Trump and Biden clash over Western wildfires as blazes become election issue

[Dumbastheycome]

21 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

trump’s statements  just get dumber and dumber. 
 

US West Coast fires: Trump fans flames of climate row in California https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-54144651

It has a similar sound to " The Chinese  virus will just go away, you'll see. "

Is the  stable  genius now suggesting hell will freeze over but scientists  don't know that ?

[simple1]

2 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

 

Trump doesn't personally rake the forests or oversee them. Want somebody to blame let's go with Gavin. Ask him why in drought conditions why swimming pools are allowed. Ask him if the Colorado river dries up in the desert. Ask him why he allows agriculture to destroy the environment. Ask him why he think expensive gasoline cancels this all out. 

 

95% of California's land area should be a national park. You think Trump could do that?

deflection - federally owned forest areas is in the majority - trump is the 'owner' of Fed Govt action or lack of.

[Emdog]

1 hour ago, Scott said:

States have legal authority to manage federal lands within their borders to the extent Congress has given them such authority.

Oregon is 53% owned by Federal government, Washington 29% and California 46%

States having legal authority given by Congress: okay, if you say so. Do they also provide enough funds to manage the lands?

I'm an Oregonian and have traveled through and camped in many of the sites now gone. They won't be back in my lifetime, that's for darn sure. Plenty of blame to share all around.

[Scott]

2 minutes ago, Emdog said:

Oregon is 53% owned by Federal government, Washington 29% and California 46%

States having legal authority given by Congress: okay, if you say so. Do they also provide enough funds to manage the lands?

I'm an Oregonian and have traveled through and camped in many of the sites now gone. They won't be back in my lifetime, that's for darn sure. Plenty of blame to share all around.

States have the legal authority to the extent given by Congress.   I don't know the full extent given to states, but I am sure someone could find out.   I suspect it varies from place to place.   As for funding, again, that would vary, I suspect.  

 

[wwest5829]

6 hours ago, RoadWarrior371 said:

Of course it's Trumps fault.  Look at the liberal desperation just on this board, and multiply that nation-wide.  We are witnessing a liberal melt-down. ????

We will see ... might be witnessing a large number of American citizens who have had their fill of the current occupier of the White House.

[wwest5829]

5 hours ago, Mama Noodle said:

It’s disturbing to me that the people living in the northwest and western USA continue to vote for politicians who let their states burn every year from wildfires even after its documented that they’ve drastically reduced their forest management practices. They’ll sit around blaming climate change while doing nothing substantial to stop the problem. 

Never mind that these are largely Federal Lands under the direction of the Federal Government ...

[Mavideol]

4 hours ago, simple1 said:

The majority of forested land is owned by Federal government, what has the trump administration done to reduce risk of fires and increase resources for firefighting?

he will say..... "' it's  not my responsibility, Democrats governors fault, they should clean our (federal own) land...""

[Mavideol]

3 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

They wouldn't accept Trump's solution. The area should have been selectively logged providing billions of dollars and jobs. People in Cali are tree huggers and would say Trump raped the forests. The result is now nothing is left. Billions of trees have died and there is no value.

 

Wait until it begins to rain and the mud slides come.

that's a well known fact and Malibu can vouch for it, unfortunately the majority of land owners don't see far from the tip of their noses and accidents do happen due to their actions or lack off

[simple1]

1 hour ago, Smigel said:

Try reading the piece again, particularly the bit where Gavin Newsom admits that state hadn't done enough with forest management. 

If you fail to clear deadwood and allow it to lie on forest floors as fuel, what do you think the outcome might be, when some lunatic arsonist comes along.? 

<SNIP>

 

 

Insult removed.

 

In California the State only owns 3% of forest land.

 

https://ucanr.edu/sites/forestry/California_forests/

 

For those interested, US 'wildfire' statistics and Fed assistance...

 

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/IF10244.pdf

 

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/homesec/IF10732.pdf

 

https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IN/IN11487

Edited September 15, 2020 by simple1

[ballpoint]

Federal forests burning due to bad environmental policies on Trump's watch.

Race protests, lawlessness and lootings due to divisiveness, minority scapegoating and the empowerment of the armed far right on Trump's watch.

Approaching 200,000 Covid-19 deaths due to lying and inaction on Trump's watch.

Hostile foreign powers praised and feted on Trump's watch.

US military demoralised, derided and targeted for bounty payments on Trump's watch.

 

But, but, but, The Democrats!

 

[Jingthing]

6 hours ago, meechai said:

555

If you vote for Trump "you ain't black" & you are a "climate arsonist"

Keep them coming Joe ....your a laugh a minute ????????

Thats President Biden to you  sooner than you think. You might be laughing but the majority of Americans will be very relieved to be rid of a toxic corrupt hate mongering anti science demagogue. 

[Smigel]

22 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Thats President Biden to you  sooner than you think. You might be laughing but the majority of Americans will be very relieved to be rid of a toxic corrupt hate mongering anti science demagogue. 

Getting a bit ahead of yourself there aren't you. President Biden.!!! The bumbling old fool can't even appear on a late night chat show without having a monitor script his answers, there's no enthusiasm for your moderate stooge in the US. He can only dream about attracting the crowds Trump gets at his rallies. 

But you keep on fantasising about your Biden presidency, it'll make it all the sweeter when Trump wins again. 

[SmileyCat]

this is just like Alien vs Predator, whoever wins we lose

[RANGER55]

On 9/15/2020 at 11:01 AM, Eric Loh said:

Local enforcement agencies have categorically said that there are no truth in the arson rumor. But by all means to put your trust and belief in political provocateurs; your comfort corner. 

Here is a link to four people that’s already been arrested and more to come. I person was arrest for starting a fire, the DA let him out and he was arrested again for the same thing. This link is from the UK so you can’t say it’s made up.

 

https://www.the-sun.com/news/1461447/four-arrested-intentionally-starting-blazes-wildfires/

 

Yes, a large part of the land is federal. The problem is the forest management can’t do anything with it. If they even try to build a road through parts, they get sued by the Sierra Club a far-left radical group that is one of largest on the west coast and the US. They just run to the nearest liberal federal judge and he sides with them. Its then tied up in court for years. The west coast can’t do any water management or anything without the Sierra Club taking them to court.

 

 

The forest on the west coast has under brush and dead trees has high as 15 feet in large areas due to no control burns for years or forest management.

I have seen proper land management on federal land in North West Florida. They do control burns every two to three years on sections of land. They also do controlled logging. It’s a federal military reservation so the Sierra has a harder time suing them, less liberal judges in that court district also. . Works great for the land and wild life population.

Edited September 16, 2020 by onthedarkside
link corrected to original source

[Eric Loh]

3 minutes ago, RANGER55 said:

Here is a link to four people that’s already been arrested and more to come. I person was arrest for starting a fire, the DA let him out and he was arrested again for the same thing. This link is from the UK so you can’t say it’s made up.

I think this statement by the FBI in the BBC news summed up the situation perfectly. Those who desire to be opportunists in creating more racial division should be taken to task. 
 

The FBI has released a statement addressing social media conspiracies that “extremists” were starting the fires after being inundated with claims.
With our state and local partners, the FBI has investigated several such reports and found them to be untrue," the agency said in a statement.

[RANGER55]

25 minutes ago, Smigel said:

Getting a bit ahead of yourself there aren't you. President Biden.!!! The bumbling old fool can't even appear on a late night chat show without having a monitor script his answers, there's no enthusiasm for your moderate stooge in the US. He can only dream about attracting the crowds Trump gets at his rallies. 

But you keep on fantasising about your Biden presidency, it'll make it all the sweeter when Trump wins again. 

Yes, its very fun how everything is scripted with selected people with written question and he always uses a teleprompter. He did get busted the other day. One lady started to ask her question then says. I know I am supposed to ask the question I was gave but I have another I would like to ask. Old Joe looked like a deer caught in the headlights!

[RANGER55]

6 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

I think this statement by the FBI in the BBC news summed up the situation perfectly. Those who desire to be opportunists in creating more racial division should be taken to task. 
 

The FBI has released a statement addressing social media conspiracies that “extremists” were starting the fires after being inundated with claims.
With our state and local partners, the FBI has investigated several such reports and found them to be untrue," the agency said in a statement.

I read it. You are the one that said no one had been arrested. That summed up your situation pretty well. More arrest to come. Did you skip all the way to the bottom of the article and miss 4 ARRESTED?

Edited September 15, 2020 by RANGER55

[RANGER55]

3 hours ago, wwest5829 said:

We will see ... might be witnessing a large number of American citizens who have had their fill of the current occupier of the White House.

Well, one thing for sure. A whole lot of people have had their fill of California and NY. Read an article last week that said that one of the major problems was you can't find enough U-Haul trucks to move. They are all left in Texas and other states east. No ones stupid enough to rent one and come back to California. Except maybe illegals crossing form Mexico and your super rich geeks in Silicon Valley that live in those gated communities with private security.

Edited September 15, 2020 by RANGER55

[wwest5829]

18 minutes ago, RANGER55 said:

Well, one thing for sure. A whole lot of people have had their fill of California and NY. Read an article last week that said that one of the major problems was you can't find enough U-Haul trucks to move. They are all left in Texas and other states east. No ones stupid enough to rent one and come back to California. Except maybe illegals crossing form Mexico and your super rich geeks in Silicon Valley that live in those gated communities with private security.

The trend, encouraged by Covid is for working at a distance. It is a toss up. Having been raised in the Philly metropolitan area, I decided to stay in Western Kentucky after college graduation. Nice area in which to live, not so much for income. So, happy in retirement but in a lower cost country as I cam live better than in my home country on $2400.00 a month.

[Smigel]

1 hour ago, RANGER55 said:

Well, one thing for sure. A whole lot of people have had their fill of California and NY. Read an article last week that said that one of the major problems was you can't find enough U-Haul trucks to move. They are all left in Texas and other states east. No ones stupid enough to rent one and come back to California. Except maybe illegals crossing form Mexico and your super rich geeks in Silicon Valley that live in those gated communities with private security.

Who can blame them, cheaper property, better standard of living with up to 60% lower cost of living. 

The icing on the cake being escaping from lib policies that ruin life for many. 

As I understand it though many texans are none too happy about it, particularly if they bring their Liberal views with them. 

[jcsmith]

11 hours ago, twocatsmac said:

Almost a new low for Biden calling Trump a climate arsonist but we all know the depths he can sink to.

What would you call a climate denier who recently said that dry branches on the ground just explode after 18 months, and then shortly thereafter downplayed the scientific view on climate change. Someone who backed out of the Paris Accord inexplicably. Whose bright idea is to bring back coal and deregulate policies aimed to slow climate change (and protect our health). 

It's amazing that this is what you can grab at while ignoring Trump's outlandish claims at rallies each night. 

[RANGER55]

25 minutes ago, jcsmith said:

It's amazing that this is what you can grab at while ignoring Trump's outlandish claims at rallies each night. 

Those were not political rallies. They were peaceful protest. As we all know the virus knows the difference. It doesn’t infect protesters right!

Edited September 15, 2020 by RANGER55

[darksidedog]

An off topic post and replies have been removed, though many more could have been removed also

There is to much personal bickering going on here and it will stop now please.

Focus on the topic at hand and forego the personal comments about each others intelligence.

Warnings will follow for the next one to cross the line.

[blastfromthepast]

13 hours ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

Facts first:

 

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R44267.pdf

Nothing at all in that paper about Congress having delegated authority to states to fight fires on Federal land.

[earlinclaifornia]

13 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

Much of the land is state forest and has to be managed in conjunction. If you do not have access through state land you can not do anything. CA is notorious for not allowing access. These are remote valleys.

 

I don't understand your point unless you are suggesting more aggressive logging. Trump would be happy to oblige you.

 

Edited September 15, 2020 by earlinclaifornia

[Credo]

20 hours ago, Cryingdick said:

Maybe you don't remember Yellowstone, or th BWCA. This happens somewhere every year.It begins with a high wind. I know in Michigan, Minnesota, and all the way up to Maine, that this can happen anywhere on any given year.

 

We tend to manage our land a little better.

I remember Yellowstone well.  I lived near there.  I visited after the fires and I visited 3 times in the past 3 years.   Those fires were allowed to burn themselves out and as awful as they were, they did burn themselves out.   Not happening in CA.   

But you miss the point.   They can happen, but they are happening more frequently and more severely with much greater damage despite the enormous amount of resources to stop them.  Property damage is occurring in places where it has never occurred.   

 

It's a later start to the rainy season, a shorter, but heavy rainier season and longer drier and hotter season.   Let's look at Arizona.   They had the hottest July on record, but it was beaten by August, which was hotter than July and now holds the new record....that's two all time records in 60 days.   It's also been the driest monsoon season every recorded.   CA also had record heat.   

We now have 18 named storms in the Atlantic, again a new record.   Now, do you want some facts from other countries or perhaps you could take a look at what's happening to the climate in the Arctic?   Oh, and there are a couple of major ice shelves in grave danger of breaking away in the Antarctic.   

The cause is Climate Change.   Oh, and I am not afraid to tell the truth because I know you won't panic.   

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2020/09/14/glaciers-breaking-antarctica-pine-island-thwaites/?fbclid=IwAR0OHUjAgwvb7tzvOEqqjN45NoQtP339X5J2XEwwWFu0jkV1Y9N6S1Opgv4

 

[Cryingdick]

1 hour ago, Credo said:

I remember Yellowstone well.  I lived near there.  I visited after the fires and I visited 3 times in the past 3 years.   Those fires were allowed to burn themselves out and as awful as they were, they did burn themselves out.   Not happening in CA.   

But you miss the point.   They can happen, but they are happening more frequently and more severely with much greater damage despite the enormous amount of resources to stop them.  Property damage is occurring in places where it has never occurred.   

 

It's a later start to the rainy season, a shorter, but heavy rainier season and longer drier and hotter season.   Let's look at Arizona.   They had the hottest July on record, but it was beaten by August, which was hotter than July and now holds the new record....that's two all time records in 60 days.   It's also been the driest monsoon season every recorded.   CA also had record heat.   

We now have 18 named storms in the Atlantic, again a new record.   Now, do you want some facts from other countries or perhaps you could take a look at what's happening to the climate in the Arctic?   Oh, and there are a couple of major ice shelves in grave danger of breaking away in the Antarctic.   

The cause is Climate Change.   Oh, and I am not afraid to tell the truth because I know you won't panic.   

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2020/09/14/glaciers-breaking-antarctica-pine-island-thwaites/?fbclid=IwAR0OHUjAgwvb7tzvOEqqjN45NoQtP339X5J2XEwwWFu0jkV1Y9N6S1Opgv4

 

 

Yellowstone is as beautiful as ever today and the fires didn't hurt a thing. That's the point. Californians themselves are the people raping the environment. It isn't a bunch of outsiders. They need to make moratoriums on building in around 80% of the state and then the fires aren't a problem. You can't fight it. 

 

California cries about climate change but likely contribute more to it than any place in the USA. 

Edited September 16, 2020 by Cryingdick

[thaibeachlovers]

On 9/15/2020 at 9:08 AM, webfact said:

Calling Trump a "climate arsonist," Biden said: "If we have four more years of Trump's climate denial, how many suburbs will be burned by wildfires? How many suburban neighborhoods will have been flooded out?"

Is Biden actually claiming that he could change the climate if he took over? LOL.

 

The climate isn't going to change any time soon so forest management to remove fuel for fires is about the only plan in town, IMO.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Credo said:

I remember Yellowstone well.  I lived near there.  I visited after the fires and I visited 3 times in the past 3 years.   Those fires were allowed to burn themselves out and as awful as they were, they did burn themselves out.   Not happening in CA.   

But you miss the point.   They can happen, but they are happening more frequently and more severely with much greater damage despite the enormous amount of resources to stop them.  Property damage is occurring in places where it has never occurred.   

 

It's a later start to the rainy season, a shorter, but heavy rainier season and longer drier and hotter season.   Let's look at Arizona.   They had the hottest July on record, but it was beaten by August, which was hotter than July and now holds the new record....that's two all time records in 60 days.   It's also been the driest monsoon season every recorded.   CA also had record heat.   

We now have 18 named storms in the Atlantic, again a new record.   Now, do you want some facts from other countries or perhaps you could take a look at what's happening to the climate in the Arctic?   Oh, and there are a couple of major ice shelves in grave danger of breaking away in the Antarctic.   

The cause is Climate Change.   Oh, and I am not afraid to tell the truth because I know you won't panic.   

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2020/09/14/glaciers-breaking-antarctica-pine-island-thwaites/?fbclid=IwAR0OHUjAgwvb7tzvOEqqjN45NoQtP339X5J2XEwwWFu0jkV1Y9N6S1Opgv4

 

Yes, the climate is changing, but nothing is going to alter that. Even if it is man made ( and no evidence that man is the sole or even the main agent of climate change, IMO ) it's not going to be reversed as long as the world's population keeps increasing and China, India etc continue to pollute without constraint.

 

People can keep on telling us the sky is falling or they can actually do something, like opening many more nuclear power plants to replace fossil fuel power stations, stop mass tourism flights, ban cars in cities, provide subsidised public transport, convert cars to run on hydrogen, stop destroying rain forests, and stop forest fires by good management removing fuel source. Many many more things that can be done if one thinks about it.

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, Emdog said:

Oregon is 53% owned by Federal government, Washington 29% and California 46%

States having legal authority given by Congress: okay, if you say so. Do they also provide enough funds to manage the lands?

I'm an Oregonian and have traveled through and camped in many of the sites now gone. They won't be back in my lifetime, that's for darn sure. Plenty of blame to share all around.

No doubt simple1 could inform us as to whether the Australian areas burnt have or are recovering, but IMO forests in nature burn and regenerate in not too long a time scale.

 

From google

During wildfires, the nutrients from dead trees are returned to the soil. The forest floor is exposed to more sunlight, allowing seedlings released by the fire to sprout and grow.

 

Humans have intervened in nature to the detriment of us all. Fire in forests is a natural occurrence. If man tries to fight nature, man is going to lose every time. We need to learn to live with nature, not against it.