End of visa amnesty may spell uncertainty for some expats in Thailand

[iamariva1957]

Perhaps I am bring blind or just stupid. A Non O multi entry issued at an outside Thail consulate or embassy is also known as an A0 visa... right? 

 

I have a Non O based on retirment (extension of stay also known as) issued in country at my local IM office. Do my 90 day online (or in person) and have done so for a while without ever anyone telling me I had to leave. So exactly what Visa is the article referring; Non O multi entry is slightly ambiguous to my ears. Or again am I wrong.

Edited August 16, 2020 by iamariva1957

[ubonjoe]

26 minutes ago, iamariva1957 said:

Perhaps I am bring blind or just stupid. A Non O multi entry issued at an outside Thail consulate or embassy is also known as an A0 visa... right? 

A multiple entry non-o visa allows unlimited 90 day entries for one hear from the date of issue. It can be issued for those married to or the parent of a Thai, retirement, volunteer work and etc.

A Non-OA visa is only issued to those 50 years old or over is a multiple entry visa that allows unlimited one year entries for a year from the date of issue. It can only be issued in a person's home country or country of legal residence.

[Peter Denis]

21 minutes ago, iamariva1957 said:

Perhaps I am bring blind or just stupid. A Non O multi entry issued at an outside Thail consulate or embassy is also known as an A0 visa... right? 

 

I have a Non O based on retirment (extension of stay also known as) issued in country at my local IM office. Do my 90 day online (or in person) and have done so for a while without ever anyone telling me I had to leave. So exactly what Visa is the article referring; Non O multi entry is slightly ambiguous to my ears. Or again am I wrong.

A 1-year Non Imm O-A (long-stay) Visa can ONLY be applied for at a thai Embassy/Consulate in your home-country.

You can apply for a 90-day Non Imm O Visa in-country at your local IO (when having entered Visa Exempt or on a Tourist Visa).  You can also apply for such 90-day Non Imm O Visa at a thai Embassy/Consulate in your home-country or neighboring country.

The 'standard' Non Imm O Visa is 90-days Single Entry, but some thai Consulates also issue the 1-year MultipleEntry Non Imm O Visa (e.g. Savannakhet, HoChiMin City or Penang).

 

The Non Imm O-A Visa will only be issued for reason of retirement.  But when applying for a 1-year extension once in Thailand you can apply for different reasons (e.g. marriage or thai dependant child, or other).

The Non Imm O Visa can be issued for different reasons (retirement, marriage, thai dependant child, other) and when applying for a 1-year extension of stay of such Non Imm O Visa you can switch type (different reason for application, with different requirements).

 

>> You need to check the permission to stay date

- stamped into your passport when last entering Thailand OR

- when having applied for an extension of stay of that Non Imm O Visa

It is that permission to stay which determines the period you are allowed to stay in Thailand.

If that permission to stay has expired you are presently on the Amnesty.

[Cake Monster]

8 hours ago, Lizard2010 said:

After re reading it is seems to be about the 'Non-O'

That was EG approved from Vietnam  with the 90 day leave the country

Maybe they are clamping down on these Visa

Maybe some else could clarify

On a recent visit to the local  Immigration Office, I was informed by some guy working for a Visa Company that is next door who gave the following info.

His exact words to me were " they are ignoring the Multi Entry Visa, and you are on Amnesty as of June. ( Visa issue at Savvanaket 18 March 20 )  You will be required to leave the Country by 26 September,  or obtain a Retirement Visa. However - your retirement Visa only runs from June ( because you have already had 90  days )????? ( not on a new Visa i have not ) to the expiry date of the Multi entry " ( meaning that you have to pay full money, but for a reduced length of time ) which in my case is around 9 Months,

The girl in Immigration ( although she did not say ) intimated that it would be impossible to get a Visa from Savvanaket in future ( it was the knowing smile and small laugh that gave the game away ).

When I applied for the Visa in Savvanaket, back in March, I was a tad alarmed at the amount of questions that were leveled at me Eg Where your Wife ? Why she not with you ? You have children this lady ? How old are Kids? She sick-why she sick Etc Etc Etc, and I came away with a Visa, but thinking " what was that all about ".

This has been on the cards way before Covid or any other reason for a lockdown

If the Authorities are indeed clamping down on Multi Entry Visa based on Marriage - Why ???

So many people are married to, and support Thai Families, and have been well before the Junta took power.

Xenophobic Paranoia at the pinnacle.

 

[Peter Denis]

42 minutes ago, Cake Monster said:

On a recent visit to the local  Immigration Office, I was informed by some guy working for a Visa Company that is next door who gave the following info.

His exact words to me were " they are ignoring the Multi Entry Visa, and you are on Amnesty as of June. ( Visa issue at Savvanaket 18 March 20 )  You will be required to leave the Country by 26 September,  or obtain a Retirement Visa. However - your retirement Visa only runs from June ( because you have already had 90  days )????? ( not on a new Visa i have not ) to the expiry date of the Multi entry " ( meaning that you have to pay full money, but for a reduced length of time ) which in my case is around 9 Months,

...

I presume from your report that you entered Thailand on a 1-year ME Non Imm O marriage Visa and got a 90-day permission to stay till mid June.  Since that date you are on the Amnesty unless you applied for intermediate extensions of stay.

If you did not yet use your 60-day extension of stay for reason of visiting your thai wife (I presume that you are married to a thai national), you can still apply for that 60-day extension of stay.  As such 60-day extension is normally provided from date of issue it would be recommended to only apply for it in the final days of the Amnesty, doing so you would get a 'valid' permission to stay till approx 23 November.  It will also provide you the 2 months time to season the funds required to apply for the 1-year extension of stay based on your original Non Imm O Visa.

[Wongkitlo]

6 hours ago, time2093 said:

For those that are on Non O visas and think immigration will give you some kind of compassion are up for a reality check. I'm on a Non O visa based on marriage and my local immigration told me my choices are to extend my permission of stay or I have to leave Thailand.

 

I understand many dont have the financial requirements and are stuck in this predicament but that's the reality of the situation.

I can see an increase of guys using visa agents for help or guys trying to do whatever they can to come up with the 400k or the 40k abroad transfer requirement to stay here.

Yes but on 10th July Thai immigration said "there will most likely not be an extension". If a top  official said that and it was wrong do you feel confident quoting the guy at the local office. 

[OJAS]

7 hours ago, Wongkitlo said:

Like anything in Thailand I think there are solutions to this. I think one  of the regular posters will help you with this.

While a few of the regular posters to whom you refer have certainly contributed to the 4 intervening pages of this thread, none of them have addressed the specific issue I was raising. Make of that what you will!

[Wongkitlo]

6 minutes ago, OJAS said:

While a few of the regular posters to whom you refer have certainly contributed to the 4 intervening pages of this thread, none of them have addressed the specific issue I was raising. Make of that what you will!

If you message me am happy to tell you. 

[Ubonquest]

9 hours ago, FarFlungFalang said:

I've been told to wait and see what happens by my local office which seems to hint at some leniency.

I was told almost the same thing. The IO said not to rush into doing the 60 day extension until the last two days before Sept. 26, but to start depositing the 400K into the bank account if I intend to get the marriage extension.

[Peter Denis]

8 hours ago, OJAS said:

There is a further group which consists of retirees who originally entered Thailand with a non-OA visa and had been planning to exit Thailand in order to obtain a single-entry non-O visa so as to avoid the mandatory TGIA-approved health insurance requirement before the borders to adjacent ASEAN countries were closed. Presumably retirees who fall into this category may also have no choice other than to up sticks and exit Thailand by 26 September unless they are able to comply with this particular requirement (which, by reason of age and/or existing health conditions, may not, of course, necessarily be possible)?

I presume that most of those in that group have in mean-time 'bitten the insurance-bullet' and subscribed to that #$%^& Non Imm O-A compliant retirement extension health-insurance policy.  Luckily there is an affordable thai IO-approved health-insurance policy available that meets the IO-requirements > i.e. the LMG Insurance Plan 1 (with 200K deductible) policy with an annual premium of 6.000 to 11.400 THB in the age-categories of 51 to 75 years of age (with the additional advantage that subscribing to that policy does not require any medical exam).

Note: I compiled a document outlining how to apply for that LMG insurance policy, with tips & caveats and PM-ed it already many times to those requesting it.

Edited August 16, 2020 by Peter Denis

[Peter Denis]

1 minute ago, Ubonquest said:

I was told almost the same thing. The IO said not to rush into doing the 60 day extension until the last two days before Sept. 26, but to start depositing the 400K into the bank account if I intend to get the marriage extension.

Sound advice by the IO.

[CFCjeff]

1 hour ago, Peter Denis said:

A 1-year Non Imm O-A (long-stay) Visa can ONLY be applied for at a thai Embassy/Consulate in your home-country.

You can apply for a 90-day Non Imm O Visa in-country at your local IO (when having entered Visa Exempt or on a Tourist Visa).  You can also apply for such 90-day Non Imm O Visa at a thai Embassy/Consulate in your home-country or neighboring country.

The 'standard' Non Imm O Visa is 90-days Single Entry, but some thai Consulates also issue the 1-year MultipleEntry Non Imm O Visa (e.g. Savannakhet, HoChiMin City or Penang).

 

The Non Imm O-A Visa will only be issued for reason of retirement.  But when applying for a 1-year extension once in Thailand you can apply for different reasons (e.g. marriage or thai dependant child, or other).

The Non Imm O Visa can be issued for different reasons (retirement, marriage, thai dependant child, other) and when applying for a 1-year extension of stay of such Non Imm O Visa you can switch type (different reason for application, with different requirements).

 

>> You need to check the permission to stay date

- stamped into your passport when last entering Thailand OR

- when having applied for an extension of stay of that Non Imm O Visa

It is that permission to stay which determines the period you are allowed to stay in Thailand.

If that permission to stay has expired you are presently on the Amnesty.

Hi Peter, so if i come back on a 30 day visa exempt to Thailand, i can get a 90 day non o visa from my local IO instead of the hassle of applying at the thai embassy in London. I only ask as ive never heard of this before. In this case i realise i wont be able to have a one way ticket.

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, CFCjeff said:

Hi Peter, so if i come back on a 30 day visa exempt to Thailand, i can get a 90 day non o visa from my local IO instead of the hassle of applying at the thai embassy in London. I only ask as ive never heard of this before. In this case i realise i wont be able to have a one way ticket.

When do you expect to do that. At this time is not possible to enter the country without a certificate of entry on a repatriation flight.

No sure it is any easier to enter visa exempt and apply for a visa at immigration than at the embassy in London. 

[Peter Denis]

16 minutes ago, CFCjeff said:

Hi Peter, so if i come back on a 30 day visa exempt to Thailand, i can get a 90 day non o visa from my local IO instead of the hassle of applying at the thai embassy in London. I only ask as ive never heard of this before. In this case i realise i wont be able to have a one way ticket.

In the present circumstances it is very difficult to re-enter Thailand.  But in case you are able to do so, it would probably be easier to apply for the 90-day Non Imm O Visa in UK than arriving Visa Exempt and applying for it at your local IO.

Note: You don't need to buy a return-ticket if a one way ticket is much cheaper.  And when buying a one way ticket London - Bangkok, you only need to buy a cheap throw-away ticket Bangkok to a neighboring country to meet the 'outbound' condition (before covid there were already such tickets available for less than 1.000 THB from Don Muang to Saigon).

[Pattaya Spotter]

1 hour ago, KhaoYai said:

The 12 month Multi Entry Non O based on marriage/family was I believe, put in place to facilitate entry for those who don't live in Thailand full time but wish to visit their wives and/or family on a regular basis. Those who live in Thailand should really be on an extension.  I don't think it was put in place to allow people to live in Thailand and circumvent the requirements of an extension.  People who have been living there and doing border bounces have now been caught out and cannot really complain per se - they did not really have the correct visa - bad luck.

 

The real 'wrong' is caused to those of us who use the Multi Non O correctly and cannot return to visit our loved ones due to the cost and uncertainty of the current entry requirements. Perhaps when they closed the borders, the Thai authorities were not expecting the situation to be long term but its turning out to be. There were rumours about 'July' then 'August' - September seems to be out of the question now. In reality, I can't see the borders opening up until a proven vaccine is available and everybody in Thailand has been vaccinated.

 

People who got 'stuck' outside Thailand when the borders closed may feel the cost of returning to be worth it but for those of us who visit regularly, the situation is impossible. I for one could neither afford the time spent in quarantine or the financial cost to visit as I did previously - in my case, work 8 weeks, 2 weeks at 'home' in Thailand.  Consequently it has now been over 5 months since I last saw my wife.

 

Even if we could afford the time and expense - the uncertainty of a date to visit makes it impossible for a great many.  Offshore workers are perhaps the hardest hit as they have to meet strict rotation dates and also have difficulties over where to apply for a Certificate of Entry.

 

Given that the situation is now semi-permanent, it would be helpful if the Thai authorities recognised that there are a significant number of people with wives and/or families in Thailand that have been unable to visit them for a very long time and this needs to be addressed. You cannot choose the date to travel - the embassy where you apply to stipulates it according to the availability of repat flights.

 

There are 2 main problems - cost and time.  The cost is unnecessary - firstly, there are commercial flights arriving empty at Suvarnabhumi every day - I'm sure the airlines would love to have paying passengers aboard. That would also allow return tickets to be bought instead of the current (potentially corrupt) situation where repat flights are one way at an extortionate figure and then you need to buy a ticket back.

 

Then here is the cost of quarantine hotels and the extra time needed to enable a visit because of quarantine - totally unnecesarry. Why not allow home quarantine with an electronic ankle tag to make sure you stay home?  Thailand has a right to protect its borders but as this situation is becoming long term, the authorities need come up with a way to allow affected groups to visit safely.

 

Perhaps firstly, they need to recognise that we exist - all the current groups allowed to enter are refered to as 'wishing to return to Thailand', we don't want to return, we want to visit.

 

So, I have little sympathy with those who have been 'living' in Thailand on a Multi who will now have to leave - they took their chances. Maybe the current situation could never have been envisaged but its here. If you're one of them, think yourself lucky - you've been there for the last 5 months and you've had the opportunity to 'legalise' yourself. If you can't do that, then maybe you shouldn't really have been in Thailand in the first place.

An interesting perspective and I agree with your sentiments; however a couple points I'm unsure about. 1. Where do you get the information that commercial flights are arriving daily in Bangkok? My understanding is that the only passenger flights arriving are the government organized repatriation flights. Supposedly some airlines are selling tickets on flights to Bangkok but these inevitably get cancelled. As to quarantining at home...why, so returnees can spread the virus to those in their family circle...and they, who are not quarantined, can go on to spread it at school, at work, and the public at large? All of the domestic cases for months now have been in quarantined returnees. The only way this could work is if the family unit joined in the quarantine. 

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, OJAS said:

While a few of the regular posters to whom you refer have certainly contributed to the 4 intervening pages of this thread, none of them have addressed the specific issue I was raising. Make of that what you will!

As I posted, an extra 2,500 THB on top of the normal 15,000 for an agent to help with your extension will make the Non-OA insurance requirements go away... 

[NanLaew]

11 hours ago, trucking said:

11 hours ago, NanLaew said:

I am currently under a visa-exempt amnesty having failed to secure a Non-O multi in Savanakhet just before the borders closed last March.

 

How could you fail ? No financials needed and with Thai wife  ?

On Thursday 19 March, as part of all visa applications, the Thai Consulate in Savanakhet commenced asking for a medical certificate stating that the visa applicant was free of Covid-19. They also said they would not accept a certificate issued by any doctor in Savanakhet. The borders commenced closing on Sunday 22 March.

Edited August 16, 2020 by NanLaew

[NanLaew]

5 hours ago, Deerculler said:

What happens if no one can find a flight out of Thailand?

They will be told they must try harder. There's sometimes as much as 30 flights leaving BKK each day alone.

[sundaram444]

9 hours ago, BritTim said:

Reading your post carefully, I think your current permission to stay is based on a one-year extension from an immigration office in Thailand, not a 90-day entry from a Non O visa. If this is wrong, please post a clarification.

 

Assuming I am correct, you just extend your permission to stay normally as in previous years.

Thank you for the reply. I will go to the Immigration office , next week. I will get an extension for one more year just before the due date.  

[vermin on arrival]

20 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

On Thursday 19 March, as part of all visa applications, the Thai Consulate in Savanakhet commenced asking for a medical certificate stating that the visa applicant was free of Covid-19. They also said they would not accept a certificate issued by any doctor in Savanakhet. The borders commenced closing on Sunday 22 March.

Ouch

[Wongkitlo]

2 hours ago, OJAS said:

While a few of the regular posters to whom you refer have certainly contributed to the 4 intervening pages of this thread, none of them have addressed the specific issue I was raising. Make of that what you will!

You were just a little early. Peter Denis is a very helpful gentlemen 

[FlyingThai]

11 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Not to be a smart a$$, but where are they expected to go? An exodus to Cambodia?   Sierra Leone? Congo?  The flights to the EU are prohibitively expensive for many of them and too many have nowhere to go home to. I have a  feeling we could see  a few thousand people in dire straits.

And living in Thailand for several months on end is cheaper than paying for a ticket back "home"?

 

But lets say it as it is, most (95%) of the people still hanging around Thailand on Amnesty don't really have anything in terms of living situation back in their country of citizenship.

[ThailandRyan]

12 minutes ago, FlyingThai said:

And living in Thailand for several months on end is cheaper than paying for a ticket back "home"?

 

But lets say it as it is, most (95%) of the people still hanging around Thailand on Amnesty don't really have anything in terms of living situation back in their country of citizenship.

Are you saying that those who are still here, other than those of us that live here, are true full time international travelers? That's a new one for me. So then if thats true why not buy that Elite Visa.

[Happyman567]

19 hours ago, FarFlungFalang said:

I've been told to wait and see what happens by my local office which seems to hint at some leniency.

I agree My Non O does not run out till March next year I am still confident they will show leniency.

[trucking]

On 8/16/2020 at 7:47 AM, NanLaew said:

On Thursday 19 March, as part of all visa applications, the Thai Consulate in Savanakhet commenced asking for a medical certificate stating that the visa applicant was free of Covid-19. They also said they would not accept a certificate issued by any doctor in Savanakhet. The borders commenced closing on Sunday 22 March.

 

What a bummer. All that way for nothing.

[HampiK]

11 hours ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

I have seen these posts but I don't understand them. For Non-Imm O's and extensions for retirement, for which I am most familiar, the last major change was raising the bank deposit from 400k to 800k (and the monthly deposit amount by the same) and this was probably 15 years ago. The kurfuffle about the monthly income verifications was caused by some embassy's no longer issuing them...it was nothing to do with Thai Immigration. What other significant changes have there been that I've missed?

I think for retired people the biggest change was, that you have to put the money longer and can access only 400K. Meaning 400K have to stay the whole year while the other 400K have to stay 5 months.

[trucking]

On 8/16/2020 at 5:02 AM, Peter Denis said:

It will also provide you the 2 months time to season the funds required to apply for the 1-year extension of stay based on your original Non Imm O Visa.

 

Yes....I was going to use the 40,000 baht a month transfer method but this now seems a bit uncertain given that some immigration offices question whether the transfer is from pension or savings.

 

Therefore I am now leaning towards having the full 400,000 baht in the bank with 2 month seasoning before applying for 1 year extension.  However , I have heard that some offices require three months seasoning which again causes some uncertainty. If that were true I would have to hope the initial 60 day extension started on September 27th to allow for an extra month of seasoning of the 400,000.

 

Amazing Thailand

[jacko45k]

16 hours ago, stephen savell said:

Its  a bit strange  you'd reckon the Thais would be savoring every dollar they can get right now from the westerners there. Its  like they  are  chasing their  meal tickets out of the country - then crying poor when they are  gone? Visa's !.. to hell with the visa's . Way the world is now financially, Visa's should be the last thing they are  concerned off.

There  are  times 'multiple times'' when the Thais really do shoot themselves in the foot. Forget the 20 baht bureaucracy, and just get on with living huh.

In the  last 13  years ive lived 4 years in Thailand, but i'd never  ever live there  full time forever .. to much bureaucracy and hunger for money at any cost, about them for me.

A seemingly polarized perspective....

I know a few Thais, they get on with their lives, go to work, a related couple, he at an electrical manufacturing plant, his wife at a hospital, neither of them have reason to worry about foreigners who overvalue their worth and have clung on in Thailand.

The Thais, themseves have done a very good job of protectig their people from Covid... having the courage to do what it takes. Foreigners brought it in, they got rid of it and now keep it out.

But it appears you have a negative view of them.

Edited August 17, 2020 by jacko45k

[Peter Denis]

24 minutes ago, trucking said:

Yes....I was going to use the 40,000 baht a month transfer method but this now seems a bit uncertain given that some immigration offices question whether the transfer is from pension or savings.

 

Therefore I am now leaning towards having the full 400,000 baht in the bank with 2 month seasoning before applying for 1 year extension.  However , I have heard that some offices require three months seasoning which again causes some uncertainty. If that were true I would have to hope the initial 60 day extension started on September 27th to allow for an extra month of seasoning of the 400,000.

...

Hi Trucking,

Yes, it's correct that when using the 40K monthly income transfer method, you will need to provide evidence of the foreign origins of the funds transferred (that in itself is no problem, as you bank will be able to provide you with that evidence).  But the IO handling your application can also request you to provide evidence of the SOURCE of that foreign income.  If you can show evidence of a large savings-account abroad that might be accepted, but indeed some IOs are picky and some rogue ones only accept a pension statement (issued by your pension provider) as source of the foreign income.

You do not face such difficulties when using the 400K funds-in-bank method, but when using that method the funds should be TWO months on your personal thai bank-account the moment you apply for the 1-year extension of stay.

The Police Order (see attached) is crystal clear that it needs only to be TWO months, so an officer incorrectly referring to 3 months can be easily 'overruled' by showing that PoliceOrder.

And when adamant it's just a matter of politely asking to speak to the officer in charge (who will be on the know in these matters) or calling the 1178 IO Helpline while at the officers desk.

Note > When using the 40K monthly income transfer method, there are indeed some offices that - incorrectly - require 3 of such transfer instead of 2, but also these can be challenged although the PoliceOrder on that issue is rather cryptic (resulting in a situation that some officers even insist on 12 months of transfers instead of 2 when applying for your FIRST 1-year extension of stay) 

70389546_548-2562.changed327-2557(2019)Eng [english text only] [searchable].pdf

Edited August 17, 2020 by Peter Denis

[TechnikaIII]

23 hours ago, Lizard2010 said:

You would think that keeping Xpats in Thailand would be good

After all we put Millions into the Thai econamy

Who has been help keep the country going in the last few months  Xpats of course

"Millions into the Thai economy" .. yes but not into the pockets of all the lawyers and visa agents and Immigration Police accounts, none of whom benefit directly from general revenue.