Are asking prices in existing developments "realistic"?

[JTXR]

Folks who hang out on this forum are not "the market" anymore.  A much more realistic picture would be gotten by posting the OP's original question on a Chinese-language forum. Lots of new condo units are being snapped up by the dozens and hundreds by Chinese investors who will sell to their countrymen, if not now, then 1 or 3 or 5 years from now.

[Ventenio]

People are STARTING to get how soft the market is....

 

i saw something for only 4000 baht.  i said 2000.  they laughed.  1 hour later, they said 3000.  then 5 hours later ... 2500.  then 2300.  then 2200.  I wasn't interested anymore, but this wasn't happening last year.  

 

i'll never buy property here (unless massive changes)....but if they want 15 million you say 10 million.  they will say 12.5 and you say 10.  give it a little time.  

[Airalee]

13 minutes ago, JTXR said:

Folks who hang out on this forum are not "the market" anymore.  A much more realistic picture would be gotten by posting the OP's original question on a Chinese-language forum. Lots of new condo units are being snapped up by the dozens and hundreds by Chinese investors who will sell to their countrymen, if not now, then 1 or 3 or 5 years from now.

The Chinese aren’t the market either.  Right now, western hotel chains are “snapping up” hundreds of units in some of the more desirable mid range buildings.  Wyndham (Kew Green Hotels), a UK firm has recently purchased 425 units in 4 Siamese Asset buildings to be used as hotel rooms.  Granted, there are lots of Chinese (and Japanese) purchasers, but the individual condo buyers now have to compete with the corporate big fish.

 

 

[rwill]

It's up to what the banks are willing to finance it for.

[khunPer]

On 7/25/2020 at 4:59 AM, charliebadenhop said:

Is this mostly because I don't really understand the market, or....??

 

Especially when I see places selling for in excess of 30 mil, I say, "holy mackerel, are people really spending more than $US 1 mil for a house here?!?!"

Yes, you probably don't understand the market, as in some areas, some people seems to gladly pay 30+ million baht for a luxury villas in the right location.

 

A real price is not what's asked for, but what something is actually sold for. When you know what something similar to what to are looking at is recently sold for, you have a fair price indication; however, a Thai seller might not always agree...

 

My next door neighbor recently sold his prime-spot villa for equivalent to almost US$2 million, he was asking for 69 million baht. Villas in the 70 million baht asking range are not uncommon in the area where I live, but you can also find affordable small houses for around 4-5 million baht, depending of location. A 250 square meter land plot next to me, with an old house to be taken down, asked for 11 million baht, and sold it within a week for 9 million baht cash hardly two years ago.

 

The highest priced private villa I've seen advertised in the area where I live was 475 million baht, it's somewhere between $14 million and $15 million depending of exchange rate; I however don't know what the actual sales price was.

 

And what do folks in US pay for a villa at the right Beverly Hills location, it's often not only the house that is so costly – of course they are not budget constructions in that area – but merely the location that beats up the price...????

[AlfHuy]

1 hour ago, andy said:

I watched a vlog on Youtube the other day.  Expat was building a house on a plot of land in Cha Am, and was being interviewed by another expat.  Although the house wasn't finished yet, this guy suggested he could sell it later if he wanted to...for 25 million baht ????.  The interviewer suggested that he might have difficulty finding a buyer (understatement of the year).

 

Have looked on and off at the Bangkok condo market.  Same issue.  Anything in a new-ish building, the asking price is nuts, even for small units.

I saw the same. The Australian guy showing off his mansion. 23 Million in Cha Am 555

Better pay attention that your wife and her big family and maybe ex husband (if there is one),don't get the taste of money and welcome him, to make his luggage and move to a 1 bed rental flat.

[bkk6060]

2 hours ago, Deli said:

Checked some prices in Cha Am, totally outta discussion and off market.

Asking for ruins 3 to 4 millions. Rennovation would cost the same again.

Huh?

 

A person can easily renovate a poorly conditioned unit for about 500,000 b or less.

Remember, this is not a western country.

[eisfeld]

On 7/25/2020 at 5:14 AM, AlfHuy said:

15%/6,000.000=900,000

15%/6,000.000 = 0.000025

 

15%*6,000,000 = 900,000.000

[Thingamabob]

Many Thais have proceeds from the black economy to launder through investments in property.

[Susco]

4 hours ago, JTXR said:

Folks who hang out on this forum are not "the market" anymore.  A much more realistic picture would be gotten by posting the OP's original question on a Chinese-language forum. Lots of new condo units are being snapped up by the dozens and hundreds by Chinese investors who will sell to their countrymen, if not now, then 1 or 3 or 5 years from now.

Chinese are buying a lot of property in Thailand because a : They want their money out of China and b : properties in Thailand cost peanuts compared to what a similar property cost in China

[onekoolguy]

I bought a condo in Siratcha a few years ago. It was preconstruction and was completed and turned over to me 3 years ago.  It's in a very nice building 8th floor corner unit 1 bedroom 45 sq meters. Never used it and put it on the market 2 years ago. Paid about 4mil with furnishings. Now in escrow for 2.5 Million less commissions and closing costs.

This gives you an idea of how the market is. There probably won't be discounts on new units but existing housing is ripe for deals!

I will replace my unit with something in Hua Hin. However now I know what the real market is and will make offers way below asking prices! Unfortunately most of the Realtors that I have found are not very knowledgeable. Same as in the USA.

[MadMuhammad]

On 7/25/2020 at 10:17 AM, worgeordie said:

It's a buyers market out there,with all the oversupply of properties,

and with the covid crisis,lack of buyers,any property is only worth

what you are willing to pay for it.

regards worgeordie

 

Agreed. I just negotiated a 6.5mil listed new home down to 4.8mil. 

[newnative]

On 7/25/2020 at 11:47 AM, AlfHuy said:

That is what I would consider.

An old building, better quality, much bigger.

I don't need the fancy lobby. A good quality building which I could refurbish to my taste.

A friend of mine bought recently a 200m2 apartment and did a full refurbishment. He paid 4,8Million, close to Mega Bangna.

     Yes, some people are buying 30MB houses.  And others are buying smallish 48 sqm 1 bedroom condos in super-luxury condo projects in Bangkok for 13MB or more.  Projects that have everything under the sun except space.  Even with covid, buyers are still out there.  My partner and I just sold the last condo we had up for sale--and it was in the over 10MB price range.  Covid or no covid, there are still buyers with money, including Thais--several of the interested buyers were Thai families.

    The last few condos my partner and I have bought have been in older buildings.  As you say, the quality can be better and the units are generally larger.  Plus, they are less likely to be plagued with illegal daily renters than new projects.  My partner and I would much rather buy an un-renovated condo than one that has been renovated badly and/or not to our taste.  Better to start with a fresh slate and put your own stamp on it. 

     As far as pricing goes, as sometimes a buyer and sometimes a seller I try to price fairly and realistically and look for the same.  When I sell, I price to make a profit I am comfortable with.  I could try to get more and sit on the condo for years but I prefer to sell and move on.  This last condo sale was our 20th in Thailand. 

     As a buyer, I do find projects over-priced--including the example I gave of the 48 sqm Bangkok condo for 13MB.  Instead of buying in that new Bangkok project, I bought across the street in a building built in 2013.  I got a bigger unit in almost as nice a project for 6MB.  We'll spend about 500,000 B to re-do the kitchen, tweak the bath, add new furniture, window treatments, fix a balcony design problem, wallpaper, artwork, and electronics to make it ours.

     

[BritManToo]

On 7/25/2020 at 9:59 AM, charliebadenhop said:

Especially when I see places selling for in excess of 30 mil, I say, "holy mackerel, are people really spending more than $US 1 mil for a house here?!?!"

I paid 1.8Mbht for my her house ..... well I paid 300k and the bank paid 1M5.

That was more than enough IMHO. Decent views too!

Edited July 27, 2020 by BritManToo

[AlfHuy]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I paid 1.8Mbht for my her house ..... well I paid 300k and the bank paid 1M5.

That was more than enough IMHO. Decent views too!

is this on Sukhumvit in BKK?

[KKr]

On 7/25/2020 at 11:07 AM, Oldie said:

The strong Baht is caused by international speculators - many of them sitting in western countries. The whole Asian crises was caused by them. I am afraid you blame the wrong ones. 

that old international speculators chestnut again.

Some background to the Strong Baht and why it is strong here
(posted earlier already at least one of these):
https://asia.nikkei.com/Economy/Strong-baht-a-mixed-blessing
https://asia.nikkei.com/Opinion/Thailand-s-problem-Too-much-success

[Oldie]

5 minutes ago, KKr said:

that old international speculators chestnut again.

Some background to the Strong Baht and why it is strong here
(posted earlier already at least one of these):
https://asia.nikkei.com/Economy/Strong-baht-a-mixed-blessing
https://asia.nikkei.com/Opinion/Thailand-s-problem-Too-much-success

It is like this even in your article. International investors and speculators pump money into Thailand. It is just the speculation to get good returns and Thailand suffers because of the high Baht. You can take the Baht, Bitcoins or whatever. It is always the same game.

 

Look at Switzerland. They have negative interest rates to fight off foreign capital inflows. A high CHF would damage their economy. A high THB can do the same. And if Thailand tries to do something against it the US blames them as Currency Manipulator. Their speculators are probably the biggest manipulators... 

[KKr]

1 hour ago, Oldie said:

It is like this even in your article. International investors and speculators pump money into Thailand. It is just the speculation to get good returns and Thailand suffers because of the high Baht. You can take the Baht, Bitcoins or whatever. It is always the same game.

 

Look at Switzerland. They have negative interest rates to fight off foreign capital inflows. A high CHF would damage their economy. A high THB can do the same. And if Thailand tries to do something against it the US blames them as Currency Manipulator. Their speculators are probably the biggest manipulators... 

from the article:
""
Execution is what really matters. At the moment, more attention and energy are aimed at lowering the baht than raising competitiveness. This focus presents its own risks in the Donald Trump era. The U.S. president is eyeing Thailand's $19 billion trade surplus with Washington. Thailand also risks being added to the U.S. Treasury Department's monitoring list of currency manipulators.

The bigger risk, though, is that today's currency dramas distract Prayuth's government from building a more vibrant and inclusive tomorrow. The money zooming Thailand's way is a vote of confidence for getting the foundation right these last 22 years.

Why not take the hint -- and the compliment -- and accelerate efforts to construct the economy Thailand 69 million people deserve? Moving upmarket would reap bigger dividends than fighting traders betting on Bangkok's success.

 

William Pesek is an award-winning Tokyo-based journalist 
""

there is a huge difference between "hot money" investors and investors in Industry.
"Hot money" may come and go at the whim of a computer program or a person. That has been addressed by limiting the amount that can be held. Less then 10 million dollar is maybe part of a portfolio, but does not move a more or less open market, even if hundred fold.
Industrial investment stays, and is not only bringing in cash, I am certain that a fair amount is exported again for purchases of production equipment, but moreover investment creates jobs, and revenue.

Rebuilding the Economy to a diversified model, with raised competitiveness and focus on adding value will long term bring a better balance between local buying power and cost of living, and a level of indifference to what the value of the Baht is.

[Oldie]

21 minutes ago, KKr said:

from the article:
""
Execution is what really matters. At the moment, more attention and energy are aimed at lowering the baht than raising competitiveness. This focus presents its own risks in the Donald Trump era. The U.S. president is eyeing Thailand's $19 billion trade surplus with Washington. Thailand also risks being added to the U.S. Treasury Department's monitoring list of currency manipulators.

The bigger risk, though, is that today's currency dramas distract Prayuth's government from building a more vibrant and inclusive tomorrow. The money zooming Thailand's way is a vote of confidence for getting the foundation right these last 22 years.

Why not take the hint -- and the compliment -- and accelerate efforts to construct the economy Thailand 69 million people deserve? Moving upmarket would reap bigger dividends than fighting traders betting on Bangkok's success.

 

William Pesek is an award-winning Tokyo-based journalist 
""

there is a huge difference between "hot money" investors and investors in Industry.
"Hot money" may come and go at the whim of a computer program or a person. That has been addressed by limiting the amount that can be held. Less then 10 million dollar is maybe part of a portfolio, but does not move a more or less open market, even if hundred fold.
Industrial investment stays, and is not only bringing in cash, I am certain that a fair amount is exported again for purchases of production equipment, but moreover investment creates jobs, and revenue.

Rebuilding the Economy to a diversified model, with raised competitiveness and focus on adding value will long term bring a better balance between local buying power and cost of living, and a level of indifference to what the value of the Baht is.

The higher the Baht goes the less foreign investments will come. Even worse. The existing economy will be less competitive and suffer. Existing production could move to other countries. Thailand has a lot of exports and also tourism. For both a too high Baht exchange rate could cause a lot of damage. 

[KKr]

On 7/27/2020 at 7:18 PM, Oldie said:

The higher the Baht goes the less foreign investments will come. Even worse. The existing economy will be less competitive and suffer. Existing production could move to other countries. Thailand has a lot of exports and also tourism. For both a too high Baht exchange rate could cause a lot of damage. 

that is how it is, called the hog-cycle in Chicago.
returns are good, money flows in until there is no more competitive advantage, and then money flows out until supply and demand are overshooting balance after which prices start to rise again.

[RotBenz8888]

I would want to rent the unit for 3-6 months before I make up my mind to buy , is that a common practice here in Thailand ? 

[jadee]

5 hours ago, RotBenz8888 said:

I would want to rent the unit for 3-6 months before I make up my mind to buy , is that a common practice here in Thailand ? 

It's not a common practice, but it's a brilliant idea - more people should do it! It lets you really experience what a place is like to live in at all hours of the day (not just at select times when you view it).
I currently live in a unit that I bought 10 years ago and wish I'd rented first - would have saved a few nasty surprises, particularly night time noise. The first few years (2010-12) were tough but then things changed and the last 8 years have been great. So things can go up and down.