Louisville police officers cleared of criminal charges in Breonna Taylor death

[Sujo]

4 hours ago, bodga said:

Sounds reasonable to me lets  be  honest  many of these  people  getting shot are  up to no  good  anyway, drug  dealers , wife  beaters, if they were half  decent  most of this  would  never  happen.

Evidence that walker was any of those things?

[connda]

This concept of acceptable collateral damage really needs to be revisited because the other option will simply be in the form of a mass of angry protesters influencing their state and local politicians to defund the police.  The pendulum needs to swing back toward the middle.

Edited September 24, 2020 by connda

[Sujo]

4 hours ago, donnacha said:

Despite all the lies spread in the immediate aftermath, witness testimony proved that the officers correctly executed their search warrant and only fired after being fired upon.


 

You are incorrect.

There are witnesses that state the police did not knock and identify but the prosecutor did not call them, he only called the witness that said they did.

 

 

[evadgib]

3 hours ago, Tug said:

Hope it doesent get out of hand tonight the core issues of this will be addressed early next year when we have a qualified president in office 

He's already there ????

[Bluespunk]

4 hours ago, bodga said:

Police  announced themselves and didnt have to, drug  dealer

Which drug dealer would that be then?

[Mama Noodle]

 

 

 

[Mama Noodle]

13 minutes ago, Sujo said:

You are incorrect.

There are witnesses that state the police did not knock and identify but the prosecutor did not call them, he only called the witness that said they did.

 

Legitimate source demanded. 

 

Otherwise you're just race-baiting. 

[Eric Loh]

2 hours ago, Mama Noodle said:

Anywho, Louisville getting the full BLM treatment right now. Riots, fires, organized antifa presence... 

 

Real awesome. 

Riots, fires related to the BLM? Prove needed. You have? 

[whaleboneman]

23 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

Legitimate source demanded. 

 

Otherwise you're just race-baiting. 

And that job is exclusively yours?

[donnacha]

32 minutes ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

Legitimate source demanded. 

 

Otherwise you're just race-baiting. 

There's no point even asking. He clearly doesn't understand the basics of how these investigations work. The prosecutors, all Democrat in Louisville, would have been absolutely desperate to prosecute and get a police scalp to calm the mob if it had been in any way legally feasible.

It amazes me that so many people here who are not American, and who have no idea how the American system actually works, spend so much of their time fulminating about American politics.

This is just their game, to start denying facts that every informed person already knows to be true, or that they could easily Google for themselves. They do this despite never providing any interesting information in their own comments, they merely attack others, in barely coherent sentences replete with misspellings.

I had one intellectual giant earlier, on a different thread, demanding sources for stuff that was already linked to in the first few posts. Of course, he still couldn't admit he was wrong, never apologized for wasting everyone's time. They never do.

 

Edited September 24, 2020 by donnacha

[Bender Rodriguez]

body cams ?

[RoadWarrior371]

6 minutes ago, donnacha said:

There's no point even asking. He clearly doesn't understand the basics of how these investigations work. The prosecutors, all Democrat in Louisville, would have been absolutely desperate to prosecute and get a police scalp to calm the mob if it had been in any way legally feasible.

It amazes me that so many people here who are not American, and who have no idea how the American system actually works, spend so much of their time fulminating about American politics.

Finally, a post that makes sense.  The fact is the Grand Jury (a jury of Breonna Taylor's peers) spent months evaluating the case law and evidence, and could support murder charges says it all.  Of course, pennyless barstool lawyers with a chip on their shoulder against 'the man' will weigh in and feel some sense of societal revenge is needed. ????

 

 

 

 

[Eric Loh]

22 minutes ago, donnacha said:

There's no point even asking. He clearly doesn't understand the basics of how these investigations work. The prosecutors, all Democrat in Louisville, would have been absolutely desperate to prosecute and get a police scalp to calm the mob if it had been in any way legally feasible.

Can you name the special prosecutors in this case. No malice intended. Just want to confirm. 

[donnacha]

12 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Can you name the special prosecutors in this case. No malice intended. Just want to confirm. 

Special prosecutors do not head investigations. The regular prosecutors are who we are talking about here. They are usually selected by the mayor and their career progress is usually tied to his patronage.

A special prosecutor is similar to a special guest star on a TV show. They are usually trusted public figures, brought in for one investigation, usually to head off accusations of political or racial bias. They do not have to have any prosecutorial experience. Their job is oversight, and to sign off on the process, but not to set it.

 

Edited September 24, 2020 by donnacha

[simple1]

34 minutes ago, Bender Rodriguez said:

body cams ?

 

 

 

No. Civil suit settled with the family included the promise local police will be equipped with body cameras. Not one of the bullets fired by police hit the guy who fired at police, but the unarmed deceased was hit six times. Can someone explain, not a trump supporter rant, how the family can receive $12 million in damages for wrongful death, but no police officers are being charged for their actions leading to her death.

Edited September 24, 2020 by simple1

[Eric Loh]

4 minutes ago, donnacha said:

Special prosecutors do not head investigations. The regular prosecutors are who we are talking about here. They are usually selected by the mayor and their career progress is usually tied to his patronage.

A special prosecutor is similar to a special guest star on a TV show. They are usually trusted public figures, brought in for one investigation, usually to head off accusations of political or racial bias. They do not have to have any prosecutorial experience. Their job is oversight, and to sign off on the process, but not to set it.

 

Stand corrected, there were special prosecutors in this case and they are career officials with impeccable record and in character. 
https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/breonna-taylor/2020/09/12/breonna-taylor-case-what-we-know-special-prosecutors/3461595001/

[Smigel]

1 hour ago, Sujo said:

A couple of points.

 

The grand jury only hears evidence from the prosecutor. No defence allowed. The prosecutor stated walker shot the officer but the defence after seeing the report questions the ballistic report as non conclusive, but cannot tell the grand jury.

Do you have a link for your post, the op clearly states Sargeant Manningly was shot in the thigh. 

Something not right here. 

[spidermike007]

The police broke their doors down, and they had no drugs in the house. The only reason she was targeted was the fact that she was involved with a drug dealer two years prior. It was a spectacularly ignorant raid, on the part of the police. Most police departments in the US are overly militarized, and it leads to these kinds of unnecessary police slayings. 

[Sujo]

1 minute ago, Smigel said:

Do you have a link for your post, the op clearly states Sargeant Manningly was shot in the thigh. 

Something not right here. 

I didnt say he wasnt shot. I said the defence said the ballistics report was inconclusive that it was walkers bullet.

[donnacha]

1 minute ago, Eric Loh said:

Stand corrected, there were special prosecutors in this case and they are career officials with impeccable record and in character. 
https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/breonna-taylor/2020/09/12/breonna-taylor-case-what-we-know-special-prosecutors/3461595001/

I do not understand your point. The insinuation in this thread has been that the prosecutors chose not to listen to witnesses who would have proved the police officers guilty, but you are now saying how impeccable they were.

No one with any sense doubted, even for a moment, that any investigation in a high-profile case like this would be thorough and honest. Equally, no one with sense attributed an unfortunate death to any sort of racism on the part of the officers, so, it was very obvious that they would not be found culpable for her death.

Anything else is just dancing around and trying to spin this whole thing into something it isn't.

 

[Sujo]

1 hour ago, Mama Noodle said:

 

Legitimate source demanded. 

 

Otherwise you're just race-baiting. 

Its reported here. Police and one witness said there was a knock. Other witnesses said there wasnt. They werent called.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/former-louisville-police-officer-brett-hankison-charged-breonna-taylor-s-n1238036

[donnacha]

15 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

The police broke their doors down, and they had no drugs in the house. The only reason she was targeted was the fact that she was involved with a drug dealer two years prior. It was a spectacularly ignorant raid, on the part of the police. Most police departments in the US are overly militarized, and it leads to these kinds of unnecessary police slayings. 

This case is not about "most police departments in the US". It is about one department and three particular police officers, all real human beings.

You may well feel that a reckoning needs to come, and it would be convenient if this case were what some are trying to make it, but you should think logically about what happened, otherwise you build your grand revolution on a foundation of lies.

The police knocked and identified themselves as police. The boyfriend, by his own admission, heard them but decided not to open the door. Instead he grabbed his gun.

The police then broke down the door because that is what they do when the occupants choose not to open the door. The boyfriend discharged his weapon. This was a poor idea. The police fired back, unintentionally killed the girlfriend.

The police acted correctly in a difficult and frightening situation. You, in the same situation, would probably have followed your training too. If we are now going to pretend that this incident represents all that is wrong with American policing, that is an evil misrepresentation that will affect the lives of actual good cops and undermine good police officers throughout the country.

 

Edited September 24, 2020 by donnacha

[Eric Loh]

8 minutes ago, donnacha said:

I do not understand your point. The insinuation in this thread has been that the prosecutors chose not to listen to witnesses who would have proved the police officers guilty, but you are now saying how impeccable they were.

No one with any sense doubted, even for a moment, that any investigation in a high-profile case like this would be thorough and honest. Equally, no one with sense attributed an unfortunate death to any sort of racism on the part of the officers, so, it was very obvious that they would not be found culpable for her death.

Anything else is just dancing around and trying to spin this whole thing into something it isn't.

 

You made the insinuation that "The prosecutors, all Democrat in Louisville, would have been absolutely desperate to prosecute and get a police scalp to calm the mob if it had been in any way legally feasible". My point is that they are career prosecutors of good character and shouldn't be accused in the manner you described. I don't even know they are Democrats if that's really true. 

[donnacha]

14 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

My point is that they are career prosecutors of good character and shouldn't be accused in the manner you described.

Hang on, are you under the impression that me mentioning the system of patronage is an accusation of bad character?

Look, we seem to be at cross purposes here. You may be applying sensibilities that apply in some other country. You're not American, right?

The system in the US is more openly political than in most other countries. For example, the head of police in some towns is elected. In the case of prosecutors, they are mostly associated with a specific party and even a specific mayor, and the final calls on how to prosecute and what types of crime to prioritize are often made, openly, by the mayor. They actually get elected based on what they say they're going to do. Patronage is a core part of how their administration delivers on those promises.

The same goes for lobbyists. In the US, politicians can get big donations from entities with vested interests in certain situations. In most countries, that has to happen under the table. America's system is pretty unique. So, no one is saying that anyone was of bad character or doing anything untoward.

Anyway, all this is nit-picking. No administration, Democrat or Republican, would have missed the chance to rush into a prosecution of a police officer who had committed an unlawful killing. Even the slightest mistake and those guys would have been toast. Thankfully, that political pressure does not yet extend to actually framing them.

 

Edited September 24, 2020 by donnacha

[spidermike007]

19 minutes ago, donnacha said:

This case is not about "most police departments in the US". It is about one department and three particular police officers, all real human beings.

You may well feel that a reckoning needs to come, and it would be convenient if this case were what some are trying to make it, but you should think logically about what happened, otherwise you build your grand revolution on a foundation of lies.

The police knocked and identified themselves as police. The boyfriend, by his own admission, heard them but decided not to open the door. Instead he grabbed his gun.

The police then broke down the door because that is what they do when the occupants choose not to open the door. The boyfriend discharged his weapon. This was a poor idea. The police fired back, unintentionally killed the girlfriend.

The police acted correctly in a difficult and frightening situation. You, in the same situation, would probably have followed your training too. If we are now going to pretend that this incident represents all that is wrong with American policing, that is an evil misrepresentation that will affect the lives of actual good cops and undermine good police officers throughout the country.

 

An evil misinterpretation of police, huh? And a no knock warrant is NOT evil? Not a miscarriage of justice? Not an over reach? Sorry, but I have friends who have been subject to police abuse, undeservedly. It is not about one department. It is about alot of police departments in the US, who are militarized, overzealous, and not trained to take someone down without fatal force. I realize when confronted with a man with a gun, force has to be used. But examine the facts, first. The police did not respond, when asked who was there. Period. Police slaughtering civilians in the US is completely out of control. 

 

Taylor was in bed with her boyfriend, Kenneth Walker III, who said he heard banging at the door just after midnight. Concerned there might be trouble, he grabbed his gun, which his attorney said he legally owns. They yelled to ask who was at the door but got no response, he said afterward. The officers used a battering ram to break in the door, and Walker then fired one shot at who he believed were intruders. Mattingly, who was first through the door, was shot in the leg. He and two other officers -- Hankison and Cosgrove -- then returned fire throughout the home. Walker was unharmed, but Taylor was shot multiple times and died in the shooting. "Somebody kicked in the door and shot my girlfriend," Walker said in a 911 call.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/23/us/breonna-taylor-timeline/index.html

[donnacha]

15 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

And a no knock warrant is NOT evil? Not a miscarriage of justice? Not an over reach?

It simply was not a no knock warrant. They knocked. The CNN article you linked to says as much.

With respect, please read the actual official report, not articles hastily written by activist reporters operating on rumors.

 

Edited September 24, 2020 by donnacha

[Baerboxer]

6 hours ago, donnacha said:

Despite all the lies spread in the immediate aftermath, witness testimony proved that the officers correctly executed their search warrant and only fired after being fired upon.

The problem, this year, is that every fatality involving the police is being cynically exploited to inflame passions and advance a particular narrative before anyone bothers to check the facts. The actual truth of an individual incident no longer matters to the Democrats because they believe the entire system to be systematically racist - even if these particular police are innocent it doesn't matter because all police are guilty.

Luckily, the court system does not work that way (yet). A lot of these prosecutions are set in motion for political reasons and, even in cases of obvious wrong-doing such as George Floyd's death, prosecutors are setting charges so high that no court will be able to convict on that basis.

Bringing Murder One charges suits a prosecutor's political needs but will ultimately undermine trust in the justice system and result in more chaos in Democrat cities, and more black businesses getting burned down by white BLM protesters, when the charges are inevitably thrown out.

 

 

All of what you wrote is true. And is what to expect when a justice system becomes totally politicized. Truth, facts, honesty and treating people with fairness and the truth doesn't matter to politicians. Which is why democracies only ever work with fully independent justice systems.

[donnacha]

15 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

And a no knock warrant is NOT evil?

In this situation, a no knock warrant was not considered necessary, but in some situations it is an absolute necessity. To claim they are "evil" shows a blatant disregard for the dangers police officers can face.

CONSIDER THIS: If they actually DID have a no knock warrant in this situation, they would have come crashing through the door and entered the bedroom before the boyfriend had a chance to get his gun. He would not have fired, his girlfriend would still be alive.

I am not saying that the judge should have issued a no knock warrant, there was no reason to believe there was a retard with a gun on the premises, but the fact that the police knocked is what gave him time to turn a lawful search into a tragedy.

 

Edited September 24, 2020 by donnacha

[Rimmer]

A personal attack has been removed

[Morch]

5 hours ago, donnacha said:

It is tragic that the shooters don't understand how each incident like this nudges tens of thousands of votes towards the Republicans.

The Democrats think that the chaos will help them, and I understand their thinking, but I have a hunch they are miscalculating the cumulative effect of this stuff.

 

 

Shooters. Democrats. Not same same. Not acting according to some joint agenda.