Are ATMs not ripping people off anymore like long time ago?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

To this day, I still remember my first visit to Thailand about 15 years ago.

 

Brought along my BofA debit card at the time for getting misc local spending cash, apart from traveler's cheques and hotel and airplane and other expenses that had been prepaid via credit card.

 

When I got back from my trip and looked at my BofA checking statement, I was shocked!!!   As best as I can recall, at the time, I think it was a $3 flat fee charge plus 3% foreign currency fee every time I used my BofA card in a Thai ATM machine... Plus whatever the Thai bank foreign card ATM fee was at that time.

 

Needless to say, from that encounter, I learned the valuable traveler's lesson -- NEVER AGAIN!!!

 

Edited July 4, 2020 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Jeffrey346]

7 hours ago, Pib said:

Seems WU is a better deal than Transferwise purely based on above snapshot.  But it appears above snapshot is from the WU U.S. "public" webpage vs a person's logged-in account.  Public webpages often leave out important details or only show an "indicative" exchange rate versus what a person really gets once opening an account.  And then sometimes you find out there are "got-yous" or other fees, etc. 

 

Wonder if you could give more details and examples from some of your actual transfers to your Thai bank to included how you funded the transfer such as via ACH, etc.  Any receiving fees on the Thailand end?  If using ACH are there limits....what process WU used to validate ACH funding, etc.   Also, what is the acct registration/validation process like for a WU U.S. online acct.  

 

Would just appreciate some more details as on the surface it appears to be a better deal than Transferwise....but if it was better deal seems it would be widely known...lots of people talking about it.   

 

P.S. I have a WU "Thailand" online acct but it's for transferring funds out of Thailand.  I don't have a WU U.S. online acct.

 

I was logged in when I took that screenshot. No fees on the receiving end. I fund the transfer with my US debit card. WU in the past has always has had a $2.99 fee for any transfer but they seem to be waiving lately. I believe the limit is $20,000 and you would need to open a US WU account. I use my MAC for TH WU and the WU App for my US account.

I had always used TW till a friend suggested WU. I checked it out and then called TW in the US. They said they could not compete with the fees and transfer time though their rate was a bit better.

Been using WU for 10 months now with no issues.

Edited July 4, 2020 by Jeffrey346

[Pib]

17 minutes ago, Jeffrey346 said:

I was logged in when I took that screenshot. No fees on the receiving end. I fund the transfer with my US debit card. WU in the past has always has had a $2.99 fee for any transfer but they seem to be waiving lately. I believe the limit is $20,000 and you would need to open a US WU account. I use my MAC for TH WU and the WU App for my US account.

I had always used TW till a friend suggested WU. I checked it out and then called TW in the US. They said they could not compete with the fees and transfer time though their rate was a bit better.

Been using WU for 10 months now with no issues.

Thanks. 

 

I'm almost shocked that TW U.S. Online to a Thai bank acct compares so favorably (actually better) to Transferwise cost-wise.   I'm also trying to figure out if there is any major cons/negatives that a person would never find out about until registering for an acct....something the WU public webpage doesn't address or hides in vague language.  Then once you signed-up and maybe provided personal docs for verification during that sign-up process you decide the major con(s) makes you wish you had never signed up.

 

But hey, last year I got involved in a Thaivisa thread about using WU Thailand to send money to the US....started off figuring it would be costly (and it is if just adding WU capability to your Thai bank acct)....but when signing up directly with WU Thailand it's a good deal.  I ended up getting a WU Thailand acct and sending money to the U.S.   Worked like a charm and was cheap & easy...and the funds posted to my U.S. bank acct in hours.  See below thread.   

 

And right now it sure appears based on your feedback it's a good deal to signup for a WU U.S. online acct to send money from the US directly to a Thai bank acct.  I still haven't come across any major con/negative--and that could simply be because there is none.  Thanks again.

 

 

[Pib]

5 hours ago, taotoo said:

Bangkok Bank always USED to give me a choice of rates. In only in the last few months that it no longer offers the third-party rate. Times must be tough for the banks, and I'm wondering why they would abandon the DCC option which presumably they made a profit on.

Over the last few months did you get a new/renewed card?  Or maybe changed from Visa or Mastercard or vice-versa? 

 

In the dozen or so years I've been in Thailand and having used my various U.S. Visa and Mastercard cards (mostly Visa, but a couple of Mastercards) in ATMs I have never been offered DCC at the Krungsri and TMB ATMs I primarily use and have used "many" times.  I have also used a few other Thai bank ATMs like KrungThai Bank and Bangkok Bank in a pinch but only a few times over those dozen years...and never offered DCC at these ATMs either.

[JensenZ]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

When I got here in 2008 Thai banks had the ATM fee for foreign cards....it was around 120-150 baht and has been climbing ever since; only AEON ATMs were still free in 2008.  But around Jan/Feb 2014 AEON ATMs also started charging a fee of Bt150.

LOL. How do you remember all this stuff. I'm quite good with dates, but couldn't have given such a detailed history. Did you look it up or do you write in down in your diary?

[Pib]

24 minutes ago, JensenZ said:

LOL. How do you remember all this stuff. I'm quite good with dates, but couldn't have given such a detailed history. Did you look it up or do you write in down in your diary?

I just simply remember what the fee was back then....plus I can usually just lookup/search for old posts to refresh the memory like the old post link I include in post #88 of this thread....here it is again.

 

 

[Matzzon]

2 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

and not require them to be financial private eyes in order to find out just how much it's going to cost them

I guess that is a matter of interest, don´t you? If you care about the cost of 150-220 baht when you take out 25 000 baht or if you rather send 50 000 baht to a Thai bank and still get the cost of 500 baht? Sorry, but that´s just the hard fact. Maybe it does not sound so bad when you have those facts?

[JensenZ]

2 minutes ago, Pib said:

I just simply remember what the fee was back then....plus I can usually just lookup/search for old posts to refresh the memory like the old post link I include in post #88 of this thread....here it is again.

 

 

It's the exact date or month most banks started charging ATM fees that I'd be more interested in. That was big news at the time. You say 2008, I believe it was a few years later on. You can research that...

 

Assuming maximum withdrawal amount, the AEON is slightly more expensive than the other banks where you can pull 30k for 220 baht.

[taotoo]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

Over the last few months did you get a new/renewed card?  Or maybe changed from Visa or Mastercard or vice-versa? 

 

In the dozen or so years I've been in Thailand and having used my various U.S. Visa and Mastercard cards (mostly Visa, but a couple of Mastercards) in ATMs I have never been offered DCC at the Krungsri and TMB ATMs I primarily use and have used "many" times.  I have also used a few other Thai bank ATMs like KrungThai Bank and Bangkok Bank in a pinch but only a few times over those dozen years...and never offered DCC at these ATMs either.

It's the same mastercard as before - not a new one. Maybe some home country banks have a word and they disable the DCC option for cards from that bank?

[Eindhoven]

12 hours ago, Surasak said:

Its not possible to take a cash advance over the counter in some banks. Some can't do it because they don't have the correct card reader, and some banks just refuse with no reason. 

 

So? Did I write that you can get cash advances from every bank?

I made it clear that I use the same branch every time.

[Eindhoven]

5 hours ago, Pib said:

When I got here in 2008 Thai banks had the ATM fee for foreign cards....it was around 120-150 baht and has been climbing ever since; only AEON ATMs were still free in 2008.  But around Jan/Feb 2014 AEON ATMs also started charging a fee of Bt150.

 

Erm... I don't think so. It was much lower in the beginning. Perhaps even 20 baht.

 

Siam Commercial Bank was the first to introduce the charge.

 

Further to this:

 

 

[SunsetT]

On 7/3/2020 at 8:46 AM, Eindhoven said:

 

30000 baht withdrawn over the counter with a Mastercard yesterday would have cost me the equivalent of 862.33 Euro.

TW is useful in it's own right, but not for me.

 

But what exchange rate are you getting over the counter? Is it the Mastercard rate or the Thai bank's rate? I have never been able to get that info. from friends who have used over the counter withdrawals.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

5 hours ago, Pib said:

but when signing up directly with WU Thailand it's a good deal.  I ended up getting a WU Thailand acct and sending money to the U.S.   Worked like a charm and was cheap & easy...and the funds posted to my U.S. bank acct in hours.  See below thread.   

 

And right now it sure appears based on your feedback it's a good deal to signup for a WU U.S. online acct to send money from the US directly to a Thai bank acct.  I still haven't come across any major con/negative--and that could simply be because there is none.

 

So I'm getting confused here... 

 

Can you just sign up for ONE WU account and use it to send money either way, US to TH or TH to US... or

 

You need to sign up for two different accounts:

--a US WU to send to other countries, and

--a TH WU account to send to the US and elsewhere???

 

The only negative I noted about the WU US-to-TH example posted above was the actual exchange rate that was posted was actually a bit worse than the standard MC and VISA networks rates for the same day, as illustrated in my response post.

 

So a no FCF, no 220b fee ATM transaction with the appropriate card would be more economical if all a person needed was 30,000 baht or so. But, if someone was going to send a larger amount of money into Thailand, then the WU deal might compare favorably with wire transfer and TFW costs.

 

It would be interesting to do a comparison for some larger than ATM amounts between the WU US to BKKB TH approach vs the BKKB NY to BKKB TH domestic wire transfer approach.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

16 minutes ago, SunsetT said:

But what exchange rate are you getting over the counter? Is it the Mastercard rate or the Thai bank's rate? I have never been able to get that info. from friends who have used over the counter withdrawals.

 

Counter withdrawals generally should be done at the prevailing MC or VISA card network rates for the day, UNLESS you end up with one of the exception situations like SCB or a few others where added fees are involved.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

53 minutes ago, Eindhoven said:

 

Erm... I don't think so. It was much lower in the beginning. Perhaps even 20 baht.

 

Siam Commercial Bank was the first to introduce the charge.

 

Further to this:

 

 

 

That poster long ago here on TVF certainly was a man ahead of his time...

[SunsetT]

For years I used Thai ATMs with a fee free UK credit card, especially good when Aeon ATMs remained fee free. Avoiding the ultra devious DCC scam the Mastercard exchange rate was unbeatable. But when the greedy Thai bank withdrawal fee went up to 200/220 thb for max 30k I switched to Transferwise for 3 reasons. 1) Even though overall there is mostly not much difference in the rate u get, the more u transfer the better the rate advantage with Transferwise. 2) My UK CC bank also seemed to be deviously manipulating the Mastercard rate that u receive. There is an online MC exchange rate calculator where u can check if u r receiving the correct rate: https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/personal/get-support/convert-currency.html (Which is also devious -though I havent used it lately) The deviousness is in that both say that the rate you receive may not be the exchange rate at the time that u made the withdrawal but the rate when your bank processes the withdrawal which may be one or two days later, or more if a weekend is involved. So I think that this is wide open to abuse by banks who can choose to apply the lowest exchange rate during this time frame, especially if there is a clear upward or downward trend. I used to check my exchange rates when I was in Thailand with the calculator and OK it seemed to work both ways; sometimes better and sometimes worse, but overall it was clearly in the banks favour. I complained a few times, even receiving refunds, firstly told that the rate should be  that at the time of the withdrawal, then a year later told that it was when the bank processed it, and eventually, more slimily but honestly, told that the rate applied could be anytime between the two and that, as the bank was in the business of making money, I would NOT receive any more refunds! This despite that for purchases made on the card, they do seem to be consistent in being able to apply the Mastercard exchange rate at the time of the purchase. 3) Had a drink so cant remember what 3 is...555. Probably only that I hate banks taking advantage of their monopoly and their customers with their slimy OTT charges and blatent rip-offs like the DCC. In contrast I love and respect Transferwise's honesty in that the exchange rate and their charge is clearly shown up front on their website. Also the guaranteed rate for 24 hrs + more at the weekend gives u control with the option of waiting and delaying payment to Transferwise. So u dont lose out if the rate goes down and can benefit from the better rate if it has increased significantly by delaying payment until the rate guarantee has expired.

 

Also u can take advantage if u wish of their referral scheme from which I have already made £200 and if u want to make it £250 for me then please sign up with them using this link...555. U will also benefit by getting your 1st £500 (or equivalent) transfer free: 

 

https://transferwise.com/invite/u/terencep15https://transferwise.com/invite/u/terencep15

[SunsetT]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Counter withdrawals generally should be done at the prevailing MC or VISA card network rates for the day, UNLESS you end up with one of the exception situations like SCB or a few others where added fees are involved.

 

Thank you John but like my friends u give me a vague answer! U say "should" be done. But it could well be done at the bank's own exchange rate unless checked. I need someone who has made a transfer and checked the rate on the bank receipt that they have received by this method. Posting a dated receipt on here would be best. U have also mentioned another important point; does the bank make a charge for the transfer? In fact I think I did ask BKK or Kasikorn bank a long time ago if there was a 3% charge for the bank's advertised 'TT' exchange rate (which I assumed was an over the counter transfer) which they affirmed did apply. But with the language barrier I was never sure if she understood me or I understood her...555.

Edited July 4, 2020 by SunsetT

[Kalasin Jo]

On 7/3/2020 at 12:44 PM, Sojuncoke said:

 

Ok either way I always saw that using ATM was a lot more expensive a few years back but now its actually cheaper than using transferwise. So then why would anyone use transferwise? 

If you want or need proof of foreign transfers to your Thai account I doubt that an ATM ticket would satisfy Immigration. I've  started using TransferWise because even the way I was transferring, via Bangkok Bank London Branch, had given me IO problems and is expensive. But if you don't need that......whatever method is best for you.

[Pib]

14 hours ago, JensenZ said:

It's the exact date or month most banks started charging ATM fees that I'd be more interested in. That was big news at the time. You say 2008, I believe it was a few years later on. You can research that...

I said when I arrived Thailand in 2008 Thai banks were "already" charging around 100-120 baht....don't know when they first started charging a high fee.

[treetops]

150 baht fee introduced April 2009 according to this thread.

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/topic/255263-thai-banks-to-start-charging-for-atm-withdrawals/#comments

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 hours ago, SunsetT said:

Thank you John but like my friends u give me a vague answer! U say "should" be done. But it could well be done at the bank's own exchange rate unless checked. I need someone who has made a transfer and checked the rate on the bank receipt that they have received by this method. Posting a dated receipt on here would be best. U have also mentioned another important point; does the bank make a charge for the transfer? In fact I think I did ask BKK or Kasikorn bank a long time ago if there was a 3% charge for the bank's advertised 'TT' exchange rate (which I assumed was an over the counter transfer) which they affirmed did apply. But with the language barrier I was never sure if she understood me or I understood her...555.

 

I'm not a major player here with counter withdrawals, mainly because I encountered too many local bank branch hassles that, along with needing to carry along my original passport, made the whole process too much of a bother for me.

 

I've done some in the past, and always gotten the card networks rate, not the Thai bank buying TT rate. But YMMV depending on the bank and potential other factors. Perhaps others who are more active with counter withdrawals can add more detail.

 

That said, I don't know of any 3% surcharge associated with counter withdrawals here in TH... If anything, a 3% surcharge sounds more like the typical foreign currency conversion fee that home country banks often charge for ATM withdrawals or card purchases done abroad.

 

 

[Surasak]

12 hours ago, Eindhoven said:

 

So? Did I write that you can get cash advances from every bank?

I made it clear that I use the same branch every time.

So, I was making a point of fact. If that upsets you, tuff, just carry on using the same bank.

[JensenZ]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

I said when I arrived Thailand in 2008 Thai banks were "already" charging around 100-120 baht....don't know when they first started charging a high fee.

 Those were the days - used to be able to grab 40k from an AEON machine at Tesco North Pattaya, for free.

[khunjeff]

10 hours ago, SunsetT said:

The deviousness is in that both say that the rate you receive may not be the exchange rate at the time that u made the withdrawal but the rate when your bank processes the withdrawal which may be one or two days later, or more if a weekend is involved. So I think that this is wide open to abuse by banks who can choose to apply the lowest exchange rate during this time frame, especially if there is a clear upward or downward trend.

I've found that my ATM withdrawals are always at the exact rate listed on the Visa calculator, which makes sense since the transaction settles immediately by withdrawing money from my bank account.

 

Credit card transactions, on the other hand, typically take 1-3 days to be finalized, so the final amount that I'm charged may end up being slightly more or less than what was in effect on the day I made the purchase. I don't see any pattern that would indicate nefarious manipulation by the bank, though.

 

I still recall decades ago when CC transactions were handled on paper slips. During periods when exchange rates were turbulent, the final amount that I actually ended up paying on a large foreign purchase was sometimes quite a bit cheaper or more expensive than I had envisioned when the transaction finally cleared weeks later.

Edited July 5, 2020 by khunjeff

[Pib]

12 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

So I'm getting confused here... 

 

Can you just sign up for ONE WU account and use it to send money either way, US to TH or TH to US... or

 

You need to sign up for two different accounts:

--a US WU to send to other countries, and

--a TH WU account to send to the US and elsewhere??

 

The latter...two WU online accts needed to "send" both directions...one US and one TH.

[natway09]

And there is the rub, The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

The crunch is when you check your statement & find the rate given

[Pib]

12 hours ago, SunsetT said:

Thank you John but like my friends u give me a vague answer! U say "should" be done. But it could well be done at the bank's own exchange rate unless checked. I need someone who has made a transfer and checked the rate on the bank receipt that they have received by this method. Posting a dated receipt on here would be best. U have also mentioned another important point; does the bank make a charge for the transfer? In fact I think I did ask BKK or Kasikorn bank a long time ago if there was a 3% charge for the bank's advertised 'TT' exchange rate (which I assumed was an over the counter transfer) which they affirmed did apply. But with the language barrier I was never sure if she understood me or I understood her...555.

I've done numerous counter withdrawals at Thai banks....specifically at Bangkok Bank and Krungsri Bank.  I only use my no foreign transaction fee debit/credit cards.  Neither bank has ever attempted a DCC transaction....the exchange rate I receive "exactly matches" to within 2 to 4 decimal points of the card-network (i.e., Visa/Mastercard) exchange rate.  

 

If using a debit card the exchange rate hitting my US bank acct has almost always matched the card network exchange rate for the "actual transaction" but a few times it has been the next business day exchange rate.  

 

What determines the final exchange rate is the "card network "settlement" date" not to be confused with "actual transaction" date.  Debit card transactions usually "settle" same business day but credit card transactions usually settle a couple business days later.  The settlement process various somewhat between a debit and credit card and whether single or dual messaging is used in the settlement process...dual messaging takes longer.   

 

Also, since the "settlement" date may not be the same day as the actual transaction date that means the initial exchange rate appearing on your bank/card acct (i.e., Pending transaction) may differ when it settles (Final Posting) to your bank/card acct.   The rate may go up or down as exchange rates vary from day-to-day.

 

Now if you do not have a no foreign transaction fee (a.k.., no cross border fee, no international service fee, etc) the exchange rate will be worst/lower than the full card-network rate.  Say you have a card that charges a 2% foreign transaction fee.  Well, the exchange rate that hits your bank/card acct will work out to be 2% worst/lower.  Exactly how that fee will appear on your acct depends on how your card-issuing bank displays it....some break the fee out separately....some leave it lump into the gross amount you withdrew/charged.  Visa/Mastercard recommend/prefer banks break the fee out separately but whether banks do that or not is purely up to the card-issuing banks.

 

A person needs to know what fees their "card-issuing" bank applies.  Many card-issuing banks typically charge a foreign transaction fee of 1 to 3% (or even more) and maybe even a flat fee of $5 (or more).  But there are also quite a few that do not charge any foreign transaction fees.   

 

Approx 1% of that 1 to 3% fee will actually be a card-network fee which your card-issuing bank can either absorb or pass along to you.  DO NOT blame these fees on the Thai bank as these fees are generated by the card-network and/or your card-issuing bank. 

 

The only fee the Thai bank adds for an ATM or counter withdrawal is an ATM Use Fee (i.e., the Thai bank Bt220 fee for a foreign card) and how some Thai bank will add an admin fee of Bt180-200 for a counter withdrawal when using a foreign card--you can definitely blame the Thai bank for these fees....these are not card network or card-issuing bank fees.  

 

However, there is one more fee that will flow to your card-issuing bank for ATM or counter withdrawal which your card-issuing bank must pay to the bank that gave you the money...that fee is called a cash disbursement "interchange fee."   It basically a fee a bank earns by disbursing cash to you....a fee not to be confused with the ATM Use/Admin fee mentioned just above.  This interchange fee is interlaced with how much of a foreign transaction fee your card-issuing bank may apply.    

 

Since this post is getting kinda long I'll make another post shortly further explaining that cash disbursement "interchange" fee.....a fee the bank handing you the cash earns from your card-issuing bank.
 

 

[Pib]

Whenever a person uses their debit or credit card to accomplish a purchase the merchant ends up paying the card-issuing bank an "interchange fee" usually in the 1 to 3% range depending on the service/product being purchased.  So, that's why you always hear about some merchants trying to charge a person extra if paying with a card.  And that's why just about every bank on Earth issues credit/debit cards as it earns them a fee every time you make a purchase.

 

However, when a person uses their debit/credit card for a "cash withdrawal" at an ATM or bank counter, the interchange fee works opposite to a purchase/point of sale transaction interchange.   The bank giving you the cash (called the Acquirer in below chart) earns an interchange fee from your card-issuing bank (called the Issuer in below chart). 

 

This card-network cash disbursement interchange fee flows directly to your card-issuing bank and it's totally up to your card-issuing bank whether they pass that fee along to you as part of their foreign transaction fee or absorb the fee.  For those who are lucky enough to have a no foreign transaction debit/credit card that means your card-issuing bank does not pass along any transactions fee(s) to you....your bank absorbs the fees....they do not add-on any fees. 

 

Below "Visa International Transaction Interchange Reimbursement Fee" chart shows what "cash disbursement interchange fee(s)" a bank earns by issuing/disbursing you cash when you use their ATM or do a counter withdrawal. Mastercard and other cards have a very, very similar fee.   DO NOT confuse this cash disbursement interchange fee with any direct ATM Use/Admin Fee the cash disbursing bank might charge you like the Thai bank Bt220 ATM fee or Bt180-200 Counter withdrawal fee some Thai banks charge. 

 

So, review this chart...and below it I give some examples of the total fee a bank would earn by issuing your cash from their counter or ATM.   Various combinations in the interchange fee structure.

 

 

Example for a Counter Withdrawal:

OK, you decide to use your foreign card to obtain cash at a Thai bank counter or ATM.   Let's say you withdraw Bt30,000 at the bank counter....and lets say the bank charges you a direct counter withdrawal fee of Bt200.   Since you are doing a counter withdrawal that's called a "Manual" Cash Disbursement in above chart which earns the Thai bank earns an interchange fee of $1.75 plus 0.33% of the Bt30,000.  0.33% of Bt30K is Bt99....add-on the $1.75 which is approx Bt54 at the current exchange rate and the Thai bank earned a Bt153 interchange fee.   Remember, this cash disbursement "interchange" fee flows directly to your card-issuing bank and it's up to your card-issuing bank if they pass it along to you as part of whatever foreign transaction fee they may apply.   And since the Thai bank also charged you a direct Bt200 fee they obtained a total of Bt353 in fees to disburse Bt30K to you at the counter.  

 

 

Now when it comes to cash disbursement from an "ATM" the interchange fee earned depends on whether or not an Access Fee (e.g.., Bt220) is charged.  Four different possible interchange fee combinations.   I just give a couple examples...let you guys calculate out the other possible options.

 

Example of ATM Withdrawal Using DCC and "Not" Charging an Access Fee

And when an ATM suckers a person into doing a DCC transaction with "no" access fee (i.e., no Bt220) then the Thai bank earns an interchange fee of 0.15% of the Bt30K.  But the bank also got an "indirect" fee from their lower DCC exchange rate or what they call mark-up.  If the local bank's DCC markup is say 3% that earns them an indirect fee on Bt30,000 of Bt900!!!!!....and that indirect fee is charged directly to you (not absorb by your card-issuing bank) which results in "effectively" Bt30,900 vs Bt30,000 charge hitting your card-issuing bank acct....it's still just Bt30K hitting your acct but due to the lower exchange rate it's effectively like Bt30,900. 

 

Example of ATM Withdrawal Using DCC and Charging an Access Fee

And let's say the Thai bank on that Bt30K withdrawal does charge an access fee (i.e., Bt220) with the same 3% markup DCC offer.  They get zero interchange fee but the earned an indirect fee of Bt900 plus Bt220 direct access fee for a total of Bt1,120.  

 

Yeap, DCC very good for the bank/merchant; very bad for the paying customer.  And if your card-issuing bank is one of the more fee-evil banks and also charges a foreign transaction fee simply because it's a foreign transaction in "any" currency, then you will get whacked again after just getting whacked by doing a DCC transaction.  

 

 

Edited July 5, 2020 by Pib

[SunsetT]

4 hours ago, Pib said:

Neither bank has ever attempted a DCC transaction.

I did not mean that they might be using the DCC rate but using their bank's own exchange rate which is also inferior to the Visa/Mastercard rate but not such a rip-off as the DCC.

 

4 hours ago, Pib said:

What determines the final exchange rate is the "card network "settlement" date" not to be confused with "actual transaction" date.

So why is there no 'settlement' period with CCard purchases? For these banks always seem to manage to use the exchange rate of the "actual transaction" date; i.e., the purchase date.

 

[Pib]

2 minutes ago, SunsetT said:

I did not mean that they might be using the DCC rate but using their bank's own exchange rate which is also inferior to the Visa/Mastercard rate but not such a rip-off as the DCC.

 

So why is there no 'settlement' period with CCard purchases? For these banks always seem to manage to use the exchange rate of the "actual transaction" date; i.e., the purchase date.

When a bank uses it's own rate that is a DCC transaction.

 

Credit cards do have a settlement period....as mentioned in my post it is usually one or two business days after the actual transaction date.  It depends on how fast the merchant/local processing bank completes their processing which is usually done in batches.