Little hope for reform of Thailand’s police – Senator Kamnoon

[webfact]

Little hope for reform of Thailand’s police – Senator Kamnoon

 

Photo from Kamnoon Sidhisamarn Facebook

 

Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha has been blamed for a lack of progress in attempts to effect major reform of the Royal Thai Police.

 

In his Facebook post today, Senator Kamnoon Sidhisamarn said that the much-needed reforms have not progressed since the Prime Minister, in his capacity as leader of the junta which took power in a coup d’état, issued an order on July 25th, 2018, regarding guidelines for police reshuffles which put emphasis on seniority, and another, dated November 26th of the same year, about measures supporting continuation of a national administration.

 

Both orders, said Kamnoon, have rendered the third paragraph of Section 260 of the current Constitution meaningless in practice, which means that seniority and capability are not the criteria used to determine which police officers are promoted or transferred.

 

Full story: https://www.thaipbsworld.com/little-hope-for-reform-of-thailands-police-senator-kamnoon/

 

-- © Copyright Thai PBS 2020-09-22

 

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[rkidlad]

Just now, webfact said:

Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha has been blamed for a lack of progress in attempts to effect major reform of the Royal Thai Police

Well, he promised to reform the police and he didn't even make an attempt. He had years of unaccountable power and he literally did nothing. So, yes, he's completely to blame. 

[Thaiwrath]

4 minutes ago, webfact said:

Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha has been blamed for a lack of progress in attempts to effect major reform of the Royal Thai Police.

At last, he has got the recognition he deserves !

[colinneil]

 

 

 

Just now, webfact said:

Prime Minister Prayut Chan-o-cha has been blamed for a lack of progress in attempts to effect major reform of the Royal Thai Police.

 

Man is a total waste of space, he has promised lots since he led the coup.

Promised a lot, delivered absolutely nothing useful.

Yes he made a lot of noise about reforming the R.T.P., yet do the same as he usually does.... All talk- no action.

???? Already posted the sad emoji Steven, no need for you to bother.????

[spidermike007]

The police here own franchises. They are franchisees. They are not law enforcement officials. They rarely engage in law enforcement, traffic safety, or public safety. They are not here for the benefit of the people, and they are not here to keep us safe. They are here to collect. That is all they do. If you need to give them an official title, it would be that of a revenue collection agent. Only it is their own account, that they represent.

Always remember one thing. The police here are not engaged in law enforcement. They are revenue collection agents, and they each have their own franchise. Nobody will ever touch them. They are protected at the highest levels. They do as they please, and Thailand remains a relatively lawless state. The extraordinary aspect of all of this, is how much of a tribute this is, to the Thai people. Despite the lack of law and order, and the extraordinary lack of a deterrent, Thailand remains a relatively safe place to live, and to travel, and crime is far lower than it would be in almost any other country, without law and order. I consider this to be a great example of how good most Thai people really are, and how honorable they are, as a people. I never feel threatened here. I can walk the streets of most cities late at night, and never feel afraid of my security, like in many other nations. The most dangerous place in this country is on the roads.

I know some will take exception to my summary. We have all encountered punks here, and business people who have no vision, and do silly things. But, I believe those are people who are the exception to this rule. Most are quite extraordinary, and in a large sense, are self policed.

And that experience you had is very, very common. Many years ago, my sister in law, was involved with a rather dodgy Brit, while living on Samui. When she finally ditched him, he was livid, and just could not handle it. He ended up coming one night, at 3:30am, and burning down her bungalow, which was made of wood and thatch. It went up like a bomb. Fortunately, neither she, nor her roommate were there at the time, or they would have either died, or ended up with major 3rd degree burns all over their bodies, which I believe was his intention. In most countries, this would be treated as attempted murder, correct? The police were able to find a video of him racing away from the scene, at around 3:35am, as there was a CCTV camera in front of the police station, only a few hundred meters away from her bungalow. They took him in, and told him he would have to leave Thailand, and could never return. Not sure what exchanged hands, for him to not have been arrested. He was also told he would have to pay my sister in law 120,000 baht for the destruction of her gold, cash, and possessions. Same for her friend. He did pay. We know that for a fact, as we were friendly with a couple of his friends. When she went to the police station to collect, she was told that he never paid, and he was already back in Thailand. But, that they had advocated for her, and made sure he could never come back to Thailand! When she pushed, and told them that she knew for a fact that he had paid them, she was told that her life was now in danger, and that she needed to back down, and go away, or her safety could not be guaranteed.

The real problem is, you cannot report these guys. Not to the higher ups, not to the provincial authorities, and certainly not to the army. They are all corrupt beyond imagination. And the level of corruption simply escalates, the further up the food chain you go. They are not expected to be honest, and they are not expected to engage in law enforcement, traffic or public safety, on any level. It is an irrevocably broken and dysfunctional system. Anything hyperbole to the contrary, is just a smoke screen, intended to deceive the naive amongst us. So typical of these collection agents, who have the audacity to pose as cops. They are anything but. Many are operating their own little mafia gangs. But law enforcement? Never.

 

 

[quake]

Get rid of all the police and start a fresh. 

 

[steven100]

This guys just sore because he's a nobody. I wouldn't want to be in his shoes from now on.

He'll be flipping hamburgers next week ....  lol

[ChipButty]

7 minutes ago, colinneil said:

 

 

 

Man is a total waste of space, he has promised lots since he led the coup.

Promised a lot, delivered absolutely nothing useful.

Yes he made a lot of noise about reforming the R.T.P., yet do the same as he usually does.... All talk- no action.

???? Already posted the sad emoji Steven, no need for you to bother.????

He did, he cleared all the chairs and umbrellas of the beach

[mark131v]

Just now, steven100 said:

This guys just sore because he's a nobody. I wouldn't want to be in his shoes from now on.

He'll be flipping hamburgers next week ....  lol

Yes your probably right

 

Has been seen very many times that the junta will not accept any form of dissent from within or without

 

The net result of that is constructive criticism that could improve things is ignored so nothing ever changes

 

That's what happens when you have uneducated, incompetent, morally corrupt buffoons like general Pinocchio and his minions and backers in charge

 

Thailand is doomed to keep repeating the mistakes of the past until they grow a pair and Steven's hero is dangling on a rope or incarcerated for life....  

[darksidedog]

20 minutes ago, webfact said:

which means that seniority and capability are not the criteria used to determine which police officers are promoted or transferred.

Obviously not and pretty much everyone else already knows that top positions are bought and paid for. The police force are systematically corrupt, which explains why none of the other corruption stops either. Investigations can be bought as can verdicts, and the whole rat race runs in a circle. He is right that there is little chance it will change though.

[mark131v]

'The senator said that the Prime Minister could have overruled the two orders by submitting the police reform draft bill to Parliament, which was written by Meechai Ruchupan, the Government’s legal expert

 

Neither the Government or the Prime Minister did so, but chose to send the police reform draft, which was heavily amended by the Royal Police Office, directly to the Cabinet instead, which approved it on September 15th, said Kamnoon, adding that there is no hope for real police reform with the modified draft'

 

That's what happens when the whole place is rotten from the head down, all the institutions are corrupt and paranoid about prying eyes so they all go the 3 monkeys route

 

The whole deck of cards needs to be brought down top to bottom it's the only way but unfortunately corruption and nepotism is so deeply ingrained in the Thai psyche that's not likely to happen without bloodshed and pain  

 

Here's hoping they can grow a pair but until then I figure there is truth to the statement about people getting the government they deserve...

 

 

[Enoon]

 

 

 

44 minutes ago, steven100 said:

This guys just sore because he's a nobody. I wouldn't want to be in his shoes from now on.

He'll be flipping hamburgers next week ....  lol

 

And you're sore because, from a senator, it represents a threatening "denouncement".

 

More of them to come.

 

Bye bye Prayuth.

 

 

 

 

[Youlike]

57 minutes ago, rkidlad said:

Well, he promised to reform the police and he didn't even make an attempt. He had years of unaccountable power and he literally did nothing. So, yes, he's completely to blame. 

Well at least he gave the lottery tickets a fixed price.....he put much effort in that and now that problem is solved....ohhh, wait..

[Justgrazing]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

 

In his Facebook post today, Senator Kamnoon Sidhisamarn said that the much-needed reforms have not progressed since the Prime Minister, in his capacity as leader of the junta

that's a bit unfair .. he fails to say what a budding wandering minstrel the P M is having penned a number of catchy ditties about reconciliation and stuff .. and that by talking to that frog he has advanced the interpersonal communication relationships between man and amphibians .. so credit where it's due please Mr Kamnoon .. 

[spidermike007]

49 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

The police here own franchises. They are franchisees. They are not law enforcement officials. They rarely engage in law enforcement, traffic safety, or public safety. They are not here for the benefit of the people, and they are not here to keep us safe. They are here to collect. That is all they do. If you need to give them an official title, it would be that of a revenue collection agent. Only it is their own account, that they represent.

Always remember one thing. The police here are not engaged in law enforcement. They are revenue collection agents, and they each have their own franchise. Nobody will ever touch them. They are protected at the highest levels. They do as they please, and Thailand remains a relatively lawless state. The extraordinary aspect of all of this, is how much of a tribute this is, to the Thai people. Despite the lack of law and order, and the extraordinary lack of a deterrent, Thailand remains a relatively safe place to live, and to travel, and crime is far lower than it would be in almost any other country, without law and order. I consider this to be a great example of how good most Thai people really are, and how honorable they are, as a people. I never feel threatened here. I can walk the streets of most cities late at night, and never feel afraid of my security, like in many other nations. The most dangerous place in this country is on the roads.

I know some will take exception to my summary. We have all encountered punks here, and business people who have no vision, and do silly things. But, I believe those are people who are the exception to this rule. Most are quite extraordinary, and in a large sense, are self policed.

And that experience you had is very, very common. Many years ago, my sister in law, was involved with a rather dodgy Brit, while living on Samui. When she finally ditched him, he was livid, and just could not handle it. He ended up coming one night, at 3:30am, and burning down her bungalow, which was made of wood and thatch. It went up like a bomb. Fortunately, neither she, nor her roommate were there at the time, or they would have either died, or ended up with major 3rd degree burns all over their bodies, which I believe was his intention. In most countries, this would be treated as attempted murder, correct? The police were able to find a video of him racing away from the scene, at around 3:35am, as there was a CCTV camera in front of the police station, only a few hundred meters away from her bungalow. They took him in, and told him he would have to leave Thailand, and could never return. Not sure what exchanged hands, for him to not have been arrested. He was also told he would have to pay my sister in law 120,000 baht for the destruction of her gold, cash, and possessions. Same for her friend. He did pay. We know that for a fact, as we were friendly with a couple of his friends. When she went to the police station to collect, she was told that he never paid, and he was already back in Thailand. But, that they had advocated for her, and made sure he could never come back to Thailand! When she pushed, and told them that she knew for a fact that he had paid them, she was told that her life was now in danger, and that she needed to back down, and go away, or her safety could not be guaranteed.

The real problem is, you cannot report these guys. Not to the higher ups, not to the provincial authorities, and certainly not to the army. They are all corrupt beyond imagination. And the level of corruption simply escalates, the further up the food chain you go. They are not expected to be honest, and they are not expected to engage in law enforcement, traffic or public safety, on any level. It is an irrevocably broken and dysfunctional system. Anything hyperbole to the contrary, is just a smoke screen, intended to deceive the naive amongst us. So typical of these collection agents, who have the audacity to pose as cops. They are anything but. Many are operating their own little mafia gangs. But law enforcement? Never.

 

 

A correction to my story. When she went to the police station to collect, she was told that he never paid, and he was already back in Thailand. But, that they had advocated for her, and made sure he could never come back to Thailand!

 

Meant she was told he had already left Thailand. And was not ever able to return, according to the local cops. I am fairly certain he paid 120,000 per gal, and there were four gals sharing the bungalow. So, the cops kept the 480,000 baht, and made little effort to pretend otherwise. All they said, was "He no pay! Now leave!"

[Lacessit]

I'd agree with SM007's summation, the police are a collection agency.

Sometimes they don't even do that. There's a checkpoint on the way to Phan which is only manned in the morning. Presumably the Yaa Baa smugglers drive through in the afternoon or night.

There was a temporary checkpoint in Phayao where I got fined 1000 baht on the spot because my car registration had expired, unbeknownst to me. About 11 am. I saw the funny side of it, the three cops manning the checkpoint had it dismantled before I had even got back to my car with the ticket that would exempt me from further fines that day. They were off to lunch on the proceeds.

One thing I will give the police here, they smile when they are collecting. Not like Australia, where it's a stone face and prison stare.

[Artisi]

48 minutes ago, ChipButty said:

He did, he cleared all the chairs and umbrellas of the beach

And did move a few vendors off the streets in Bkk, guess we can't expect miracles..... 

[Nout]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

The police here own franchises. They are franchisees. They are not law enforcement officials. They rarely engage in law enforcement, traffic safety, or public safety. They are not here for the benefit of the people, and they are not here to keep us safe. They are here to collect. That is all they do. If you need to give them an official title, it would be that of a revenue collection agent. Only it is their own account, that they represent.

Always remember one thing. The police here are not engaged in law enforcement. They are revenue collection agents, and they each have their own franchise. Nobody will ever touch them. They are protected at the highest levels. They do as they please, and Thailand remains a relatively lawless state. The extraordinary aspect of all of this, is how much of a tribute this is, to the Thai people. Despite the lack of law and order, and the extraordinary lack of a deterrent, Thailand remains a relatively safe place to live, and to travel, and crime is far lower than it would be in almost any other country, without law and order. I consider this to be a great example of how good most Thai people really are, and how honorable they are, as a people. I never feel threatened here. I can walk the streets of most cities late at night, and never feel afraid of my security, like in many other nations. The most dangerous place in this country is on the roads.

I know some will take exception to my summary. We have all encountered punks here, and business people who have no vision, and do silly things. But, I believe those are people who are the exception to this rule. Most are quite extraordinary, and in a large sense, are self policed.

And that experience you had is very, very common. Many years ago, my sister in law, was involved with a rather dodgy Brit, while living on Samui. When she finally ditched him, he was livid, and just could not handle it. He ended up coming one night, at 3:30am, and burning down her bungalow, which was made of wood and thatch. It went up like a bomb. Fortunately, neither she, nor her roommate were there at the time, or they would have either died, or ended up with major 3rd degree burns all over their bodies, which I believe was his intention. In most countries, this would be treated as attempted murder, correct? The police were able to find a video of him racing away from the scene, at around 3:35am, as there was a CCTV camera in front of the police station, only a few hundred meters away from her bungalow. They took him in, and told him he would have to leave Thailand, and could never return. Not sure what exchanged hands, for him to not have been arrested. He was also told he would have to pay my sister in law 120,000 baht for the destruction of her gold, cash, and possessions. Same for her friend. He did pay. We know that for a fact, as we were friendly with a couple of his friends. When she went to the police station to collect, she was told that he never paid, and he was already back in Thailand. But, that they had advocated for her, and made sure he could never come back to Thailand! When she pushed, and told them that she knew for a fact that he had paid them, she was told that her life was now in danger, and that she needed to back down, and go away, or her safety could not be guaranteed.

The real problem is, you cannot report these guys. Not to the higher ups, not to the provincial authorities, and certainly not to the army. They are all corrupt beyond imagination. And the level of corruption simply escalates, the further up the food chain you go. They are not expected to be honest, and they are not expected to engage in law enforcement, traffic or public safety, on any level. It is an irrevocably broken and dysfunctional system. Anything hyperbole to the contrary, is just a smoke screen, intended to deceive the naive amongst us. So typical of these collection agents, who have the audacity to pose as cops. They are anything but. Many are operating their own little mafia gangs. But law enforcement? Never.

 

 

They do enforce the law and are superior to the British police.

[spidermike007]

1 minute ago, Nout said:

They do enforce the law and are superior to the British police.

Absolute nonsense. Give us a few examples, please. 

[PatOngo]

But........are'nt they chasing "Boss" Red Bull?

[Radar501]

Circle the correct answer

 

The Royal Thai Police Dept is:

a. lazy

b. incompetent

c. corrupt

d. all of the above

 

[herfiehandbag]

1 hour ago, steven100 said:

This guys just sore because he's a nobody. I wouldn't want to be in his shoes from now on.

He'll be flipping hamburgers next week ....  lol

At least that is an honest living Steven...

[Enzian]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but for most of us, as a practical matter, isn't the biggest problem that Thai Immigration is part of the RTP? The fact that there is a way around the 800,000 baht requirement, for example, is certainly a convenience for many, and some of my friends might not even still be here otherwise, but isn't there a word for this which starts with the letter "c'? It's hard not to see the whole system as some sort of bad joke.

[holy cow cm]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

And that experience you had is very, very common. Many years ago, my sister in law, was involved with a rather dodgy Brit, while living on Samui

In all consideration, you are talking about the Samui police which are their own breed.

[holy cow cm]

36 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Absolute nonsense. Give us a few examples, please. 

They do a great job manning cross walks at some schools and some intersections during peak traffic here in CM.

[DaveE13]

44 minutes ago, Nout said:

They do enforce the law and are superior to the British police.

Hhaha utter <deleted>

[Redvic]

1 hour ago, spidermike007 said:

The police here own franchises. They are franchisees. They are not law enforcement officials. They rarely engage in law enforcement, traffic safety, or public safety. They are not here for the benefit of the people, and they are not here to keep us safe. They are here to collect. That is all they do. If you need to give them an official title, it would be that of a revenue collection agent. Only it is their own account, that they represent.

Always remember one thing. The police here are not engaged in law enforcement. They are revenue collection agents, and they each have their own franchise. Nobody will ever touch them. They are protected at the highest levels. They do as they please, and Thailand remains a relatively lawless state. The extraordinary aspect of all of this, is how much of a tribute this is, to the Thai people. Despite the lack of law and order, and the extraordinary lack of a deterrent, Thailand remains a relatively safe place to live, and to travel, and crime is far lower than it would be in almost any other country, without law and order. I consider this to be a great example of how good most Thai people really are, and how honorable they are, as a people. I never feel threatened here. I can walk the streets of most cities late at night, and never feel afraid of my security, like in many other nations. The most dangerous place in this country is on the roads.

I know some will take exception to my summary. We have all encountered punks here, and business people who have no vision, and do silly things. But, I believe those are people who are the exception to this rule. Most are quite extraordinary, and in a large sense, are self policed.

And that experience you had is very, very common. Many years ago, my sister in law, was involved with a rather dodgy Brit, while living on Samui. When she finally ditched him, he was livid, and just could not handle it. He ended up coming one night, at 3:30am, and burning down her bungalow, which was made of wood and thatch. It went up like a bomb. Fortunately, neither she, nor her roommate were there at the time, or they would have either died, or ended up with major 3rd degree burns all over their bodies, which I believe was his intention. In most countries, this would be treated as attempted murder, correct? The police were able to find a video of him racing away from the scene, at around 3:35am, as there was a CCTV camera in front of the police station, only a few hundred meters away from her bungalow. They took him in, and told him he would have to leave Thailand, and could never return. Not sure what exchanged hands, for him to not have been arrested. He was also told he would have to pay my sister in law 120,000 baht for the destruction of her gold, cash, and possessions. Same for her friend. He did pay. We know that for a fact, as we were friendly with a couple of his friends. When she went to the police station to collect, she was told that he never paid, and he was already back in Thailand. But, that they had advocated for her, and made sure he could never come back to Thailand! When she pushed, and told them that she knew for a fact that he had paid them, she was told that her life was now in danger, and that she needed to back down, and go away, or her safety could not be guaranteed.

The real problem is, you cannot report these guys. Not to the higher ups, not to the provincial authorities, and certainly not to the army. They are all corrupt beyond imagination. And the level of corruption simply escalates, the further up the food chain you go. They are not expected to be honest, and they are not expected to engage in law enforcement, traffic or public safety, on any level. It is an irrevocably broken and dysfunctional system. Anything hyperbole to the contrary, is just a smoke screen, intended to deceive the naive amongst us. So typical of these collection agents, who have the audacity to pose as cops. They are anything but. Many are operating their own little mafia gangs. But law enforcement? Never.

 

 

Never a truer word spoken. ????????

[BobBKK]

Who is going to trust them?  changing the law to win the election?  200 buddies as senators?  an unelected PM?  banning parties that might beat them?  WHO will trust them to reform the very people who keep the citizens under control (with their Army buddies)? 

[mark131v]

1 hour ago, Nout said:

They do enforce the law and are superior to the British police.

Are you drunk being sarcastic or just delusional?

 

Really hope it is just drunk or sarcasm as that level of delusion is very, very dangerous and would require immediate intervention or you may end up like our friend Steven stuck in a make believe alternate reality, scary stuff...

[Artisi]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Absolute nonsense. Give us a few examples, please. 

Don't encourage...