, and no evidence that ID's will prevent voter fraud.  There is ample evidence that ID's suppress votes, and an ugly history of voter suppression in some of the states that use ID's.  Got it?

Edited June 26, 2020 by heybruce

[Crazy Alex]

3 hours ago, heybruce said:

Try to get your head around these facts:  There is scant evidence of voter fraud, and no evidence that ID's will prevent voter fraud.  There is ample evidence that ID's suppress votes, and an ugly history of voter suppression in some of the states that use ID's.  Got it?

Yes, we're aware that many Democrats think blacks are too dumb to get an ID. But maybe you're on to something with the whole ID thing. There's no evidence that requiring ID prevents underage drinking. Liquor stores should stop asking for it. There's no evidence requiring ID to cash a check reduced check fraud. No ID should be required.

 

As for "scant evidence" of voter fraud, Newsweek having an article on the five most rigged presidential elections says otherwise.

 

https://www.newsweek.com/top-five-rigged-us-presidential-elections-511765

 

Then of course there's the everyday Googling one can do to have fun with debunking your "scant evidence" claim:

 

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/oakland-county/2019/09/23/southfield-city-clerk-charged-six-felonies-november-2018-election/2416101001/

 

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/letter-carrier-attempted-election-fraud-by-changing-mail-in-forms-from-democrat-to-republican-doj-says/

 

But yeah, I'm sure this woman who got five years in prison for illegal voting is the only person to do so:

 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/10/us/texas-woman-ineligible-voting-appeal/index.html

 

Funny stuff. Please keep posting about it.

[johnpetersen]

1 hour ago, Crazy Alex said:

Yes, we're aware that many Democrats think blacks are too dumb to get an ID. But maybe you're on to something with the whole ID thing. There's no evidence that requiring ID prevents underage drinking. Liquor stores should stop asking for it. There's no evidence requiring ID to cash a check reduced check fraud. No ID should be required.

 

As for "scant evidence" of voter fraud, Newsweek having an article on the five most rigged presidential elections says otherwise.

 

https://www.newsweek.com/top-five-rigged-us-presidential-elections-511765

 

Then of course there's the everyday Googling one can do to have fun with debunking your "scant evidence" claim:

 

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/oakland-county/2019/09/23/southfield-city-clerk-charged-six-felonies-november-2018-election/2416101001/

 

1 hour ago, Crazy Alex said:

 

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/letter-carrier-attempted-election-fraud-by-changing-mail-in-forms-from-democrat-to-republican-doj-says/

 

But yeah, I'm sure this woman who got five years in prison for illegal voting is the only person to do so:

 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/10/us/texas-woman-ineligible-voting-appeal/index.html

 

Funny stuff. Please keep posting about it.

The newsweek article is ridiculous. 4 of the cases are ancient history. The latest one being the Kennedy Nixon race. ANd the fifth one, the Gore-Bush election was not a case of voter fraud.

 

In the second example, it was about ballot fraud by a government official. NOt about voter ID fraud. And the security measures worked!

 

In the 3rd case there was no ballot fraud. Rather a postal service carrier put in a request for ballots for the republican primary to be sent to democrats. Again not a case of voter ID fraud.

 

And the fourth case was of a woman, an ex-convict, who was under supervision and said she didn't know she was ineligible to vote. How would an ID card have changed this case? It wouldn' have.

 

 

 

 

[heybruce]

4 hours ago, Crazy Alex said:

Yes, we're aware that many Democrats think blacks are too dumb to get an ID. But maybe you're on to something with the whole ID thing. There's no evidence that requiring ID prevents underage drinking. Liquor stores should stop asking for it. There's no evidence requiring ID to cash a check reduced check fraud. No ID should be required.

 

As for "scant evidence" of voter fraud, Newsweek having an article on the five most rigged presidential elections says otherwise.

 

https://www.newsweek.com/top-five-rigged-us-presidential-elections-511765

 

Then of course there's the everyday Googling one can do to have fun with debunking your "scant evidence" claim:

 

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/oakland-county/2019/09/23/southfield-city-clerk-charged-six-felonies-november-2018-election/2416101001/

 

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/letter-carrier-attempted-election-fraud-by-changing-mail-in-forms-from-democrat-to-republican-doj-says/

 

But yeah, I'm sure this woman who got five years in prison for illegal voting is the only person to do so:

 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/10/us/texas-woman-ineligible-voting-appeal/index.html

 

Funny stuff. Please keep posting about it.

You clearly think that if you post a lot of irrelevant links that readers will think you have proof of something.  johnpeterson has shown that is not true.

 

I will address the nonsense of your first paragraph.  No, Democrats don't think blacks are too dumb to get an ID.  What a bigoted thing to post.  Regarding the rest of your nonsense, there is plenty of evidence of underage drinking and check fraud.  Ask clerks responsible for checking ID's and they will tell you that many kids and suspicious checks are rejected.  Many suspect customers turn away when asked for an ID.

 

Now why don't you provide evidence of the type of voter fraud that voter ID's will prevent?

[Jingthing]

The republicans best (and perhaps only) hope.

People not voting.

The democratic party is well named in this instance. They actually want people to vote. The republicans only want a certain kind of person to vote.

No wonder the USA's rating as a democracy has slipped significantly. 

[torturedsole]

40 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The republicans only want a certain kind of person to vote.

Quality voters make a big difference.  Emotional voters spell trouble.  

[candide]

8 hours ago, Crazy Alex said:

As for "scant evidence" of voter fraud, Newsweek having an article on the five most rigged presidential elections says otherwise.

 

https://www.newsweek.com/top-five-rigged-us-presidential-elections-511765

Lol! The article, by Fred Lucas, first published in the Daily Signal (funded by the Heritage Foundation), which accuses Gore of rigging elections in Florida! ????

BTW, you forgot the article about the guy who registred his dog.

[Crazy Alex]

7 hours ago, johnpetersen said:

 

The newsweek article is ridiculous. 4 of the cases are ancient history. The latest one being the Kennedy Nixon race. ANd the fifth one, the Gore-Bush election was not a case of voter fraud.

 

In the second example, it was about ballot fraud by a government official. NOt about voter ID fraud. And the security measures worked!

 

In the 3rd case there was no ballot fraud. Rather a postal service carrier put in a request for ballots for the republican primary to be sent to democrats. Again not a case of voter ID fraud.

 

And the fourth case was of a woman, an ex-convict, who was under supervision and said she didn't know she was ineligible to vote. How would an ID card have changed this case? It wouldn' have.

 

 

 

 

Yes, I'm aware of how Democrats always make excuses for voter fraud. To be honest, it's fun to watch the incredible power of denial.

[Crazy Alex]

3 hours ago, heybruce said:

 

Now why don't you provide evidence of the type of voter fraud that voter ID's will prevent?

The kind of voter fraud where a person impersonates another voter. You know, kinda like check fraud. That was easy.

[Crazy Alex]

10 minutes ago, candide said:

Lol! The article, by Fred Lucas, first published in the Daily Signal (funded by the Heritage Foundation), which accuses Gore of rigging elections in Florida! ????

BTW, you forgot the article about the guy who registred his dog.

This is your second surrender on the issue. Will more be forthcoming?

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, Crazy Alex said:

The kind of voter fraud where a person impersonates another voter. You know, kinda like check fraud. That was easy.

I see.  You don't understand what "evidence" means.  Is English your first language?

[johnpetersen]

5 hours ago, torturedsole said:

Quality voters make a big difference.  Emotional voters spell trouble.  

So is it your contention that quality voters support Trump because he is the exemplar of rational, fact-based discourse?

[jimmybcool]

Correct.  Requiring ID to exercise a right is a burden on the poor.   I agree.  Them evil republicans might try to make it hard for those poor democrat voters to get an ID.  And I think we need to rethink the concept of requiring anyone to show ID when purchasing a gun.  I mean, what if they don't have one.  They need to be able to exercise their RIGHT.  

 

Switched sides on this one.  No ID needed.  No voter ID.  No more filling out silly government forms declaring you aren't on drugs, a felon, declared mentally incompetent, etc to buy a gun.  No more hoping the online background check doesn't confuse you with someone restricted as to the right to own a gun.  Those are all efforts to suppress gun ownership by poor minorities.  It's a RIGHT.  Not a privilege.  Free willy.

 

 

Cash and carry.  Same as voting.  Show up, declare you are who you want to be and vote/buy a gun.

 

 

 

 

[johnpetersen]

3 minutes ago, jimmybcool said:

Correct.  Requiring ID to exercise a right is a burden on the poor.   I agree.  Them evil republicans might try to make it hard for those poor democrat voters to get an ID.  And I think we need to rethink the concept of requiring anyone to show ID when purchasing a gun.  I mean, what if they don't have one.  They need to be able to exercise their RIGHT.  

 

Switched sides on this one.  No ID needed.  No voter ID.  No more filling out silly government forms declaring you aren't on drugs, a felon, declared mentally incompetent, etc to buy a gun.  No more hoping the online background check doesn't confuse you with someone restricted as to the right to own a gun.  Those are all efforts to suppress gun ownership by poor minorities.  It's a RIGHT.  Not a privilege.  Free willy.

 

 

Cash and carry.  Same as voting.  Show up, declare you are who you want to be and vote/buy a gun.

Yes, it's past counting how many people have been slaughtered by someone wielding a ballot.