Nearly one in six Britons would refuse Covid-19 vaccine

[richard_smith237]

3 minutes ago, innosiem said:

and here are the ad-homiens

if you vax someone and they get the flu
100% the vax did not work

if you vax someone and they did not get the flu
there is no way for certain to know if they would have got the flu or not

and many other contributing factors
straight forward common sense

of course the drug companies will word it as 40-60% "effective"

which no matter which way you look at it
effective or ineffective
is basically stating 50/50

You are wrong... 

 

Your argument is similar to suggesting that if 1 person dies in a car accident while wearing a seatbelt then seatbelts are 100% ineffective. 

 

 

Vaccinations are not cures, they are prevention, they prevent a virus from taking hold or minimise the impact of a disease should a virus take hold in a person such that the illness is short lived or less effective.

 

Vaccinations programs are more effective the more people are vaccinated. Herd immunity is increased such that a vaccinated or non vaccinated individual is more protected.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[transam]

2 minutes ago, innosiem said:

????
well good thing C19 killed the flu ????

Really, I didn't know that, fanks....

[Captain Monday]

One in six Britoons should be denied boarding on any international airline

probably should have their passport confiscated.

[innosiem]

18 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

You are wrong... 

 

Your argument is similar to suggesting that if 1 person dies in a car accident while wearing a seatbelt then seatbelts are 100% ineffective. 

 

 

Vaccinations are not cures, they are prevention, they prevent a virus from taking hold or minimise the impact of a disease should a virus take hold in a person such that the illness is short lived or less effective.

 

Vaccinations programs are more effective the more people are vaccinated. Herd immunity is increased such that a vaccinated or non vaccinated individual is more protected.

thats not how it works and thats not how i meant it and you know it
if someone died with their seatbelt on and all other "contributing factors" were safe during CDT
then yes it is 100% CERTAIN the seatbelt failed THAT TIME
does not mean they are 100% ineffective across the board does it?
and not what i was saying and you know it, dont be foolish

if someone is vaxxed and then they get the flu
100% it did not work that time

now if 100 people got vaxxed, and 40 of them got the flu
the it is 100% CERTAIN
that the vax was ineffective at minimum 40%

i explained it slowly for you
(and pro vaxxers claim theres no link to autism LOL)

 

 

16 minutes ago, transam said:

Really, I didn't know that, fanks....

i didnt expect you to have done any research TBH
but since the pumped c19 numbers
flu numbers have dropped compared to previous years, (less than 50% this year)
where they were guess what ?..............just the same as C19 numbers

Flu Kills 646,000 People Worldwide Each Year: Study



 

Edited July 24, 2020 by innosiem

[Surelynot]

25 minutes ago, innosiem said:

vaccines manufacturers are immune

What are they using?

[richard_smith237]

15 minutes ago, innosiem said:

thats not how it works and thats not how i meant it and you know it
if someone died with their seatbelt on and all other "contributing factors" were safe during CDT
then yes it is 100% CERTAIN the seatbelt failed THAT TIME
does not mean they are 100% ineffective across the board does it?
and not what i was saying and you know it, dont be foolish

The point made was to highlight the flaw in your argument - it served its purpose. 

 

15 minutes ago, innosiem said:

if someone is vaxxed and then they get the flu
100% it did not work that time

A ridiculous statement - vaccines work in aggregate.

 

15 minutes ago, innosiem said:

now if 100 people got vaxxed, and 40 of them got the flu
the it is 100% CERTAIN
that the vax was ineffective at minimum 40%

You mean... its 40% ineffective - you are repeating what others have said.

 

15 minutes ago, innosiem said:

i explained it slowly for you
(and pro vaxxers claim theres no link to autism LOL)

 ok - thats funny... 

 

15 minutes ago, innosiem said:

i didnt expect you to have done any research TBH
but since the pumped c19 numbers
flu numbers have dropped compared to previous years, (less than 50% this year)
where they were guess what ?..............just the same as C19 numbers

Flu Kills 646,000 People Worldwide Each Year: Study

Could it be that Influenza numbers are down do the lockdown?

 

 

 

 

[Peter Denis]

1 hour ago, richard_smith237 said:

Why would anyone with a perfect immune system require vaccination against Polio, Measles, Tetanus, Diphtheria, Hepatitis (A&B).... ???

 

Neither would such a perfect Immune system will require Antibiotics.....  

Absolutely correct. 
My last vaccination was when I was 12 years old (not old enough to decide for myself), and last antibiotic cure approx 17 years old (same story). 

From Age of Reason I shunned allopathic medicine and its corresponding world view that considers illness as the Enemy and were 'treatment' is limited to attacking the symptoms (which they often incorrectly label as 'causes').

Now 50 years later, feeling very well with no chronic illnesses or the like, and obviously never taking meds and avoiding unhealthy food or polluted places.

Yes, I am a 'chancer' not by accident but by making the correct choices.

OK > and now I will get the Full Load of all the would-be scientists and their parrots.

 

[drbeach]

1 hour ago, Yinn said:

If thai government say foreigner must vax or get out, what will you do?

Won't happen like that. IF and that's a big IF the Thai government imposes a mandatory vaccination requirement, it will apply first and foremost to Thais. Same as in China. Applies to Chinese citizens but NOT foreigners. https://www.loc.gov/law/foreign-news/article/china-vaccine-law-passed/

 

Requiring a vaccine for getting on a plane or to enter the country, is a different story. But of course, it applies equally to all. Same as the current yellow fever requirement - in practice, from what I've observed, this is what happens.

 

ONLY at international airports, incoming passengers who look African are pulled aside and may be asked for yellow fever certificates. If they are arriving from a non-yellow fever zone, they don't have to show anything. If they're arriving from parts of Africa in the yellow fever zone, they may need to show something.

 

A westerner or Thai arriving from Africa may or may not be picked out of the queue for the same purposes.

 

And as I've said before - I highly doubt there will be a vaccine requirement across the board to stay or live in the country for anyone. At best, they can try imposing such a requirement to enter crowded places using an app as proof. No one's coming to your house to put a shot in your arm.

[Why Me]

Hey Mods,

There's an "I drink too much" forum, "I'm too fat" forum. How about an "I'm an anti-vax loon" forum? Then the halfwits can mingle with their own kind and tell each other conspiracy theories.

 

Here's one to get the loon forum started: Moderna's taken 7 1/2 billion from Bill Gates so that their vaccine will contain a nano chip that will implant itself in the brain so that if you try to download any OS other than Microsoft you will suffer unbearable pain in your left toe. Alex Jones said so.

 

Like they say you can't fix stupid. But at least you can give them their own area out of sight of the rest of us.

[drbeach]

1 hour ago, innosiem said:

visa regs are not the same as vaccines

why would vax only be mandatory for foreigner?
as YOU put it

my answer is i would leave, i would sell up everything,
buy my wife a 2nd passport and leave
do you think i would put Thailand before my own health? LOL
(i repeated myself, seeing as you are too lazy to research)

i will not be vaccinated.
do not think i am as mentally weak as yourself, and i would just cave in to conformity.

Now please can you answer my initial question properly?

don't worry, your xenophobia has already been expressed and noted????

 

Yinn is a xenophobic troll, but she also lacks logic and common sense because extreme prejudice, xenophobia and racism guide her every post. She's this forum's equivalent of the "Suthin" character over on the Bangkok Post Comments section. That guy is so bad he's now advocating violence and genocide against foreigners, particularly farang. The Bangkok Post doesn't appear to censor comments but you can flag suspect ones, which are often removed afterwards if they breach posting guidelines.

 

You're totally right in your response, but let me add a few more thoughts of my own:

 

The Thai government has no interest in making vax mandatory only for foreigners. That's completely delusional conjecture on her part. Never going to happen because it would be unenforceable and shooting themselves in the foot. It wouldn't make any sense whatsoever, especially since all governments are about "herd immunity" and you can't have herd immunity when only the 1% of the population which is foreigners (or let's say 5% including foreign migrant workers) are vaccinated and have the remaining Thai population (95% of the total population) remaining unvaxxed. It's the other way round, 80-95% of the population would need to be vaxxed, though some MSM articles have mentioned 60-67% in relation to covid. Either way, more than half the population.

 

Quite obviously IF a vaccine mandate were to come into play in Thailand in the future, it would apply to Thai citizens only. Thanks to the 30 Baht healthcare scheme, Thais would likely receive it for free and foreigners would probably have to pay 1000 Baht for it if they want it. That said, they might impose a vaccine requirement to catch a flight to Thailand, but that would likely happen only if all countries are obliged to follow the WHO's guidelines. No country would impose a unilateral vaccine requirement for entering their country in the absence of guidelines/recommendations from a higher global authority.

 

Still, as has been the case so far in countries around the world - the only way of making vaccines "mandatory" is by requiring them to participate in certain aspects of society.

 

No country in the world can or will impose vaccines on people who live out in the forest or countryside or sit at home all day and have no interaction with the outside world.

 

Instead, they might impose vaccine requirements on school children, as many countries do. You can opt out by not enrolling your children in school although that's not an option in some countries where homeschooling is illegal (such as Sweden, Germany, China and Hungary). Of these 4 countries, 2 currently have mandatory vaccines and one is pending (Germany, for the MMR). Sweden has previously stated it will not impose mandatory vaccines.

[drbeach]

27 minutes ago, Why Me said:

Hey Mods,

There's an "I drink too much" forum, "I'm too fat" forum. How about an "I'm an anti-vax loon" forum? Then the halfwits can mingle with their own kind and tell each other conspiracy theories.

 

Here's one to get the loon forum started: Moderna's taken 7 1/2 billion from Bill Gates so that their vaccine will contain a nano chip that will implant itself in the brain so that if you try to download any OS other than Microsoft you will suffer unbearable pain in your left toe. Alex Jones said so.

 

Like they say you can't fix stupid. But at least you can give them their own area out of sight of the rest of us.

Yes you can't fix stupid like your post. People are allowed to have opinions, question things and choose what goes into our bodies. All you're doing is using a classic debating tactic called a "strawman" by using logical fallacies and ad hominems/name calling to denigrate valid concerns people have. And if you don't like it, why are you here?

 

And quoting a known controlled opposition character like Alex Jones makes you look even more ridiculous. I know a lot of what Alex says is actually true, but when he talks about wacky things like "Arabs control Hollywood" then you know it's time to stop listening because that's clearly untrue. That's the point of controlled op - to bring you up to a certain level of knowledge but not more. Most of us don't follow Alex Jones though and I certainly don't.

 

Anyway, you can go and get your covid shot if you want. No one is denying you that. I would suggest contacting Chulalongkorn University to see if they'll accept a foreigner as one of their trial guinea pigs.

Edited July 24, 2020 by drbeach

[drbeach]

2 hours ago, transam said:

I think you are living in cloud-cuckoo-land....Even children die of cancer, as well as a load of other causes, but you are immune to it all, wow....????

Everyone dies one day. No matter how healthy they might have been in the past. The key is to maintain health as long as you can and hopefully live to a ripe old age.

[Why Me]

11 minutes ago, drbeach said:

People are allowed to have opinions, question things and choose what goes into our bodies.

You are allowed to have opinions, question stuff and ingest what you like on your own dime. But you are not allowed to endanger others. Polio, rubella, measles and on and on were eliminated (well, except where loons rule) thanks to mass vaccination. The way the herd stays safe is the herd vaccinating. We're as strong as our weakest link.

 

Now, off to the anti-vax loon forum with you, doc.

[evadgib]

3 hours ago, Why Me said:

You are allowed to have opinions, question stuff and ingest what you like on your own dime. But you are not allowed to endanger others. Polio, rubella, measles and on and on were eliminated (well, except where loons rule) thanks to mass vaccination. The way the herd stays safe is the herd vaccinating. We're as strong as our weakest link.

 

Now, off to the anti-vax loon forum with you, doc.

The mass vaccination of troops en-route to the first Gulf War with substances that hadn't been properly tested lead to numerous health-related problems thereafter and has quite rightly lead to questions being asked today.

Edited July 24, 2020 by evadgib

[Why Me]

24 minutes ago, evadgib said:

The mass vaccination of troops en-route to the first Gulf War with substances that hadn't been properly tested lead to numerous health-related problems thereafter and has quite rightly lead to questions being asked today.

Jeez, will these dingbats not give up? Even a cursory read of your quoted piece shows you are lying that it says "mass vaccination of troops ... lead to numerous health-related problems ..."

 

I'll leave others to read the piece referred for themselves about a whole bunch of possible causes, including the hostile chemical/biological/radioactive environment in Iraq and the lack of a definite conclusion by experts as to the cause of Gulf War Illness.

Edited July 24, 2020 by Why Me

[evadgib]

47 minutes ago, Why Me said:

Jeez, will these dingbats not give up? Even a cursory read of your quoted piece shows you are lying that it says "mass vaccination of troops ... lead to numerous health-related problems ..."

 

I'll leave others to read the piece referred for themselves about a whole bunch of possible causes, including the hostile chemical/biological/radioactive environment in Iraq and the lack of a definite conclusion by experts as to the cause of Gulf War Illness.

Really?

Methinks that neck need retracting.

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by evadgib

[nkg]

Trust The Guardian to run with a clickbait headline.

 

"70% of people say they will definitely take a vaccine, and a further 15% say they are likely to" is the alternative headline, but that wouldn't stir up quite so much outrage ..... ????

[Why Me]

15 minutes ago, nkg said:

Trust The Guardian to run with a clickbait headline.

 

"70% of people say they will definitely take a vaccine, and a further 15% say they are likely to" is the alternative headline, but that wouldn't stir up quite so much outrage ..... ????

Hmm, 100 - 70 -15 = 15. And 15% who'll refuse the vaccine is nearly 1 in 6 like the headline says. Which is a worrying proportion of antivax dingbats in Britain.

 

Thai people mercifully are more socially responsible. As witnessed by zero local transmission for 45 days, which is awesome.

 

With the vaccine we'll be able to party like it's 2019 again certainly. But, honestly, between you and me I don't see the point of masks in Thailand now. How am I going to be infected or going to infect another when ain't nobody got the virus? Ah, well, rules be rules.

[richard_smith237]

7 minutes ago, Why Me said:

Hmm, 100 - 70 -15 = 15. And 15% who'll refuse the vaccine is nearly 1 in 6 like the headline says. Which is a worrying proportion of antivax dingbats in Britain.

 

Thai people mercifully are more socially responsible. As witnessed by zero local transmission for 45 days, which is awesome.

 

With the vaccine we'll be able to party like it's 2019 again certainly. But, honestly, between you and me I don't see the point of masks in Thailand now. How am I going to be infected or going to infect another when ain't nobody got the virus? Ah, well, rules be rules.

I don’t think the 1 in 6 are anti-vaxxer dingbats... they are more likely to be people who have genuine concerns about a vaccine which has been rushed through testing and production. 

 

As with all surveys such as this, it very much depends how the questions are loaded. 

 

 

 

[Why Me]

7 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

As with all surveys such as this, it very much depends how the questions are loaded. 

True. But if they asked leading questions like "Would you agree to take a vaccine that might have been rushed through testing?" then it would have been a lot more in the unsure camp.

 

9 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

I don’t think the 1 in 6 are anti-vaxxer dingbats... they are more likely to be people who have genuine concerns about a vaccine which has been rushed through testing and production. 

Genuine concerns? Nah, dingbats aren't thoughtful people. Have you seen anti-vax literature? Forget the whacky conspiracy theories involving Bill Gates and Hillary and Soros, they even refuse to see facts. Like vaccines eliminating polio, measles, tetanus, mumps, ....

 

Reading about polio particularly is scary. There were tens of thousands of polio cases worldwide in the early 50s. With constant outbreaks and parents fearing for their kids. Then the Salk vaccine came, everyone lined up to to get it, and people soon forgot what polio was.

 

Now, think what would have happened if dingbats ruled those days. You'd be seeing polio cripples everywhere today. Scares me personally because I had a good friend in the US (from a country Trump would call shi*#ole) who was out-of-sight brilliant but on crutches from childhood polio. Edit: Polio hotspots still exist, e.g., Pakistan, because of (religious) resistance to vaccination.

 

No, Richard ole buddy, you and I need to resist these loons with all our might. For the sake of our survival.

 

And, by the way, concerns about C-19 vaccines being "rushed through testing and production" are overblown. A more accurate description would be "accelerated through" which is fine as long as corners are not cut. Keep in mind just like the billion dollar profit incentive, there's equally the risk of billion dollar liability and the company going out of business and criminally culpable execs going to jail if things go wrong. You can bet Moderna, Oxford et al will be testing/trialing till the risk of injury is way right of the decimal point.

 

On top of that the vaccine when it comes will be given to frontline health workers in the first phase for obvious reasons. These are people on the inside. They won't take it if the word is the shot is dicey.

[Odysseus123]

I do not think that the post-Covid world will bear much resemblance to the old 2019 world in terms of international travel.

 

Just as in the 1970's when I commenced to ramble about the planet-we will ALL probably have to have our vaccination booklets-clearly stamped by a state medical authority-up to date and relevant.

 

In the 2019 world we could,if we chose to,jump on board an airliner exhibiting all the symptoms of the bubonic plague and get away with it but,I suspect,in the new world international agreements will insist on the "No vaccinations-No travel" rules so as to provide as many barriers as possible.

 

I also think that if the Thai gov't insists on universal vaccination it will surely demand vaccinations for non citizens too...as will the home countries of the expats who refuse vaccination in Thailand (or any other foreign country)-and to where they will be deported.

Edited July 24, 2020 by Odysseus123

[TeaMonkey]

2 hours ago, Why Me said:

 

 

And, by the way, concerns about C-19 vaccines being "rushed through testing and production" are overblown. A more accurate description would be "accelerated through" which is fine as long as corners are not cut. Keep in mind just like the billion dollar profit incentive, there's equally the risk of billion dollar liability and the company going out of business and criminally culpable execs going to jail if things go wrong. You can bet Moderna, Oxford et al will be testing/trialing till the risk of injury is way right of the decimal point.

 

On top of that the vaccine when it comes will be given to frontline health workers in the first phase for obvious reasons. These are people on the inside. They won't take it if the word is the shot is dicey.

 

The various Vaccine Injury Compensation Programmes (VICP’s) operating around the world, are overseen by the BMGF owned WHO via their Global Vaccine Safety initiative. The WHO are keen to stress the “no fault” element of the various VICP’s.

Before anyone can receive compensation for the proven harm a vaccine caused them or their loved ones, they first have to agree that this is no ones fault. The vaccine manufacturers are not liable and the cost of the harm they cause is picked up by the tax payer.

As of November 2019 the U.S. NVICP alone had paid out $4.2 billion in compensation for people injured or killed by vaccines. In the UK the Vaccine Damage Fund (VDF), with a ceiling payout of just £120,000, has cost tax payers just over £74 million in compensation.

 

[Why Me]

34 minutes ago, TeaMonkey said:

 

The various Vaccine Injury Compensation Programmes (VICP’s) operating around the world, are overseen by the BMGF owned WHO via their Global Vaccine Safety initiative. The WHO are keen to stress the “no fault” element of the various VICP’s.

Before anyone can receive compensation for the proven harm a vaccine caused them or their loved ones, they first have to agree that this is no ones fault. The vaccine manufacturers are not liable and the cost of the harm they cause is picked up by the tax payer.

As of November 2019 the U.S. NVICP alone had paid out $4.2 billion in compensation for people injured or killed by vaccines. In the UK the Vaccine Damage Fund (VDF), with a ceiling payout of just £120,000, has cost tax payers just over £74 million in compensation.

 

Lord, no sooner than I squash one dingbat than another crawls out of the woodwork. From

https://shotofprevention.com/2020/03/16/the-facts-about-the-national-vaccine-injury-compensation-program/

Since the VICP started on October 1, 1988 — over 31 years ago — billions of doses of vaccines have been given to hundreds of millions of people in the U.S. However, only 21,636 claims have been filed with the VICP, and of those, 7,131 people have been compensated for harm they claimed was caused by vaccines. That means, on average, for every 1 million doses of vaccines that have been distributed in the U.S., 1 person is compensated by the VICP. And of the approximately $4.2 billion that has been given out over the life of the program, over $340 million has gone to lawyers’ fees alone.

But being awarded compensation by the VICP does not necessarily mean that the vaccine caused the alleged injury. In fact, most of the cases (70%) that have been compensated by the VICP have been settlements to avoid risk, time, and expense of taking legal action — not because evidence proved the vaccine caused the alleged injury.

 

And from

https://www.fairwarning.org/2018/12/vaccine-court-pays-billions/

Documented vaccine injuries are extremely rare. Over the past 30 years, the vaccine court has received 20,123 petitions claiming injuries and deaths, of which nearly 18,000 have been resolved. Of those, 6,313 have been approved for compensation through settlements or judgments. According to the Health Services & Resources Administration, that translates into approximately one compensable case for every one million doses of vaccines administered.

 

And the above two were from 1 min. on google. So even if the claims were all legitimate, which they weren't as 70% of the claims as the first article says were settled to shoo away the lawyers, the chance of getting ill from a vaccine are 1 in a million. Which means if everyone in Thailand got jabbed, 70 would have a bad reaction.

 

Mods, save me please. I begged you once and I am on my knees again pleading for an "I'm an anti-vax loon" forum. Please. These people need to be with each other.

Edited July 24, 2020 by Why Me

[Matzzon]

Just show the magnitude of madness in close to 17% of the UK population. Horrible!

[Don Chance]

Someone always disagrees ...

[Why Me]

2 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

In the 2019 world we could,if we chose to,jump on board an airliner exhibiting all the symptoms of the bubonic plague and get away with it but,I suspect,in the new world international agreements will insist on the "No vaccinations-No travel" rules so as to provide as many barriers as possible.

Yep, just like post 9/11 plane travel was turned on its head. I remember smuggling gold in my shoes from the US to my home country in the 90s. Don't ask why, I don't remember much more than they were a few pretty coins.

 

Vaccine passports are coming no doubt. 

[TeaMonkey]

1 hour ago, Why Me said:

Lord, no sooner than I squash one dingbat than another crawls out of the woodwork. From

Read what I was replying to you dingbat. You still think the vaccine manufacturers are liable?

[checkered flag]

14 hours ago, Yinn said:

If thai government say foreigner must vax or get out, what will you do?

He'll complain. He's very good at it. But, he's not good at logic. If he's gone based on his principles, we'll see one less illogical Brit.

[Why Me]

28 minutes ago, TeaMonkey said:

Read what I was replying to you dingbat. You still think the vaccine manufacturers are liable?

I read it. You held up VICP compensations as evidence of injury. Which I established was nonsense statistically.

 

As for vaccine manufacturers and oversight agencies being liable for such things as skirted regulations, data fraud, etc., come on, use your brains, Tea. Or at least google. Here you go for a local ruling from

https://www.policymed.com/2014/02/lance-vs-wyeth-pa-supreme-court-pharmaceutical-companies-can-be-sued-for-lack-of-due-care-by-introducing-dangerous.html

Recently, The Pennsylvania Supreme Court ruled that pharmaceutical companies can be held liable for negligence in the design and marketing of drugs, despite the drug’s approval by the Food and Drug Administration (FDA).

 

Now, Tea, I want you to video yourself on your knees begging forgiveness for being a dingbat and promising to be a better person in future. Post here.

 

[checkered flag]

14 hours ago, innosiem said:

visa regs are not the same as vaccines

why would vax only be mandatory for foreigner?
as YOU put it

my answer is i would leave, i would sell up everything,
buy my wife a 2nd passport and leave
do you think i would put Thailand before my own health? LOL
(i repeated myself, seeing as you are too lazy to research)

i will not be vaccinated.
do not think i am as mentally weak as yourself, and i would just cave in to conformity.

Now please can you answer my initial question properly?

don't worry, your xenophobia has already been expressed and noted????

 

It's not about you or your ego. It's about the overall good for society. You sound very selfish and only think about your little self. You don't count for much and wont be missed IMO.