Retirement visa denied -Bank balance below 800k within 3 months of receiving visa

[Onrai]

5 hours ago, OJAS said:

So precisely when did you obtain said checklist from Chiang Khan then? Before 1st March 2019 when the change was made, maybe??

I got the checklist Sept 2019. If I could figure out how to up load it on my iPad I would. Did I mention it is all written in Thai, not English?

[Onrai]

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Perhaps he hasn't read any visa threads before. It's not compulsory. Had I read the divorce threads I'd never have married a Thai woman, but I only read them after my divorce.

You have made my day. Absolutely brilliant response. I have been chuckling all day. 

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, Olmate said:

He didn’t,t ask you did he!

Irrelevant.

[Jingthing]

52 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Thanks, much appreciated..... supplying a printout of activity from the last extension is the extra requirement I am concerned of. I use Jomtiem and was hoping my regularly updated passbook(s) would verify things to their satisfaction. 

A report from a Jomtien applicant would be on point for your concern because as you know  different offices, different specific requirements. 

[jacko45k]

10 hours ago, Jingthing said:

A report from a Jomtien applicant would be on point for your concern because as you know  different offices, different specific requirements. 

I have asked a few friends but they all seem to go along there with the statements already, and more than I expected are using income now.  I have not seen any official list of requirements for a retirement extension based on bank deposit from Jomtiem that would reflect the new (March 2019) stipulations. They did of course have their own requirement of getting people to return 3 months after extension issue to verify the 800,000 was untouched.... (I did not do this)

The 12 month bank statement is often mentioned, which I believe has to be ordered from the bank....  I have a perhaps naive idea that my regularly updated bankbook should be good enough. 

Edited September 12, 2020 by jacko45k

[Peter Denis]

1 hour ago, jacko45k said:

...

The 12 month bank statement is often mentioned, which I believe has to be ordered from the bank....  I have a perhaps naive idea that my regularly updated bankbook should be good enough. 

The 12-month bank statement will contain ALL transactions made during the 12 month period. 

And indeed when you regularly update your bank-book, it will contain the exact same information as the 12-month bank statement. 

However, there are some banks that when you do not do such an update regularly (e.g. waiting several months before updating) that will 'consolidate' the transactions over the period from your last update (so that they do not have to print out all the transactions in your passbook).  But as a result of that paper-saving action by the Banks that do this consolidation print, Immigrtion will not be able to check that you were in compliance during the full-period and that you not went below the 800K/400K tresshold and topped up later again.

By asking for the 12-month bank statement they will now be able to check that. 

As usual, that new rule created to check the odd exception, has started to get a life of its own and even if you regularly update your passbook or when you only make 2-3 transactions per year, some Immigration Officers that do not understand the background of that 12-month bank statement will now insist on it.  

[poohy]

feel sorry for Op not every Immigration follows this procedure

 

Anyway use an agent to sort it out its annoying but probably the only way and immigration know Oh and they much prefer agents as they cut a cut in their sweaty mits!

I personally use one their renews are not subject to petty checks such as this

[Andrew Dwyer]

17 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

The 12-month bank statement will contain ALL transactions made during the 12 month period. 

And indeed when you regularly update your bank-book, it will contain the exact same information as the 12-month bank statement. 

However, there are some banks that when you do not do such an update regularly (e.g. waiting several months before updating) that will 'consolidate' the transactions over the period from your last update (so that they do not have to print out all the transactions in your passbook).  But as a result of that paper-saving action by the Banks that do this consolidation print, Immigrtion will not be able to check that you were in compliance during the full-period and that you not went below the 800K/400K tresshold and topped up later again.

By asking for the 12-month bank statement they will now be able to check that. 

As usual, that new rule created to check the odd exception, has started to get a life of its own and even if you regularly update your passbook or when you only make 2-3 transactions per year, some Immigration Officers that do not understand the background of that 12-month bank statement will now insist on it.  

Indeed, I did my retirement extension 2 days ago and that was the case, a 12 month statement was requested as well as passbook.

Even though the 12 month statement showed every transaction it didn’t stop them photocopying every page of my passbook and attaching it to the pile of papers sent around the IO.

In total 5 people had a good rummage through my passbook and even with their “ poker faces “ I could still sense their disappointment in not finding any infractions !!

( Ayutthaya IO )

[AussieBob18]

Reading all the responses I am still at a loss to understand why Thailand had many 'retired' Expats leave the country.  I can still remember doing the numbers way back in time (2010), and Thailand was cheaper and easier and simpler, compared to all the other 'preferred' SEAsia destinations for people looking to live overseas. Now only Singapore costs more, and none of them are harder or more incovenient for the Expat than Thailand. What happened??   

 

[Mike Teavee]

1 hour ago, AussieBob18 said:

Reading all the responses I am still at a loss to understand why Thailand had many 'retired' Expats leave the country.  I can still remember doing the numbers way back in time (2010), and Thailand was cheaper and easier and simpler, compared to all the other 'preferred' SEAsia destinations for people looking to live overseas. Now only Singapore costs more, and none of them are harder or more incovenient for the Expat than Thailand. What happened??   

 

Singapore is certainly easier to live in when you're working there & arguably cheaper as higher salaries/lower taxes more than make up for the higher living costs but there is no option for retirees there unless you can come up with s$2.5Million to invest. 

 

Philippines SRRV is straightforward enough ($10,000 deposit) & available to everybody over 35 (IIRC you need $20,000 if you're under 50). 

 

TBH I don't find it hard living in Thailand, I just put the 800K into an account & mentally wrote it off until I'm ready to leave.

[crazykopite]

SCB took 200 baht out of my account for commission on my debit card which left me 126.78 baht below the 800,000 the IO turned my application down even though I had realised the mistake and the shortfall was made up within 48 hours . Thankfully I have two bank accounts so it was a mad dash to the bank to get my other book updated and another 200 baht letter all that messing about due to a shortfall of less than 130 baht .the moral of the story is have 802,000 in the bank just in case .

[sirocco]

true, post 11 JINGTHING, and not everyone goes to forums.
On the other hand, making the immigration services responsible is really too easy.
As a foreigner, tourist or expatriate, one should inquire at our embassy or that of Thailand.
Getting up to speed, once or twice a month, only takes five minutes with just one click.
Perhaps we should assume and not wait for the laws, the counter-laws, to be presented to you on a silver plate.

[ajarnmarc]

20 hours ago, Onrai said:

As I said-We (thai girlfriend and me) spent a lot of time with the immigration officer, taking notes and making sure we understood the renewal guidelines. Unfortunately, they didn’t include the 3 months after in their written guidelines. As for not knowing because it was posted so many times thai visa forum-I generally get some snarky, unhelpful comment, like your comment, which makes me want to steer clear of asking any questions or reading tv.

I completely agree with you. This community could be so much better if people would remember in the end we are all in this together, even if it isn't affecting you at this time, I might come around to you later, at which time you will want to have some place to look to that might offer a solution to a negative situation which you may find yourself in. When you posted this, you asked if anyone knew any other options or solutions basically. Not seeking peoples negative, unproductive feedback. Not sure why they bother to post if they clearly have no solution to the matter at hand...? I read the posting myself looking for agent recommendations, in the event I was to get tripped up sometime in the future, or perhaps any other remedy to such point. I not see anyone recommending any agents, so it is discouraging to see posts which are truly slamming down the matter before you and I'm sure others who may find themselves in a similar situation at some point during their stay.

[oobar]

20 hours ago, Onrai said:

As for not knowing because it was posted so many times thai visa forum-I generally get some snarky, unhelpful comment, like your comment, which makes me want to steer clear of asking any questions or reading tv.

Amen.

[oobar]

17 minutes ago, ajarnmarc said:

I completely agree with you. This community could be so much better if people would remember in the end we are all in this together, even if it isn't affecting you at this time, I might come around to you later, at which time you will want to have some place to look to that might offer a solution to a negative situation which you may find yourself in. When you posted this, you asked if anyone knew any other options or solutions basically. Not seeking peoples negative, unproductive feedback. Not sure why they bother to post if they clearly have no solution to the matter at hand...? I read the posting myself looking for agent recommendations, in the event I was to get tripped up sometime in the future, or perhaps any other remedy to such point. I not see anyone recommending any agents, so it is discouraging to see posts which are truly slamming down the matter before you and I'm sure others who may find themselves in a similar situation at some point during their stay.

Amen.  Amen.

[ajarnmarc]

3 hours ago, Andrew Dwyer said:

Indeed, I did my retirement extension 2 days ago and that was the case, a 12 month statement was requested as well as passbook.

Even though the 12 month statement showed every transaction it didn’t stop them photocopying every page of my passbook and attaching it to the pile of papers sent around the IO.

In total 5 people had a good rummage through my passbook and even with their “ poker faces “ I could still sense their disappointment in not finding any infractions !!

( Ayutthaya IO )

After submitting my annual extension and having to have my landlord come to the office to verify I stayed @ his villa and that he did indeed register my stay online. My landlord spoke with me yesterday to see if all went well with receiving the extension. I informed him that I was given until the 4th of September for the approval process, and yet that date has come and gone while Immigration states simply, not come back yet! Provided me with a number which I must call each day, and provide them with a code they have hand written on the temporary stamp. When I ask them about my expired date as of the 4th, they simply reply, the approval hasn't come in yet; call back in a tomorrow. My landlord informed me that when he came into the office to verify my living on his property, that they made him feel like he had done something wrong, or that I had done something wrong, when they couldn't find anything he had done wrong. They made him go back to his home take a screen shot of the online registration he had done, and copy that onto an A4 vertically and submit that document, which he did. The the nice lady still seemed none convinced, and asked for his username and password so she could then look it up on her computer to personally verify it all for herself. My landlord stated that he didn't know why Immigration could not work more closely with Foreigners and property owners, as it's in their best interest to present the best image possible on behalf of Thailand so the expats staying here would not only want to stay longer, but would or might also recommend the country to their family, friends in their home country. I was amazed he has such insight, when compared to most of the negative posts I view on this site, who simply fail to see how the system appears to be designed, and though there's nothing we personally can do about it or change it, we don't need to go on the attack against each other as some try to make themselves feel more powerful or self indulged by standing up for the mistreatment which comes from a majority of the immigration officers around the country.

[TGIR]

On 9/12/2020 at 12:31 PM, Jingthing said:

Oh geez.

He just didn't know.

It can happen. 

I know. 

You know.

Not everyone knows. 

Its really too bad immigration can't make humanitarian exceptions and have the power to say, you messed up, you should have known, so we'll let this go the one time but don't ever do it again.

I see zero social value in the way this is being enforced but hopefully some people that didn't know before will know now. 

 

When I got my last extension I switched to the 800K method.  When the Officer stamped my renewal he looked directly at me and said: you have to have at least 400K of this in four months.  Come back to this office with proof you still have the money in the bank.  I'm willing to bet they have given these instructions to everyone.......somehow this guy hasn't been paying attention to the discussion of this process all these months?   He doesn't know he has to keep it in the bank? 

 

I feel sorry for him that he is apparently not too bright, and I apologize for saying that, but bringing this to the forum he just doubled down on being dumber than a rock.  I have done similar things in my life but have had the good fortune not to advertise them.

 

Pay Attention Guys.........the folks at Immigration are not your friends.

 

 

 

 

[Jenkins9039]

Just get a letter from your embassy and re-seed the funds in the mean time, surely you can do that ? 

 

[champers]

19 hours ago, DBath said:

Even if OP goes thru an agent now and pays 25,000, I doubt they will have time to complete the transaction. My wife and I have in process a retirement visa from Sep 4 and while I received back my passport last week, she still has not. I have friends who’ve gone thru the process with an agent who got their passports back in 2+ weeks - sadly this has not been my experience. While I’m sure the OP is hopeful and many here are offering their less than stellar advice, I think it will be impossible for him/her to complete the transaction before 9/26. 

He can pay a premium for fast tracking, no doubt.

[Jaxxper]

As much as I hate to say it, you probably need to engage an agent, and hope that the visa they obtain for you is legit. The money in the bank rule is very clear, and has been well publicized.

[JackThompson]

 

28 minutes ago, TGIR said:

When I got my last extension I switched to the 800K method.  When the Officer stamped my renewal he looked directly at me and said: you have to have at least 400K of this in four months.  Come back to this office with proof you still have the money in the bank.  I'm willing to bet they have given these instructions to everyone......

I hope he also mentioned that you must have no less than 800K, for the next 3 months?

Any and all changes in policy should only apply to new applicants - with at least a 1-year notice before such changes would come into effect for new applicants, thus not affecting those already well into planning their retirement. 

And, of course, new changes should never be forced on those already "retired" in Thailand, under a previously agreed set of terms.
 

Quote

...

Pay Attention Guys.........the folks at Immigration are not your friends.

Got that right.

 

1 hour ago, ajarnmarc said:

My landlord informed me that when he came into the office to verify my living on his property, that they made him feel like he had done something wrong, or that I had done something wrong, when they couldn't find anything he had done wrong.

Ditto for Thai spouses - often treated like "collaborators with the enemy."

[zzzzz]

FACT:
extensions issued via Grace are legit,

got one in June, 14,000 1 week service

just did my 90 day report online and it went thru in less than 5 minutes... approved.

if the extensions was not legit, no way i would have been able to do the 90 day online

 

Agents fill a void cause immigration likes to play games with farangs.

[stouricks]

3 minutes ago, zzzzz said:

FACT:
extensions issued via Grace are legit,

got one in June, 14,000 1 week service

just did my 90 day report online and it went thru in less than 5 minutes... approved.

if the extensions was not legit, no way i would have been able to do the 90 day online

 

Agents fill a void cause immigration likes to play games with farangs.

Does 'Grace' issue the 'legit' extension? I thought she just 'sorted it out' with the I O. So who is playing games with who?

Edited September 13, 2020 by stouricks

[AussieBob18]

3 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

Singapore is certainly easier to live in when you're working there & arguably cheaper as higher salaries/lower taxes more than make up for the higher living costs but there is no option for retirees there unless you can come up with s$2.5Million to invest. 

Philippines SRRV is straightforward enough ($10,000 deposit) & available to everybody over 35 (IIRC you need $20,000 if you're under 50). 

TBH I don't find it hard living in Thailand, I just put the 800K into an account & mentally wrote it off until I'm ready to leave.

I hear you, but read the next post to yours #71 (and many others).

Thailand keeps changing the rules and keeps making it harder and harder - why??

I klnow they said 'good guys in - bad guys out' - but they have driven out many good guys too - and where are the bonuses for the good guys?

[DBath]

41 minutes ago, champers said:

He can pay a premium for fast tracking, no doubt.

No doubt, everything has it’s price, but probably won’t end up being the 25k baht quoted by some. 

[SunsetT]

On 9/12/2020 at 6:09 AM, stouricks said:

Why did you not know BEFORE the fact? It has been said so many times here on TV about 2 months before and three months after, down to 400k for 7 months then back to 800. Sorry, your own fault.

...No need to rub it in!

[zzzzz]

53 minutes ago, stouricks said:

Does 'Grace' issue the 'legit' extension? I thought she just 'sorted it out' with the I O. So who is playing games with who?

Grace "assists" with getting your extension.  OK NOW?

[Suradit69]

On 9/12/2020 at 12:31 PM, Jingthing said:

 

Its really too bad immigration can't make humanitarian exceptions and have the power to say, you messed up, you

When they stick to the rules, people want them to make exceptions ( for humanitarian reasons... ha, ha).

 

if they bend the rules one way or another, people moan about inconsistent application of the rules.

 

its really too bad farang can’t be bothered to learn the basic rules that apply to their continued legal presence in the country. Accept some responsibility. 

Edited September 13, 2020 by Suradit69

[Bender Rodriguez]

On 9/12/2020 at 12:09 PM, stouricks said:

Why did you not know BEFORE the fact? It has been said so many times here on TV about 2 months before and three months after, down to 400k for 7 months then back to 800. Sorry, your own fault.

no need to blame the guy

 

farangs do not need to be a member of TV when living in thailand

 

immigration should have made him sign a paper that 800k should remain for 3 months

[hotchilli]

On 9/12/2020 at 12:31 PM, Jingthing said:

Oh geez.

He just didn't know.

It can happen. 

I know. 

You know.

Not everyone knows. 

It's his business to know, it's his visa... he stuffed up.

Immigration are not going to allow this rule to be broken otherwise there would be an avalanche of why I didn't have the correct funds excuses.

This one is clear...