Many farang must leave their families, friends and Thailand

[Yellowtail]

1 minute ago, JackThompson said:

Why "making up"?   Making up what?  Those are the rules at the Thai-consulate in Penang and, yes, Immigration following the same rules would solve the issue for many. 

 

Just following their own existing-rules, rather than constantly changing them to block legit-applications, would be a huge step-up.

 

Then you missed the MANY "landlord docs" denial-reports.  But the income-method is law, so why should it be a problem?  They are only "cracking down" to squeeze corruption-money from more "good guys" who don't (or did not previously) use agents.

 

If you used the BOI system, you know they provide BOTH the work-permit AND the permitted-stay as a package.  Unlike the regular labor-dept, who provide ONLY the work-permit, Immigration is involved in the BOI process, so have (predictably) corrupted it. 

 

I had no problem getting a work permit from the Labor Dept, but was later blocked from a permitted-stay at immigration due to "new-rules", combined with covid making meeting those "new rules" impossible. 

 

Total loss of it, in case of a financial or political "event" in Thailand.

 

You seemed to say that the the allowing people to use a statement from an overseas account would solve the problem, and then in a later post indicated that the financials weren't really an issue for most people. I'm just trying to follow along.

 

Again, in 18 years I had no issues with my work permit or visa, and I worked for a BOI registered company the whole time. And again, since I retired I have been on the marriage visa I have had no issues. 

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, Yellowtail said:

You seemed to say that the the allowing people to use a statement from an overseas account would solve the problem, and then in a later post indicated that the financials weren't really an issue for most people. I'm just trying to follow along.

An overseas-statement would solve the problem for many.

Financials - or, rather, they way they qualify them - is just ONE way Immigration blocks legit applications.

 

Quote

Again, in 18 years I had no issues with my work permit or visa, and I worked for a BOI registered company the whole time. And again, since I retired I have been on the marriage visa I have had no issues. 

As I said before, most who drive-drunk make it home safely - but that doesn't make it right.  I am one of the many who have reported (on this forum) being "run over" multiple-times by Immigration's Corruption.  Most of the victims never post here.  It is widespread.

Edited September 5, 2020 by JackThompson

[Yellowtail]

7 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

An overseas-statement would solve the problem for many.

Financials - or, rather, they way they qualify them - is just ONE way Immigration blocks legit applications.

 

As I said before, most who drive-drunk make it home safely - but that doesn't make it right.  I am one of the many who have reported (on this forum) being "run over" multiple-times by Immigration's Corruption.  Most of the victims never post here.  It is widespread.

And as with drunk-drivers, it seems to be the same guys over and over. 

 

I liken Thai immigration to the DMV in California. It works fine for 99% of the public. They just complete their application on-time and mail their check or pay online. But the other 1% always seems to have a huge problem with everything and everyone. Their documents would not be accepted, their birthday was on a Sunday so they couldn't renew their license on time, the VIN numbers didn't match or any number of other reasons why the system is  a POC and need to be changed to make it cheaper or easier for them. 

 

It's your consulate that discontinued providing income letters, not the Thai immigration. Why not take them to task?

[john terry1001]

14 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

As I said before, most who drive-drunk make it home safely - but that doesn't make it right.  I am one of the many who have reported (on this forum) being "run over" multiple-times by Immigration's Corruption.  Most of the victims never post here.  It is widespread.

Like Yellowtail, I have also been here for nearly twenty years and every single one of those have been 100% legal, using extensions of stay. And like many, many others I have not had any issues with Immigration during all that time. I have been legal throughout.

 

Please don't insult us by comparing us with ILLEGAL drunk drivers when unlike some, we do everything within the law.

[john terry1001]

7 minutes ago, Yellowtail said:

 

It's your consulate that discontinued providing income letters, not the Thai immigration. Why not take them to task?

Just maybe he might have to prove that all the affidavits he declared were 100% accurate ????

[Bangyai]

18 hours ago, Yellowtail said:

 

If one is currently living comfortably it seems it would not be that difficult to save B400K in a few years and eliminate all the heartache, bother and additional expense of make visa runs. 

 

 

The wife and I love doing visa runs. Absolutely no heartache at all. Perfect mini break that we probably would otherwise not make and not a bother with at all. We have driven and flown to various neigboring countries and really enjoyed ourselves and we can easily afford it. I can understand how older or perhaps infirm expats who have to have their wives translate everything might find traveling daunting so extensions are probably the best thing for them as they are easily stressed out.

 

Three of our visa runs have even been to the UK !!

 

Reading through this thread I cant understand some people. On the one hand, those that do visa runs , breaking no laws , have no axe to grind with people doing extensions.

 

On the other hand , people doing extensions seem full of smug disdain and dislike for visa runners ??

On this thread they have been called ' gits '  and law breakers etc. How can people get become this bitter over other peoples affairs ? Totally bizarre.

 

It just brings home why a lot of expats are leary of approaching other expats because there really are a lot of strange and unpleasant people out there.

[DrJack54]

11 minutes ago, Bangyai said:

The wife and I love doing visa runs. Absolutely no heartache at all.

After your opening statement I thought this post can only get better. However it did not. Just a social commentary.

Fact is currently it is impossible to exit and re-enter Thailand. 

The thread is about options for ME marriage folk and others not able to do  border bounce.

I do annual extensions, however if married I would 100% have an ME.

In the current situation I would of changed from from ME (if I had one) to annual extension.

So globe trotter what's your plan since sounds like you have ME marriage.

[Bangyai]

14 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

After your opening statement I thought this post can only get better. However it did not. Just a social commentary.

Fact is currently it is impossible to exit and re-enter Thailand. 

The thread is about options for ME marriage folk and others not able to do  border bounce.

I do annual extensions, however if married I would 100% have an ME.

In the current situation I would of changed from from ME (if I had one) to annual extension.

So globe trotter what's your plan since sounds like you have ME marriage.

 

My post was intended to explain that leaving the country every 90 days can be a pleasure not a pain depending on how you do it.

 

We were to have gone to the UK again in September but that has all been cancelled as no chance of getting back easily to resume looking after the MIL. I have already applied for an extension ( already had more than needed in the bank ) awaiting verdict.  A lot of paperwork but what can you do. Especially after reading todays news about 7 new covid cases, all asymptomatic foreigners in alternative quaranteen . Clearly, any talk about opening up the country to tourism is going to be well squashed by this so anyone leaving will face a very long absence. 

[Inepto Cracy]

On the topic of agents, I just have a story to tell.

Using an International law firm to always do my retirement Extension to Stay and ME came to a big bang down to earth scolding from Immigration.

This was in 2014.

The IO I was dealing with had me running from pillar to post and back and then some more.

After I got my Permit to stay due to Retirement, he was very polite and he looked me in the eyes, I know don't shout at me now TV members, but he was very polite and said..." Now you see you do not ever use agent. I have have saved you thousands of Baht, you an do it on your own ok."

To this day I do it on my own.

Have your documents correct, Pictures ready, insurance ready etc.

The only question I get asked every year is how you have money if this money in bank? I never answer but smile politely.

I have put the questions into Thai language/English because that is how the IO asks me every year.

I do not work here, do nothing online work wise and I tell the IO my Thai lady only allows me to have SEX. Yes, Sleep Eat and Exercise.

I used to be able to nip down to Singapore if I had any work issues in my home country, as I did not need a work permit to answer and send copies of documents from there.

So every year I do my own leg work and paper work for my Permit to Stay and ME stamp.

I recently did my 90 Day report and after chatting with the IO, he said to me, amnesty only for tourists ok?

I am not a tourist but a long term expat on Retirement Permit to Stay.

So be legal, do it yourself and have a happy smile and never get angry inside, the IO can feel that anger like a sixth sense.

Good fortune everybody, the world is Fe das as we used to know it. This is a change of scenery that all people have to deal with now.

[DrJack54]

3 minutes ago, Bangyai said:

I have already applied for an extension ( already had more than needed in the bank ) awaiting verdict

Good plan. Think money in bank method is the go.

Good luck

[Bangyai]

14 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Good plan. Think money in bank method is the go.

Good luck

 

Unfortunately , good luck for me will be bad luck for my mother. We haven't seen her for 2 years and she was really looking forward to seeing her baby boy and wife again.  She understands the situation but is very crestfallen about our non arrival and we have no way of knowing when we will be able to see here again.

 

And yet , one of the many reasons I decided to try and stay here is because I was/am worried that I could possibly be an asymptomatic covid carrier and pass it on to my 87 year old mother. Horror of horrors. With the current case of the DJ in jail here , an asymptomatic carrier , who knows how many more there might be out here or whether we might have picked up a mild dose somewhere.

 

Paranoia much ?? Well maybe ,  but  better to err on the side of safety.

[from the home of CC]

On 9/3/2020 at 7:12 PM, JackThompson said:

Where/how is this "spirit" defined?  Does it have an oracle we can consult? 

  

We all saw what happened when they "investigated" the agent caught with everything down to the stamps.  Bosses and Bosses' Bosses - all on the take - shut that right down.  Would the Singapore Police, or similar, be called in to do this investigation?

 

We Wish!!  They might stop "adding new requirements" if they didn't have an agent-money incentive to block legit-applications.  Without the ability to line their pockets with agent-money, most existing-staff would quit and go to work as ordinary-criminals - maybe steal cars, or something.  Thailand might end up with friendly, professional IOs, like the PI.

 

Immigration could at least limit their schemes to those faking ED, Volunteer, etc - fellow "scoundrels" who don't want to bother going out for visas, and don't mind playing a part in corruption.  Sadly, many good folks are being forced down those routes now, by covid-closed borders.

 

I'm hoping any embarrassment-forced-change would arise from the international-press reporting on family-breakups, if they don't back-off of this hard-line stance.  That's really the only leverage we have.  They don't care about our Thai families, much less us.

you can sing that song for every immigration office in the world, there are many sad tales of the unprepared..

[Yellowtail]

3 hours ago, Bangyai said:

 

The wife and I love doing visa runs. Absolutely no heartache at all. Perfect mini break that we probably would otherwise not make and not a bother with at all. We have driven and flown to various neigboring countries and really enjoyed ourselves and we can easily afford it. I can understand how older or perhaps infirm expats who have to have their wives translate everything might find traveling daunting so extensions are probably the best thing for them as they are easily stressed out.

 

Three of our visa runs have even been to the UK !!

 

Reading through this thread I cant understand some people. On the one hand, those that do visa runs , breaking no laws , have no axe to grind with people doing extensions.

 

On the other hand , people doing extensions seem full of smug disdain and dislike for visa runners ??

On this thread they have been called ' gits '  and law breakers etc. How can people get become this bitter over other peoples affairs ? Totally bizarre.

 

It just brings home why a lot of expats are leary of approaching other expats because there really are a lot of strange and unpleasant people out there.

 

As I understand visa runs, it's guys taking a van or some-such to the border, getting stamped out and back in, not going to the south of France to holiday. You understand it differently, whatever.

 

I have no contempt or distain for people making visa runs, I have contempt and distain for people moaning on about how immigration and Thailand in general is full of greed and corruption and how the system needs to be changed to make their life easier regardless of what impact it has on anyone else.

 

I could be wrong, but I don't think the guys moaning on about the financial requirements are going to the south of France for a week to get stamped out and back in. 

 

 

 

 

[treetops]

2 hours ago, Bangyai said:

My post was intended to explain that leaving the country every 90 days can be a pleasure not a pain depending on how you do it.

It was also totally irrelevant to what was being discussed, but thanks for telling us anyway.

[Wongkitlo]

3 hours ago, Bangyai said:

 

The wife and I love doing visa runs. Absolutely no heartache at all. Perfect mini break that we probably would otherwise not make and not a bother with at all. We have driven and flown to various neigboring countries and really enjoyed ourselves and we can easily afford it. I can understand how older or perhaps infirm expats who have to have their wives translate everything might find traveling daunting so extensions are probably the best thing for them as they are easily stressed out.

 

Three of our visa runs have even been to the UK !!

 

Reading through this thread I cant understand some people. On the one hand, those that do visa runs , breaking no laws , have no axe to grind with people doing extensions.

 

On the other hand , people doing extensions seem full of smug disdain and dislike for visa runners ??

On this thread they have been called ' gits '  and law breakers etc. How can people get become this bitter over other peoples affairs ? Totally bizarre.

 

It just brings home why a lot of expats are leary of approaching other expats because there really are a lot of strange and unpleasant people out there.

Very wise post. I had a choice of putting money in the bank but love doing visa runs. I go by myself and have a party with my friends in Cambodia or Malaysia. I don't want Immigration coming around and looking in my bedroom and talking to my neighbours about me. Yeah there are some really bitter and twisted people in Thailand.  Some come here because they met a wonderful Thai girl. Most come because they don't fit in in their homeland and come and are happy to put their bad attitude and nasty feelings on every one else. It is funny when they squirm every time an amnesty is granted and they can't say"no home and catch Covid"

Edited September 5, 2020 by Wongkitlo
Edit

[Leaver]

On 9/3/2020 at 12:37 PM, fishtank said:

As Sheryl said, Non O Imm Visas are not designed so that people can live here full time.

If you want to live here full time get the correct Visa/Extension instead of finding loopholes.

Or pay an agent, which is probably why they ar pushing this agenda.    

[rattlesnake]

On 9/3/2020 at 7:23 AM, Sheryl said:

Bear in mind that while there is no law against border runs, ME visas were not designed with the intention that they would be used in that manner; they are designed for people who make multiple separate trips here, with genuine gaps in between, and the "border run" approach is basically a loophole. 

 

So no reason for Immigration to view inability to do border runs as a legitimate problem; from their standpoint people living here full time should get annual extensions of stay.  "I can't afford to meet the financial requirement"  will get zero sympathy as the government does not want retirees here who lack the minimum required funds.

You clearly do not understand the issue here. I, for instance, will typically spend 9-10 months per year in Thailand, yet I have hardly ever done a border run. This visa was made for people who leave the country every several weeks and have assets and income abroad. The issue now is that it is incredibly difficult/costly to go and come back. People in their 30s or 40s often do not have a spare 400k nor a pension (even if they do make a good living) and therefore they are in a very difficult situation. It is not their fault, they are not responsible for the current situation and it is not something they should/could have planned for.

 

Thailand is perfectly entitled to question/review this visa if it wants to, but not in a case of force majeure as is the case now. "Get an extension or go home" is not acceptable, period. (And by the way what is "home" when you have spent 10 months a year in Thailand for the past 12 years, your wife is Thai, your children are Thai and go to school in Thailand?).

 

[KhaoYai]

On 9/3/2020 at 6:41 AM, richard_smith237 said:

While there are flaws in your arguments what you point out is ultimately heart breaking and should garner a great deal of sympathy. 

No sympathy from me. I have the same visa but can't return because of the expense and quarantine requirements. I would have to take a month off work (+ the hideous expense) just to get a couple of weeks with my wife and then what? Do it all again each time? Just not possible. Offshore workers face an even bigger, if not impossible mission to visit their loved ones. Yet we are all using our visas correctly. Why should border runners on the same visa as us be able to stay? They at least have the ability to convert to an extension without leaving the country - if they can't meet the financial requirements, well they really shouldn't be living in Thailand - 40,000 per month is hardly a fortune.

 

As Sheryl said, there's nothing illegal about staying in Thailand on a multi and doing border runs but that is not what a multi was intended for. They just got caught out by the current situation and should think themselves lucky that they have been able to stay for an extra 6 months.  Granted, some will have put down roots and have families but so do I and thousands of others who need to visit but can't.

 

 

[farmerjo]

Last time i visited immigration the officer said that me being on a Non-O ME was the correct visa as still occassionally work abroad,after jumping through the hoops to get back here i will have to go down the extension path and be more picky about the dates i leave the country in the future.

Edited September 5, 2020 by farmerjo

[ubonjoe]

This topic has certainly run its course since it has turned into mostly bickering and baiting posts after removing about 40 of them.

This topic is now