31st July Anmesty - extended until September?

[drbeach]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

I think it has far more to do with financial gain than being a "pushover".  There is a private hospital in Surin that makes a huge chunk of its income from Cambodian patients, and they are also very big business for the local super stores as well. (This last was also true in Aranyaprathet, which is not letting them across, but the local hospital aspect is rather unique to that area.  Bangkok hospitals must be missing the business, though...private Bkk hospitals were always packed with Cambodians and that includes the priciest like Bumrungrad).

Yes but it makes a mockery of the whole border closure situation. It's also puzzling how they can be allowed entry without quarantines and health insurance. What about testing? And they're allowed to drive their own cars into the country? What if they abscond?

 

Sounds like a very unusual arrangement...I mean, I think ASEAN countries should just open up already, the risk is virtually nil, but to allow these foreigners in while there is a state of emergency in place defies the purpose of the whole decree, no?

 

If you or I, or even a Thai wanted to enter Cambodia right now, we'd need to put up US$3000 for the mandatory coronavirus testing and quarantines.

At least an ambulance provided by the hospital should pick up the patients at the border, and private car travel should be banned...from my understanding returning Thais coming from a neighboring country are taken directly into quarantine.

[drbeach]

7 hours ago, khwaibah said:

Its official as the PM OK it for medical reasons. Checking on both side of crossing on health. They pack up their auto and bring the whole family. BTW NO Thais or others may cross the other way. There was an article or two on TV

Crazy that the Thais are allowing that. All without testing and quarantines? No mandatory ambulance to pick them up at the border? What if these people decided to drive to Bangkok or somewhere else for a holiday? Most checkpoints have been removed. Would be easy to do.

 

And why the hell are the Thai authorities talking about quarantines for arriving business travelers and tourists when the borders re-open? We could just point to Cambodian freeloaders who can enter the country like normal as evidence as to why that policy would be a gross double standard.

[Kalasin Jo]

It's true there are some flights out of here. It is possible but not easy to get back to many places in Europe. I could. But I'm hoping the border with Laos opens, as does the Thai Consulate Savanakhet, and that not just Thais and Laotians but us married foreigners here, using non O multiple visas based on marriage can cross just as before, get new ones and return. Otherwise I'm stuffed!  Visa expired, 90 day permission and 60  day extension too. If it wasn't for the amnesty I'd be on overstay now. 

Kalasin IO say I do not meet the requirements for a 1 year extension ( had 2 meetings they're not budging) and even if I could just put 400k in the bank right now, as they suggest, it won't have seasoned and they say no leeway there either. How many others like me? Will there be a mad rush if/ when border opens???

 

[drbeach]

7 minutes ago, Kalasin Jo said:

It's true there are some flights out of here. It is possible but not easy to get back to many places in Europe. I could. But I'm hoping the border with Laos opens, as does the Thai Consulate Savanakhet, and that not just Thais and Laotians but us married foreigners here, using non O multiple visas based on marriage can cross just as before, get new ones and return. Otherwise I'm stuffed!  Visa expired, 90 day permission and 60  day extension too. If it wasn't for the amnesty I'd be on overstay now. 

Kalasin IO say I do not meet the requirements for a 1 year extension ( had 2 meetings they're not budging) and even if I could just put 400k in the bank right now, as they suggest, it won't have seasoned and they say no leeway there either. How many others like me? Will there be a mad rush if/ when border opens???

 

Is the reason you don't meet the requirements for the extension that the money hasn't been seasoned long enough?

 

You might want to consider involving a lawyer. Perhaps they can smooth things over with immigration, if you can afford it of course.

 

I agree with you about Laos (and other neighboring countries) but from my research, it seems that Europe is much more likely to open without quarantines as early as next month (not sure about covid testing but apparently not, at least if you're a citizen returning home) than any neighboring countries are.

 

The only indication I have about a neighboring country possibly opening to tourism and general travel soon, and this includes with generous visa rules, including visa exemptions to stimulate tourism, is Myanmar. According to the Myanmar Times, stage 3 of the re-opening plan involves allowing tourists in from August, when phase 3 starts, to last until January 2021. Not sure what is meant by "phase 3" or whether it will involve quarantines or not, the article doesn't mention anything to that effect.

 

I run a business in Myanmar and would have no problem spending 2 weeks there (the minimum I need anyway) or even a month, from August onward when they re-open. But I would be concerned about being able to return to Thailand after that, with minimal fuss. i certainly don't want to spend 3 months or 6 months in Myanmar, without being able to return to Thailand. That being said, I doubt that Thailand would be imposing quarantines if Myanmar doesn't. I don't see that happening. I think whenever borders re-open, the two sides will impose similar requirements, whether they're stringent or it's back to normal, remains to be seen.

[SePl]

it is an evidence that it will be extended just like it was clear before the extension that it will be given to everybody.

but why is it so difficult for many people to see clear when it's so clear ?!

 

[drbeach]

24 minutes ago, SePl said:

it is an evidence that it will be extended just like it was clear before the extension that it will be given to everybody.

but why is it so difficult for many people to see clear when it's so clear ?!

 

It's not quite clear yet, though it's an indication that it could be extended. Still, I am using the next 5-6 weeks of the remaining amnesty to weigh up my options, just in case it isn't, though I think you could be right.

[DaRoadrunner]

On 6/21/2020 at 8:32 AM, ubonjoe said:

Flights not arriving does not mean there will be no flights out of the country. There are some available now.

Joe, where are you getting your info from?

 

Thanks

[VBF]

8 hours ago, Pattaya46 said:

I am in a similar case, but Emirates is even better than that, as you can even change your destination for a nearby country (Vietnam, Cambodia, ...)  ????

 

https://www.emirates.com/fr/english/help/keep-your-ticket/ :

 

Yeah but that wouldn't make any sense financially. Better to KEEP the long-haul (Thailand - UK Business Class) ticket and just buy a Thailand to a local country "cheapie" ticket on any old airline - think it through ????

[VBF]

9 hours ago, possum1931 said:

"and is now an effective "open ticket" good for 2 years."  That would suit me just fine if they cancel my flight. Thanks.

As of NOW Emirates are not flying into / out of Thailand, so have already effectively cancelled your ticket. So get in there quick and get the deal....you never know if they might change their minds!

[drbeach]

2 minutes ago, VBF said:

Yeah but that wouldn't make any sense financially. Better to KEEP the long-haul (Thailand - UK Business Class) ticket and just buy a Thailand to a local country "cheapie" ticket on any old airline - think it through ????

Nearby countries aren't open yet either and probably won't re-open until around the same time as Thailand does. Myanmar might open in August, but details are vague. No word on quarantines or anything of that sort. Malaysia and Vietnam, unlikely to open until September.

[NoshowJones]

5 minutes ago, VBF said:

As of NOW Emirates are not flying into / out of Thailand, so have already effectively cancelled your ticket. So get in there quick and get the deal....you never know if they might change their minds!

I booked through a travel agency, will that make any difference?

[VBF]

1 minute ago, possum1931 said:

I booked through a travel agency, will that make any difference?

Probably - they might make you go via the TA to do anything. Easiest way is just to call Emirates and ask - don't actually mention the TA, just give them the ticket number and see what happens.

Good Luck????

[VBF]

9 minutes ago, drbeach said:

Nearby countries aren't open yet either and probably won't re-open until around the same time as Thailand does. Myanmar might open in August, but details are vague. No word on quarantines or anything of that sort. Malaysia and Vietnam, unlikely to open until September.

But to answer the original question, just keep the big ticket until you need to and can fly long haul

[visarunner]

On 6/21/2020 at 9:13 AM, Scouse123 said:

If the borders open under a bilateral agreement,  of course, they will allow people back into Thailand. That is the whole point of it.

 

wrong thinking, any agreement is based on passport country, means when Thai-Laos border open, they most likely only allow Thai and Laotian to cross. It does not matter if you as US Citizen which spend the past 6 month in Thailand. 

[BritTim]

11 minutes ago, visarunner said:

wrong thinking, any agreement is based on passport country, means when Thai-Laos border open, they most likely only allow Thai and Laotian to cross. It does not matter if you as US Citizen which spend the past 6 month in Thailand. 

Travel bubbles are based on the idea that you only allow people to enter Thailand just after they leave another Covid-19 free country. Your passport is irrelevant. There may be restrictions based on xenophobia, but there is absolutely no logical reason why someone who has been through quarantine in Vietnam should not then be allowed to travel to Thailand, assuming a travel bubble is in place.

[pmarlin]

On 6/21/2020 at 9:16 AM, ubonjoe said:

It is not only repatriation flights into the country that people can board at this time.

There are flights transiting through that are allowed to board passengers There are even some that are flying in empty to pick up passengers.

A little bit of false info stating no flights out of the country in that article.

Sure you can book a flight out of Thailand that doesn't mean a flight to your home country. Un;ess yu can book one all the way home it could mean being stuck is some airport in another country.

[drbeach]

3 hours ago, BritTim said:

Travel bubbles are based on the idea that you only allow people to enter Thailand just after they leave another Covid-19 free country. Your passport is irrelevant. There may be restrictions based on xenophobia, but there is absolutely no logical reason why someone who has been through quarantine in Vietnam should not then be allowed to travel to Thailand, assuming a travel bubble is in place.

That is true, and easy to verify based on looking at the previous entry stamps, as Thailand and it's neighbors do at land borders all the time anyway.

 

And while you are likely correct, there remains a possibility, that they may decide to open these travel bubbles only for citizens of the countries involved in the bubble BUT that remains to be seen. I have seen no official word confirming or denying this. Therefore, speculation, like the guy made you replied to, is of little value. I prefer to wait until we know what actually happens.

Edited June 23, 2020 by drbeach

[Benitostacos]

3 hours ago, BritTim said:

Travel bubbles are based on the idea that you only allow people to enter Thailand just after they leave another Covid-19 free country. Your passport is irrelevant. There may be restrictions based on xenophobia, but there is absolutely no logical reason why someone who has been through quarantine in Vietnam should not then be allowed to travel to Thailand, assuming a travel bubble is in place.

I totally agree that this is how things should be done. However, before Cambodia locked down their borders, they were refusing admittance to US passport holders (but not Thai citizens) coming from Thailand, even though these passengers clearly had not been in the US for a long duration of time. I was informed of this by the US embassy when I was attempting to travel several months back from Thailand.

[racket]

I think there's a high probability that they will extend with at least 1 month. Simply put, a lot of people unnecessarily extended their permission of stay which in turn means they'll have to leave by 31 July 2020. Leaving the country could be a possibility by mid July but the problem remains if the country of travel has opened up its borders, with that said 31 July is still a date too early to force stranded tourists out so I do see that they'll extend it with another month. 

 

Heck, if they want to boost domestic tourism then they should go ahead and just extend it with 90 days to at least support the tourist sector a bit longer while people are still here.

Edited June 23, 2020 by racket

[Caldera]

4 hours ago, BritTim said:

Travel bubbles are based on the idea that you only allow people to enter Thailand just after they leave another Covid-19 free country. Your passport is irrelevant. There may be restrictions based on xenophobia, but there is absolutely no logical reason why someone who has been through quarantine in Vietnam should not then be allowed to travel to Thailand, assuming a travel bubble is in place.

While I (obviously) cannot fault your logic, I'm afraid that it will be a lot more complicated in practice. These are bilateral agreements to be negotiated between governments, and statements so far have indicated that they will give preference to certain groups of travelers. Provisions for repatriation and cost of treatment in case a traveler happens to be infected might well exclude travelers who aren't citizens of the countries involved.

 

When Thailand recently discussed reopening land borders with Laos, their focus was on returnees and on business travelers from both countries. No plans for tourists or nationals of other countries, at least not in phase 1.

 

Cambodia just announced that they will let certain Vietnamese enter by land again. Notably, no tourists will be allowed to cross and also no travelers who aren't Vietnamese citizens.

 

So far, this isn't looking good! It might be many months until any agreements will cover foreign tourists.

 

[Sheryl]

16 hours ago, david555 said:

They gave this visa amnesty at that time all was chaos , not only in Immigration ,but also in air traffic as total non existing ,  but as now there are possibility's for those flying out Thailand , I guess this could be the last amnesty they go  give , as they could claim  all had time to consider their case to find solution for to plan leaving .

For those in need to do visa run for their local visa system the problem stay's if no new amnesty , so they are in real problem if land borders don't open .

 

 

There is also the issue of migrant workers. The system is such that (for those here legally) once their permission to stay is up they can only renew it by leaving the country and re-entering which they currently cannot do.

 

That's hundreds of thousands of people.

[Sheryl]

16 hours ago, drbeach said:

Crazy that the Thais are allowing that. All without testing and quarantines? No mandatory ambulance to pick them up at the border? What if these people decided to drive to Bangkok or somewhere else for a holiday? Most checkpoints have been removed. Would be easy to do.

 

And why the hell are the Thai authorities talking about quarantines for arriving business travelers and tourists when the borders re-open? We could just point to Cambodian freeloaders who can enter the country like normal as evidence as to why that policy would be a gross double standard.

 

Note that this practice is limited to one upcountry location.

 

And I would hardly call people coming for private medical care and shopping "freeloaders",  they are paying customers.

[david555]

23 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

There is also the issue of migrant workers. The system is such that (for those here legally) once their permission to stay is up they can only renew it by leaving the country and re-entering which they currently cannot do.

 

That's hundreds of thousands of people.

i wonder how many of those migrant workers maybe left already to their own country because the shrinking economy and lockdown ?

In such case the hundreds of thousand could be lowered already , and by keeping the rules as now , immigration draining that pool ….

As I can not see they can keep the visa rules as non existing anymore , comparing with their visa attitude before corona 

Edited June 23, 2020 by david555

[Sheryl]

The total pre COVID number just for Cambodians was estimated 1 million, though not all legal.

 

Many left, but there are at least several hundred thousand still here.

 

I hire one of them and am in the midst of trying to sort things out, talking with immigration, employment broker etc. Huge numbers in this situation.

[drbeach]

32 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

Note that this practice is limited to one upcountry location.

 

And I would hardly call people coming for private medical care and shopping "freeloaders",  they are paying customers.

Nevertheless, it's a strange breach of the state of emergency rules. Cambodia may have a middle class now, but it's small. And of course, like in Thailand, a tiny, rather wealthy elite. 90% of the country's population is still dirt poor, but that's not the point.

 

My point is how can Thai authorities allow the Cambodians to freely cross in their own vehicles without so much as quarantine (and what about the US$100,000 insurance requirement, are they in possession of this?), when Thai authorities have announced all foreigners, who are eligible to enter the Kingdom in coming weeks will have to pass through numerous hoops to enter, and this includes medical tourists who apparently will be picked up or sent directly to the hospital when they arrive.

 

I am sorry, but I find it outrageous that such a double standard can be allowed to exist.

Edited June 23, 2020 by drbeach

[drbeach]

37 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 

There is also the issue of migrant workers. The system is such that (for those here legally) once their permission to stay is up they can only renew it by leaving the country and re-entering which they currently cannot do.

 

That's hundreds of thousands of people.

It's easy for them to catch a bus back to Cambodia and come back at a later date once the borders re-open if there is a demand for their services. It's only like 240km from Bangkok. Not a big deal, unlike for us stranded westerners, or Africans, Asians from countries further afield like Japan etc. Cambodians have it super easy compared to us.

 

Also, I think Thais should be prioritized in terms of being granted jobs. I don't know how true it is, but apparently there are millions of unemployed Thais at the moment...if so, they should fire the migrant workers and give the jobs to Thais that want them.

[david555]

3 minutes ago, drbeach said:

It's easy for them to catch a bus back to Cambodia and come back at a later date once the borders re-open if there is a demand for their services. It's only like 240km from Bangkok. Not a big deal, unlike for us stranded westerners, or Africans, Asians from countries further afield like Japan etc. Cambodians have it super easy compared to us.

 

Also, I think Thais should be prioritized in terms of being granted jobs. I don't know how true it is, but apparently there are millions of unemployed Thais at the moment...if so, they should fire the migrant workers and give the jobs to Thais that want them.

Taking note of the first part of your post , that is why I think this amnesty giving can not become a continuous case , unless it is in Thailand favor they shall limit at a certain point. As yes they can take bus....,

 

But also the other ones as called "stranded" are bound to find their solution or ….leave ….and there are planes available to leave ...only not by using the normal return ticket , they must buy a new single flight 

[Sheryl]

12 minutes ago, drbeach said:

It's easy for them to catch a bus back to Cambodia and come back at a later date once the borders re-open if there is a demand for their services. It's only like 240km from Bangkok. Not a big deal, unlike for us stranded westerners, or Africans, Asians from countries further afield like Japan etc. Cambodians have it super easy compared to us.

 

Also, I think Thais should be prioritized in terms of being granted jobs. I don't know how true it is, but apparently there are millions of unemployed Thais at the moment...if so, they should fire the migrant workers and give the jobs to Thais that want them.

 

it is hardly "easy" for them to leave their employment indefinitely, if they want to keep their jobs.

 

I  live in an area which is heavily dependent on Cambodian labors and am being besieged by people and businesses  seeking to "borrow" my Cambodian household staff to help out because they are no longer able to bring Cambodian workers in. There are no Thais willing to do these jobs to be found and that situation has not changed since pre-COVID.

 

Very debatable that there are "millions of unemployed Thais" anywhere and there appear to be zero out where I live.  COVID has mainly affected the tourist industry but it does not follow that all those people are now completely idle, they are doing something and that something does not usually  include heavy manual labor etc.

[G950]

I literally just came from a decent sized Bangkok lawyers office and they are saying extension through August is going to have to be made. A few were saying September too. 

 

The reason stated was that there are just too many people stuck here to get everybody out in a month or even two if flights start opening up. 

 

 

[drbeach]

3 hours ago, Sheryl said:

 

it is hardly "easy" for them to leave their employment indefinitely, if they want to keep their jobs.

 

I  live in an area which is heavily dependent on Cambodian labors and am being besieged by people and businesses  seeking to "borrow" my Cambodian household staff to help out because they are no longer able to bring Cambodian workers in. There are no Thais willing to do these jobs to be found and that situation has not changed since pre-COVID.

 

Very debatable that there are "millions of unemployed Thais" anywhere and there appear to be zero out where I live.  COVID has mainly affected the tourist industry but it does not follow that all those people are now completely idle, they are doing something and that something does not usually  include heavy manual labor etc.

That's a good point but I'm only going by what I've been reading in the papers (might be sloppy journalism though, because some of the predictions are just that, predictions, like a "what if" scenario based on this or that)...in my moo baan, all the laborers and manual workers, security guards etc. who are not Thai, are Cambodian and by all accounts, most, if not all, are still here. Hard to say though, because they all kinda look the same, and there seems to be a high turnover...never really paid much attention though. I also live a little closer to the Cambodian than Burmese border, which might be one reason for this.

 

According to several well informed Burmese colleagues and some former migrant workers (I run a business in Myanmar and have also employed/worked with Burmese factory workers on the Thai side), Burmese and Cambodians don't get along, so you tend to have workplaces that have either Burmese or Cambodians, but not both together.

 

Of course, this doesn't apply everywhere, such as in construction, it's often a mixture of both, but where possible, workplaces tend to attract this nationality, or that nationality or are separated according to task. You know, solidarity and cultural familiarity. Similar to us farang gravitating toward each other when we live or travel abroad. We obviously share more in common with each other than we do with Asians or Africans in terms of language and culture.

 

I have not seen much evidence of mass unemployment anywhere I've been since the state of emergency started, and I could imagine that most people, other than those working in industries which have yet to be given the greenlight to restart operations such as bars and night entertainment venues, are back at work.

 

As long as there is no unemployment among Thais, there is no need for Cambodians or Burmese or Lao or Vietnamese to go home. However, according to recent predictions made, the Thai, Singaporean and Cambodian economies are likely to fare the worst this year (roughly equally badly, though Thailand is going to be worst affected), while Vietnam may still see some growth. If so, it would make more sense for Vietnamese to go back home, where more opportunities can likely be found this year. Cambodians may find the same thing, but for whatever reason tend to be attracted more to Thailand (could be due to recent animosities between Vietnam and Cambodia...not sure exactly).

 

And for the record, regarding the other comment I made, shopping is not an acceptable reason for Cambodians to come to Thailand right now, especially since no else is allowed to, and besides, there's no need to anyway. The shopping scene in Cambodia isn't half bad these days. There's a Big C in Poipet now, and possibly in other cities too, and Siem Reap has a Siam Makro store. There's also an AEON mall in Phnom Penh, which is every bit as good as Central is in Thailand (only a little smaller, but not by much). Can't really see what you can find in Surin that's not available in Siem Reap or Phnom Penh. In fact, Siem Reap even has the "Royal Siem Reap Hospital" which is affiliated with Bangkok Hospital. Surely, that's good enough for middle class Cambodians? If for whatever reason that hospital is insufficient, and there's an emergency, I can see that as being an acceptable reason to be allowed entry into Thailand but it should involve being picked up at the border. I think Thailand needs to demand more reciprocity, including under current circumstances. An agreement where Thais of certain categories have equal rights to enter Cambodia as the latter has to enter Thailand, seems fair. But a one way flow, that's just taking the <deleted>, as the English say. That's the last point I wanted to make on this matter. I think if this makes the rounds on Thai social media, it would turn into a huge storm...especially since Thais are still afraid of covid and this looks like a breach of the emergency decree.