Muscle loss now - post stroke 4 years ago - why ?

[Speedo1968]

In June 2017 I had a stroke complicated with rhabdomyolysis ( over 2 days motionless on floor ) causing creatinine levels of 130,000+ and acute renal failure.
I have a DNR that was respected by both the local govt. hospital and the one I was transferred to in Khon Kaen.   I did refuse dialysis and used alternative treatment measures, allowed by the hospital with some protests by certain doctors but, not by the one who had been treating me previously.

I spent 2 weeks in ICU, my kidneys functioning perfectly, then checked out.

Three months later I was starting to walk and beginning to put on muscle.

A number of past blood tests put my creatinine level at 0.9 - 1.0.    Liver and kidney function fine.
Last year I was regularly walking up to 10km a day ( in to town / road / park ) with early morning ( 3 - 5 am ) and late evening walks.

This year I have been managing less walking and now sometimes find 3km is enough ( park / fields / road ) sometimes I can not even walk the 3km in to town.

My general health is ok and I feel excellent.  I have had high blood pressure which is under control ( 130 - 140 ) with one medicine per day.  My body weight is between 58 - 60kgs for years, my diet ( vegan ) is as it has been for 45+ years, I try to do simple yoga floor exercises for 30 - 60 mins per day and, am trying to strengthen my upper body too.     Yes, I try to have as high as possible protein intake, cook most meals myself, drink plenty of water.   Eat twice per day 7am and 1pm lunchtime.   No alcohol or smoking.

 

My question is:- Why could it be that I am now loosing muscle in arms / legs and perhaps internally too ???    I have no other symptoms.
I intend to visit my local govt. hospital next week.

[robblok]

Maybe your testosterone is low ? You exercises not heavy enough ?

 

Its hard to say is your weight changing too.. because if its not changing then how do you know your losing muscle.

 

I would do a testosterone test to see how your levels are. 

[Sheryl]

Yu do nto mention your age, but muscle mass does diminish with age (sarcopenia)

 

Targeted strength-training exercises and aerobic exercises may help

 

Also suggest you check your testosterone levels

[robblok]

3 minutes ago, AndyAndyAndy said:

Alternative medicine and vegan food.

 

What about listening to a doctors and eating real food?

Nothing wrong with vegan foods if you get enough proteins in. (im not a vegan would not consider it). But it can be healthy as long as you make sure you get enough proteins (in this context about muscle)

[RichardColeman]

28 minutes ago, Speedo1968 said:

Eat twice per day 7am and 1pm lunchtime.  

Could try adding afternoon tea to that regime ! Thought of not eating for 10 hours before bed would kill most on here - including me

[2 is 1]

Like Sheryl say before it's normal for ageing man.Im 48 and alreally have notice, i have to do much more to keep my shape like i want. And yes testosterone is important for that and coz you vegan your level can be low. 

[Bender Rodriguez]

age ?  52 ? your name is 1968...

 

do you know what medicines you got in the hospital ?

 

if it included fluoroquinolones 

 

it might cause damage even years after you took it

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=fluoroquinolones+side+effects

 

The serious side effects include tendonitis, tendon rupture, arthralgia, pain in extremities, gait disturbance, neuropathies associated with paraesthesia, depression, fatigue, memory impairment, sleep disorders, and impaired hearing, vision, taste and smell.

 

[Speedo1968]

6 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Yu do nto mention your age, but muscle mass does diminish with age (sarcopenia)

 

Targeted strength-training exercises and aerobic exercises may help

 

Also suggest you check your testosterone levels

Age 74 in October.
Although weight is pretty constant I now look skinny.
I try to do simple upper body strengthening exercises as I know it is important to help keep body upright, my legs seem to be bending more than before.
Will check testosterone levels next hospital visit.

[Speedo1968]

7 hours ago, robblok said:

Maybe your testosterone is low ? You exercises not heavy enough ?

 

Its hard to say is your weight changing too.. because if its not changing then how do you know your losing muscle.

 

I would do a testosterone test to see how your levels are. 

My weight is changing within a 2kg range 58 - 60kg.
I am now looking skinny.

Having some difficulty in holding up my upper body, my legs bending.   Trying some simple exercises to strengthen back.
Thanks for suggestion about having a testosterone test will do on my next hospital visit in 2 weeks time.

[faraday]

Perhaps you could try some protein supplements, as well?

 

There are many available, & I'm sure there must be some vegan ones.

 

........

 

Just googled it:

 

https://www.phukethealthshop.com/MFL-PLANT-BASED-VEGAN-MUSCLE-PROTEIN-2LB-p146273742

[Speedo1968]

7 hours ago, robblok said:

Nothing wrong with vegan foods if you get enough proteins in. (im not a vegan would not consider it). But it can be healthy as long as you make sure you get enough proteins (in this context about muscle)

Yes protein intake can be difficult, I use things like Besan Gram Flour ( chickpea ), soy and other grains / beans, as well as fruits / vegetables etc.

[Speedo1968]

7 hours ago, RichardColeman said:

Could try adding afternoon tea to that regime ! Thought of not eating for 10 hours before bed would kill most on here - including me

Ah, you see I am in bed well before midnight so asleep before I can feel hungry.

It's fine, I chew my food well not just swallow, it gives a fuller value in nutrition and helps keep my belly full.
My body clock is pretty much set with waking at 3 - 4 am and up 4 to 5am.    I am tired by 9pm.
I am not burning up food by extreme mental or physical exercise.
I had many years of spending time traveling to different countries in ASPAC and elsewhere, I had to eat when time allowed, so I guess waiting 16 hours or so for a definite meal is ok.  

[Speedo1968]

6 hours ago, 2 is 1 said:

Like Sheryl say before it's normal for ageing man.Im 48 and alreally have notice, i have to do much more to keep my shape like i want. And yes testosterone is important for that and coz you vegan your level can be low. 

I'm close to 74 and luckily only just noticing I need to do even MORE to keep all of me in good shape.
Will have that test when I next visit the hospital.

[RichCor]

43 minutes ago, Speedo1968 said:

Age 74 in October.
Although weight is pretty constant I now look skinny.

If your weight is staying pretty constant, and now you 'look skinny', what do you 'think' is happening?

 

...maybe your self assessment is more about losing muscle definition (that results from lack of regular exercise).

 

Because, otherwise, it would indicate your body composition is shifting.

 

[alfalfa19]

with age come many unhappy developments.  i'm 68,  and though i am the same weight i was 25 years ago,  i am 3 inches shorter, and have lost a lot of muscle mass.   and although i still work out a couple hours a day,  it is no longer fun,  and it's very hard to gain muscle mass.  

[scubascuba3]

1 hour ago, alfalfa19 said:

with age come many unhappy developments.  i'm 68,  and though i am the same weight i was 25 years ago,  i am 3 inches shorter, and have lost a lot of muscle mass.   and although i still work out a couple hours a day,  it is no longer fun,  and it's very hard to gain muscle mass.  

if you eat more it just goes on as fat? or can't put weight on?

[Speedo1968]

12 hours ago, RichCor said:

If your weight is staying pretty constant, and now you 'look skinny', what do you 'think' is happening?

 

...maybe your self assessment is more about losing muscle definition (that results from lack of regular exercise).

 

Because, otherwise, it would indicate your body composition is shifting.

 

I exercise daily with both simple yoga floor exercises which pay special attention to body stretching and breathing.   The body stretching aids balance and can stop leg cramps.   I use deep breathing during the exercises.    ( I have some damage to one knee which I must not bend too much. )  Upper body I use weights made from water filled bottles.      I walk for at least one hour per day in a local park and across fields, also around town.    The difference now is that I am feeling more tired from the walking, where I could easily walk the 3km to town, go around the markets etc. and walk back to my house with a backpack of food I now cannot manage the walk in one direction.    I am not out of breath but my legs are very tired.   

As for my weight being "elsewhere", no I am not pot bellied other than from drinking about 3 litres of water per day.

 

I know, and so does one of daughters from experience that over exercising by way of sports training ( competition swimming, pool and sea ) can lead to issues with the heart when older with the heart, perhaps that affects other body muscles as we age.

Will see what test results show, I don't wish to be on medication, been there done that for previous health issues, my health improving once I stopped being a pill box.

[Speedo1968]

1 hour ago, scubascuba3 said:

if you eat more it just goes on as fat? or can't put weight on?

I am shorter now as It is difficult to straighten my legs and when standing, for example preparing food my legs bend at the knees and causes me to lean forwards.    I have to concentrate hard on keeping my legs straight, doesn't hurt but its, shall we say inconvenient.

I eat little in the way of fat as I am on a vegan diet, I do use olive oil for cooking, no added sugar and prefer to eat low sugar fruits.

[donmuang37]

22 hours ago, Sheryl said:

Yu do nto mention your age, but muscle mass does diminish with age (sarcopenia)

 

Targeted strength-training exercises and aerobic exercises may help

 

Also suggest you check your testosterone levels

As usual, Sheryl is spot on.  I have been losing muscle mass, too, for the past few years, but I'm 83. My Dad had the same problem at about age 60. Good luck!

[fantom]

There is a significant difference between animal and vegetable protein. We are designed to operate with at least some animal protein as it contains some amino acids lacking in plant based foods.

 

[Speedo1968]

35 minutes ago, donmuang37 said:

As usual, Sheryl is spot on.  I have been losing muscle mass, too, for the past few years, but I'm 83. My Dad had the same problem at about age 60. Good luck!

Many thanks, yes will certainly follow Sheryls suggestions.

[robertson468]

I think you need to look at your exercise regime.  I am 75 years young and exercise for about 1 hour and 10 minutes 6 days a week.  I do anorobic exercises for about 50 minutes, which includes reps, but not particularly heavy weights, then run on my running machine for about 15 minutes.  I am about the same weight as you and feel great.  Sorry to hear about the stroke and hope you will manage to live a long and happy life.

[Sheryl]

Unhelpful flaming/baiting posts and replies to same have been removed.

 

It is highly unlikely the OP's diet is to blame and this thread is NOT a place to debate vegan diets.

 

It is quite possible to get adequate complete protein on a vegan diet if proper care is taken.

[BritManToo]

Just now, Sheryl said:

It is quite possible to get adequate complete protein on a vegan diet if proper care is taken.

I mix with a lot of Vegan cyclists, they all inject B12.

[Sheryl]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

I mix with a lot of Vegan cyclists, they all inject B12.

 

This is a good point, actually - OP you should get your cobalamin levels checked along with your testosterone as you might be B12 deficient.

 

That would not cause visible loss of muscle mass but could explain the reduced strength in your legs

 

If you do nto already do so, sublingual B12 supplement may be wise

 

 

[BritManToo]

3 hours ago, Speedo1968 said:

I know, and so does one of daughters from experience that over exercising by way of sports training ( competition swimming, pool and sea ) can lead to issues with the heart when older with the heart, perhaps that affects other body muscles as we age.

Disagree,

Muscles (heart) aren't damaged by exercise, joints are though.

64 now, as I've got older my hiking in the mountains has reduced (10Km max), and my cycling has increased (20Km/day).

 

I've never found walking on level ground to be that beneficial for weight control.

Edited July 24, 2020 by BritManToo

[BritManToo]

1 minute ago, Sheryl said:

That would not cause visible loss of muscle mass but could explain the reduced strength in your legs

That's the exact reason they say they inject the B12.

Apparently they can't do the hill climbs without it.

Edited July 24, 2020 by BritManToo

[RichCor]

3 hours ago, Speedo1968 said:

I am shorter now as It is difficult to straighten my legs and when standing, for example preparing food my legs bend at the knees and causes me to lean forwards.    I have to concentrate hard on keeping my legs straight, doesn't hurt but its, shall we say inconvenient.

Do you have an inability to 'lock' your knees (for standing in an upright position for long periods without effort)? Is this a side-effect of the previous stroke, or of the mentioned knee issue? 

[Moo 2]

Nothing with being a vegan, just looking at monkeys and gorillas, that's all they eat,

I would not want to wrestling one in a fight, mind you they're a bit like Mike Tyson,

they also bite! 

[Autonuaq]

Keep in mind after 28-32 years of age your body changes and will become older and older and show changes. That is a part of life.

When look up you will see that around age 50 muscle will change and lose power, strength.

Have a look at your skin and hair.

 

When you look in the mirror the person you see is when you look well starting to have old skin wrinkling also caused by the same process that causes your muscles problems.

 

Some use plastic fantastic to try to stop it. Or even use fillers.

 

Just accept that you age older makes you also happier.

 

There is now a new generation taken your place like you have done it too in the past.