UK Farangs Receiving a Capped State Pension

[PaDavid]

 

Hey guys,

I’m currently having a run in with DWP (Department for Works & Pensions). Two main bones of contention:
1. They don’t notify HMRC if your pension has been capped, so you end up paying too much tax - unless you spot it and notify HMRC yourself.
2. They recently sent me a Life Certificate (to prove I’m alive). The only way I can return this is by post. I’m arguing it’s blatantly irresponsible of them to expect me to go to a post office during Covid (74 with emphysema). Potentially risking my life to prove I’m not dead! Especially as, according to the BBC, civil servants are still refusing to go back to the office. Also, DWP don’t track the post, so if you don’t receive the certificate they have no way of knowing. With my first one the only inkling I had something was wrong was when my State Pension payments stopped. 

There are other items on my agenda. Lots of them. It would appear DWP staff are a load of jobsworths (I’m now copying my MP into all the emails I send). It would help me somewhat if I had an idea if others have been similarly affected:
A. Have you had problems with effectively paying too much tax on your State Pension? Yes, I do realise Personal Allowance minus State Pension = Tax Code. However, if the figure used for your SP is too high, your tax code is too low and you end up paying too much tax (if your total income is over £12,500pa). 
B. Have you ever received a Life Certificate? When was the last one? 
C. Any other experiences of dealings with DWP to relate?

[Kwasaki]

20 minutes ago, PaDavid said:

Any UK pensioners prepared to admit they haven’t actually notified DWP they’ve moved to Thailand ?

No I was already in Thailand at 57 so when my pension was due at 65 the IPC sent me the application pension forms.

Discussed in other threads the life proof forms allegedly sent to me have not been received twice in Thailand and my pension was stopped.

 

[blackcab]

Discussion of illegal activity has been removed.

[izod10]

Not worth arguing the toss here. Depending on what version of illegal/criminality is accepted.  The DWP version does state no illegal /criminality can be attached to the individual in receipt of OAP.  Is accepted Thailand is a frozen country  ,but the legal requirement to conform to that requirement is not there (DWP website)

[Bundooman]

18 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

No I was already in Thailand at 57 so when my pension was due at 65 the IPC sent me the application pension forms.

Discussed in other threads the life proof forms allegedly sent to me have not been received twice in Thailand and my pension was stopped.

 

I'm 76 and was already receiving my State pension when I arrived here to live in 2005.

The DWP is also aware that I live in Thailand and so I receive the reduced amount accordingly.

When I turned 70, my Tax returns ceased and I have not completed any since then.

My former Tax Accountants paved the way for my earlier tax returns, so I guess I am receiving the correct amount.

 

However, I am interested in this "Life Proof" form. How do you know whether one has been sent to you?

What triggers such a document? Does the DWP just send them out randomly or are certain people targeted for a specific reason? 

Do the DWP advise you by any other means that such a form has been sent?

I would imagine that a good many of us are recipients of the State Pension and a sudden cessation of it would be quite a Shock.

 

Can anyone explain the circumstances of this?

I am fully aware of why the DWP would want to check that they are only paying those entitled and still alve!

 

 

[Asquith Production]

1 minute ago, Bundooman said:

I'm 76 and was already receiving my State pension when I arrived here to live in 2005.

The DWP is also aware that I live in Thailand and so I receive the reduced amount accordingly.

When I turned 70, my Tax returns ceased and I have not completed any since then.

My former Tax Accountants paved the way for my earlier tax returns, so I guess I am receiving the correct amount.

 

However, I am interested in this "Life Proof" form. How do you know whether one has been sent to you?

What triggers such a document? Does the DWP just send them out randomly or are certain people targeted for a specific reason? 

Do the DWP advise you by any other means that such a form has been sent?

I would imagine that a good many of us are recipients of the State Pension and a sudden cessation of it would be quite a Shock.

 

Can anyone explain the circumstances of this?

I am fully aware of why the DWP would want to check that they are only paying those entitled and still alve!

 

 

I completed one last week. I get one for completion every 2 years. The problem being that the part for completion by the Thai person is in English and I have had issues with getting it signed especially from my bank. They should have an explanation in Thai so they know what they are signing. Thais do not like signing forms.

[hugh2121]

email received from DWP in July this year:

Dear Mr Morgan,  

Thank you for your email dated 03/07/2020.

I have checked our records and can confirm we have not issued any life certificates to you since November 2018, which you completed and returned.

Due to the ongoing restrictions caused by Covid-19 we have stopped issuing our life certificate requests until worldwide circumstances change. Your payments will continue to be issued every four weeks.

Yours Sincerely

 

Gemma 

+44 191 2187777

The Pension Service 11

Mail Handling Site A

Wolverhampton

[sandyf]

Yes, I pay too much tax and just claim a refund every year, not a problem and comes in handy at holiday time.

If you have a legitimate issue with DWP there is little point phoning or writing, been there and got little response. The best bet is to follow the formal complaints procedure, I got £25 from them once for poor service.

[Kwasaki]

22 minutes ago, Bundooman said:

I'm 76 and was already receiving my State pension when I arrived here to live in 2005.

The DWP is also aware that I live in Thailand and so I receive the reduced amount accordingly.

When I turned 70, my Tax returns ceased and I have not completed any since then.

My former Tax Accountants paved the way for my earlier tax returns, so I guess I am receiving the correct amount.

 

However, I am interested in this "Life Proof" form. How do you know whether one has been sent to you?

What triggers such a document? Does the DWP just send them out randomly or are certain people targeted for a specific reason? 

Do the DWP advise you by any other means that such a form has been sent?

I would imagine that a good many of us are recipients of the State Pension and a sudden cessation of it would be quite a Shock.

 

Can anyone explain the circumstances of this?

I am fully aware of why the DWP would want to check that they are only paying those entitled and still alve!

 

 

If you want to know if they have sent a life form its the IPC you should telephone.

If you're pension doesn't get stopped leave things alone. 

If you do not get life forms sent to you,  you have no worries. 

I have had 2 life forms this year 1 in January and one in August I think they thought I might cope with C19. ????????????????

Edited September 7, 2020 by Kwasaki

[Guderian]

When I hit 67 in 3 1/2 years time, I'll be due a Dutch state pension covering the seven years I worked there and paid contributions. A friend who's already getting it but living in the UK says that he has to complete a proof-of-life form from the Dutch every year. He showed me the list of requirements, and as far as I could see it is not going to be possible to get the form properly certified here in Thailand. Honestly, the Cloggies make the DWP look like a highly-efficient operation in comparison, so don't complain too much. I had the same thing five or six years ago with Barclays International, none of the possible signatories of the form was available in Thailand. In that case i was lucky, one of their investment bankers from Dubai was passing through town and he was able to authorise the form and hand it in for me. Really, these organisations are living in another plane of existence, and they simply couldn't care less about the problems it causes us.

[adammike]

4 minutes ago, Guderian said:

When I hit 67 in 3 1/2 years time, I'll be due a Dutch state pension covering the seven years I worked there and paid contributions. A friend who's already getting it but living in the UK says that he has to complete a proof-of-life form from the Dutch every year. He showed me the list of requirements, and as far as I could see it is not going to be possible to get the form properly certified here in Thailand. Honestly, the Cloggies make the DWP look like a highly-efficient operation in comparison, so don't complain too much. I had the same thing five or six years ago with Barclays International, none of the possible signatories of the form was available in Thailand. In that case i was lucky, one of their investment bankers from Dubai was passing through town and he was able to authorise the form and hand it in for me. Really, these organisations are living in another plane of existence, and they simply couldn't care less about the problems it causes us.

In the UK you have to have ten years of contributions before you are eligible for any state pension.I paid in for about 12 years so I get £48 a week.

[Kwasaki]

9 minutes ago, hugh2121 said:

email received from DWP in July this year:

Dear Mr Morgan,  

Thank you for your email dated 03/07/2020.

I have checked our records and can confirm we have not issued any life certificates to you since November 2018, which you completed and returned.

Due to the ongoing restrictions caused by Covid-19 we have stopped issuing our life certificate requests until worldwide circumstances change. Your payments will continue to be issued every four weeks.

Yours Sincerely

 

Gemma 

+44 191 2187777

The Pension Service 11

Mail Handling Site A

Wolverhampton

As usual they lied I have had 2 life forms this year.

I have sent one off today to IPC.

I have been honest with them from the start but it counts for nowt,  they stopped my pension twice when they said they had sent a life form and I had not sent it back. 

I only received a life form from them after telephoning and they sent me a email download copy. 

They incompodent A holes. 

 

 

[chilly07]

Just done a DWP life cert by 880 bht EMS. Well worth the expense to avoid pension stoppage. They give 60 days to respond. They should do it by email as my other pension providers do.

Also have just completed my tax return on line using government web site so they are up to date on my pension freeze. Best to do it each year. Untill now this has generated a modest refund which I expect this mth and at the latest Jan next year

 

[Hotrats]

I received a "Proof of Life" form just last week. It took 4 weeks to reach me judging by the date on their letter. I got it signed and sent it back straight away. I seem to get one every 2 years. The annoying thing about these forms is finding someone appropriate to counter sign it. This time I got it signed by my local chemist. Am now waiting to see if they consider her as having sufficient social standing. 

[chilly07]

On the question of certification I use a certified notary which most Thai lawyers are

[JAS21]

I receive my capped pension tax free.  Whatever taxes I owe get all lumped together and I pay HMRC every year in January. I use 'TaxCalc', have done for many many years even back to the time when it was free.

 

Received my Life Cert form a couple of weeks ago, now completed and ready to post...tried to post it today, of course the PO was shut. My Thai friend, now retired, signed the form...I asked him to just write 'retired' in the space where it should be stamped. It will probably come back!

Edited September 7, 2020 by JAS21

[Orton Rd]

31 minutes ago, Hotrats said:

I received a "Proof of Life" form just last week. It took 4 weeks to reach me judging by the date on their letter. I got it signed and sent it back straight away. I seem to get one every 2 years. The annoying thing about these forms is finding someone appropriate to counter sign it. This time I got it signed by my local chemist. Am now waiting to see if they consider her as having sufficient social standing. 

As long as they get them back with something on them I don't think they care who signs it, never heard of one being rejected

[Matzzon]

As you describe in point 2, you have problem going out during the pandemic. That must mean you have someone helping you already, because you have to buy food or groceries, right. How would it be to send that person with the letter at the same time?

[ChrisKC]

1 hour ago, Bundooman said:

I'm 76 and was already receiving my State pension when I arrived here to live in 2005.

The DWP is also aware that I live in Thailand and so I receive the reduced amount accordingly.

When I turned 70, my Tax returns ceased and I have not completed any since then.

My former Tax Accountants paved the way for my earlier tax returns, so I guess I am receiving the correct amount.

 

However, I am interested in this "Life Proof" form. How do you know whether one has been sent to you?

What triggers such a document? Does the DWP just send them out randomly or are certain people targeted for a specific reason? 

Do the DWP advise you by any other means that such a form has been sent?

I would imagine that a good many of us are recipients of the State Pension and a sudden cessation of it would be quite a Shock.

 

Can anyone explain the circumstances of this?

I am fully aware of why the DWP would want to check that they are only paying those entitled and still alve!

 

 

I have just received life certificate number 2. It seems that it might be every two years after reaching 75. I just go to my local Clinic with my Thai wife. we get the certificate signed in English by the Doctor both on the allotted line and across the Thai stamp. I return them in a new envelope. (I was sent an SAE) registered (not EMS which is hopelessly expensive). No problem. The Doctor's fee B50. Only blood pressure taken. Take your passport with you. By the way, the covering letter states that you have 16 weeks from the date of it to return the certificate - seems reasonable to me!

 

PM me if you would like to see what the letter and certificate looks like.

[Hi Tea]

1 hour ago, Bundooman said:

I would imagine that a good many of us are recipients of the State Pension and a sudden cessation of it would be quite a Shock.

A telephone call to the DWP immediately reinstates it.

[Hi Tea]

21 hours ago, PaDavid said:

2.  I’m arguing it’s blatantly irresponsible of them to expect me to go to a post office during Covid (74 with emphysema). Potentially risking my life to prove I’m not dead!

I understand how debilitating emphysema can be but are you confined to your home 24/7?  If not, surely you're not risking your life by going to the Post Office any more than you are by doing your shopping or going to the ATM, for example?  Maybe you could ask someone to post the letter for you, it doesn't have to be done personally.

 

21 hours ago, PaDavid said:

B. Have you ever received a Life Certificate? When was the last one? 

I received one about three weeks ago.

[peterpop]

1 hour ago, Hotrats said:

I received a "Proof of Life" form just last week. It took 4 weeks to reach me judging by the date on their letter. I got it signed and sent it back straight away. I seem to get one every 2 years. The annoying thing about these forms is finding someone appropriate to counter sign it. This time I got it signed by my local chemist. Am now waiting to see if they consider her as having sufficient social standing. 

I am sure they do not check the countersigning person.  I have used a Thai person and they have not been called.

 

1 hour ago, Hotrats said:

I received a "Proof of Life" form just last week. It took 4 weeks to reach me judging by the date on their letter. I got it signed and sent it back straight away. I seem to get one every 2 years. The annoying thing about these forms is finding someone appropriate to counter sign it. This time I got it signed by my local chemist. Am now waiting to see if they consider her as having sufficient social standing. 

 

[Hi Tea]

1 hour ago, Asquith Production said:

The problem being that the part for completion by the Thai person is in English and I have had issues with getting it signed especially from my bank. They should have an explanation in Thai so they know what they are signing. Thais do not like signing forms.

You're joking, surely?  Why should the DWP provide a Thai (and, therefore, every other language) translation? 

 

Thais who are familiar with "signing forms", eg. lawyers/notaries, and most professionals who are the category that have to witness the document, don't have problems with them.  If it's so impossible for you to find a witness and you want the form in Thai, you could take it to a translation service and do it yourself.

[n210mp]

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Posted 1 hour ago

email received from DWP in July this year:

Dear Mr Morgan,  

Thank you for your email dated 03/07/2020.

I have checked our records and can confirm we have not issued any life certificates to you since November 2018, which you completed and returned.

Due to the ongoing restrictions caused by Covid-19 we have stopped issuing our life certificate requests until worldwide circumstances change. Your payments will continue to be issued every four weeks.

Yours Sincerely

 

Gemma 

+44 191 2187777

The Pension Service 11

Mail Handling Site A

Wolverhampton

Hahahaha They sent me one last week!

 

[Hi Tea]

1 hour ago, Kwasaki said:

1 hour ago, hugh2121 said:

email received from DWP in July this year:

Dear Mr Morgan,  

Thank you for your email dated 03/07/2020.

I have checked our records and can confirm we have not issued any life certificates to you since November 2018, which you completed and returned.

Due to the ongoing restrictions caused by Covid-19 we have stopped issuing our life certificate requests until worldwide circumstances change. Your payments will continue to be issued every four weeks.

Yours Sincerely

 

Gemma 

+44 191 2187777

The Pension Service 11

Mail Handling Site A

Wolverhampton

As usual they lied I have had 2 life forms this year.

They lied?  Thats a bit harsh.  That email was sent after 3rd July so perhaps as far as DWP is concerned, as she said in her email, worldwide circumstances since that date have changed?

[Hi Tea]

1 hour ago, chilly07 said:

Just done a DWP life cert by 880 bht EMS. Well worth the expense to avoid pension stoppage...They give 60 days to respond.

You could have sent it Registered, much cheaper and still tracked.  The DWP gives you 16 weeks to respond, i.e. return the signed form, not 60 days.

[Hi Tea]

1 hour ago, chilly07 said:

On the question of certification I use a certified notary which most Thai lawyers are

That's the easy, most logical way but some posters like to make things seem as difficult as possible!

[Hi Tea]

1 hour ago, JAS21 said:

Received my Life Cert form a couple of weeks ago, now completed and ready to post...tried to post it today, of course the PO was shut.

Did you really expect it to be open on a public holiday?

Edited September 7, 2020 by Hi Tea

[hotandsticky]

1 minute ago, Hi Tea said:

You could have sent it Registered, much cheaper and still tracked.  The DWP gives you 16 weeks to respond, i.e. return the signed form, not 60 days.

 

Just send it airmail.

 

Scan a copy first to [email protected]  (that email address is changing shortly) and if you really can't sleep at night - phone them. They have confirmed, via email, they will accept a phone call subject to you answering a couple of security questions:-

 

 

Dear Mr XXX


Thank you for your email to Newcastle Pension Centre (International Group) dated 28 August 2020.


Due to lockdown restrictions because of COVID-19, we understand the forms are very difficult to have witnessed and returned.


We can clear this Life Certificate over the telephone for you, subject to you answering some security questions


If you call our office on 0044 1912187777 (option 1) between the hours of 09:30-15:30 UK time, Monday – Friday, we will endeavour to assist you with this.


Yours Sincerely


Cheryl


 

[Bangkok Barry]

I think they have no set time for sending out the 'Life' form and that it's just done randomly. I'm not sure because although I've had two or three, plus the same for a non-government pension, I didn't keep a record of when they were received.

 

One major problem was that for about 18 months I received almost no mail at all, and it transpired that the local postie was simply burning the mail as that was simpler than delivering it. I have no idea what happened to him - probably nothing as he was due to retire anyway - and the new postie is a member of the family and so all is well again.

 

Fortunately, I did receive final reminders and because of the time lapse in receiving mail from the UK and the final deadline date was near I was able to email them and tell them I was dealing with it. A uniform at the local ampur refused to sign it and was clearly waiting for an incentive to do so, so my brother-in-law who is a policeman did it. It isn't supposed to be a family member, but of course he has a different surname so they don't know he's family. A policeman isn't actually one of the professions on their list but I emailed them and they okayed it.