Retirement visa denied -Bank balance below 800k within 3 months of receiving visa

[JimGant]

2 minutes ago, checkered flag said:

He posted a complaint about the TI office in Chiang Khan, who was only doing his/her job. It's real easy to complain about others, but your responsible for your own actions. Dipping into the 800K is dangerous and he should have know better.

Don't blame the TI officer but accept your responsibility. 

Only doing his/her job -- by posting an official checklist that's incomplete -- but one that the prudent person would assume is thorough and complete...?

[473geo]

Well the sign does state in the account before and after, would one really expect intricate detail on a sign such as this?

Well done immigration for being considerate enough to provide a solution for your oversight

[Onrai]

15 minutes ago, 473geo said:

Well the sign does state in the account before and after, would one really expect intricate detail on a sign such as this?

There is nothing on that sign that says the 800k has to be in the bank  2 months prior and 3 months after obtaining the retirement visa. Not sure if English is your native language but it clearly omits the requirement. Immigration officer agreed after reading the sign which is why they ordered a new sign. The translation was inaccurate.

[473geo]

5. "However the deposit must be in the account before and after"

Edited September 17, 2020 by 473geo

[Onrai]

4 minutes ago, 473geo said:

5. "However the deposit must be in the account before and after"

How long before, how long after? Show me where it says 2 months before and 3 months after.

[473geo]

Just now, Onrai said:

How long before, how long after? Show me where it says 2 months before and 3 months after.

As i pointed out in my previous port you really expect such intricate detail on a sign such as this?

For those wondering why you are getting such a hard time I think this little exchange rather explains that!

[Sheryl]

A rude and unhelpful post, and reply to it, has been removed.

 

OP you have discovered one key reason to read Thai Visa regularly (and why it is called that).  I scan the Visa forum each day precisely to stay up to date as Thai Immigration does change its requirements and practices without much publicizing.

[Onrai]

2 months before applying  and 3 months following receipt of your retirement visa is not intricate detail it is clear and concise prose. As I said immigration agreed the sign was not accurate which is the reason they made an exception in giving me my visa. 
Not sure why you insist on maintaining something Is too intricate in detail when a 10 word sentence makes it abundantly clear.

[Onrai]

6 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

OP you have discovered one key reason to read Thai Visa regularly (and why it is called that).  I scan the Visa forum each day precisely to stay up to date as Thai Immigration does change its requirements and practices without much publicizing

Agree with you 100%. 

[JimGant]

On 9/12/2020 at 11:57 AM, Onrai said:

Unfortunately, Chiang Khan’s checklist did not include the pertinent provision regarding maintaining a balance of 800k after getting the visa.

OP, are you blaming Chiang Khan's misinformation -- or Phuket's?

[Sheryl]

unhelpful and flaming posts have been removed.

[473geo]

2 hours ago, Onrai said:

How long before, how long after? Show me where it says 2 months before and 3 months after.

Here is a little tip, find out the answer to your questions before you get to the door of the immigration office ????

[Onrai]

2 hours ago, JimGant said:

OP, are you blaming Chiang Khan's misinformation -- or Phuket's?

I take responsibility for making the mistake and not going to the Thai immigration website to verify what was required to renew my retirement visa. However, neither the information Chiang Khan Immigration  provided or the sign in front of the Phuket immigration office correctly stated the requirement. 

[problemfarang]

On 9/16/2020 at 2:05 PM, JimGant said:

Maybe earlier reports in this thread clarify this, but I haven't gone back to check......

 

How can they deny a non o multi -- deny in what fashion? If the visa is still valid, then you get stamped in for 90 days (with few exceptions, like Interpol has a warrant out, etc). Of course, whe're now in the land of no more 90 day stamps, due to border closure.

 

Then, are you saying you got an agent to do a "bogus border run", whereby Imm stamped you out, then right back in for 90 days?

 

Actually, this would be a worthwhile service, and one Imm should have evaluated on its own merits. Hopefully the fee wasn't too high -- and hopefully if such a service for "bogus border runs" exists, such agents can be readily identified, as such agents are NOT in the same ilk as those sidestepping financial requirements.

Hi,

They can deny like in my case. My salary is more than 40K and shown in my payment slip. Although when i got my bank statement its was less than 40K. Reason for this is my bank auto payments. And for some reason Bangkok Bank dont show this payments but show what you have at the end of it. So they denied. I know payment salary is the real thing, well seems its nothing for both Khon Kaen IO. 

 

Then this agency highly recommended from one of my friends at the office came up. I paid them around 29K and after 1 month they gave me NON-O 1 year visa. 

 

The thing is, you cannot do anything at all if they say NO once. She didnt look at my documents, my nothing! she just asked me show me 40K on your 1 year bank statement. Thats all. then she said no your salary is not 40K. I showed her my salary slip she says it means nothing, bank statement is the thing. I showed her my auto payments and all too. I talked with the big boss, still NO. what else you can do?! left the IO

Edited September 17, 2020 by problemfarang

[Peter Denis]

12 hours ago, problemfarang said:

Hi,

They can deny like in my case. My salary is more than 40K and shown in my payment slip. Although when i got my bank statement its was less than 40K. Reason for this is my bank auto payments. And for some reason Bangkok Bank dont show this payments but show what you have at the end of it. So they denied. I know payment salary is the real thing, well seems its nothing for both Khon Kaen IO.

Sorry to hear about your troubles and denial by IO for such a petty reason.

Did you not request a 12-month bank-statement from your Bank?  Such statement shows ALL transactions on your bank-account, so if Bangkok Bank deducted a transaction fee its possible that would have been shown on the statement. 

But indeed it is not the amount that is transferred to your account that counts, but the actual amount you did receive on the account.  That's one of the advantages of using TransferWise to transfer money as you know beforehand exactly how much THB you will receive with no surprises or deductions for bank-fees.

[userabcd]

12 hours ago, problemfarang said:

Hi,

They can deny like in my case. My salary is more than 40K and shown in my payment slip. Although when i got my bank statement its was less than 40K. Reason for this is my bank auto payments. And for some reason Bangkok Bank dont show this payments but show what you have at the end of it. So they denied. I know payment salary is the real thing, well seems its nothing for both Khon Kaen IO. 

 

Then this agency highly recommended from one of my friends at the office came up. I paid them around 29K and after 1 month they gave me NON-O 1 year visa. 

 

The thing is, you cannot do anything at all if they say NO once. She didnt look at my documents, my nothing! she just asked me show me 40K on your 1 year bank statement. Thats all. then she said no your salary is not 40K. I showed her my salary slip she says it means nothing, bank statement is the thing. I showed her my auto payments and all too. I talked with the big boss, still NO. what else you can do?! left the IO

Did you go to the bank and get them to print 1 year of bank statements showing all the detail and listing the deposits of over 40000 baht which could be correlated to your pay slips?

 

Surely when you deposit a sum it is reflected as such on the statement as a transaction record.

[JackThompson]

23 hours ago, checkered flag said:

On 9/16/2020 at 2:38 PM, Pib said:

If Thailand "really" wanted to create a vehicle for a person to do a quick border hop in light of COVID, it seems they could set down with a neighboring country like Myanmar, Laos and/or Cambodia and setup a "turnstile. COVID controlled" type border hop.  ...

The border hops were not controlled by the local immigration office,  ...

They were controlled by immigration at the border.

23 hours ago, checkered flag said:

... while those doing legitimate extension had to do everything by the book.

So did everyone using Visas - following the Law as applies to their Visa type.

 

23 hours ago, checkered flag said:

It wasn't hard IMO, but everything had to be done. I found that asking the IO politely they would be very specific and helpful.

I found they were rude and demeaning to my wife in every office but one up in Issan.  Jomtien was particularly cruel and degrading to her.  Bangkok took less time abusing her, but told her she was married to a 'criminal' because I had a Non-O-ME Visa.

 

23 hours ago, checkered flag said:

If the legitimate way requires proof of financials, those avoiding the financials by doing in and outs, must be viewed as circumventing the system. 

No, the MFA has their rules, and Immigration has other ones. 

 

You are always telling us that we should not question Immigration's Rules - including Made-UP Fake-Rules when they want agent-money. 

 

Why are you now saying the MFA's rules are bad?  Do you work for immigration?

 

23 hours ago, checkered flag said:

Now with the borders closed the in and out crowd needs to face the IO who can see all in their computers and your passport. Its no wonder that they stick strictly to the rules and are less than pleased. 

The IO at the border can "see all in their computers" as well.  Easy to get a new passport, and "clear" the visible history.

They are "less than pleased" with Law-Abiding foreigners, who used the MFA to avoid their corruption - so did not collaborate with an agent to pay them off - or do a little monkey-dance for their sick sense of amusement as punishment for not making the payoff.

 

But they grudgingly provided 60-day extensions for those 90-day Non-O-ME entries - would not have been done, unless We Were Law-Abiding.

[Pib]

13 hours ago, problemfarang said:

 

They can deny like in my case. My salary is more than 40K and shown in my payment slip. Although when i got my bank statement its was less than 40K. Reason for this is my bank auto payments. And for some reason Bangkok Bank dont show this payments but show what you have at the end of it. So they denied. I know payment salary is the real thing, well seems its nothing for both Khon Kaen IO. 

 

This sounds strange to me...that is, Bangkok Bank would not show on your passbook the total amount direct deposited from your employer.   

 

You sure you didn't mean to say the "Net" pay arriving your Bangkok Bank acct is less than Bt40K because of deductions your employer make such as income tax/social security which occur before they transmitted your Net pay to Bangkok Bank.....deductions that occur on the employer's end; not the bank receiving your direct deposit pay. 

 

And then whatever automatic transfers/payments you have setup with Bangkok Bank are really separate issues....and would show on your passbook "after" your Net pay direct pay transaction was reflected.  The IO would not even care about those transactions because they could be for anything and everything like paying your electric bill, transferring some money between accts, just the typical transactions everyone does....transaction that typically eat up most of person's monthly pay....then next month's pay comes in and the cycle repeats.

 

Edited September 18, 2020 by Pib

[problemfarang]

1 hour ago, Peter Denis said:

Sorry to hear about your troubles and denial by IO for such a petty reason.

Did you not request a 12-month bank-statement from your Bank?  Such statement shows ALL transactions on your bank-account, so if Bangkok Bank deducted a transaction fee its possible that would have been shown on the statement. 

But indeed it is not the amount that is transferred to your account that counts, but the actual amount you did receive on the account.  That's one of the advantages of using TransferWise to transfer money as you know beforehand exactly how much THB you will receive with no surprises or deductions for bank-fees.

Hi,

Thanks. yes 12 month bank statement. But still they only cared about the money when every auto payments done. Well its like paying my new home, water-power bills and etc. 

[problemfarang]

54 minutes ago, userabcd said:

Did you go to the bank and get them to print 1 year of bank statements showing all the detail and listing the deposits of over 40000 baht which could be correlated to your pay slips?

 

Surely when you deposit a sum it is reflected as such on the statement as a transaction record.

 

they want 1 year bank statement and salary slip and a letter from your company as an evidence of your income. Also my work permit of course. But they didnt even check them. just asked me to show 40K in my bank statement. And still a NO even though i showed them my salary is more than 40K

[problemfarang]

10 minutes ago, Pib said:

 

This sounds strange to me...that is, Bangkok Bank would not show on your passbook the total amount direct deposited from your employer.   

 

You sure you didn't mean to say the "Net" pay arriving your Bangkok Bank acct is less than Bt40K because of deductions your employer make such as income tax/social security which occur before they transmitted your Net pay to Bangkok Bank.....deductions that occur on the employer's end; not the bank receiving your direct deposit pay. 

 

And then whatever automatic transfers/payments you have setup with Bangkok Bank are really separate issues....and would show on your passbook "after" your Net pay direct pay transaction was reflected.  The IO would even care about those transactions because they could be for anything and everything like paying your electric bill, transferring some money between accts, just the typical transactions everyone does....transaction that typically eat up most of person's monthly pay....then next month's pay comes in and the cycle repeats.

 

 

Hi, yes in 12 month statement everything can be seen. All auto payments and so on. In my case its like my new house, power-water bills and some others. She didnt care my salary slip and also the letter from my company telling my salary. She didnt check my mountain high documents (lol) all she asked me was to show her 40K in the bank statement. She want to see that like in total amount right there! she doesnt care how it splits or else but the total is there. Like i said she just want to see 40K after all payments. Like what you have in your hand after all your payments. She didnt even add up and could see its more than 40K but she didnt care. I talked with the big boss at some point the big boss was like ohh yes you are right, but then the IO talked to him in private. then he was again no. this was Khon Kaen IO btw.

 

PS: the tax and SSO payments are also shown on my payment slip. They said they dont care about payment slip at all. 

Edited September 18, 2020 by problemfarang

[Pib]

5 minutes ago, problemfarang said:

 

Hi, yes in 12 month statement everything can be seen. All auto payments and so on. In my case its like my new house, power-water bills and some others. She didnt care my salary slip and also the letter from my company telling my salary. She didnt check my mountain high documents (lol) all she asked me was to show her 40K in the bank statement. She want to see that like in total amount right there! she doesnt care how it splits or else but the total is there. Like i said she just want to see 40K after all payments. Like what you have in your hand after all your payments. She didnt even add up and could see its more than 40K but she didnt care. I talked with the big boss at some point the big boss was like ohh yes you are right, but then the IO talked to him in private. then he was again no. this was Khon Kaen IO btw.

 

PS: the tax and SSO payments are also shown on my payment slip. They said they dont care about payment slip at all. 

 

The IO is definitely not complying with their regulation as it says nothing about it's gotta be Net pay, it gotta be Bt40K left over at all auto payments, etc. 

 

https://forum.thaivisa.com/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=561475

[Peter Denis]

7 minutes ago, problemfarang said:

 

Hi, yes in 12 month statement everything can be seen. All auto payments and so on. In my case its like my new house, power-water bills and some others. She didnt care my salary slip and also the letter from my company telling my salary. She didnt check my mountain high documents (lol) all she asked me was to show her 40K in the bank statement. She want to see that like in total amount right there! she doesnt care how it splits or else but the total is there. Like i said she just want to see 40K after all payments. Like what you have in your hand after all your payments. She didnt even add up and could see its more than 40K but she didnt care. I talked with the big boss at some point the big boss was like ohh yes you are right, but then the IO talked to him in private. then he was again no. this was Khon Kaen IO btw.

 

PS: the tax and SSO payments are also shown on my payment slip. They said they dont care about payment slip at all. 

This is very very strange...

> Did your 12-month statement show 12 transfers of +40K during each and every month of the previous year?

> Did you have evidence that each of those +40K transfers did came from income you earned?

 

If both questions are YES, I simply do not understand how the officer could refuse your application...

[frantick]

So I don't have to worry about this until next June, but if I have a fixed account with the 800k and only two updates in the passbook, initial deposit and update on extension renewal date, do I still need to get a 12mo statement? Cuz you can't withdraw from a fixed account or you'd need to open a new account. But I'm worried the io's won't figure that out. Jomtien.

[Pib]

2 minutes ago, frantick said:

So I don't have to worry about this until next June, but if I have a fixed account with the 800k and only two updates in the passbook, initial deposit and update on extension renewal date, do I still need to get a 12mo statement? Cuz you can't withdraw from a fixed account or you'd need to open a new account. But I'm worried the io's won't figure that out. Jomtien.

It would depend on your IO, but you shouldn't  be surprised if they ask for one because if your bank prints a consolidated transaction entry in your passbook because it been many months since your last transaction the IO may wonder if you maintained the required 800K three months after the extension, then didn't drop below Bt400K for the next seven months, and then got back up to at least Bt800K during the next two months.  

 

With so many different types of savings accts such as regular, fixed, hybrid, etc...it can be hard for an IO to know what type of acct you have and then be more understanding that it was a fixed acct you simply never touch, how it pays interest infrequently/maybe only once a year/etc.   So, since your passbook is going to reflect a couple transactions per year don't be surprised if the IO asks for annual statement.

 

If your bank is the type that will print a passbook "B/F" (Balance Forward) transaction each time you want to update the passbook even through you know the balance has not changed and even if a fixed acct, then it may be smart to do that once a month.   A B/F transaction simply reports your balance for that day.   Bangkok Bank accts are that way.  It should print a B/F transaction from a Passbook Update Machine...if not, the bank teller can force a B/F passbook transaction at the counter.   

 

This way you will show numerous and "frequent" updates of your passbook which should satisfy the IO that your passbook reflects all transactions....would show if you lived-up to the required income/balance requirements throughout the year as that is what they are looking for.

[frantick]

4 minutes ago, Pib said:

It would depend on your IO, but you shouldn't  be surprised if they ask for one because if your bank prints a consolidated transaction entry in your passbook because it been many months since your last transaction the IO may wonder if you maintained the required 800K three months after the extension, then didn't drop below Bt400K for the next seven months, and then got back up to at least Bt800K during the next two months.  

 

With so many different types of savings accts such as regular, fixed, hybrid, etc...it can be hard for an IO to know what type of acct you have and then be more understanding that it was a fixed acct you simply never touch, how it pays interest infrequently/maybe only once a year/etc.   So, since your passbook is going to reflect a couple transactions per year don't be surprised if the IO asks for annual statement.

 

If your bank is the type that will print a passbook "B/F" (Balance Forward) transaction each time you want to update the passbook even through you know the balance has not changed and even if a fixed acct, then it may be smart to do that once a month.   A B/F transaction simply reports your balance for that day.   Bangkok Bank accts are that way.  It should print a B/F transaction from a Passbook Update Machine...if not, the bank teller can force a B/F passbook transaction at the counter.   

 

This way you will show numerous and "frequent" updates of your passbook which should satisfy the IO that your passbook reflects all transactions....would show if you lived-up to the required income/balance requirements throughout the year as that is what they are looking for.

Bummer, but that's what I figured, thanks.

[Mike Teavee]

37 minutes ago, frantick said:

Bummer, but that's what I figured, thanks.

At CW I just needed a letter (100THB) from Bangkok Bank, presumably confirming I’d maintained the required 800/400K in the bank, no 12 month statement was required. 
 

I also needed my bank book (& photocopies) which was updated only 2 (3 if I include the one on the day) times since my last extension, I’m assuming BBL prints all individual transactions rather than consolidated ones as it took a few pages of the book to do the update.

I would say you don’t need anything apart from the book & a letter from your bank (& photocopies) but best to go in & ask your bank or Immigration.