I just lost 10 KG. It was EASY

[fredwiggy]

Just now, Tagged said:

There is a thumb of rule, and that is you do not need supplements if your diet is optimal! Most people do not need suplements, but are to lazy or to stupid to do the ground work to make sure they do it propely. Balanced diet will always beat any made up complicated diet like keto, unless You do it for a short time of period. I shake my head over the new religious above here. I do understand the curiosity behind it, but from there to not understand this is only for a short period, and keep on living the religion, is far beyond my understanding. Well, some people need aa  for rest of their life to survive, others are fine by just doing the basics. 

 

Training heavy weights is good for your metabolism as long you stimulate your testosteoron, but at once you reach an surten comfortable level, you have to continue pushing harder to maintain it. Therefor do it naturally with basic high protein food, and balanced with other things. Basic is the key word and understand what basic is. 

True in a way. If you eat healthy food, and a variety, you will get all the nutrients you need. I'm just stating that he is a hard gainer, and the only way to gain extra weight, and you don't want extra fat, is weight training and more calories. Calories coming from a protein drink are just extra healthy calories he needs.

[DrTuner]

3 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

True in a way. If you eat healthy food, and a variety, you will get all the nutrients you need. I'm just stating that he is a hard gainer, and the only way to gain extra weight, and you don't want extra fat, is weight training and more calories. Calories coming from a protein drink are just extra healthy calories he needs.

Just to give an idea, my calory intake while weight training was 3,000-3,500 per day. I simply could not have eaten that much without bursting. So I had a 2.5L mixer of ready mixed protein shake in the fridge that I'd consume during the day. 

Edited August 24, 2020 by DrTuner

[Tagged]

3 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

True in a way. If you eat healthy food, and a variety, you will get all the nutrients you need. I'm just stating that he is a hard gainer, and the only way to gain extra weight, and you don't want extra fat, is weight training and more calories. Calories coming from a protein drink are just extra healthy calories he needs.

I also do use a whey protein shake of Im on a hurry or travelling, and its more easy to make sure you get coverd your daily needs. If you do not start doing to basics from beginning, you will never learn what the basics is. When you reach a level, only one person in here as far I know do as a bodybuilder, you need to supplement your daily needs, yes, but for us normal people at tv, no. We do not do any executive training like Arnold did, 5 - 6 hours a day. We do 1 - 2 hours a day? I do about 2 hours 5-6 days a week + walking Dog 1-2 hours a day. 

[Tagged]

5 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

Just to give an idea, my calory intake while weight training was 3,000-3,500 per day. I simply could not have eaten that much without bursting. So I had a 2.5L mixer of ready mixed protein shake in the fridge that I'd consume during the day. 

How many gram of protein pr kg body weight did you take? 

[fredwiggy]

Just now, Tagged said:

I also do use a whey protein shake of Im on a hurry or travelling, and its more easy to make sure you get coverd your daily needs. If you do not start doing to basics from beginning, you will never learn what the basics is. When you reach a level, only one person in here as far I know do as a bodybuilder, you need to supplement your daily needs, yes, but for us normal people at tv, no. We do not do any executive training like Arnold did, 5 - 6 hours a day. We do 1 - 2 hours a day? I do about 2 hours 5-6 days a week + walking Dog 1-2 hours a day. 

If you can't do 2 body parts in 2 hours, you are training too long and without enough intensity. All you need as far as weight training is 6 hours a week. Chest/back, shoulders/arms, and legs. You can do each body part twice a week for less than 12 hours and when you get older, as most here are, it's better to train more with less weight than less with more weight. If you train with weights, you are a bodybuilder. Maybe not a competitive one, but a bodybuilder none the less.

[fredwiggy]

Just now, DrTuner said:

Just to give an idea, my calory intake while weight training was 3,000-3,500 per day. I simply could not have eaten that much without bursting. So I had a 2.5L mixer of ready mixed protein shake in the fridge that I'd consume during the day. 

I don't think I've ever eaten more than 2500 a day. I eat 5 small meals a day, and not too much at any one except for breakfast and dinner.

[DrTuner]

5 minutes ago, Tagged said:

How many gram of protein pr kg body weight did you take? 

Alas, it was 20 years ago, I have forgotten. I do remember having calculated it all pretty carefully and followed a training program very closely and it did work, although I felt bloated all the time. Like I mentioned, I started at 56kg and ended up as 62, I must've had only a couple of percent of body fat at the start. Wanted to get laid more so I thought I'd bulk up a bit. That worked, too.

[Tagged]

7 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

If you can't do 2 body parts in 2 hours, you are training too long and without enough intensity. All you need as far as weight training is 6 hours a week. Chest/back, shoulders/arms, and legs. You can do each body part twice a week for less than 12 hours and when you get older, as most here are, it's better to train more with less weight than less with more weight. If you train with weights, you are a bodybuilder. Maybe not a competitive one, but a bodybuilder none the less.

I do warm up 30 minutes, I do a basic Everyday body movement Program, includes core training for another 20 - 25 minutes, and weight training with 3 split program. I also do some boxing at heavy bag. 

 

I eat 2 500 cal pr day now 5 days a week, and in the weekends, pushing easy 3 200 +

 

Actually went down from 85 to 83 now, and will see if I make 80, but Im comfortable at 85. Just trying now since this thread started for fun of it, to see if I can make my 6 pack again. 

 

[Tagged]

4 minutes ago, DrTuner said:

Alas, it was 20 years ago, I have forgotten. I do remember having calculated it all pretty carefully and followed a training program very closely and it did work, although I felt bloated all the time. Like I mentioned, I started at 56kg and ended up as 62, I must've had only a couple of percent of body fat at the start. Wanted to get laid more so I thought I'd bulk up a bit. That worked, too.

Same as me, started at 60 kg, went up to 68kg and then 72, and 8 years later 78 kg. I also used amino acids, proteins, what ever, because I could not eat enough back then, and mostly due to I did not know better. We had all this muscle magazines getting the info from. Not healthy at all. 

 

However now, we are 50 +- and even some is passed 70 and above, and we just need to look at food, and we gaining ???? a bit different from young wild and reckless and restless as top fueled with natural hormones. 

[SePl]

23 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

Most people may find it hard to believe that carbs are NOT an essential macronutrient; only good fats and protein are essential for metabolic health.  It is simply a nutritional myth that carbs are essential if you look at genuine metabolic science.

 

True ! this is what nobody understands, and even some nutritionists are so idiots that they can't think out of the box, so they keep repeating the BS learnt at school or univ (if they attended any to reach this level of stupidity).

 

Carbs are already everywhere, so no need to add more, no need to eat bread, rice, pasta, cereals, AT ALL.

 

And then the ones who know nothing will keep arguing...

 

I gave up trying to teach them anything that could make them smarter !

 

[WaveHunter]

8 hours ago, fredwiggy said:

Another one assuming they know someone by a few postings of links, and that they are right. I did not say low carbs are dangerous. I said that a diet with none or almost none , with high fats, is. ....

Seriously Fredwiggy, I'm not looking for fight.  It's obvious you know a great deal about having a healthy lifestyle and it sounds like you like to help others achieve the same thing so my kudos to you. 

 

However, not everybody is fortunate enough to have metabolisms that can endure high levels of carbohydrates.  There is an epidemic of obesity and Diabetes type 2 in the world right now and it is a result of excessive dietary carbohydrates in recommended diets for the vast majority of the public.

 

If you follow science-based metabolic research over the last decade, there is an unquestionable causal link between excessive amounts of dietary carbohydrates and metabolic syndromes such as obesity and DT2 in the majority of the population.  Excessive carbs cause a huge release of insulin in every body.  Some can tolerate this and some can not.  Over time, most people will suffer from desensitized insulin receptors, and that's when some very bad things start to happen, though most people are completely unaware of it.  They start to get the classic "beer belly" and just shrug it off to getting older.  Well there is nothing natural about getting a "middle aged spread".  IMO, that is a classic sign of "metabolic syndrome", an inflammatory state that is a disease state!

 

In the standard American Diet, people are indoctrinated into believing they must eat 3 meals a day to be healthy (i.e.: breakfast is the most important meal of the day is total bunk!), and then they also snack between meals.  They eat from the moment they wake up until the moment they go to bed which means insulin receptors are just flooded with insulin without reprieve.

 

The result is that those receptors become habituated over time and eventually fail to work properly.  Once they no longer work effectively, the human body looses the ability to access and use stored body fat.  The body then can only store fat, and over time more and more fat is stored on the body, but more importantly around the liver, and that's when bad things begin to happen.  For many people, they are not even aware there is a problem until it's too late to reverse the effects.  There is absolutely no question that this happens.  Clinical studies prove it, but all you really have to do is look at a person who must inject insulin to deal with diabetes, and you can see that they just keep getting fatter and fatter from the insulin injections.  

 

So, unquestionably, excessive amounts of dietary carbohydrates are incredibly dangerous to health.  That is simply beyond debate.

 

You seem to think that low fat nutrition is healthy nutrition but (for the majority of the public) I disagree strongly and I'll tell you why.  In order to have a low fat diet, you must increase carbohydrates.  The body needs fuel to run and it can only get it from fats or dietary carbs.  If you cut one of them down, you must increase the other.  

 

The advice from mainstream medicine for the last fifty years has been a diet as you propose, that is low in fat.  Dietary fat has been absolutely vilified, yet there is absolutely no clinical studies that really prove a CAUSAL link between fatty foods and coronary or metabolic diseases!

 

Now for the curious anomaly:  If a low fat diet is so healthy, why has obesity and Diabetes exploded to epidemic levels during the same timeframe that government guidelines advocated low fat nutrition?  Is it merely a coincidence, or could there possible be a causal relationship?

 

Just think about it: When you go into a supermarket these days it's almost impossible to avoid purchasing processed foods for most people.  Almost every single processed food contains high fructose corn syrup (HFCS), even foods that you'd least expect to find them in like salad dressing.  HFCS compared to regular fructose is like comparing "Crack" to cocaine!  Why is it found in almost every processed food?  The reason, particularly in the case of "low fat" processed foods, is that when you take out the fat, it becomes unpalatable, so HFCS is added to bring back the flavor.  HFCS is a concentrated form of carbohydrate, and most people don't even realize it's in the food they are buying, so people are getting massive amounts of carbs in their diet, on top of the ones they know contain carbs like bread, pizza, sugared drinks, etc... .  No wonder there is a explosive epidemic in obesity and DT2!

 

So, do you really think a low fat diet is all that healthy?  I sure don't!  I know you are probably going to say that people could be more discerning in what they buy in supermarkets but for the vast majority of the population, they don't have that luxury and can only buy what is affordable, and that is usually the processed food products.

 

What's even worse is that the giant processed food industry uses a lot of tricks to disguise the nutritional information of their food products making them seem healthier than they really are, and adding ingredients to increase craving so people eat more than they should.

 

The simple truth is that the "healthy low fat diet" is a total myth, and as far as the food industry is concerned, a total scam! 

 

Contrarily, foods rich in essential and healthy fats like red beef, eggs, and butter are vilified, with absolutely no legitimate scientific proof that they are unhealthy to eat.  The only proof offered by those who say they are bad are anecdotal correlative studies.  There is not one single clinical study that proves a causal relationship between fatty foods and negative health outcomes...not a single one. 

 

Cholesterol in high fat foods is often touted as a villain but the simple fact is that the body naturally produces far more cholesterol daily than could possible be consumed through the diet.  Even if you were to eat a dozen eggs in one sitting, you'd be getting far less additional cholesterol than the body naturally produces in a day.  What's more, though most don't even realize it...cholesterol is essential for many of the body's metabolic processes, including the production of hormones, bile and vitamin D!

 

The bottom line is that what constitutes good nutrition varies greatly from one person to another.  There are some people that can eat anything they want for their whole lives and live a healthy and happy life, but for the vast majority of the population, obesity and metabolic syndromes are a very real danger.  Science has proven beyond a shadow of doubt that excessive carbohydrates play a significant role in metabolic-related diseases.  However, to date, science has NOT proven that low or even no carbohydrates in the diet is a danger to good health in an otherwise healthy individual.

 

Just as you seem to prosper on your diet, I also prosper on mine.  I have been practicing a Keto lifestyle for several years now, limiting my dietary carbs to under 50 grams per day and have suffered no ill effects as evidenced by near perfect blood tests which I have done twice a year.  What's more, because I am fully keto adapted now (meaning that metabolic pathways for fat burning are highly efficient), I can undergo my passion for rigorous bike rides (hill climbing) without "bonking" (no sudden loss of energy due to glycogen depletion), and all without the need for sports gels or energy drinks.  And I should add that cycling is one of the main reasons I do Keto; it's not to lose weight but to be able to have more endurance, though being lighter in the saddle is always a plus.

 

I do want to ask you about your body fat percentage.  You were at 4% body fat?  Seriously that sounds unhealthy!  I'm not criticizing you but am just curious why so low?  I mean, elite competitive cyclist are known for low BF% since weight is a serious detriments to cycling speed where even a few grams can be the difference between a win and a loss, but I've never heard of one that was below 6% and that was in a junior racer (under 18).  Just curious why you would desire that low of a BF%.

 

Anyway, I wish you the best.  I hope you realize I'm not trying to tell you that you are wrong about your own nutritional strategies.  I only am saying you should not make blanket judgements that low carb is a bad thing for all people.

 

Peace ????

 

Edited August 24, 2020 by WaveHunter

[WaveHunter]

43 minutes ago, SePl said:

 

True ! this is what nobody understands, and even some nutritionists are so idiots that they can't think out of the box, so they keep repeating the BS learnt at school or univ (if they attended any to reach this level of stupidity).

 

Carbs are already everywhere, so no need to add more, no need to eat bread, rice, pasta, cereals, AT ALL.

 

And then the ones who know nothing will keep arguing...

 

I gave up trying to teach them anything that could make them smarter !

 

I have to admit it took me a long time to accept this.  As a recreational but still very competitive cyclist, I grew up on carb-loading, sports gels, and energy drinks.  I was really into the whole supplement myths (I.e.: scams).  Protein drinks was another one of those scams until I realized that most of them were a total waste of money if you just eat a sound diet of healthy foods.

 

It's really hard sometimes to dispel these kind of myths because they become so ingrained in mainstream thinking, and because they often are touted by organizations that you feel like you should be able to trust like the American Heart Association and the American Diabetes Association.  Sadly, such organizations are either grossly misinformed or succumbing to the power of big corporations of the processed food and the pharmaceutical industries.  Sadly, it's probably both!

[fredwiggy]

18 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

Seriously Fredwiggy, I'm not looking for fight.  It's obvious you know a great deal about having a healthy lifestyle and it sounds like you like to help others achieve the same thing so my kudos to you. 

 

However, not everybody is fortunate enough to have metabolisms that can endure high levels of carbohydrates.  There is an epidemic of obesity and Diabetes type 2 in the world right now and it is a result of excessive dietary carbohydrates in recommended diets for the vast majority of the public.

 

If you follow science-based metabolic research over the last decade, there is an unquestionable causal link between excessive amounts of dietary carbohydrates and metabolic syndromes such as obesity and DT2 in the majority of the population.  Excessive carbs cause a huge release of insulin in every body.  Some can tolerate this and some can not.  Over time, most people will suffer from desensitized insulin receptors, and that's when some very bad things start to happen, though most people are completely unaware of it.  They start to get the classic "beer belly" and just shrug it off to getting older.  Well there is nothing natural about getting a "middle aged spread".  IMO, that is a classic sign of "metabolic syndrome", an inflammatory state that is a disease state!

 

In the standard American Diet, people are indoctrinated into believing they must eat 3 meals a day to be healthy (i.e.: breakfast is the most important meal of the day is total bunk!), and then they also snack between meals.  They eat from the moment they wake up until the moment they go to bed which means insulin receptors are just flooded with insulin without reprieve.

 

The result is that those receptors become habituated over time and eventually fail to work properly.  Once they no longer work effectively, the human body looses the ability to access and use stored body fat.  The body then can only store fat, and over time more and more fat is stored on the body, but more importantly around the liver, and that's when bad things begin to happen.  For many people, they are not even aware there is a problem until it's too late to reverse the effects.  There is absolutely no question that this happens.  Clinical studies prove it, but all you really have to do is look at a person who must inject insulin to deal with diabetes, and you can see that they just keep getting fatter and fatter from the insulin injections.  

 

So, unquestionably, excessive amounts of dietary carbohydrates are incredibly dangerous to health.  That is simply beyond debate.

 

You seem to think that low fat nutrition is healthy nutrition but (for the majority of the public) I disagree strongly and I'll tell you why.  In order to have a low fat diet, you must increase carbohydrates.  The body needs fuel to run and it can only get it from fats or dietary carbs.  If you cut one of them down, you must increase the other.  

 

The advice from mainstream medicine for the last fifty years has been a diet as you propose, that is low in fat.  Dietary fat has been absolutely vilified, yet there is absolutely no clinical studies that really prove a CAUSAL link between fatty foods and coronary or metabolic diseases!

 

Now for the curious anomaly:  If a low fat diet is so healthy, why has obesity and Diabetes exploded to epidemic levels during the same timeframe that government guidelines advocated low fat nutrition?  Is it merely a coincidence, or could there possible be a causal relationship?

 

Just think about it: When you go into a supermarket these days it's almost impossible to avoid purchasing processed foods for most people.  Almost every single processed food contains high fructose corn syrup (HFCS), even foods that you'd least expect to find them in like salad dressing.  HFCS compared to regular fructose is like comparing "Crack" to cocaine!  Why is it found in almost every processed food?  The reason, particularly in the case of "low fat" processed foods, is that when you take out the fat, it becomes unpalatable, so HFCS is added to bring back the flavor.  HFCS is a concentrated form of carbohydrate, and most people don't even realize it's in the food they are buying, so people are getting massive amounts of carbs in their diet, on top of the ones they know contain carbs like bread, pizza, sugared drinks, etc... .  No wonder there is a explosive epidemic in obesity and DT2!

 

So, do you really think a low fat diet is all that healthy?  I sure don't!  I know you are probably going to say that people could be more discerning in what they buy in supermarkets but for the vast majority of the population, they don't have that luxury and can only buy what is affordable, and that is usually the processed food products.

 

What's even worse is that the giant processed food industry uses a lot of tricks to disguise the nutritional information of their food products making them seem healthier than they really are, and adding ingredients to increase craving so people eat more than they should.

 

The simple truth is that the "healthy low fat diet" is a total myth, and as far as the food industry is concerned, a total scam! 

 

Contrarily, foods rich in essential and healthy fats like red beef, eggs, and butter are vilified, with absolutely no legitimate scientific proof that they are unhealthy to eat.  The only proof offered by those who say they are bad are anecdotal correlative studies.  There is not one single clinical study that proves a causal relationship between fatty foods and negative health outcomes...not a single one. 

 

Cholesterol in high fat foods is often touted as a villain but the simple fact is that the body naturally produces far more cholesterol daily than could possible be consumed through the diet.  Even if you were to eat a dozen eggs in one sitting, you'd be getting far less additional cholesterol than the body naturally produces in a day.  What's more, though most don't even realize it...cholesterol is essential for many of the body's metabolic processes, including the production of hormones, bile and vitamin D!

 

The bottom line is that what constitutes good nutrition varies greatly from one person to another.  There are some people that can eat anything they want for their whole lives and live a healthy and happy life, but for the vast majority of the population, obesity and metabolic syndromes are a very real danger.  Science has proven beyond a shadow of doubt that excessive carbohydrates play a significant role in metabolic-related diseases.  However, to date, science has NOT proven that low or even no carbohydrates in the diet is a danger to good health in an otherwise healthy individual.

 

Just as you seem to prosper on your diet, I also prosper on mine.  I have been practicing a Keto lifestyle for several years now, limiting my dietary carbs to under 50 grams per day and have suffered no ill effects as evidenced by near perfect blood tests which I have done twice a year.  What's more, because I am fully keto adapted now (meaning that metabolic pathways for fat burning are highly efficient), I can undergo my passion for rigorous bike rides (hill climbing) without "bonking" (no sudden loss of energy due to glycogen depletion), and all without the need for sports gels or energy drinks.  And I should add that cycling is one of the main reasons I do Keto; it's not to lose weight but to be able to have more endurance, though being lighter in the saddle is always a plus.

 

I do want to ask you about your body fat percentage.  You were at 4% body fat?  Seriously that sounds unhealthy!  I'm not criticizing you but am just curious why so low?  I mean, elite competitive cyclist are known for low BF% since weight is a serious detriments to cycling speed where even a few grams can be the difference between a win and a loss, but I've never heard of one that was below 6% and that was in a junior racer (under 18).  Just curious why you would desire that low of a BF%.

 

Anyway, I wish you the best.  I hope you realize I'm not trying to tell you that you are wrong about your own nutritional strategies.  I only am saying you should not make blanket judgements that low carb is a bad thing for all people.

 

Peace ????

 

Everything you've said about excessive carbs is what i repeated. Too many carbs, especially from sugar sources, aren't healthy. It's quite impossible to eat too many vegetables without filling up quickly, and the calories from them are very low. It's true what works for some may not work as well for others, but a healthy lifestyle with carbs from natural sources is a low calorie lifestyle. It's true that some can eat red meat, smoke cigars and drink whiskey and live to 100, while others who exercise and eat healthy can die at 40. Genetics play most of the roles in how long you live anyway, but you can shorten your life by not eating healthy. I've studied nutrition all these 45 years, and have respected all kinds of opinions on diet fads, most of which are only good short term. The keto diet isn't harmful if followed for a few years or so, but I'm not convinced it would be healthy longer than that. Your body needs fiber for gut health, and yes, you can take vitamin supplements to replace that which you don't get on keto. High fat diets can lead to gall bladder and pancreatic problems. You don't have to eat high fats on keto anyway. Lean meats, fish, egg whites, and low fat dairy products can give you the same results without the risk of higher fats. Low carbs mean different things to different people. 25 to 50 grams are low,but you'll still have benefits. Lower than 25 I believe will lead to problems later on. There was a man that was older than I, Clarence Bass, who maintained a 2% body fat for many years, and he was healthy. When I was aged 25 to about 47, I looked like Rambo, without the drug use. This is him at 81. If you can make 81, you've made it a long life by any standards. I'm still pretty lean now, and would be leaner if I got back into a gym, as I don't have much in the way of weights here at the house. Soon. My diet hasn't changed. The only time I get smooth is when I eat too much rice. By the way, I don't trust the food industry and haven't since I started. They are in it for the money, and just like the cigarette advertising that was thankfully stopped, most ads you see on TV are for unhealthy foods, especially here in Thailand, because sugar sells, and they know people will get addicted.  No one has ever gotten fat eating what grows from the earth, as I stated earlier. You can't eat too many vegetables. You will be stuffed long before the caloric content was too much. It's what people add to those carbs that is bad. Moderate carbs, low fat and moderate protein is healthy. Some vegans eat nothing but carbs, and they are skinny if they don't understand amino acid combinations so they get enough complete protein for muscle growth. Most obese people are sedentary and eat far too much sugars. Too much sugar and you can't burn stored body fat, which is why you went keto. I opt for a healthy lifestyle where I get all the essential nutrients without eating too much of anything.

Edited August 24, 2020 by fredwiggy

[tgw]

On 7/18/2020 at 7:56 AM, GoDucks said:

Then all fine.

"go to Makro and buy Harvey brand rib eye and strip loin.  Its 360 baht per kg and good quality."

 

are you in Pattaya? is that beef sold at the big Makro on Sukhumvit near Jomtien ?

[WaveHunter]

20 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

... You don't have to eat high fats on keto anyway. Lean meats, fish, egg whites, and low fat dairy products can give you the same results without the risk of higher fats. Low carbs mean different things to different people. 25 to 50 grams are low,but you'll still have benefits. Lower than 25 I believe will lead to problems later on. ...

I'm glad we seem to agree that excessive carbs is just plain bad.  I still disagree with you that there is any evidence (empirical or clinical) that limiting dietary carbs below 25 could have negative health implications.  I'm not saying it isn't possible, only there is no evidence of that.  All that I know for certain is that during the past few months that I have been at only 10 grams of carbs per day, I feel very good; better than when I was around 50 grams, and my recent blood tests show nothing of concern.

 

I'm by no means trying to convert you to my way of thinking, but maybe you should just study Keto from a trusted and unbiased science-based source just to know the underlying science.  I mean, it's the only way I know of to really be objective about a subject...study not only what you believe in but things you disagree with as well.

 

I'm not saying I will stay with this forever.  It is, after all, an experiment.  I like to try out "bio-hacks" on myself to see what the effects are.  I would NOT recommend that others just jump in and try this though.  Cutting carbs abruptly is not a good idea.  I don't know that it is necessarily dangerous, but it would most likely be unsustainable and certainly unpleasant if you just jumped into it without slowly adapting and allowing the body to establish the proper metabolic pathways at it's own pace.

 

Anyway, I appreciate your point of view, and enjoy debating topics with people who have strong opinions whether or not they agree with me...so thanks for that, and glad we have not fallen pray to the usual pissing matches that are so common on this forum LOL!

Edited August 24, 2020 by WaveHunter

[fredwiggy]

Just now, WaveHunter said:

I'm glad we seem to agree that excessive carbs is just plain bad.  I still disagree with you that there is any evidence (empirical or clinical) that limiting dietary carbs below 25 could have negative health implications.  I'm not saying it isn't possible, only there is no evidence of that.  All that I know for certain is that during the past few months that I have been at only 10 grams of carbs per day, I feel very good; better than when I was around 50 grams, and my recent blood tests show nothing of concern.

 

I'm by no means trying to convert you to my way of thinking, but maybe you should just study Keto from a trusted and unbiased science-based source just to know the underlying science.  I mean, it's the only way I know of to really be objective about a subject...study not only what you believe in but things you disagree with as well.

 

I'm not saying I will stay with this forever.  It is, after all, an experiment.  I like to try out "bio-hacks" on myself to see what the effects are.  I would NOT recommend that others just jump in and try this though.  Cutting carbs abruptly is not a good idea.  I don't know that it is necessarily dangerous, but it would most likely be unsustainable and certainly unpleasant if you just jumped into it without slowly adapting and allowing the body to establish the proper metabolic pathways at it's own pace.

 

Anyway, I appreciate your point of view, and enjoy debating topics with people who have strong opinions whether or not they agree with me...so thanks for that, and glad we have not fallen pray to the usual pissing matches that are so common on this forum LOL!

Not at all. All I've ever tried to do here is help others from what I know. If you looked at Clarence bass' website, you will see that he's stayed very lean eating full fat fish, butter and eggs, along with a lot of grains and veggies, so it works. It's like a combination of both ways of thinking. His carbs aren't very high also, just like mine. When Atkins came out, which is like keto, I thought then it would work short term, because the carbs weren't there so the body would burn stored fat. I think you could eat potatoes  by themselves all day and you would lose weight, muscle and fat, because the calories were still very low. It would of course be unhealthy because the body needs fats for cell growth and vitamin carriers, and protein for muscle repair. I hope the best for you also.

 

[ravip]

On 7/18/2020 at 6:25 AM, tonray said:

Switch to Prunes...lose even more weight

One of the best one-liner I've come across!

Thank you!

[ravip]

On 7/18/2020 at 6:36 AM, Peterw42 said:

Good luck with that, you will find there are long term effects from only eating protein, you will die of scurvy, clogged arteries, bowel cancer. Also overtime the weight loss from low carbs tends to fall away. 

I too agree on this.

Long term effects from only eating protein + red meat...

Many will disagree, but...

[WaveHunter]

47 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

Not at all. All I've ever tried to do here is help others from what I know. If you looked at Clarence bass' website, you will see that he's stayed very lean eating full fat fish, butter and eggs, along with a lot of grains and veggies, so it works. It's like a combination of both ways of thinking. His carbs aren't very high also, just like mine. When Atkins came out, which is like keto, I thought then it would work short term, because the carbs weren't there so the body would burn stored fat. I think you could eat potatoes  by themselves all day and you would lose weight, muscle and fat, because the calories were still very low. It would of course be unhealthy because the body needs fats for cell growth and vitamin carriers, and protein for muscle repair. I hope the best for you also.

 

There's actually a big difference between Atkins and Keto.  In Atkins, ketosis does not really come into play.  While Atkins is low carb initially, its' biggest failing is that it does not induce ketosis, and is really only another caloric restriction diet.  What differentiates Keto from all other forms of dieting is that the objective of Keto is to alter hormonal balance, not merely restrict calories. That is HUGE!!!

 

Caloric restriction diets have been around for over 100 years, and not a single one of them has succeeded in the main stream population.  There can be some initial weight loss but as I'm sure you know, there is also a corresponding drop in basal metabolism...and that's the primary reason they always fail.  Energy levels fall and pretty soon people just can not continue with them.  Worse yet, when they resume eating, their metabolism is so slowed down that they not only gain back all the weight they lost, but then some.  In short, most people wind up fatter than when they started the diet, AND they usually lose lean body mass through gluconeogenesis as well. 

 

The whole problem with caloric restriction diets is they are simply not sustainable over time.  If you look at any of the popular caloric restriction diets, they are a fad one day, and soon just disappear.  Case in point is the "Biggest Losers" diet that was a rage on TV a few years back.  Almost every contestant on that show is now once again obese! 

 

With Keto however, once carbs are dropped sufficiently, ketone bodies are released and these do three things that a caloric restriction diet can not do:

1)  The ketone bodies can pass through the blood-brain barrier and therefore provide energy to the brain which is essential to prevent a metabolic slowdown. 

2)  They can unlock stored body fat so that it can be converted into fatty acids that can fuel the body, and

3)  As ketone levels rise, they cause a release of noradrenalin and a HUGE release human growth hormone.  Therefore, while basal metabolism may fall for a few days as ketone levels rise, it will soon return to normal and thus the Keto diet can be sustainable for a LONG time...days, weeks, months...no problem. 

 

In other words, Keto is the first diet strategy that is actually sustainable over time because it is the first dieting strategy that relies on hormonal (metabolic) changes not merely caloric restriction. 

 

And, the really cool part of it (at least as far as I'm concerned) is that the released human growth hormone greatly minimizes protein catabolism (as long as dietary fat intake remains adequate).  In other words, if you don't want to loose muscle while dieting, dietary fat is essential so that gluconeogenesis is held at bay)...VERY IMPORTANT aspect of Keto that a lot of people don't appreciate...DIETARY FAT IS ESSENTIAL for keto to work.

Edited August 24, 2020 by WaveHunter

[Kadilo]

On 7/18/2020 at 1:51 AM, faraday said:

Don't you find it difficult to digest all that Beef?

 

 

Nooooooooooo

[2009]

On 7/18/2020 at 7:58 AM, GoDucks said:

And I will keep monitoring my health, but, as I mentioned, after nearly 3 months all my numbers were better:

Lower blood sugar
lower triglycerides
lower bad choloesterol

higher good cholesterol

 

etc.

 

What were you eating before though?

[Mister Fixit]

On 7/18/2020 at 10:32 AM, Skallywag said:

Just read the first page.  All I know is you do miss out on necessary vitamins when eating an all meat diet.   "eating meat deprives your body of folate, vitamins C and E, and fibre, which are all essential for good health" 

 

Then take a multivitamin/mineral supplement.

[Tagged]

1 hour ago, Mister Fixit said:

 

Then take a multivitamin/mineral supplement.

Then I suggest you read about how little effect multivitamins have, since you are not able to take up everything in a pill at the same time, and most of it you just flush out, since the vitamins and minerals competing with the same receptors, and not able to take advantage of all of it at the same time. Some vitamins you need to get trough food as well. 

 

If you have a deficiency of some vitamin or mineral, you eat food that is rich on it, and still need supplement for a short time of period, you take that specific vitamin or mineral you need. Worst snake ooil and hoax in time is multivitamins, and they make huge amount of money, and spend tremendious amount of money in ads just to make you believe you need it, and it will make all your problems go away ????

[Mister Fixit]

On 2/18/2021 at 10:11 AM, Tagged said:

Then I suggest you read about how little effect multivitamins have, since you are not able to take up everything in a pill at the same time, and most of it you just flush out, since the vitamins and minerals competing with the same receptors, and not able to take advantage of all of it at the same time. Some vitamins you need to get trough food as well. 

 

If you have a deficiency of some vitamin or mineral, you eat food that is rich on it, and still need supplement for a short time of period, you take that specific vitamin or mineral you need. Worst snake ooil and hoax in time is multivitamins, and they make huge amount of money, and spend tremendious amount of money in ads just to make you believe you need it, and it will make all your problems go away ????

 

Ha!  Well, I take one high in vitamin D because I take calcium for osteopenia and the vit D helps the body absorb it.

 

And they cost me 250 baht for 1000, so I don't think I am wasting my money, thanks.  

 

I don't need to read anything, because I went through all the scam stuff about vitamins in the 70s until I learnt my lesson.  I peed a lot of expensive pee at the time.

Edited February 19, 2021 by Mister Fixit

[WaveHunter]

16 hours ago, Mister Fixit said:

...I don't need to read anything, because I went through all the scam stuff about vitamins in the 70s until I learnt my lesson.  I peed a lot of expensive pee at the time.

LOL...In regard to wasting your money on vitamins, I like how you put it ????  All the scam-like stuff you hear today about vitamins has only grown far worse today than back in the '70's because of the explosion of "health Gurus" on social media platforms such as YouTube.

 

One of the worst I've seen is Dr Eric Berg,  but there are many more of these "health gurus" out there.  They comes off as really likeable and they all sound convincingly knowledgeable and science based, but, in Berg's case, he's just another one of those chiropractors spewing a lot of misinformation that basically promotes the idea that just about any health issue can be solved by taking some sort of supplement, whether it's a vitamin, some sort of excotic herb, or something like apple cider.

 

He's very convincing in his "white board" presentations that sounds very science-based but in truth, his interpretation of science is often flawed and biased to fit his narrative.

 

I'm not saying he is a 100% con artist.  Many of the things he says are valid.  For instance, his view that giving insulin injections to diabetics rather than addressing the underlying cause of diabetes, which science is proving has to do more with excessively high levels of carbohydrates in the diet makes a lot of sense in light of the underlying science that is now coming to light. 

 

The problem with him though, is that he uses such legitimate information to build a narrative that supplements are some sort of miracle for whatever health problem that is the topic of his particular video.  He is also very subtle in revealing that he sells such supplements or that he makes money through affiliate links to supplement companies and other health-related companies that he mentions on his YouTube channel.

 

It makes sense to supplement with vitamins if you have a specific need for them.  For instance, if you are a strict Vegan, you will probably have to supplement with VItamin B12 since this vitamin comes almost exclusively from animal-based sources.

 

For everyone else on a healthy and balanced diet, you really don't need a vitamin supplement (including a one-a-day multi).  The supplement industry is vastly overpriced and they make billions of dollars based on the kind of misinformation promoted by such "health gurus".

 

My 2 cents worth ????

 

[Tagged]

17 hours ago, Mister Fixit said:

 

Ha!  Well, I take one high in vitamin D because I take calcium for osteopenia and the vit D helps the body absorb it.

 

And they cost me 250 baht for 1000, so I don't think I am wasting my money, thanks.  

 

I don't need to read anything, because I went through all the scam stuff about vitamins in the 70s until I learnt my lesson.  I peed a lot of expensive pee at the time.

If you take your time to read my post and understand it, it is exactly what I say. Take only what you need, and as your correct have understood, some vitamins and vitamins, needs supplement of others to make you being able to uptake that specific vitamin better. Call it an helping agent. When I am thinking of multivitamin, I am thinking of a coctail of more than two or maybe three ingridents ????

[fredwiggy]

2 hours ago, Tagged said:

If you take your time to read my post and understand it, it is exactly what I say. Take only what you need, and as your correct have understood, some vitamins and vitamins, needs supplement of others to make you being able to uptake that specific vitamin better. Call it an helping agent. When I am thinking of multivitamin, I am thinking of a coctail of more than two or maybe three ingridents ????

You follow a healthy, balanced diet and there is no need for any supplements, with the exception of Folic Acid for women during pregnancy. Trouble is, most people do not eat a balanced diet so taking some vitamin C and D is necessary with some who are deficient.

[Tagged]

41 minutes ago, fredwiggy said:

You follow a healthy, balanced diet and there is no need for any supplements, with the exception of Folic Acid for women during pregnancy. Trouble is, most people do not eat a balanced diet so taking some vitamin C and D is necessary with some who are deficient.

What we should not underestimate, is the placebo effect, that  just taking something is a start to feel better and start a healing process. 

 

And I think I said it already in my previous post the same as you. 

[BigStar]

On 7/18/2020 at 7:55 AM, tonray said:

Switch to Prunes...lose even more weight

Get a 1kg bag of dried in Makro. Easy to load up.

[BigStar]

20 hours ago, Tagged said:

What we should not underestimate, is the placebo effect, that  just taking something is a start to feel better and start a healing process. 

 

And I think I said it already in my previous post the same as you. 

Placebo, yes. I made the same point in another forum to a poster touting all the benefits he'd derived from supplementing with creatine. I had started taking it a year ago after reading some seemingly credible science about it. Made no discernible difference whatsoever. Same with my multivitamin, dark chocolate, and wine. No clone or twin to serve as control, though. Well, one can hope there're some beneficial hidden effects. Just had an extensive checkup a couple weeks ago and the numbers were good across the board--so there's that. And my posts are as brilliant as ever. ????