U.S. coronavirus deaths top 150,000 as economy suffers further

[Chomper Higgot]

23 minutes ago, scammed said:

i think the shut down of economy is more costly then the loss of retirees to the society,

and i find it unethical to tax unborn generations 

You pedal your misanthropic ‘sacrifice the old for the economy’ and then have the effrontery to talk about what you find unethical.

[scammed]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You pedal your misanthropic ‘sacrifice the old for the economy’ and then have the effrontery to talk about what you find unethical.

i view it the other way around, the old folks clinging onto life that is due

at the cost of generations not yet born

[Berkshire]

22 minutes ago, scammed said:

i think the shut down of economy is more costly then the loss of retirees to the society,

and i find it unethical to tax unborn generations 

How can you possibly know how many lives were saved as a result of the shutdown?  For comparison sake, we have drunk driving laws which undoubtedly saved lives.  How many lives exactly, we have no way of knowing.  At least with drunk drivers, we had historical data.  With COVID, we have nothing. 

 

I should add that your indifference to the "loss of retirees to the society" is rather alarming.  Aren't you yourself a retiree?

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

How can you possibly know how many lives were saved as a result of the shutdown?  For comparison sake, we have drunk driving laws which undoubtedly saved lives.  How many lives exactly, we have no way of knowing.  At least with drunk drivers, we had historical data.  With COVID, we have nothing. 

 

I should add that your indifference to the "loss of retirees to the society" is rather alarming.  Aren't you yourself a retiree?

It’s not indifference, it’s trolling and baiting.

 

A rather troublesome pattern of behavior for someone who only joined on the 17th of this month.

[scammed]

8 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

How can you possibly know how many lives were saved as a result of the shutdown?  For comparison sake, we have drunk driving laws which undoubtedly saved lives.  How many lives exactly, we have no way of knowing.  At least with drunk drivers, we had historical data.  With COVID, we have nothing. 

 

I should add that your indifference to the "loss of retirees to the society" is rather alarming.  Aren't you yourself a retiree?

yes i am, and i dont want to be a burden to future generations, it reflect badly on me,

and it reflect badly on me when policy are being made that imply i support it

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, Bkk Brian said:

"Hospitals and doctors do get paid more for Medicare patients diagnosed with COVID-19 or if it's considered presumed they have COVID-19 absent a laboratory-confirmed test, and three times more if the patients are placed on a ventilator to cover the cost of care and loss of business resulting from a shift in focus to treat COVID-19 cases."

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fact-check-medicare-hospitals-paid-more-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/

 

However there's no evidence the system is being gamed

That refers to payment for Covid-19 treatments, not extra payments in case of Covid-19 deaths.

[Blue Muton]

57 minutes ago, Tippaporn said:

I'll speak for myself.  The truth.  As to your "irrefutable" evidence I would say much of it is refutable.  Too much distortion due to bias which you're blind to and unwilling to recognize.

Well when he is on camera and on the record as saying something one day then denies saying it the following day there's irrefutible evidence without any distortion and I'm not the one choosing to ignore it.

 

How about, for example his claim when Obama was president that "Obama plays too much golf" and that he (Trump), if elected would play less.

 

Did Trump say that?

 

Has Trump played less often?

 

Was it a truthful claim or a lie?

 

Do please try your best to answer without distortion or bias. I won't be holding my breath.

[Opl]

27 minutes ago, scammed said:

you must think im an american liberal,

i dont care much for US domestic politics but 

the trump bashing around covid is nonsense

To hold Trump accountable for his non sensical ideas about COVID-19 is not bashing.

To make life and death decisions based on his sole self-interest to be reelected is what brings us to discuss about US domestic politics. 

  

[scammed]

14 minutes ago, Opl said:

To hold Trump accountable for his non sensical ideas about COVID-19 is not bashing.

To make life and death decisions based on his sole self-interest to be reelected is what brings us to discuss about US domestic politics. 

  

yes, he had some dumb comments about virus,

but en large he dont make a difference and neither does anyone else

[stevenl]

2 minutes ago, scammed said:

yes, he had some dumb comments about virus,

but en large he dont make a difference and neither does anyone else

How can you say something like that when you see big differences between the countries.

 

No need to reply.

[Opl]

2 minutes ago, scammed said:

yes, he had some dumb comments about virus,

but en large he dont make a difference and neither does anyone else

It makes the difference when it comes to his own health.

"I personally think testing is overrated, even though I created the greatest testing machine in history," (Trump) 

https://www.businessinsider.fr/us/trump-coronavirus-testing-is-overrated-makes-us-look-bad-2020-6

 

[Eric Loh]

7 minutes ago, scammed said:

yes, he had some dumb comments about virus,

but en large he dont make a difference and neither does anyone else

He don’t make a difference because he was and is still doing nothing to lead the fight against the pandemic. He has given up leadership of the pandemic and moved on to easier targets for the purpose of self preservation for the up coming election. 

[Morch]

4 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

You missed the point completely and then decided to create a fabricated point out of your own imagination to ascribe to me.  Not fooled.

 

Well, you don't seem to have a problem going on about generalized fabricated imaginary points supposedly claimed by anti-Trump posters, and yet refuse to address actual nonsense points made by the President. Also, don't recall you having much issues with posters sharing your political views co-opting this or that scientific information in order to bolster their agenda. Apparently, it's just a problem when anti-Trump posters are at it.

[Tippaporn]

1 hour ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

The one sentence I left out from your quote was “who are you trying to kid”. And leaving that out does not change that you seem to be convinced that science is about viewpoints. Anyway, nice try deflecting. 

I had replied to mtls2005's specific comment:  "Attacking mask use, and real doctors and scientists, is counter-productive."  My comment was meant to point out that people have a tendency to give legitimacy to the doctors and science they agree with by using the qualifier "real."  Conversely, they label doctors or science which refute their views as "fake."

 

mtls2005 responded to which I replied back:  "Simply pointing out what people do.  It's all too obvious."

 

ChouDouFu chimed in and my reply to him was:  "Neither am I defending nor renouncing one doctor over another.  Simply pointing out that people will claim as truth one doctor "real" and another "fake" depending on how it suits their purposes.  And saying that I'm not fooled."

 

You later quipped:  "...says the person who thinks science is about “viewpoints,”"  to which I replied:  "Never said that or claimed it.  Your bias affecting your reading comprehension?"

 

It's only too obvious what my original point was.  People have comprehension issues, misinterpret what's real, insert their own made up interpretations, pass them off as truth and go on and on about it.  According to one poster, "I was owned."  LOL

[Jonnapat]

7 hours ago, rumak said:

riots ,  high unemployment,  economy in shambles, bankruptcies .........

 

Dow stocks rose another 160 points last night. 

 

Amazing USA 

And the rich continue to add to their vast fortunes

[welovesundaysatspace]

Quote

My comment was meant to point out that people have a tendency to give legitimacy to the doctors and science they agree with by using the qualifier "real."  Conversely, they label doctors or science which refute their views as "fake." (...)

 

You later quipped:  "...says the person who thinks science is about “viewpoints,”"  to which I replied:  "Never said that or claimed it.  Your bias affecting your reading comprehension?"

Do you even realize how you’re contradicting yourself? (Highlights by me)

[metisdead]

Some more off topic posts, controversial posts and the replies have been removed.  

[steelepulse]

To put things in a numerical perspective.  330,000,000 people, 150K deaths , or .00045 or .045% of the population.  If my math is right, that is 4.5 people out of 1000 people.  Is this number worth shutting down the whole economy when it could have been avoided by protecting the elderly and the obese and those with co morbidities? If you fall into the 4.5 group, then you better get your immunity system stronger, stop the bad diet, and start exercising.

 

At least half of all deaths were from retirement communities which should have been protected, thanks Gov Cuomo for the NY contribution.

[Tippaporn]

59 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

  

2 hours ago, Tippaporn said:

I'll speak for myself.  The truth.  As to your "irrefutable" evidence I would say much of it is refutable.  Too much distortion due to bias which you're blind to and unwilling to recognize.

Well when he is on camera and on the record as saying something one day then denies saying it the following day there's irrefutible evidence without any distortion and I'm not the one choosing to ignore it.

 

How about, for example his claim when Obama was president that "Obama plays too much golf" and that he (Trump), if elected would play less.

 

Did Trump say that?

 

Has Trump played less often?

 

Was it a truthful claim or a lie?

 

Do please try your best to answer without distortion or bias. I won't be holding my breath.

Had to attach my original post in order to point out the qualifier so you don't miss it.  "As to your "irrefutable" evidence I would say much of it is refutable."

 

Trump's human and he will make mistakes, just like all the posters here.  So, yeah, no surprise that people will catch him when he missteps.  Hence my qualifier.

 

But, rather than using examples of frivolous issues like golf try the important ones, such as "Trump is using the riots to deflect from his coronavirus failings."  I'm not quoting you but only using an oft levied charge against Trump with the claim that it's "true."  All sorts of things will be cited in support, they'll be tied together using twisted logic, and the claim made that the "evidence is irrefutable."  LOL

[Morch]

1 minute ago, Tippaporn said:

Had to attach my original post in order to point out the qualifier so you don't miss it.  "As to your "irrefutable" evidence I would say much of it is refutable."

 

Trump's human and he will make mistakes, just like all the posters here.  So, yeah, no surprise that people will catch him when he missteps.  Hence my qualifier.

 

But, rather than using examples of frivolous issues like golf try the important ones, such as "Trump is using the riots to deflect from his coronavirus failings."  I'm not quoting you but only using an oft levied charge against Trump with the claim that it's "true."  All sorts of things will be cited in support, they'll be tied together using twisted logic, and the claim made that the "evidence is irrefutable."  LOL

 

Reading Trump supporters' posts on here, and following Trump statements, interviews and tweets, seems like admitting mistakes were/are made is not much of thing. Rather the opposite, apparently hardly anything negative is Trump's responsibility or a product of his decisions/words/policies.

 

As usual, your faux objective stance fails to be applied to the side you support. 

[Tippaporn]

20 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Do you even realize how you’re contradicting yourself? (Highlights by me)

Buddy, if it's still confusing to you I'm not going to beat a dead horse for you.  Live with your own misinterpretations and go in peace.

[Berkshire]

10 minutes ago, steelepulse said:

To put things in a numerical perspective.  330,000,000 people, 150K deaths , or .00045 or .045% of the population.  If my math is right, that is 4.5 people out of 1000 people.  Is this number worth shutting down the whole economy when it could have been avoided by protecting the elderly and the obese and those with co morbidities? If you fall into the 4.5 group, then you better get your immunity system stronger, stop the bad diet, and start exercising.

 

At least half of all deaths were from retirement communities which should have been protected, thanks Gov Cuomo for the NY contribution.

The number of COVID deaths you quote are as of today.  No doubt that figure will go up, so the percentage of the population figure will go up.  Guaranteed. 

 

But you seem to ignore the fact that even people who survive COVID--both young and old--may have long term health issues.  It's not like the flu or common cold.  Much better to simply avoid getting it in the first place.

 

[However, recent studies have shown that even when patients survive the coronavirus — which most do — the disease can have long-lasting effects such as brain and heart damage that could take months or longer to recover from.]

["Their heart, their lungs, their blood vessels, you know, their kidneys, it really does affect all the organs," Kass explained. "There will be evidence of this having really detrimental effects on the body."]

[One recent study from the U.K. found troubling signs of "brain complications" in severe coronavirus patients — and while the complications were more likely to result in a stroke in older people, younger people also showed signs of confusion and newly-diagnosed psychiatric conditions.]

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-doctor-warns-chronically-ill-patients-young-people-take-covid-19-seriously/

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

Commercial pilot Rob Koreman of Fort Lauderdale, Florida, said he had been stunned by the climbing numbers.

 

"I'm a pilot and hit so many cities, so many people on board, I have to be aware," said Koreman, 50. "Basically, none of this should have happened. We needed state coordination, if not flat-out a federal mandate."

 

Florida reported another record in one-day deaths on Wednesday, 217, according to state health officials.

 

And in related news, at least a few Floridians are beginning to regret the fact that they helped elect Trump as president in 2016, especially now that 150,000+ dead Americans have paid the ultimate price for those votes.

 

I wanted to tell the guy quoted in the article, "Hey Buddy, write to the White House and to its lackey in the Florida State House." But don't expect any real answers or response, because neither of them are listening or even seem to particularly care.

 

[Chomper Higgot]

34 minutes ago, steelepulse said:

To put things in a numerical perspective.  330,000,000 people, 150K deaths , or .00045 or .045% of the population.  If my math is right, that is 4.5 people out of 1000 people.  Is this number worth shutting down the whole economy when it could have been avoided by protecting the elderly and the obese and those with co morbidities? If you fall into the 4.5 group, then you better get your immunity system stronger, stop the bad diet, and start exercising.

 

At least half of all deaths were from retirement communities which should have been protected, thanks Gov Cuomo for the NY contribution.

Putting aside the fact the spread of the virus is still accelerating your post implies a nationally coordinated and managed response to the virus.

 

Which of course has been missing from the start.

[steelepulse]

My math was off.  It's 4.5 people out of 10,000 people.  With an ifr of between .2% and .65% of the whole population, if you fall into the category of at risk, maybe it's time to do something about it.  

 

Of course if you're under 65 ( which it seems like the average person on ThaiVisa is not) then your chances of having something serious is exponentially lower.

 

I realize there are a lot of unhealthy blue hairs on TV, but for the rest of us, time to live life while protecting said blue hairs and those with weakened immune systems. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 minutes ago, steelepulse said:

My math was off.  It's 4.5 people out of 10,000 people.  With an ifr of between .2% and .65% of the whole population, if you fall into the category of at risk, maybe it's time to do something about it.  

 

Of course if you're under 65 ( which it seems like the average person on ThaiVisa is not) then your chances of having something serious is exponentially lower.

 

I realize there are a lot of unhealthy blue hairs on TV, but for the rest of us, time to live life while protecting said blue hairs and those with weakened immune systems. 

 

The part you're missing (presumably intentionally) is, those younger people who have lesser risks of dying and perhaps getting seriously ill have just as much a chance of becoming infected as anyone else, and then turning around and spreading the infection to their families, friends, etc etc. And out of that, more people are going to get sick and more people are going to die, as exactly is occurring right now around the U.S.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I see from Johns Hopkins daily CV report for July 29, Trump and the Republicans in the Senate now have a new plan for attacking the coronavirus via their proposed relief bill... literally....

 

Quote

According to multiple reports, including by The Washington Post, the draft Republican bill includes funding for several major Department of Defense (DOD) programs and a new FBI building. The DOD funding includes ships, aircraft, and other weapons systems—including the Expeditionary Fast Transport amphibious cargo ship and F-35 fighter aircraft—as well as reimbursements for military contractors that kept workers employed while work was suspended due to COVID-19. Reportedly, the weapons systems and programs funded under the bill include some that were defunded when US President Donald Trump repurposed DOD funding to construct portions of a wall along the US-Mexico border.

 

Glad to see the Senate Republicans are really looking out for what matters when it comes to CV relief.     

 

Ohh and meanwhile, if you're coronavirus unemployed in the U.S., get ready for your unemployment benefits to get cut and/or reduced courtesy of Trump and the Republicans... always watching out for the little people.

 

 

[Nigel Garvie]

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

I had replied to mtls2005's specific comment:  "Attacking mask use, and real doctors and scientists, is counter-productive."  My comment was meant to point out that people have a tendency to give legitimacy to the doctors and science they agree with by using the qualifier "real."  Conversely, they label doctors or science which refute their views as "fake."

 

mtls2005 responded to which I replied back:  "Simply pointing out what people do.  It's all too obvious."

 

ChouDouFu chimed in and my reply to him was:  "Neither am I defending nor renouncing one doctor over another.  Simply pointing out that people will claim as truth one doctor "real" and another "fake" depending on how it suits their purposes.  And saying that I'm not fooled."

 

You later quipped:  "...says the person who thinks science is about “viewpoints,”"  to which I replied:  "Never said that or claimed it.  Your bias affecting your reading comprehension?"

 

It's only too obvious what my original point was.  People have comprehension issues, misinterpret what's real, insert their own made up interpretations, pass them off as truth and go on and on about it.  According to one poster, "I was owned."  LOL

Just a small point here that relates to most of what you wrote. 

 

SCIENCE IS A METHOD, NOT AN OPINION, OR A BELIEF SYSTEM LIKE RELIGION. 

 

It is based on evidence accumulated from research and endless exhaustive tests and trials. Science does not claim it has all the answers, it reflects the evidence known to date. Doubt is a key element to good science, the ability to challenge and change the conclusions based on new information. This is what Fauci did incidentally. Trump is averse to evidence in the same way that vampires are averse to wooden stakes. 

 

That, as you say, there are good and bad scientists there is no doubt, let alone the fake scientists all over the web who are not scientists at all.  Such bearers of false witness inevitably come to grief when faced with the facts. 

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, Tippaporn said:

Buddy, if it's still confusing to you I'm not going to beat a dead horse for you.  Live with your own misinterpretations and go in peace.

I didn’t interpret. I let your own words speak for itself. (See how my post only included your very own words?) 

[chilli42]

8 hours ago, Tarteso said:

Interesting point. But not so much differences between the obesity group of non hispanics blacks; 49’6%. Hispanics; 44’8 and non hispanics whites; 42’2%.

Finall Asians; 17’4%.

 

Mcdonalds and BBQ, works for everybody.

https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html

 

The numbers I am seeing is that 40% of the US adult population has one or more of the conditions (obesity, diabetes, pulmonary) that lead to complications when Covid infected.  Not much different than your numbers.  It certainly suggests that the number of Covid deaths in the US will be higher than some countries.  That said, the number of deaths in the total population from Covid are vanishingly small.  I guess that is why the press like to express Covid deaths in absolute numbers ... sounds bigger.