Where to find beef cattle buyers?

[Michael Hare]

I read with interest about the amount of purchased feed many of the above farmers are having to give to their cattle. This year we having record sales of grass seed in the SE Asia region. To date, we have sold 55,000 kg within Thailand, and 35 ,000 kg to Laos and 14,000 kg to Vietnam. At an average sowing sowing rate of 2 kg/rai, this seed should cover 52,000 rai. So there are farmers out there sowing down new pastures. The majority would be planting for cut-and-carry fresh grass, but some may be into grazing and making hay and silage. 

[kickstart]

5 hours ago, Hellboy75 said:

Is the acidosis caused by too much urea? Because a farm near ours the bloke fed his some of the mixture used to ferment the cassava neat to it a few litres 30 mins later it was on its side stomach bloating eyes rolling up he was lost well we've got some medicine that livestock told us to use on ours when they were scouring it changes the pH level of the stomach he told me to go ahead so jabbed it and 10 mins or so it was alot better when first stuck the needle in gas was just escaping for about a minute

 

6 hours ago, Hellboy75 said:

Is the acidosis caused by too much urea? Because a farm near ours the bloke fed his some of the mixture used to ferment the cassava neat to it a few litres 30 mins later it was on its side stomach bloating eyes rolling up he was lost well we've got some medicine that livestock told us to use on ours when they were scouring it changes the pH level of the stomach he told me to go ahead so jabbed it and 10 mins or so it was alot better when first stuck the needle in gas was just escaping for about a minute

First off what do you use urea for? ,do you mix it with the cassava waste to increase the protein vale of the cassava waste, around here it is feed without any additives,or what.

Acidosis is caused by to much of a feed ,like gut mun ,or concentrate , in the rumen like you said it lowers the pH of the rumen ,the good digestive microbes die off ,so the rumen stops working  ,then with the lower pH other bacteria invade the rumen so causing acidosis, and scouring normally  the animale will stop feeding ,stop's cudding, it takes a few days for the condition to appear and can cause blot.

What your neighbour had was  blot he used a trocar that he stuck in to the rumen to release the gas ,an old remedy was a bottle of vegetable oil given as a drench that will disperse the gas.

If the animal was heathy beforehand it must have been caused by mixture ,what ever that was.

Sometimes a piece of hard feed gets  stuck in the digestive track and gas can not escape from the rumen ,that will cause blot.l

Like I said Gut Mun is more trouble than it is worth ,just a very cheap feed to the Thai's    

 

[Tounge Thaied]

8 hours ago, Hellboy75 said:

My wife feeds hers first thing molasses mixed with water and salt then concentrate 14% protein mixed with brewers grain (gut beer) & cassava (gut man) which has been fermented for 2 weeks this is followed with quality grass at least 4 kilos then a small amount of rice straw this is given again later in the day without the molasses and no vitamins & minerals added to the food but a small amount molasses poured onto the grass, the last lot she sold she made 12,000 per head she estimates the amount of mixed food by guessing there weight and then feeding 2%

Thanks Kickstart and Hellboy for those detailed insights... that's A... lot to CHEW on. ha ha!!

 

Hellboy, could you ask your wife, or calculate a rough price per head on the food she is using... that would be helpful to have even a general real world number. What kind of cow? And just to confirm, you say she "made" 12,000 per head (quick edit: I just realized this must be the profit margin). Does that mean she cleared 12,000 per head total profit after all expenses? If not can you estimate what the actual profit was? And did she buy these cows young and how long did she rear this last lot? Great stuff fellas... eagerly waiting for your responses. 

Edited July 20, 2020 by Tounge Thaied

[Hellboy75]

4 minutes ago, kickstart said:

 

First off what do you use urea for? ,do you mix it with the cassava waste to increase the protein vale of the cassava waste, around here it is feed without any additives,or what.

Acidosis is caused by to much of a feed ,like gut mun ,or concentrate , in the rumen like you said it lowers the pH of the rumen ,the good digestive microbes die off ,so the rumen stops working  ,then with the lower pH other bacteria invade the rumen so causing acidosis, and scouring normally  the animale will stop feeding ,stop's cudding, it takes a few days for the condition to appear and can cause blot.

What your neighbour had was  blot he used a trocar that he stuck in to the rumen to release the gas ,an old remedy was a bottle of vegetable oil given as a drench that will disperse the gas.

If the animal was heathy beforehand it must have been caused by mixture ,what ever that was.

Sometimes a piece of hard feed gets  stuck in the digestive track and gas can not escape from the rumen ,that will cause blot.l

Like I said Gut Mun is more trouble than it is worth ,just a very cheap feed to the Thai's    

 

As far as I know they mix water and yeast leave it for an hour in another container they mix molasses, salt, I think brown sugar and urea then add the yeast mixture leave it 24 hours covered then add to the gut man cover and leave for 2 weeks but this neighbour fed several litres to his animal neat and admitted it wasn't the first time he'd done it

[Hellboy75]

13 hours ago, Tounge Thaied said:

Thanks Kickstart and Hellboy for those detailed insights... that's A... lot to CHEW on. ha ha!!

 

Hellboy, could you ask your wife, or calculate a rough price per head on the food she is using... that would be helpful to have even a general real world number. What kind of cow? And just to confirm, you say she "made" 12,000 per head (quick edit: I just realized this must be the profit margin). Does that mean she cleared 12,000 per head total profit after all expenses? If not can you estimate what the actual profit was? And did she buy these cows young and how long did she rear this last lot? Great stuff fellas... eagerly waiting for your responses. 

Yes 12,000 clear profit she was very happy, she only buys cattle with charolais blood and only males most come from Surin Sikoraphum occasionally finds a good local one or 2 the lot we're talking about was 4 months they averaged 480 kg each when sold, bought at between 1 and 2 years old because at the market sometimes its not the owner lots of young men and women wait at the gates offering services as sales people they will say its about 200 kg nobody knows the more u pay generally the bigger well fed it will be, she normally pays between 25 and 30,000 but like I say sometimes you get a good deal if using for premium beef they pay around 35,000. Feed per head varies on the amount of time she keeps them roughly around 5000 but it will depend on what you're buying where and what your mixture is

[Hellboy75]

13 hours ago, Hellboy75 said:

As far as I know they mix water and yeast leave it for an hour in another container they mix molasses, salt, I think brown sugar and urea then add the yeast mixture leave it 24 hours covered then add to the gut man cover and leave for 2 weeks but this neighbour fed several litres to his animal neat and admitted it wasn't the first time he'd done it

Here's a article on yeast fermented cassava pulp

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11250-020-02228-3

In regards to molasses I thought it was being used for energy as in sugars because protein and energy equate to animal growth with cassava the wife told me its also high fat and carbohydrate which is also energy or calories

[Tounge Thaied]

3 hours ago, Hellboy75 said:

Surin Sikoraphum

Surin Sikoraphum is not far from me... I'm in Buriram. My wife's grandfather and dad are originally from Surin. Well this is good success story. 4 months with a 12,000 baht profit is very good. I am going to explore this further it sure seems profitable based on what I was told at 8000 baht profit per head and now your story. Are you located in Surin Province? I sent you a private message... I would like to ask if your wife could get in touch, make a call with my wife. If she wouldn't mind educating my wife a bit on all of this. 

Edited July 21, 2020 by Tounge Thaied

[roger101]

On 7/16/2020 at 10:19 AM, Brunolem said:

There is still a lot of work to do in order to bring Thai beef to the level of quality of Australian beef. 

 

The meat here tends to be as tender as tire rubber... 

I find brining helps.

[kickstart]

3 hours ago, Hellboy75 said:

Here's a article on yeast fermented cassava pulp

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11250-020-02228-3

In regards to molasses I thought it was being used for energy as in sugars because protein and energy equate to animal growth with cassava the wife told me its also high fat and carbohydrate which is also energy or calories

When working out cattle rations you use the energy values of a food stuff ,when I was a student ,it was just energy you worked out ,can not remember working out protein values ,the other main thing is the DM dry matter ,how much water a food stuff has, and DMI dry matter intake how much real food an animal eats ,when the water is taken away .

I live in a big dairy cow area ,100 ton/day  is produced ,and the biggest problem by far is the infertility problem all caused by diet short of energy ,mainly due to rice straw being feed ,we have 16,18,and21% protein concentrate so no problems they. 

Re molasses the protein is only 4% but the  ME (a measurement of energy )is 12.7 ,grain maize is 14 ME.

Cassava has a ME of 12.6 but a protein of 2% ,but is high in starch/ carbohydrate and has a low dry matter,losts of water.

You have 2 feeds low in protein ,but high in energy,

Gut beer ,Brewers grains protein20% DM25% ME 10 but has no starch

Yeast , ME 11.7  protein 38.1

Your 14 % concentrate will have a ME of about 11.5-12.

Oil cakes , high fats like palm oil cake and soya been meal, sbm has a ME of 13.8 and a protein of 36% ,protein coming the the oil's.

Where dose all this lead us to? the vain of farmers and feed experts trying to work out rations that fit the system at a cost that is economical and balanced .

Molasses,like I said is 4% protein ,but is 8-10 baht /kg, for what it is,it is  expensive but Thai's like it ,I would just feed an extra kg of concentrate and do away with the molasses ,they is no fat in molasses or cassava ,watering down molasses  is just wasting the feed .

Like I said before up the grains ,for what it is a cheap feed.

That link to fermented cassava pulp looks ok ,but the DM would be a problem along with the low DM of the gut beer and molasses ,as my collage lecturer said cattle are full up with water from the fed ,not the feed its self ,in dairy cows that would limit milk production ,in beef cattle it would limit weight gain .   

I do not know who said it but if it ain't broken do not fix it ,your ration work for you  go for it . 

[Hellboy75]

42 minutes ago, kickstart said:

When working out cattle rations you use the energy values of a food stuff ,when I was a student ,it was just energy you worked out ,can not remember working out protein values ,the other main thing is the DM dry matter ,how much water a food stuff has, and DMI dry matter intake how much real food an animal eats ,when the water is taken away .

I live in a big dairy cow area ,100 ton/day  is produced ,and the biggest problem by far is the infertility problem all caused by diet short of energy ,mainly due to rice straw being feed ,we have 16,18,and21% protein concentrate so no problems they. 

Re molasses the protein is only 4% but the  ME (a measurement of energy )is 12.7 ,grain maize is 14 ME.

Cassava has a ME of 12.6 but a protein of 2% ,but is high in starch/ carbohydrate and has a low dry matter,losts of water.

You have 2 feeds low in protein ,but high in energy,

Gut beer ,Brewers grains protein20% DM25% ME 10 but has no starch

Yeast , ME 11.7  protein 38.1

Your 14 % concentrate will have a ME of about 11.5-12.

Oil cakes , high fats like palm oil cake and soya been meal, sbm has a ME of 13.8 and a protein of 36% ,protein coming the the oil's.

Where dose all this lead us to? the vain of farmers and feed experts trying to work out rations that fit the system at a cost that is economical and balanced .

Molasses,like I said is 4% protein ,but is 8-10 baht /kg, for what it is,it is  expensive but Thai's like it ,I would just feed an extra kg of concentrate and do away with the molasses ,they is no fat in molasses or cassava ,watering down molasses  is just wasting the feed .

Like I said before up the grains ,for what it is a cheap feed.

That link to fermented cassava pulp looks ok ,but the DM would be a problem along with the low DM of the gut beer and molasses ,as my collage lecturer said cattle are full up with water from the fed ,not the feed its self ,in dairy cows that would limit milk production ,in beef cattle it would limit weight gain .   

I do not know who said it but if it ain't broken do not fix it ,your ration work for you  go for it . 

Thanks for the info again very interesting, yes she is happy with the results she's getting but is always looking to improve results and cut costs. In respects to selling the cattle the professor she's in contact with messaged today saying the big farms started to transport to Pakse today so hopefully not long before they start buying again, he sent 74 pages of documents the other day to her relating to cattle the business in Thailand including his own recipe for what I can tell to be similar to silage but 21% protein with a step by step photo guide he says it works out at 4-5 bht a kilo can be fed to all animals, its all in Thai so I only know from what she tells me as she slowly works her way through it

[IsaanAussie]

Just now, Hellboy75 said:

including his own recipe for what I can tell to be similar to silage

Any chance your wife would share that document with us? 

[kickstart]

2 hours ago, Hellboy75 said:

Thanks for the info again very interesting, yes she is happy with the results she's getting but is always looking to improve results and cut costs. In respects to selling the cattle the professor she's in contact with messaged today saying the big farms started to transport to Pakse today so hopefully not long before they start buying again, he sent 74 pages of documents the other day to her relating to cattle the business in Thailand including his own recipe for what I can tell to be similar to silage but 21% protein with a step by step photo guide he says it works out at 4-5 bht a kilo can be fed to all animals, its all in Thai so I only know from what she tells me as she slowly works her way through it

As IA said would be an interesting document .

Not certain if I understood this correct , I take it that is your fermented cassava waste you are writing about.

But you can not compare it to silage ,they are two very  different  beasts ,cassava waste is a by-product. and silage is a forage feed .

Silage normally is about 8-10 % protein grass or maize, even the best Dwarf  Nappier grass silage is no more than 16% protein. 

[Hellboy75]

21 minutes ago, kickstart said:

As IA said would be an interesting document .

Not certain if I understood this correct , I take it that is your fermented cassava waste you are writing about.

But you can not compare it to silage ,they are two very  different  beasts ,cassava waste is a by-product. and silage is a forage feed .

Silage normally is about 8-10 % protein grass or maize, even the best Dwarf  Nappier grass silage is no more than 16% protein. 

Seems either I was wrong or she gave me wrong info what your saying is correct around 8% with straw and 10% with cassava the third to last photo relates to cassava pulp second to last cassava peel and the last is grass

[IsaanAussie]

Just now, kickstart said:

As IA said would be an interesting document .

Not certain if I understood this correct , I take it that is your fermented cassava waste you are writing about.

But you can not compare it to silage ,they are two very  different  beasts ,cassava waste is a by-product. and silage is a forage feed .

Silage normally is about 8-10 % protein grass or maize, even the best Dwarf  Nappier grass silage is no more than 16% protein. 

This is what gets me going. Ensiling or fermenting both are processes that use biology to break down material into a more "digestable" form. I know stuff all about cows but can attest to the FCR gains in pigs by introducing the right gut flora. There is a riddle here that I want to solve. 

[IsaanAussie]

Here is the challenge to all farmers. Farmgate prices have always been middle man manipulated low. The more inputs a farmer buys the less is his profit potential. All you can do is minimise outside cost. The industrial giants of ag run the game here and globally. Before I leave this mortal coil I would like to poke them in the eye just once. I would get even more satisfaction by dropping farmgate prices and still increasing profit.

[Tounge Thaied]

1 hour ago, IsaanAussie said:

Here is the challenge to all farmers. Farmgate prices have always been middle man manipulated low. The more inputs a farmer buys the less is his profit potential. All you can do is minimise outside cost. The industrial giants of ag run the game here and globally. Before I leave this mortal coil I would like to poke them in the eye just once. I would get even more satisfaction by dropping farmgate prices and still increasing profit.

Hellboy's wife seem to be successful enough... and her results are similar to what I have been told. Now set me straight here please, to me the bottom line is if you can get per head profits of at least 4000 (minimum) I was told they are getting 8000 per head and hellboy's wife is getting 12,000 per head, then it may be worth the time and investment if someone wanted to scale this up a bit? Scale up... meaning take a bit of land and creating a "Feed Lot" operation of 10, 20, 30 cows? Worth the investment? Worth the time and effort?

Edited July 21, 2020 by Tounge Thaied

[Hellboy75]

7 hours ago, Tounge Thaied said:

Hellboy's wife seem to be successful enough... and her results are similar to what I have been told. Now set me straight here please, to me the bottom line is if you can get per head profits of at least 4000 (minimum) I was told they are getting 8000 per head and hellboy's wife is getting 12,000 per head, then it may be worth the time and investment if someone wanted to scale this up a bit? Scale up... meaning take a bit of land and creating a "Feed Lot" operation of 10, 20, 30 cows? Worth the investment? Worth the time and effort?

I here the words 3000 bht per head mentioned by alot of Thais but from what I see they're not weighing or measuring the rations and have never bothered to try and learn or even change methods, I think 4000 per head is definitely achievable my wife has never got less than 7000 per head, you ask whether it's worth the time and effort we'll it's alot of time and alot of effort only you can decide if it's worth it. We spent alot of money setting it up and that's trying to do it cheaply using second hand good condition materials in places on the shed but also little things like chaff cutters will you need to dig a well or a pond prepare well in advance planting grasses if you've got the space in a few months they will crop the rice start planning to have straw bales made ask other farms with no cattle if u can have their's and have a structure to store it I've found if you have to buy it it can double in price from around September. Read every bit of information you can find online download pdfs also your wife lots of info in Thai and English also visit local farms doing the same thing see what they're doing right and wrong visit cattle markets in your province and neighbouring one's so you can get an idea for costing see what type of animal you want and what price you can get them for. 

[kickstart]

11 hours ago, IsaanAussie said:

This is what gets me going. Ensiling or fermenting both are processes that use biology to break down material into a more "digestable" form. I know stuff all about cows but can attest to the FCR gains in pigs by introducing the right gut flora. There is a riddle here that I want to solve. 

The problem is pigs are a mono gastric animal ,they have one stomach in simple terms you feed X kg of feed from a bag ,and the pig will put on Y weight with a FCR of about 3-1.

Cattle having 4 stomachs/compartments is a different ball game, with cattle you need 2/3 different feeds all balanced together to make the diet work, we are talking Thailand where in  our country's grass alone can fatten cattle, and it is cost effective  ,here in Thailand not quite mission impossible but almost ,when I was milking  cows in the UK , a feed rep .would analyse our silage for protein ME DM ,we knew what the ME, protein of the concentrate  was, and other feed stuffs ,and he would come back and say feed A and  B at so many (kg) and you will get Y back in milk ,and it worked .

Here nothing ,no formulated rations you have a 16% concentrate you feed at your will, and rice straw ,and some cut grass when available ,and often the local vets have to sort the mess our ,when it goes all wrong ,when the cattle start and get stomach problems........which is often.

 

This fermented cassava waste, did not realize you used rice straw, it is an upgrade? from something I did 20 years ago ,by using rice straw, urea and water ,mix it together cover it for 3 weeks open the clamp and fed  it to the cattle ,the idea was to improve the quality of the rice straw ,basic rice straw is 3-4% protein,by fermenting it this way increases the protein  to 5-6%, also with the fermenting proses it helps to brake down the cellulose in the rice straw ,making the final product more digestible,and the cow would also get more out of the rice straw .

It was never popular main reason making it, a lot of labour involved  took time big farms had to have 3 clamps, one feeding one making, and one fermenting ,and the cost  what was for only an average feed was also high.

I worked it out the OP's fermented cassava waste it  is about  3.16 baht/kg, putting rice straw in at 35 baht /bale , molasses 8 baht/kg ,the price  of rice straw now,i t would be cheaper when rice straw is 25baht/bale at the end of the rice season.

So, say 2.50-3.20 baht/kg for a feed that is 8,25% protein will have a low DM dry matter ,and takes a lot of labour, buying all the ingredients .in my book not worth it.

Something  I leaned in the uk keep the job simple is the best way ,if I was the OP grow some good quality  grass ,Mulato II grass ,if grown and managed well can give you a LWG, Live Weight Gain of .5 kg /day/head, with some concentrate and brewers grains , and with your Charolais X cattle you would easily get your 1 kg/day growth rate ,and your brought in feed costs would be lower 

 

  


 

[Hellboy75]

55 minutes ago, kickstart said:

The problem is pigs are a mono gastric animal ,they have one stomach in simple terms you feed X kg of feed from a bag ,and the pig will put on Y weight with a FCR of about 3-1.

Cattle having 4 stomachs/compartments is a different ball game, with cattle you need 2/3 different feeds all balanced together to make the diet work, we are talking Thailand where in  our country's grass alone can fatten cattle, and it is cost effective  ,here in Thailand not quite mission impossible but almost ,when I was milking  cows in the UK , a feed rep .would analyse our silage for protein ME DM ,we knew what the ME, protein of the concentrate  was, and other feed stuffs ,and he would come back and say feed A and  B at so many (kg) and you will get Y back in milk ,and it worked .

Here nothing ,no formulated rations you have a 16% concentrate you feed at your will, and rice straw ,and some cut grass when available ,and often the local vets have to sort the mess our ,when it goes all wrong ,when the cattle start and get stomach problems........which is often.

 

This fermented cassava waste, did not realize you used rice straw, it is an upgrade? from something I did 20 years ago ,by using rice straw, urea and water ,mix it together cover it for 3 weeks open the clamp and fed  it to the cattle ,the idea was to improve the quality of the rice straw ,basic rice straw is 3-4% protein,by fermenting it this way increases the protein  to 5-6%, also with the fermenting proses it helps to brake down the cellulose in the rice straw ,making the final product more digestible,and the cow would also get more out of the rice straw .

It was never popular main reason making it, a lot of labour involved  took time big farms had to have 3 clamps, one feeding one making, and one fermenting ,and the cost  what was for only an average feed was also high.

I worked it out the OP's fermented cassava waste it  is about  3.16 baht/kg, putting rice straw in at 35 baht /bale , molasses 8 baht/kg ,the price  of rice straw now,i t would be cheaper when rice straw is 25baht/bale at the end of the rice season.

So, say 2.50-3.20 baht/kg for a feed that is 8,25% protein will have a low DM dry matter ,and takes a lot of labour, buying all the ingredients .in my book not worth it.

Something  I leaned in the uk keep the job simple is the best way ,if I was the OP grow some good quality  grass ,Mulato II grass ,if grown and managed well can give you a LWG, Live Weight Gain of .5 kg /day/head, with some concentrate and brewers grains , and with your Charolais X cattle you would easily get your 1 kg/day growth rate ,and your brought in feed costs would be lower 

 

  


 

I didn't realise such price differences on certain items I thought they'd be standard country wide late last year we had 500 bales made 20 kg a bale at 15 bht each I have heard you can get them at 12 bht too buy now maybe 20 bht and molasses we can get from a factory for 6 bht a kg

[IsaanAussie]

Side note to KS, FCR for pigs needs to be much lower than 3:1. Mine was at a maximum of 2.4.

We had our rice straw baled for 15 baht a bale. But you still have to move and store the bales which is an additional cost. Most Thai farmers I talk to forget these "overhead" costs and claim profits that are inflated.

[kickstart]

3 hours ago, Hellboy75 said:

I didn't realise such price differences on certain items I thought they'd be standard country wide late last year we had 500 bales made 20 kg a bale at 15 bht each I have heard you can get them at 12 bht too buy now maybe 20 bht and molasses we can get from a factory for 6 bht a kg

 

3 hours ago, IsaanAussie said:

Side note to KS, FCR for pigs needs to be much lower than 3:1. Mine was at a maximum of 2.4.

We had our rice straw baled for 15 baht a bale. But you still have to move and store the bales which is an additional cost. Most Thai farmers I talk to forget these "overhead" costs and claim profits that are inflated.

The FCR for pigs I was working from memory ,and did a Google to check that said 3:1 well out of touch.

I was not thinking that your rice straw was grown by your selves, or is  very local with  low haulage costs .

Around here 80% of straw is brought in from other provinces entailing a 150-200 km round trip, most straw merchants have they own balers ,and that has to be transported out then back home.

The photo is our new way of transporting bales ,getting more of these trailers in the area now one trailer can carry up to 400 bales at about 17 kg /bale no 20 kg bales around here, plus a few to top up on the trailer about 7 ton in total, as IA said a high percentage of cost is in haulage .

Some merchants by in straw at the end of the rice season ,cheap  store it then sell it  now when they is no or very little rice harvesting, at a good mark up . 

Our molasses, the mill is only 16 kg from here ,they have they own plant for making ethanol alcohol,all going for gaohol ,they sell some molasses  on to outsiders ,hence the higher price, one of my beef cows calved and was not eating well .so I brought 10kg of molasses from a locale seller 100 baht ,the other bigger seller sells at 8 baht/kg. 

[Hellboy75]

51 minutes ago, kickstart said:

 

The FCR for pigs I was working from memory ,and did a Google to check that said 3:1 well out of touch.

I was not thinking that your rice straw was grown by your selves, or is  very local with  low haulage costs .

Around here 80% of straw is brought in from other provinces entailing a 150-200 km round trip, most straw merchants have they own balers ,and that has to be transported out then back home.

The photo is our new way of transporting bales ,getting more of these trailers in the area now one trailer can carry up to 400 bales at about 17 kg /bale no 20 kg bales around here, plus a few to top up on the trailer about 7 ton in total, as IA said a high percentage of cost is in haulage .

Some merchants by in straw at the end of the rice season ,cheap  store it then sell it  now when they is no or very little rice harvesting, at a good mark up . 

Our molasses, the mill is only 16 kg from here ,they have they own plant for making ethanol alcohol,all going for gaohol ,they sell some molasses  on to outsiders ,hence the higher price, one of my beef cows calved and was not eating well .so I brought 10kg of molasses from a locale seller 100 baht ,the other bigger seller sells at 8 baht/kg. 

I haven't seen one of those trailers I hope I don't get stuck behind one ???? I think each year the price of straw might go up as seems to be more and more droughts so rice crops will be down especially in certain areas definitely money in it if you can store enough of it

[IsaanAussie]

In my case the rice harvester finished and a local guy started baling my straw by mistake. Someone told him he had baled my straw without a deal and he came to ask for the work. Happy to avoid the queue and say yes at the going rate. Then a local guy and truck to bring the 300 bales to my pig sty and then stack them in the loft. so right now they owe me about 20 baht each. 

They are in Sisaket and I have no immediate use for the bales, make me an offer and come get them. 

[kickstart]

 

Utilization of Yeast Fermented Cassava Pulp - วารสารเกษตรพระ ...

paj.rmu.ac.th › home › journal_file

 

Quiet day, found the above, trial was done on dairy heifers ,should work on beef cattle, shows promise ,

sulfa, is added to help with the digestion of the urea,

One for IA, even found a research paper about feeding cassava pulp to pigs, as part of they diet  which reminded me of when I was on the dairy farm we used to have a lot of waste milk especially during the calving season ,manager had an idea, done it before,we brought in half dozen young pigs, and fed them the waste milk and brewers grains ,the farm brought in a hundred ton of grains a year ,so it did not miss a few (kg) ,and did the pigs grow.

The pork from the pigs was some of the best I had tasted for a good few years 

[IsaanAussie]

KS can you send a link to a Layman's english version of how you make that fermented brew. I failed to understand the rocket scientist version. LOL But I agree that is interesting stuff.

I will have a dig around the web myself. There was a lot of stuff on cassava based diets using EM fermentation etc for pigs but with six different diets needed for farrow to finish I gave up. 

Ideally for beef cattle, I would like to be able to produce storable feed so decent volume could be made at once. For instance harvest forage every month then process the lot. 

[Hellboy75]

15 hours ago, kickstart said:

 

Utilization of Yeast Fermented Cassava Pulp - วารสารเกษตรพระ ...

paj.rmu.ac.th › home › journal_file

 

Quiet day, found the above, trial was done on dairy heifers ,should work on beef cattle, shows promise ,

sulfa, is added to help with the digestion of the urea,

One for IA, even found a research paper about feeding cassava pulp to pigs, as part of they diet  which reminded me of when I was on the dairy farm we used to have a lot of waste milk especially during the calving season ,manager had an idea, done it before,we brought in half dozen young pigs, and fed them the waste milk and brewers grains ,the farm brought in a hundred ton of grains a year ,so it did not miss a few (kg) ,and did the pigs grow.

The pork from the pigs was some of the best I had tasted for a good few years 

All good info, that paper is written by the same professor my wife is in contact with who wrote the recipes I posted earlier. Thanks

[kickstart]

5 hours ago, IsaanAussie said:

KS can you send a link to a Layman's english version of how you make that fermented brew. I failed to understand the rocket scientist version. LOL But I agree that is interesting stuff.

I will have a dig around the web myself. There was a lot of stuff on cassava based diets using EM fermentation etc for pigs but with six different diets needed for farrow to finish I gave up. 

Ideally for beef cattle, I would like to be able to produce storable feed so decent volume could be made at once. For instance harvest forage every month then process the lot. 

For Yeast fermented  cassava,it makes a poor quality feed cassava waste, in to something  worth feeding, but the first thing I would look at is the logistics ,can you get cassava waste where you are ,like I said around here it is 60-90 stang/kg and 80% of that cost is haulage ,would you like 3 ton of the stuff tipped in your yard, then it has to be bagged or clamped , 2 places near here sell it in 40 kg bags about 50 baht/bag ,a lot better than a big load, then can you get molasses where you are and yeast we live in a big dairy area and without a lot of asking about I would struggle to find yeast ,probable a job for Mr Google.

Producing a storable feed would be easier, the photo is what we do, one is maize silage,  the other Nappier grass,we have 1 1/2 rie of Nappier grass and can/have made 350 bags of silage /year, in 3 cuts, but  not last or this year, drought's .

We use Nappier grass as we have limited acreage ,when we can grow it well it gives us a good feed ,and  we do cut it by hand , if we had more land ,other grasses would work ,but would need some machinery for cutting a grass strimmer would do ,but then it has to be picked up .

The maize silage ,the plants come from our next door neighbour ,he had the cobs and gave us the plants ,the Nappier grass  we made 3 weeks ago ,not good quality, plants were  old first cut this year ,we cut it in the hope that the new growth will make some good silage when the rains come ,still waiting for some proper rain.

The plastic bags we get locally 56baht/kg ,with about 17bags per kg,I use 2 bags new one and an old one ,helps prevent holes and spoilt silage .

I have looked into other ways of storing grass silage ,the 200 litre plastic drums work well, have seen it done ,one drum will hold the equivalent 2-3 plastic bags ,they can be moved around with ease, but at 500 baht each, round here, not cheap , and I know you only buy them once. 

I have thought about the big concrete rings ,2 stacked on up would work ,or get a local  guy in to build a block clamp, have seen the concrete floor panels used laid on they side sacked up for storing cassava waste, but I would doubt there  weight-bearing ability for silage .   

[IsaanAussie]

Cassava waste is sold locally and we are trialing growing mulato II, ruzi and guinea as well as israel and some napier. I need to get some lessons on ensiling and fermenting. I have 6 block sided compost bins about 1.5 cubic metres each which I could use. Bags and molasses no problem, have seen yeast but need to check on type. All seems doable. 

[IsaanAussie]

BIL is buying a pregnant cow and a young heifer. So it looks like we are starting, albeit a bit premature for me. 

[Michael Hare]

20 hours ago, Hellboy75 said:

All good info, that paper is written by the same professor my wife is in contact with who wrote the recipes I posted earlier. Thanks

It is good to know that your wife Hellboy75 is in contact with a professor who can give her advice on feeding her cattle. Out of interest, if I may ask, is there a "professor" that gives her advice on how to manage her grass? Advice like which grass species to plant, how to cut to get optimum yield and quality, the interval beteween cuts, the amount and frequency of fertiliser to apply. And any advice on planting forage legumes with high protein content?