End of visa amnesty may spell uncertainty for some expats in Thailand

[mokwit]

Just now, Raphus said:

This letter and new stipulation looks more like a new control being put in place which gives local immigration officers less decision making power. The decision to forward every application to a higher level for review seems to be further clarification that the government want to really start counting what aliens are in the country. Moreover, this control measure will invariably weed out those living in Thailand and jumping in and out of the country without any real permanent base/home. 
I honestly think it is to clear out the nomads, as opposed to legitimate workers and residents married or otherwise.

Exactly the point I was making on a related thread.

[tallfelllow]

I am hearing that they are working with Malaysia to designate Penang as a Covid Free Zone the same as they want to do with Koh Samui and Phuket .If they can reach an agreement it will mean that people from Thailand will be able to fly to Penang go to the Embassy and as long as they stay on Penang they will be able to fly back to Thailand. 

They are hoping to have something in place by October. 

[Percy P]

5 hours ago, Lizard2010 said:

You would think that keeping Xpats in Thailand would be good

After all we put Millions into the Thai econamy

Who has been help keep the country going in the last few months  Xpats of course

Correct. Since the amnesty I've spent thousands of Baht in the country . Technically I've saved  on not having to depart every 90days,+visa fees but in reality I've saved nothing. I can't wait for the boarders to open . Penang here I come. 

[Neeranam]

6 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Non-O multi entry are also used by those who prefer not to keep 400,000 baht in a Thai bank

Diplomatic way of saying those who can't meet the requirements. 

[Mike Teavee]

10 minutes ago, tallfelllow said:

I am hearing that they are working with Malaysia to designate Penang as a Covid Free Zone the same as they want to do with Koh Samui and Phuket .If they can reach an agreement it will mean that people from Thailand will be able to fly to Penang go to the Embassy and as long as they stay on Penang they will be able to fly back to Thailand. 

They are hoping to have something in place by October. 

That's a crazy idea as you would have to have border control on the bridges into/out of Penang (As you would with Phuket if they designate it as a Covid Free zone).

 

Langkawi would be a better option but even that is stupid as they should just let people do a "Border Bounce" at immigration offices.

 

[Peter Denis]

1 hour ago, taxin said:

Really ? Immigration will grant one year extension of stay based on 40K abroad transfer ? I was not aware of this, can anyone add further clarification of this ?

Yes, you can also use the Monthly Income Transfer method, when applying for a 1-year extension based on your Non Imm O Visa for reason of marriage.

And that would be of particular interest for those that were not able to get hold of the 400K, and now have insufficient time left to meet the 2 month seasoning requirements for the 400K when wanting to apply before 26 Sept (end of Amnesty).

 

Note: Some IOs will not accept your application for the 1-year extension of stay when you are on the Amnesty extension, and want you to first apply for a 60-day extension of stay for reason of visiting your thai wife (if you did not already use it) so that you are on a 'valid' permission of stay.  Most IOs will let such 60-day extension of stay start on day of application, and in that case it is recommended to wait with the application till the end of the Amnesty, providing you with a permission to stay till 24 November (which will provide you with sufficient time to meet the 2-months seasoning requirements when using the 400K funds-in-bank method).

 

When having already used up your 60-day extension of stay and your IO is willing to accept your application for the 1-year of stay >

When using the +40K Monthly income Transfer method and applying FIRST time for the 1-year extension of stay (as all Me Non Imm O marriage Visa holders will be doing), this would require you to transfer +40K in month of August and +40K in month of September. 

Using that +40K Monthly Income Transfer method the foreign origins of those transfers have to proven, and your local IO might also require you to provide evidence of the SOURCE of that foreign income (e.g. a pension statement from your pension provider or an Embassy issued foreign income statement or a large foreign savings-account).

Note: Some IOs require - incorrectly - 3 of such monthly income transfers.

 

>> I compiled a document outlining how to get hold of the evidence that the +40K you transferred originated from abroad (irrespective of the method you used to transfer these funds or the Thai bank where you have a personal thai bank-account to which you transferred the funds).

Just PM me if you like to receive a copy.

 

Note that contrary to the 400K funds-in-bank method, that you do not need to keep the funds on your personal thai bank-account for two months seasoning + the under consideration period, and that you can freely use the +40K transferred for your living expenses.  You only need to show that the +40K has been transferred (with foreign origins proven) to your Thai bank-account in each of the 2 months preceding the date of application for your 1-year extension of stay.  

Edited August 16, 2020 by Peter Denis

[Dap]

5 hours ago, Lizard2010 said:

You would think that keeping Xpats in Thailand would be good

After all we put Millions into the Thai econamy

Who has been help keep the country going in the last few months  Xpats of course

A common misconception.

[joebrown]

I held a 1 year Non-O Visa for several years and then converted to a Retirement Extension of Stay. I could never, and still don't understand the need to physically depart and re-enter Thailand every 90 days. IMO all those who need to do a border run should be allowed to obtain a 'Departed' stamp and then go straight to the (re)Entry point at the border checkpoint. An appropriate fee of say 1,000bht could be paid into Thai coffers rather than another country's. Also this would save using extra pages in expensive passports.

Sounds simple, efficient and financially sound to me.

I know, I know we farangs think too much!

[GAZZPA]

5 hours ago, Lizard2010 said:

You would think that keeping Xpats in Thailand would be good

After all we put Millions into the Thai econamy

Who has been help keep the country going in the last few months  Xpats of course

Since when have Thai authorities shown any consideration for long term expats? on the contrary, it is much more the case that are making life increasingly difficult. Obviously long term expats are not considered a valuable part of the economy in Thailand.

[Destiny1990]

There one side trying everything they can to get travelers to come and stay while there is another side making it super complicated to stay. Good luck with that !!!

[from the home of CC]

4 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Not to be a smart a$$, but where are they expected to go? An exodus to Cambodia?   Sierra Leone? Congo?  The flights to the EU are prohibitively expensive for many of them and too many have nowhere to go home to. I have a  feeling we could see  a few thousand people in dire straits.

maybe they need a 'class action go fund me' lol. Seriously, you're not suggesting that this is in anyway Thailand's' problem I hope?

[jimn]

4 hours ago, trucking said:

 

Similar. Got the money but its in the UK.

 

I actually want to leave !! I was supposed to be in the UK in May to sort out some financial matters.

I'd still like to leave but getting back is such a major hassle that I have stayed on.

I feel for you

Edited August 16, 2020 by jimn

[Peter Denis]

27 minutes ago, joebrown said:

I held a 1 year Non-O Visa for several years and then converted to a Retirement Extension of Stay. I could never, and still don't understand the need to physically depart and re-enter Thailand every 90 days. IMO all those who need to do a border run should be allowed to obtain a 'Departed' stamp and then go straight to the (re)Entry point at the border checkpoint. An appropriate fee of say 1,000bht could be paid into Thai coffers rather than another country's. Also this would save using extra pages in expensive passports.

Sounds simple, efficient and financially sound to me.

I know, I know we farangs think too much!

The ONLY time Thai local immigration offices can issue you a Non Imm O Visa, is when you apply from a Visa Exempt or Tourist Visa entry (and the Visa provided is immediately stamped USED as it is the permission to stay provided by that Visa that is of relevance).

Normally every Visa is issued by a Thai Embassy/Consulate abroad and these fall under the MFA (Ministry of Foreign Affairs).  Indeed, the MFA could decide to open a small office at the major Immigration Offices, so that those in need of a new Visa would not be forced to exit Thailand but could apply in country at e.g. the various divisional HQ offices of Immigration.  However, that requires some co-operation between the MFA and Immigration (which falls under the Thai Royal Police), as Immigration would after the issue of the new Visa then have to provide the Permission to Stay stamp (something which is normally done by border-immigration when entering on the issued Visa).

Doing so, would of course impact the work-load of thai Embassies/Consulates in neighboring countries (like Savannakhet, HCMC or Penang, which are now popular places for farang in need of a new Visa), and would be an opportunity to streamline the application procedure.

Yes, I am dreaming...

 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Peter Denis

[Keyser Soze666]

44 minutes ago, Percy P said:

Correct. Since the amnesty I've spent thousands of Baht in the country . Technically I've saved  on not having to depart every 90days,+visa fees but in reality I've saved nothing. I can't wait for the boarders to open . Penang here I come. 

Same here, don't really get all the 'I've saved money' brigade. I never keep count on exactly what I'm spending anyway, so how would I even know?

 

As for Penang, I weally want a trip too, but going in and out like we did before is sadly a long long way off.

[CFCjeff]

No joy with my local immigration office, o visa expired extension used, cant access funds from Thailand. 

Just bought ticket back to UK  259 pounds one way with Finn air, told wifey will hopefully see her in 6 months, luckily have a a large family and nice place to quarantine so not all bad.

 

[jimn]

2 hours ago, crazykopite said:

I have an elderly neighbour who spends between 6 and 9 months in Thailand his one year O visa expires 17 September 2020 if the border was open he could go over and get another 90 day meaning his 1 year can be 15 months . His plan is to go to the local IO a couple of days before it expires does anybody know if they would give him the additional 90 days due to the borders being closed he’s from the U.K. but his BA flight has been cancelled several times . When I did my yearly extension in June I took his passport to do his 90 day report I have done this for him on at least 4 previous occasions this time they refused telling me I needed to get him to provide a medical certificate in order that I could do it on his behalf this had never been a problem before . Any advice would be helpful so I can explain his alternatives . I know I could get a doctors medical certificate as he is on an mobile oxygen machine and medication.

Dare I suggest that he gets a refund from BA and book back to the UK with another airline like Qatar who have 2 departures per day.

[GAZZPA]

To me Thailand is just not worth the hassle, I mean why try so hard to stay there? If you are going to chose a foreign country to be your new adopted home surely you want to feel welcome and secure? Thailand make it increasingly difficult to stay, they have created their own corrupt society where people have been getting away with visas based on brown envelopes for years. Those days are coming to an end and it's getting difficult. If you cut all ties with your home country and put all your eggs in a Thai basket they it is going to be difficult, however it can be done. Just find a more welcoming country that offers security rather then playing Russian roulette in Thailand, never knowing what's coming next..

[stephen savell]

Its  a bit strange  you'd reckon the Thais would be savoring every dollar they can get right now from the westerners there. Its  like they  are  chasing their  meal tickets out of the country - then crying poor when they are  gone? Visa's !.. to hell with the visa's . Way the world is now financially, Visa's should be the last thing they are  concerned off.

There  are  times 'multiple times'' when the Thais really do shoot themselves in the foot. Forget the 20 baht bureaucracy, and just get on with living huh.

In the  last 13  years ive lived 4 years in Thailand, but i'd never  ever live there  full time forever .. to much bureaucracy and hunger for money at any cost, about them for me.

[Mike Teavee]

43 minutes ago, joebrown said:

I held a 1 year Non-O Visa for several years and then converted to a Retirement Extension of Stay. I could never, and still don't understand the need to physically depart and re-enter Thailand every 90 days. IMO all those who need to do a border run should be allowed to obtain a 'Departed' stamp and then go straight to the (re)Entry point at the border checkpoint. An appropriate fee of say 1,000bht could be paid into Thai coffers rather than another country's. Also this would save using extra pages in expensive passports.

Sounds simple, efficient and financially sound to me.

I know, I know we farangs think too much!

Here's a simple idea...

While the airports are so quiet, allow people to "Leave" Thailand as though they were leaving to go fly somewhere & then "Re-Enter" through the normal immigration channels as though they had just come back, with no requirements for Covid-19 insurance or 14 days quarantine.

 

That way you could check for overstay on the way out & formally stamp people back into the kingdom for the correct duration on the way back in.

 

Do TM6 arrival cards & charge a fee if it helps fund it, can even let them do some duty free shopping to give the shops at the airport a much needed boost.

 

 

[FarFlungFalang]

49 minutes ago, joebrown said:

I held a 1 year Non-O Visa for several years and then converted to a Retirement Extension of Stay. I could never, and still don't understand the need to physically depart and re-enter Thailand every 90 days. IMO all those who need to do a border run should be allowed to obtain a 'Departed' stamp and then go straight to the (re)Entry point at the border checkpoint. An appropriate fee of say 1,000bht could be paid into Thai coffers rather than another country's. Also this would save using extra pages in expensive passports.

Sounds simple, efficient and financially sound to me.

I know, I know we farangs think too much!

I actually did this on numerous border runs as the law only mentions one must leave Thailand and nothing about having to enter another country,although it didn't work all the time,and as you say it would be a simple way to allow safe border runs during the pandemic.  

[ThailandRyan]

1 hour ago, tallfelllow said:

I am hearing that they are working with Malaysia to designate Penang as a Covid Free Zone the same as they want to do with Koh Samui and Phuket .If they can reach an agreement it will mean that people from Thailand will be able to fly to Penang go to the Embassy and as long as they stay on Penang they will be able to fly back to Thailand. 

They are hoping to have something in place by October. 

If what you say is truly happening behind the scenes, and not fake news, then in essence if you had a soon to be expiring O-A ME visa you could fly out and then fly back in to extend the O-A visa for another year. If it could be done that would be good, but then that is just too good to be true.

[Pattaya46]

1 hour ago, GAZZPA said:

Since when have Thai authorities shown any consideration for long term expats? on the contrary, it is much more the case that are making life increasingly difficult. //

Uh? It may be a bit difficult for those on Mariage extension (lot of documents!), but for those on Retirement it would be difficult to make it easier! One visit a year with 4-5 page of paper is not what I call hassle. (and again, problems coming from USA or UK embassies are something else)

[Deerculler]

What happens if no one can find a flight out of Thailand?

[GAZZPA]

24 minutes ago, stephen savell said:

Its  a bit strange  you'd reckon the Thais would be savoring every dollar they can get right now from the westerners there. Its  like they  are  chasing their  meal tickets out of the country - then crying poor when they are  gone? Visa's !.. to hell with the visa's . Way the world is now financially, Visa's should be the last thing they are  concerned off.

There  are  times 'multiple times'' when the Thais really do shoot themselves in the foot. Forget the 20 baht bureaucracy, and just get on with living huh.

In the  last 13  years ive lived 4 years in Thailand, but i'd never  ever live there  full time forever .. to much bureaucracy and hunger for money at any cost, about them for me.

Quite right, knowing what you know it just absolutely wouldn't be a country to plant your flag anymore.. Far too much insecurity, you cannot live your life like that. I have a few friends in Thailand who have set up trading companies that do nothing, they did it just to buy a house. I could never bet my own home knowing I owned it only by abusing the system, The law is foreigners cannot own land, full stop, so the Thais could pull the plug on that any day they want to, or extracted money from you to turn a blind eye. So many people are living there with dodgy extended tourist, retirement, student visas bought with a brown envelope. I just could not live like that not knowing year to year if I was going to be ok,,, <deleted> that..

[GAZZPA]

10 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Uh? It may be a bit difficult for those on Mariage extension (lot of documents!), but for those on Retirement it would be difficult to make it easier! One visit a year with 4-5 page of paper is not what I call hassle. (and again, problems coming from USA or UK embassies are something else)

Sounds like you are getting a retirement visa legitimately, so all good, however many are not. Also I would never trust Thailand anyway, they could change the rules anytime they want and they do. You could suddenly be saying "I have been getting a retirement visa for years, but now I don't qualify for whatever reason", it happens. I could not live under that cloud ever.. I had a legitimate work permit, all was good for 6 years until they transition to digital data storage (Thailand were finally entering the modern age) then it was a nightmare to get it done, many delays and hints of "just give me an envelope and it will go through nicely",,, well they can stick it. The country is not what it was and It's crazy people endure it, especially the ones who have been paying for dodgy visas for so long. Time to man the lifeboats.. many sunny shores to chose from.

 

[ifmu]

6 hours ago, Lizard2010 said:

That is if they can find a flight and country to go too

that is my problem .. bought ticket for july 28  got canceled and still watiting for a re book from them .. crappy airlines .. their excuse is not enough workers .. damn hire some more people  .. that is how a biz works .. unmerous emails to them still no reply .. getting ready to call usa and wait on hold and wait and wait  .. this is gotogate  .. and i did not pay for refund .. next time yes

[Pattaya Spotter]

4 hours ago, CrunchWrapSupreme said:

There sure are a lot of homes, motorbikes, pickup trucks, and home appliances all across Issan, for which the families who possess them did not have the money to purchase. Nor did they magically appear. I also know of many young Thai people who were able to attend university through such "magic", without money of their own. Hmm.

You do know that the level of household debt in Thailand is at record highs, right? I think you over estimate the economic contribution of farang in Thailand...important to some people/families yes, but deminimus to the overall economy. 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Pattaya Spotter

[Dumbastheycome]

5 hours ago, OJAS said:

There is a further group which consists of retirees who originally entered Thailand with a non-OA visa and had been planning to exit Thailand in order to obtain a single-entry non-O visa so as to avoid the mandatory TGIA-approved health insurance requirement before the borders to adjacent ASEAN countries were closed. Presumably retirees who fall into this category may also have no choice other than to up sticks and exit Thailand by 26 September unless they are able to comply with this particular requirement (which, by reason of age and/or existing health conditions, may not, of course, necessarily be possible)?

 

Just  prior to borders  closing I nullified my Non O A extension of stay based on retirement by  going to Savannakhet  seeking a single entry Non O . I was  given a Non O 12 month multi instead but  paid for.

Intended to use the multi entry status but of course now  redundant due to  border closures.

Just prior to the end of the initial 90 days late July I went  to Immigration to seek a 60 day extension.

They  kindly skipped that and re-instated my annual extension of stay  based on  Non O  retirement.

 

 

Edited August 16, 2020 by Dumbastheycome
Correction of date

[Pattaya Spotter]

1 hour ago, GAZZPA said:

To me Thailand is just not worth the hassle, I mean why try so hard to stay there? If you are going to chose a foreign country to be your new adopted home surely you want to feel welcome and secure? Thailand make it increasingly difficult to stay, they have created their own corrupt society where people have been getting away with visas based on brown envelopes for years. Those days are coming to an end and it's getting difficult. If you cut all ties with your home country and put all your eggs in a Thai basket they it is going to be difficult, however it can be done. Just find a more welcoming country that offers security rather then playing Russian roulette in Thailand, never knowing what's coming next..

So because people can't corruptly obtain their permission to stay any more, the county is no longer a good retirement destination?  (Btw...Thailand must be a pretty good place to retire if some people are willing to pay over the top to stay in the first place.)

[Pattaya Spotter]

2 hours ago, GAZZPA said:

Since when have Thai authorities shown any consideration for long term expats? on the contrary, it is much more the case that are making life increasingly difficult. Obviously long term expats are not considered a valuable part of the economy in Thailand.

Because they aren't; and what has changed vis-a-vis long term expats staying in Thailand. Nothing has changed for me in over a decade...oh yeah, they did drop the medical cert. in retirement extensions, which made the process easier.