UK minister surprised by Scottish independence referendum move

[sandyf]

On 9/19/2020 at 8:48 PM, kingdong said:

you having a laugh?do you honestly think barnier will do your little country any favours you,ll be dancing to the tune they whistle,and good luck with all the economic migrants you,re going to recieve,after all all members must shoulder the burden,well good luck and wackie dai boyo.

Isn't that up to the people of Scotland, aren't they entitled to get what they vote for, after all, England did.

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, sandyf said:

I voted in person.

The EU referendum bill made the outcome a unilateral decision by England and now the perpetrators cannot face the fallout.

Them awfy English again, what horrible neighbours you have.

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Only by Boris winning the 2019 election by an astounding majority was the referendum not ignored, the people spoke and all thoughts of revoking or having another go at voting to overturn the democratic decision of the UK was thrown back into history, but I'm sure the remainers will be remembered as the people who tried to overturn democracy. 

You own where we are today, make the most of it and enjoy the ride.

How do I own the shambles that is Brexit?

You voted for Brexit. I didnt. You voted for Johnson. I didnt.

Which version of Brexit did you vote for?

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

Isn't that up to the people of Scotland, aren't they entitled to get what they vote for, after all, England did.

Democracy is a weird thing for Brexiteers.

Its only democratic if its what they personally want.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

I didn't agree with the independence proposal of 2014.

Despite what some would prefer to believe, circumstances and people do change.

Isn't marriage supposed to be a once in a lifetime event, or are you in favour of dispensing with the divorce courts as well.

I don't think that most folk change that much in 6 years. This union cannot be compared with a modern day marriage of two people. 

[vogie]

7 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

How do I own the shambles that is Brexit?

You voted for Brexit. I didnt. You voted for Johnson. I didnt.

Which version of Brexit did you vote for?

I have explained to you on numerous occassions why you own where we are today on Brexit, for whatever your reason you chose to ignore facts, it appears you cannot accept the truth.

 

Do you accept that if the UK votes in the majority to leave the EU that we should leave, or are you one of those that think the losers should be the ones dictating the outcome of the referendum, if that is the case many would say, that is a very arrogant and selfish way to run referendums.

 

The remainer parliament had a chance to change the course of the outcome of Brexit, they chose not to exercise that course of action, so if you want to bury your head in the sand and put your fingers in your ears that is your decision and nobody elses, so I repeat you are very much responsible of where we are today. But thanks anyway.????

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

I have explained to you on numerous occassions why you own where we are today on Brexit, for whatever your reason you chose to ignore facts, it appears you cannot accept the truth.

 

Do you accept that if the UK votes in the majority to leave the EU that we should leave, or are you one of those that think the losers should be the ones dictating the outcome of the referendum, if that is the case many would say, that is a very arrogant and selfish way to run referendums.

 

The remainer parliament had a chance to change the course of the outcome of Brexit, they chose not to exercise that course of action, so if you want to bury your head in the sand and put your fingers in your ears that is your decision and nobody elses, so I repeat you are very much responsible of where we are today. But thanks anyway.????

I think that the deal should be put to the people to find out if its what they want.

Brexiteers dont want the people to be asked that. And then you have the nerve to lecture about democracy?

You have not produced any facts regarding why Brexit is the fault of remainers. All you have is some twisted logic where remainers should have voted for Brexit. 

YOU own this Brexit shambles. YOU voted for it. YOU voted for Johnson.

[Neeranam]

On 9/2/2020 at 6:39 PM, snoop1130 said:

“I’m just somewhat surprised,” Work and Pensions Secretary Therese Coffey told BBC television on Wednesday.

Never heard of her. Who cares what she thinks?

[vogie]

You are just like the guy who goes down to the 'SNP Country and Unsocial Club' every Friday night and never buys a ticket for their 'meat raffle' then complains when somebody else wins it.

 

This is my last word to you on this particular subject as you have your deflective ears on, but before I go read what one of your fellow remainers has wrote on the subject, probably doesn't apply to Scots Nationalists though.

 

"The People’s Vote campaign was always a fool’s errand. The same forces that won in 2016 and gave Johnson his majority last month would have smashed Remain in any second referendum. By forcing a decision where those forces could be marshalled and deployed again, the Stop Brexit campaigners gave Britain a harsher form of Brexit than we might have had.

Some of the revokers and remainers and people’s voters will be noisily weeping tonight, lamenting what is about to be lost. Instead, they should be apologising, for this is their Brexit too."

 

https://retro-blogs.spectator.co.uk/2020/01/you-can-thank-remainers-for-the-hardness-of-this-brexit/

 

 

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

You are just like the guy who goes down to the 'SNP Country and Unsocial Club' every Friday night and never buys a ticket for their 'meat raffle' then complains when somebody else wins it.

 

This is my last word to you on this particular subject as you have your deflective ears on, but before I go read what one of your fellow remainers has wrote on the subject, probably doesn't apply to Scots Nationalists though.

 

"The People’s Vote campaign was always a fool’s errand. The same forces that won in 2016 and gave Johnson his majority last month would have smashed Remain in any second referendum. By forcing a decision where those forces could be marshalled and deployed again, the Stop Brexit campaigners gave Britain a harsher form of Brexit than we might have had.

Some of the revokers and remainers and people’s voters will be noisily weeping tonight, lamenting what is about to be lost. Instead, they should be apologising, for this is their Brexit too."

 

https://retro-blogs.spectator.co.uk/2020/01/you-can-thank-remainers-for-the-hardness-of-this-brexit/

 

 

Absolute nonsense.

The reason we are going over a cliff edge Brexit is because there was a right wing coup in the Conservative party led by the ERG and 1922 committee.

These fanaticle Brexiteer fundamentalists purged the party and then you guys voted them into power. 

So YOU voted for Brexit then YOU voted for the right wing nutjobs to enact it. 

[evadgib]

47 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Absolute nonsense.

The reason we are going over a cliff edge Brexit is because there was a right wing coup in the Conservative party led by the ERG and 1922 committee.

These fanaticle Brexiteer fundamentalists purged the party and then you guys voted them into power. 

So YOU voted for Brexit then YOU voted for the right wing nutjobs to enact it. 

Meanwhile efforts to prop up the ???????????????????????????? Vassalage Party continues...

[vogie]

55 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Absolute nonsense.

The reason we are going over a cliff edge Brexit is because there was a right wing coup in the Conservative party led by the ERG and 1922 committee.

These fanaticle Brexiteer fundamentalists purged the party and then you guys voted them into power. 

So YOU voted for Brexit then YOU voted for the right wing nutjobs to enact it. 

Rambling Rose, where you ramble no-one knows.

[evadgib]

This landed in my intray a few mins ago...

(Content not Poster please, inc the ????????????????????????????man doing the talking and the platform on which he is doing so, ???? )

[RuamRudy]

6 hours ago, Neeranam said:

Never heard of her. Who cares what she thinks?

This is her - maybe helps jog the memory. One of our lords and masters, deciding from the country next door what we can and cannot do in our own country. 

[Rookiescot]

25 minutes ago, evadgib said:

This landed in my intray a few mins ago...

(Content not Poster please, inc the ????????????????????????????man doing the talking and the platform on which he is doing so, ???? )

Gorgeous George talking his usual BS. Hes got the wrong James III. Which is typical.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_III_of_Scotland

 

Also the motion passed by the councils of Orkney and Shetland is to examine greater self determination for the islands. Not independence. So he is wrong with that too.

 

Ironically the only way for the islands to achieve independence would be for Scotland to achieve it first. Westminster is not going to allow them a referendum on their own are they?

 

And lastly even if they did become independent they would be an enclave within Scottish territorial waters. Their ownership of oil/gas and fishing would be limited to within 12 miles of their coastlines. There is no oil or gas there. Their fishermen would be excluded from Scottish waters. The ferry service to the islands which is currently subsidised by the Scottish Government would also have to be funded solely by the islands themselves. They also voted to remain in the EU. So staying with an independent Scotland in the EU would seem likely.

 

I also have to say if you find yourself agreeing with Galloway on anything you are probably on the wrong side of the argument. 

[kingdong]

9 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Gorgeous George talking his usual BS. Hes got the wrong James III. Which is typical.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_III_of_Scotland

 

Also the motion passed by the councils of Orkney and Shetland is to examine greater self determination for the islands. Not independence. So he is wrong with that too.

 

Ironically the only way for the islands to achieve independence would be for Scotland to achieve it first. Westminster is not going to allow them a referendum on their own are they?

 

And lastly even if they did become independent they would be an enclave within Scottish territorial waters. Their ownership of oil/gas and fishing would be limited to within 12 miles of their coastlines. There is no oil or gas there. Their fishermen would be excluded from Scottish waters. The ferry service to the islands which is currently subsidised by the Scottish Government would also have to be funded solely by the islands themselves. They also voted to remain in the EU. So staying with an independent Scotland in the EU would seem likely.

 

I also have to say if you find yourself agreeing with Galloway on anything you are probably on the wrong side of the argument. 

love the hat

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[kingdong]

6 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

How do I own the shambles that is Brexit?

You voted for Brexit. I didnt. You voted for Johnson. I didnt.

Which version of Brexit did you vote for?

there never was any "versions" on the referendum it was either leave or remain,how could any one percieve what the outcome would be?,this old worn out argument is getting boring now,why not devote your skills and talents into putting the great back into great Britain.

[nauseus]

20 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Gorgeous George talking his usual BS. Hes got the wrong James III. Which is typical.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_III_of_Scotland

 

Also the motion passed by the councils of Orkney and Shetland is to examine greater self determination for the islands. Not independence. So he is wrong with that too.

 

Ironically the only way for the islands to achieve independence would be for Scotland to achieve it first. Westminster is not going to allow them a referendum on their own are they?

 

And lastly even if they did become independent they would be an enclave within Scottish territorial waters. Their ownership of oil/gas and fishing would be limited to within 12 miles of their coastlines. There is no oil or gas there. Their fishermen would be excluded from Scottish waters. The ferry service to the islands which is currently subsidised by the Scottish Government would also have to be funded solely by the islands themselves. They also voted to remain in the EU. So staying with an independent Scotland in the EU would seem likely.

 

I also have to say if you find yourself agreeing with Galloway on anything you are probably on the wrong side of the argument. 

Looks like you are telling the islanders what they can and can't do already - like a Brussels spout. 

[Rookiescot]

5 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Looks like you are telling the islanders what they can and can't do already - like a Brussels spout. 

I simply stated facts. Nowhere did I say what the islanders should or should not do.

So you are wrong.

[Rookiescot]

13 minutes ago, kingdong said:

there never was any "versions" on the referendum it was either leave or remain,how could any one percieve what the outcome would be?,this old worn out argument is getting boring now,why not devote your skills and talents into putting the great back into great Britain.

Vote leave claimed we would be staying in the single market.

Farage claimed we would be just like Norway.

So if no-one could "percieve" what would happen how on earth did you know what you were voting for?

[Rookiescot]

27 minutes ago, kingdong said:

love the hat

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Very surprised you like Galloway.

Galloway was expelled from the Labour Party for bringing the party into disrepute, including having called on Arabs to fight British troops.

[kingdong]

2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Vote leave claimed we would be staying in the single market.

Farage claimed we would be just like Norway.

So if no-one could "percieve" what would happen how on earth did you know what you were voting for?

people " percieve " every day about future events,thats why the bookies are so rich.

[kingdong]

2 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Very surprised you like Galloway.

Galloway was expelled from the Labour Party for bringing the party into disrepute, including having called on Arabs to fight British troops.

thats what i liked about him,he was the perfect advert of what one would get if one voted labour.

[Rookiescot]

Just now, kingdong said:

people " percieve " every day about future events,thats why the bookies are so rich.

So you guys gambled with the countries prosperity.

Just because of the colour of a passport?

Wow.

[RuamRudy]

5 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Very surprised you like Galloway.

Galloway was expelled from the Labour Party for bringing the party into disrepute, including having called on Arabs to fight British troops.

He has a few 'controversial' opinions. But apparently he is the Yoons' great white hope... Makes you wonder just how shaky the union must be if this is what is going to save them. 

Edited September 21, 2020 by RuamRudy

[Rookiescot]

Just now, kingdong said:

thats what i liked about him,he was the perfect advert of what one would get if one voted labour.

But now of course he is a paragon of virtue because he said something you agree with?

[vogie]

7 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Vote leave claimed we would be staying in the single market.

Farage claimed we would be just like Norway.

So if no-one could "percieve" what would happen how on earth did you know what you were voting for?

More remainer lies!

 

[RayC]

5 hours ago, vogie said:

You are just like the guy who goes down to the 'SNP Country and Unsocial Club' every Friday night and never buys a ticket for their 'meat raffle' then complains when somebody else wins it.

 

This is my last word to you on this particular subject as you have your deflective ears on, but before I go read what one of your fellow remainers has wrote on the subject, probably doesn't apply to Scots Nationalists though.

 

"The People’s Vote campaign was always a fool’s errand. The same forces that won in 2016 and gave Johnson his majority last month would have smashed Remain in any second referendum. By forcing a decision where those forces could be marshalled and deployed again, the Stop Brexit campaigners gave Britain a harsher form of Brexit than we might have had.

Some of the revokers and remainers and people’s voters will be noisily weeping tonight, lamenting what is about to be lost. Instead, they should be apologising, for this is their Brexit too."

 

https://retro-blogs.spectator.co.uk/2020/01/you-can-thank-remainers-for-the-hardness-of-this-brexit/

 

 

Imo a rather disjointed and logically inconsistent piece. Where is the evidence that Johnson was predisposed to a 'Norway' style deal? Everything that he has done since he has become PM suggests the opposite. Indeed, the author neatly shows why we are where are: 

"Smart people such as my former colleague Stephen Bush don’t agree with this. They argue, very cogently, that the nature of the Conservative party after 2016 and — especially — after the 2017 general election result meant that nothing but a hard-edged Brexit would ever be possible."

 

There is nothing to support the view that Remainers are to blame for this farce. It is all of the Tory party's and Brexiters making. You caused this problem, you should be responsible and accountable for solving it.

[kingdong]

3 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

So you guys gambled with the countries prosperity.

Just because of the colour of a passport?

Wow.

more childish nonsensical deflection,is that the best you can do?

[nauseus]

5 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

I simply stated facts. Nowhere did I say what the islanders should or should not do.

So you are wrong.

The motion is to examine the possibilities of greater self determination for the islands - this could include independence. The islands might achieve independence from Scotland anyway. Westminster might allow them a referendum on their own, especially if Scotland gets one, who knows? 

 

If the Orkneys and Shetlands become independent then they would not necessarily Become enclaves within Scottish waters. In fact if they became fully independent (nations) they would not be enclaves at all! All of the best oil and fishing is west of Shetland and the new EEZs for O&S would see Scotland lose much of its maritime bonus in two great chunks overnight! The island groups could then afford direct ferry services to wherever they want to go - probably Stavanger - take care!