UK minister surprised by Scottish independence referendum move

[Rookiescot]

3 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Another severe case of burnt pot and dark kettle, Poirot?

You need to understand. The view of English nationalist Brexiteers is not important to most Scots.

Independence is not about you guys.

[vogie]

13 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

You need to understand. The view of English nationalist Brexiteers is not important to most Scots.

Independence is not about you guys.

And you need to understand that Scottish independence is not just about the SNP, to quote your Uncle Boris "the Scots voted no, and they meant it"

 

[7by7]

17 hours ago, nauseus said:

18 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Nothing in the Act or any other official document to place a time limit on when another referendum could be held.

I know. I didn't say that.

 

 

I suggested making it a condition of any independence referendum that, whatever the result, Scotland cannot have another one for a set period; twenty years, perhaps.

 

To which you responded "Well that's what everyone was told last time."

 

As you now say that you know there was nothing which set a time limit on when another independence referendum could be held; please educate me by explaining what you meant by that comment.

 

 

[7by7]

17 hours ago, nauseus said:

The example given was from a poll (or polls). That's what I was commenting on. 

 

And I commented that I believe the ballot box is the only poll with any real meaning. But maybe you think that opinion polls are more valid?

 

17 hours ago, nauseus said:

I didn't say I was afraid of the Scots having another independence referendum.

So why do you argue against it?

 

If they have another one, particularly post Brexit and whatever deal Cummings manages to cobble together, and they still vote to remain in the union, that's a win for you; isn't it?

 

I thought you Brexiteers were ultra keen on democracy!

 

17 hours ago, nauseus said:

Your persistent presumptions are as boring as ever.

 Not as boring as your resorting to petty insults every time you are confounded by logic or facts.

 

Oops; I've sunk to your level 

[7by7]

7 hours ago, evadgib said:

Not everyone understands the difference between Loyalist & Unionist.

 

@rott clearly doesn't.

 

And when it comes to Northern Ireland politics; your remark suggests that you don't, either!

 

In Northern Ireland, apart from a tiny minority of of Loyalists who adhere to the idea of Ulster nationalism, Loyalist and Unionist are effectively interchangeable.

 

The difference?

 

Unionists want to maintain the union between Northern Ireland and the UK, and are loyal to the UK Parliament and elected government.

 

Loyalists are also Unionists, but emphasis the maintenance of a Protestant heritage as a first priority.

 

So Catholics can be, and are, Unionists, but not Loyalists.

 

GTH ????

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by 7by7

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

Your eagerness to turn a blind eye to the people who are literally stealing from you is utterly bewildering. 

Drama on steroids again.

[nauseus]

36 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

 

I suggested making it a condition of any independence referendum that, whatever the result, Scotland cannot have another one for a set period; twenty years, perhaps.

 

To which you responded "Well that's what everyone was told last time."

 

As you now say that you know there was nothing which set a time limit on when another independence referendum could be held; please educate me by explaining what you meant by that comment.

 

 

See post 707

[7by7]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Looking at the SNP at the mo, I reckon your aspirations are not looking to good.

Mrs. Corvid finally walked yet....?

 No, but she was ejected from the party nearly 2 weeks ago just after her rule breaking was discovered.

 

In addition, Sturgeon has repeatedly called upon her to resign her seat; Blackford has repeatedly called upon her to resign her seat; the local SNP party in her constituency has repeatedly called upon her to resign her seat.

 

In fact, the only people who have not called upon her to resign her seat are Johnson, Cummings, nor anyone else at Number 10.

 

So what is your point?

[nauseus]

30 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

And I commented that I believe the ballot box is the only poll with any real meaning. But maybe you think that opinion polls are more valid?

 

So why do you argue against it?

 

If they have another one, particularly post Brexit and whatever deal Cummings manages to cobble together, and they still vote to remain in the union, that's a win for you; isn't it?

 

I thought you Brexiteers were ultra keen on democracy!

 

 Not as boring as your resorting to petty insults every time you are confounded by logic or facts.

 

Oops; I've sunk to your level 

I didn't start the opinion poll bit. Compose yourself and read back properly. 

[7by7]

4 minutes ago, nauseus said:

See post 707

 

4 hours ago, nauseus said:

Funny. Looks like Salmond was backtracking even before the Brexit vote:

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/alex-salmond-makes-u-turn-over-once-generation-scottish-independence-referendum-10500405.html

 

 

Salmon changed his mind; but the Act was not changed.

 

There is nothing in law to say when another independence referendum can be held.

 

Btw, Salmond changed his 'once in a lifetime' comment. A comment with no legal standing whatsoever. Johnson has gone back on an international treaty he not only signed and trumpeted as a personal triumph, but also passed into UK statute law via the European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Act 2020.

 

Haven't seen any complaints from you about that. Did I miss them?

[7by7]

11 minutes ago, nauseus said:

I didn't start the opinion poll bit. Compose yourself and read back properly. 

 I have; but maybe you should so do as you are contradicting yourself yet again!

 

I await your response in a state of complete ennui.

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

And you need to understand that Scottish independence is not just about the SNP, to quote your Uncle Boris "the Scots voted no, and they meant it"

 

And the current legal challenge as to whether the Scottish parliament even needs permission from Westminster?

There was no referendum to take us into the union.

The last union which held nations inside it against their will was the soviet union. 

How did that end?

Face it. We are leaving the United States of England.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 

 

 

Salmon changed his mind; but the Act was not changed.

 

There is nothing in law to say when another independence referendum can be held.

 

Btw, Salmond changed his 'once in a lifetime' comment. A comment with no legal standing whatsoever. Johnson has gone back on an international treaty he not only signed and trumpeted as a personal triumph, but also passed into UK statute law via the European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Act 2020.

 

Haven't seen any complaints from you about that. Did I miss them?

The discussion was about promises, not legal acts. This has nothing to do with Boris and treaties. 

 

 

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 I have; but maybe you should so do as you are contradicting yourself yet again!

 

I await your response in a state of complete ennui.

So how am I contradicting myself?

[7by7]

10 minutes ago, nauseus said:

The discussion was about promises, not legal acts. This has nothing to do with Boris and treaties. 

 

 

 

My original point was that there is absolutely no legal reason why another Scottish independence referendum could not be held tomorrow.

 

You tried to say there couldn't be one because of a 'promise' with zero legal standing by one, and only one, politician who has since changed his mind.

 

You have also used that 'promise' and change of mind many times in your arguments against another referendum.

 

Yet you seem perfectly ok with the Prime Minister reneging on, or, for the pedants, threatening to renege upon, an international agreement which he trumpeted as a personal triumph!

Edited October 13, 2020 by 7by7
typos

[7by7]

11 minutes ago, nauseus said:

So how am I contradicting myself?

 By saying one thing in some posts and the opposite in others.

 

It's a very long list, so I'll use the typical Brexiteer response and tell you to look them up for yourself!

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 By saying one thing in some posts and the opposite in others.

 

It's a very long list, so I'll use the typical Brexiteer response and tell you to look them up for yourself!

If it's such a very long list you should have no problem citing, say, three examples as comparisons? 

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 

My original point was that there is absolutely no legal reason why another Scottish independence referendum could not be held tomorrow.

 

You tried to say there couldn't be one because of a 'promise' with zero legal standing by one, and only one, politician who has since changed his mind.

 

You have also used that 'promise' and change of mind many times in your arguments against another referendum.

 

Yet you seem perfectly ok with the Prime Minister reneging on, or, for the pedants, threatening to renege upon, an international agreement which he trumpeted as a personal triumph!

No. That's what I tried to say and post these examples of many times. 

[nauseus]

4 hours ago, nauseus said:

I didn't start the opinion poll bit. Compose yourself and read back properly. 

Thanks for my 15k friends. ????

[7by7]

6 minutes ago, nauseus said:

If it's such a very long list you should have no problem citing, say, three examples as comparisons? 

Well, in the last few pages of this thread alone there's your saying that everyone was told that the last referendum was final; then denying that you said it when shown that there was no legal statement to that effect; then saying  you meant it was final because Salmond said so; etc. etc.!

 

The list is lengthy. 

[7by7]

6 minutes ago, nauseus said:

No. That's what I tried to say and post these examples of many times. 

This makes absolutely no sense as a comment on the post of mine which you quoted!

 

I repeat: 

My original point was that there is absolutely no legal reason why another Scottish independence referendum could not be held tomorrow.

 

You tried to say there couldn't be one because of a 'promise' with zero legal standing by one, and only one, politician who has since changed his mind.

 

You have also used that 'promise' and change of mind many times in your arguments against another referendum.

 

Yet you seem perfectly ok with the Prime Minister reneging on, or, for the pedants, threatening to renege upon, an international agreement which he trumpeted as a personal triumph!

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

Well, in the last few pages of this thread alone there's your saying that everyone was told that the last referendum was final; then denying that you said it when shown that there was no legal statement to that effect; then saying  you meant it was final because Salmond said so; etc. etc.!

 

The list is lengthy. 

I did not use the word final but you just did. Quote proper examples, otherwise you have no argument.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, 7by7 said:

This makes absolutely no sense as a comment on the post of mine which you quoted!

 

I repeat: 

My original point was that there is absolutely no legal reason why another Scottish independence referendum could not be held tomorrow.

 

You tried to say there couldn't be one because of a 'promise' with zero legal standing by one, and only one, politician who has since changed his mind.

 

You have also used that 'promise' and change of mind many times in your arguments against another referendum.

 

Yet you seem perfectly ok with the Prime Minister reneging on, or, for the pedants, threatening to renege upon, an international agreement which he trumpeted as a personal triumph!

You are correct. A complete mispost. I was distracted. Disregard.

 

[kingdong]

11 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 No, but she was ejected from the party nearly 2 weeks ago just after her rule breaking was discovered.

 

In addition, Sturgeon has repeatedly called upon her to resign her seat; Blackford has repeatedly called upon her to resign her seat; the local SNP party in her constituency has repeatedly called upon her to resign her seat.

 

In fact, the only people who have not called upon her to resign her seat are Johnson, Cummings, nor anyone else at Number 10.

 

So what is your point?

She,s a wrong 'un?

[kingdong]

13 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

You need to understand. The view of English nationalist Brexiteers is not important to most Scots.

Independence is not about you guys.

Yes its not about "you guys" but it could very well be if your mob want to rejoin the European union if in the unlikely event you gain independence, still sure the pucker factor will kick in like it did last time should an election occur

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by kingdong

[Rookiescot]

18 minutes ago, kingdong said:

Yes its not about "you guys" but it could very well be if your mob want to rejoin the European union if in the unlikely event you gain independence, still sure the pucker factor will kick in like it did last time should an election occur

 

Why would an independent Scotland joining the EU be any business of England?

[kingdong]

15 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Why would an independent Scotland joining the EU be any business of England?

If you want to rejoin the European union it will be conditional on you accepting freedom of movement and "sharing the Euston burden of economic migration"England's having enough problems with economic migration without Scotland adding to it.that's why we voted to leave.

Edited October 14, 2020 by kingdong

[Rookiescot]

Just now, kingdong said:

If you want to rejoin the European it will be conditional on you accepting freedom of movement and "sharing the Euston burden of economic migration"England's having enough problems with economic migration without Scotland adding to it.that's why we voted to leave.

And?

You Brexiteer unionists have claimed many times there will be a border upon independence.

In the same way there is going to be a border between Northern Ireland and the Republic.

[kingdong]

11 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

And?

You Brexiteer unionists have claimed many times there will be a border upon independence.

In the same way there is going to be a border between Northern Ireland and the Republic.

Let's hope so,still it should be a matter for those actually resident in the UK to decide which choices they wish to adopt,

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, kingdong said:

Let's hope so,still it should be a matter for those actually resident in the UK to decide which choices they wish to adopt,

Independence is a matter for those resident in Scotland and only they should be voting on it.