16 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Another Brexiteer lie that you've fallen for.

 

The ECHR was first mooted in 1948 by, among others, Winston Churchill. It was signed in 1950 and the UK was a founding signatory. There are currently 47 signatories, which includes the 27 EU members.

 

The ECJ is the EU's court. The ECHR has it's own court; the European Court of Human Rights.

 

But the ECHR does not stop the UK from deporting asylum seekers, especially those whose claims have failed.

Official figures show that the European Court of Human Rights has thwarted more planned deportations by Britain than any other country.

The controversial “Rule 39” procedure was recently used by judges in Strasbourg to prevent Abu Qatada, the extremist cleric, being sent back to Jordan in case evidence obtained under torture was used against him.

It has also been used by Somali criminals and failed Tamil asylum seekers to remain in the country.

Under the Rule 39 powers of the European Court of Human Rights, judges can issue interim measures that are binding on nation states if they believe the applicant “faces a real risk of serious, irreversible harm if the measure is not applied”.

11 hours ago, stephenterry said:

It probably doesn't matter one iota as this government, headed by a muppet, is capable of mismanaging everything from the Coronavirus, the NHS, the Care home deaths, their own backbenchers, Russian infiltration, and the economy - which will be funded by the taxpayer for decades after. 

 

It's a pity that Starmer won't be in Downing St until winning the 2024 election- or hopefully earlier if a no confidence vote is successful. As for fishing rights who'd want to risk their health by consuming polluted fish anyway? 

 

England - I'm sad to say is currently a waste of space... 

hell will freeze over before starmer gets into no10 ,hes a complete blockhead .the voters want to punish em for cheating voters over brexit..hitler has more chance of getting into no10 than starmer

8 hours ago, vogie said:

And who do we have to thank for that, if the remainers hadn't tried to stifle the democratic decision of the referendum we would have been out 2 years ago and saved a fortune. Well done to all the remainers for costing our country a hefty price, and for what?

 

It was Johnson and the ERG who prevented us from leaving.

 

I was unaware that you considered them Remainers!

Just now, 3NUMBAS said:

hell will freeze over before starmer gets into no10 ,hes a complete blockhead .the voters want to punish em for cheating voters over brexit..hitler has more chance of getting into no10 than starmer

He's very different to Corbyn. Also, with Boris as leader, (with a big majority) I would't hazard a guess at what might happen over the next 4 years.

(I'm not & never have been a Labour supporter by the way).

10 hours ago, david555 said:

Yes  you are right …. but how many country's they crossed already from example West Africa or Eas t Africa BEFORE they reach Europe or even England …. so those neighboring country's responsibility and the refugee ….who have ….. "dear choices for economic improvement" not to suppose save his life..... economic refugees  throwing away passports to avoid send back …. send back to where..???

No, I repeat: NO refugee gets an EU member state passport only a "permit to stay"

8 hours ago, Traubert said:

'Britain is pursuing trade deals with other countries'

 

With all the grace of a rhino in heat.

 Indeed.

 

Perhaps a Brexiteer can tell us which countries are queuing up outside Liz Truss's office eager to do a trade deal with us?

8 hours ago, CorpusChristie said:

England doesnt have independence though .

Are you aware that England , Scotland , N.I and Wales , all are part of the United Kingdom ?

Did you think that Scotland N.I and Wales are part of England ?

Correct. Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland are nothign more that English occupied territories in Europe. They even cannot get them free from the English.

8 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

No, I repeat: NO refugee gets an EU member state passport only a "permit to stay"

Unless after many years when following the legal way....but a 5 years stay permit is almost giving them the same rights ...and many woman trying to born baby with local country nationality man ..and so they are good as mother of a baby with nationality from E.U. country .....could call it " a baby extension granting "...lol

 

 

 

Edited July 22, 20205 yr by david555

13 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

No, I repeat: NO refugee gets an EU member state passport only a "permit to stay"

Is this answer on a post of me ...? Did i say they get immediate citizens passport...can not remember ....only that some reach that status in some " solution "ways and then try to marry another by a money transaction ....

 

 

Edited July 22, 20205 yr by david555

5 hours ago, JonnyF said:

WTO it is then.

 

The vast majority of trade is done on WTO terms. No problem.

 

 

Another lie from the Brexit camp.

 

Most countries have trade agreements with their major trading partners.

 

Only one country does not and so trades purely on WTO terms; Mauritania. (Source)

 

But that is changing as Mauritania has been in trade talks with the EU for the last two years. (Source)

 

So tell us; if trading just on WTO terms is so wonderful; why does nobody else want to do it?

 

"There is no plan for a no deal because we are going to get a great deal" Boris Johnson, May 2017. 

 

We'll, at least he was half right! 

 

 

 

12 hours ago, ukrules said:

 

For example, how many 1000's have washed up in boats since we left the EU? What will they do when we send them all back to France?

 

 

And what will happen if France just let them go to the Uk without trying to stop them, and will refuse to take them back ?  

 

 

with the new freedom from eu, the uk have free hands to devalue currency

for a quick re-balance of trade

53 minutes ago, ukrules said:

You're not getting it. The UK is changing the way this kind of thing is dealt with and the French won't like it one bit.

 

We don't need favours from the French, they will take back the refugees they've been assisting to enter the UK. Just watch it happen.

 

 You don't get it. The UK cannot change the way we deal with refugees unless we break international law and become pariahs for our human rights record like China. Is that what you want?

 

As you believe the lie that the French have  been assisting refugees to enter the UK, explain the tens of thousands camped out in the Pas de Calais. Explain the fact that UK immigration posts operate in French channel ports. Explain those returned to France if caught in a French port or French territorial waters.

 

 

Edited July 22, 20205 yr by 7by7
typos

38 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

Official figures show that the European Court of Human Rights has thwarted more planned deportations by Britain than any other country.

The controversial “Rule 39” procedure was recently used by judges in Strasbourg to prevent Abu Qatada, the extremist cleric, being sent back to Jordan in case evidence obtained under torture was used against him.

It has also been used by Somali criminals and failed Tamil asylum seekers to remain in the country.

Under the Rule 39 powers of the European Court of Human Rights, judges can issue interim measures that are binding on nation states if they believe the applicant “faces a real risk of serious, irreversible harm if the measure is not applied”.

 And what does this have to do with the EU or Brexit?

 

Nothing.

 

BTW, your link appears to be broken as it leads nowhere. Do you have another source?

Edited July 22, 20205 yr by 7by7
Addendum

1 minute ago, 7by7 said:

 And what does this have to do with the EU or Brexit?

 

Nothing.

It totally refutes your previous comment that was all about ECHR/ECJ having no say whatsoever.

2 minutes ago, Andrew65 said:

It totally refutes your previous comment that was all about ECHR/ECJ having no say whatsoever.

 My previous comment was that the ECHR and the ECtHR are nothing to do with the EU and the ECJ and vice versa. Which is true.

 

I did not say that the ECHR and the ECtHR had no say over human rights issues in the UK; on the contrary.

 

Here is that post again:

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

Another Brexiteer lie that you've fallen for.

 

The ECHR was first mooted in 1948 by, among others, Winston Churchill. It was signed in 1950 and the UK was a founding signatory. There are currently 47 signatories, which includes the 27 EU members.

 

The ECJ is the EU's court. The ECHR has it's own court; the European Court of Human Rights.

 

But the ECHR does not stop the UK from deporting asylum seekers, especially those whose claims have failed.

 

Note that I did not say that the UK government wins every case they have, whether as plaintiff or defendant, before the ECtHR; because that would not be true.

 

BTW, as my edit in my previous says, the link in your previous appears to be broken; have you another source?

 

 

12 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

So the Brexit utopia awaits. 

Its been obvious for months this was going to happen. Johnson and the Brexiteers made too many promises they simply cannot keep.

May went to the EU and got the best deal the UK was going to get. It was still rubbish because leaving is a stupid idea but according to the Brexiteers it was not leaving at all. It was selling out. 

Then Johnson starts claiming we can have all the good stuff from the EU with none of the perceived (in their eyes) drawbacks of being a member. They need us more than we need them. 

The EU is having none of it.

Congratulations Brexiteers. You won. Now the country will have to deal with what it is you actually won.

What happened to the oven ready deal?

Calm down. The UK will do very well post-Brexit.

13 hours ago, ukrules said:

Drastic changes are coming in the next 3-4 weeks.

 

They won't know what hit them but they know it's coming, we left the EU many months ago.

 

With no deal on the table there's a lot more leeway and we won't be playing ball with the French.

 

For example, how many 1000's have washed up in boats since we left the EU? What will they do when we send them all back to France?

 

You're joking? You'll abandon Genever Convention? Are you intend of being animals next? I'm sure you don't want this little kingdom to drown soon or dump into former medievil times? ????

 

14 hours ago, stephenterry said:

It probably doesn't matter one iota as this government, headed by a muppet, is capable of mismanaging everything from the Coronavirus, the NHS, the Care home deaths, their own backbenchers, Russian infiltration, and the economy - which will be funded by the taxpayer for decades after. 

 

It's a pity that Starmer won't be in Downing St until winning the 2024 election- or hopefully earlier if a no confidence vote is successful. As for fishing rights who'd want to risk their health by consuming polluted fish anyway? 

 

England - I'm sad to say is currently a waste of space... 

Starmer is a globalist shill, a member of the Trilateral Commission. He kept that fact, and its implications, under the radar in the run-up to the Labour leadership contest.

14 hours ago, nausea said:

It's all bluff, of course you pretend you're going for no deal, basic negotiating strategy stuff.

you brexiteers have been saying that for years.i would be a lot more confident if we had anyone else but this lieing <deleted> in charge.time to <deleted> or get off the pot

1 hour ago, Thingamabob said:

Calm down. The UK will do very well post-Brexit.

 

what is the basis for your very?

 

1 hour ago, sawadee1947 said:

You're joking? You'll abandon Genever Convention? Are you intend of being animals next? I'm sure you don't want this little kingdom to drown soon or dump into former medievil times? ????

 

abandoning Conventions on Genever would likely severly upset the Dutch .. .

 

Uk seem to be getting on with it:

Quote

The UK delivered the following statement to the WTO Trade Negotiations Committee on 20 July.

UK statement to the WTO Trade Negotiations Committee

 

Quote

The UK's Ambassador to the WTO and UN in Geneva, Julian Braithwaite, delivered this statement at a meeting of the WTO General Council on 22 July 2020.

 

UK Statement to the WTO General Council on the Director General Selection Process

14 hours ago, Andrew65 said:

We've just spent 3 years watching it happen.???? (Most of it with Mrs May as PM).

 

     Expect another 3 years with nothing happening ..

15 hours ago, Andrew65 said:

There are many who think that a no deal Brexit is what Boris, JRM etc really wanted anyway, even when making a pretence of trying for/wanting a deal.

I agree, there never was any intention from the beginning.

17 minutes ago, Maybole said:

I agree, there never was any intention from the beginning.

That's fair enough. There was no mention of a deal on the referendum voting paper. 

Its all going wrong isn't it guys.

We were on top of the world. Brexit had won. We were taking back control. 

We played Big Ben on a cassette recorder in Parliament square because the real Big Ben was broken or something on our independence day. Now to sit back as the EU capitulated to all our demands because they need us more than we need them. Easiest trade deal in history.

Lets get brexit done. Johnson is the man to do it. Hes just like Churchill. 

Wait. What? The EU is sticking to its policy which has been consistent from the very beginning?

Don't worry the EU is going to collapse any day now. Then we will stride across the world like a colossus. Other nations will beg us for trade deals. Empire 2.0. Hold on. Why is that not happening? Don't they know we are British? Dunkirk man. The greatest victory in the history of the world. OK we had to sacrifice the 51st Highland division to succeed in our tactical withdrawal but it was the plucky Brits what won it.

Why were we not warned about any of this?

Its OK men. Stand firm. When its all looking bad and the future of the UK is bleak remember this.

Immigration. Yes. When the faithful start to question if Brexit is a good idea after all given how its going just remind them of all those Johnny foreigners waiting like Hyenas to come into the UK.

We dont need them. We can pick our own fruit and veg. Well when I say we I mean someone else can. I aint doing it for that rubbish money.

Ignore the damage being done to the country and remember. We are the patriots.

 

p.s. Putin sends hugs.

 

5 hours ago, Lormak said:

Great news!  

I know Remainers are only interested in the money - but to some of us freedom, independence and the right to determine our own destiny are more important.  Democracy has prevailed. We voted to leave and leave we will, no deals and no strings.

The salt of the Earth working classes don't care about a deal.

And any business not ready for WTO terms has only itself to blame - four years to prepare!

 

What rule did the EU make that effected you? As an average joe (like me) 99% of decisons that effect you will be made in the UK. 

 

Was it bendy bananas ?  I

Genuine question - for those who support Brexit, financially how will the UK be a success? 

 

Forget immigration for a moment, which just seems to be over run by xenophobes getting all excited. Purely financially, what steps could the UK take?

 

There are plenty of states worldwide who don't have trade deals with the EU, or neighbouring countries, and do well, with GDP in excess of 5% every year. 

 

I keep hearing Singapore on the Thames? I keep hearing we could become a low tax economy and get plenty of investment, flexible working standards ( ie reduce working standards) for workers which will make us more attractive for those in Europe who would not want to deal with the burden of European rules and hoops. 

 

As policies what could we implement to give us an advantage? 

 

Please no rerunning the referendum or smart alec remarks how it's all wrong. What's happened has happened. How do we make a success out of it, or make the best out of it.