17 minutes ago, johnnybangkok said:

Agreed. 

And the reason he's been hiding it all is that either one goes against his 'brand', especially the 'horrible businessman' one. He was elected on being the successful maverick who had so much money he couldn't be influenced and would sort out the country like he has done with his businesses but the Emporer really has no clothes and the tax returns will show that.

But I do think they will go further than that and show some form of tax evasion or dodgy deal; I mean if you believe as Trump does that paying taxes and doing the right thing is just for losers, then there is bound to be something there that falls fowel of the law. I mean the man just can't help himself

 

What's interesting is the Russians aren't implicated....directly.  It wouldn't surprise me if Putin had one of his oligarchs funnel money through Deutsche Bank to Trump Org and hid his tracks.  Putin's pretty wily that way, whereas Trump is an idiot.  But somehow, someway, like Dan Coats suggested, Putin's got something on Trump.  And Trump's attitude towards Moscow directly reflects that.   

38 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

The article suggest at the very least, a very aggressive tax avoidance strategy, at worst, tax fraud.

 

So either Trump committed felony tax evasion, or he's a horrible businessman who loses millions every year.

 

I'd say a bit of both...with some massive debt on top of all that. 

 

Yes, the article “suggests” any of things, but that’s all they do. 
 

I know how complicated this must seem to you, but he loses money with some businesses and makes money with others. he can write off the losses to reduce his tax burden. 

Perhaps he is a horrible business man, any perhaps he has a lot of debt, but being a horrible business man is not illegal, nor is being in debt. 
 

If he has committed felony tax evasion he will be prosecuted. I can wait. 
 

 

1 hour ago, mogandave said:

And this is all years old now, yes? 
 

Has not the IRS,  the NYT, the State of New York and any number of other people been investigating all of it? 
 

The IRS (apparently) leaked Trump’s tax returns to the Times, why would they not leak anything else they had? 
 

if he’s guilty of tax evasion I would like to see him convicted, removed from office and incarcerated. 

If someone in the IRS leaked his tax returns to the press, I would like to see them convicted, terminated, lose their pension and be incarcerated. 
 

Until then, this just looks like an old story the left is re-hashing just in time for the election.

 

It's not "old news", but an ongoing issue. And it's not been reported to this degree, hence it's current news. Various parties have been investigating this, yes. Did you actually have a point?

 

I have no idea if the IRS leaked Trump's records. That's something you allege. Could have been someone on Team Trump (current or previous). As you've no idea who leaked what, or even if there was a leak, how would you know what information was available?

 

So, basically, you've got nothing other than you don't like the story.

49 minutes ago, Susco said:

Of course they have, and that is also the reason why they have a decade long investigation still going.

 

Trump is currently embroiled in a decade-long Internal Revenue Service audit over a $72.9 million tax refund he claimed after declaring large losses. If the IRS rules against him in that audit, he could have to pay over $100 million, according to the newspaper.

 

 

So it’s your position that anyone that is being audited by the IRS and is in a dispute about a refund they may not be entitled to is guilty of criminal tax evasion, is that correct? 
 

If the IRS rules against him, he would have to pay any taxes and penalties. Doesn’t sound sound like felony tax evasion to me.  

On ‎9‎/‎28‎/‎2020 at 7:02 AM, jimmybcool said:

What I find fascinating is this concern over his tax returns.  I really don't care.  If the IRS thinks they are correct and he is paying his legally obligated taxes good enough for me.  I do know the left wants to see them so they can (as usual) twist them to indicate something nefarious.  And the average human won't have a chance in hell of comprehending tax returns at that level.

 

Better still I would like to know how so many people in congress enter service poor and end up rich on congressional/senate pay.  How bout some investigation into that? 

Here is the problem: what did he say to the tax office and what to the banks:

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/nyt-tax-story-puts-trump-in-bind-admit-being-a-business-failure-or-admit-lying-on-taxes/vi-BB19wrmQ?ocid=spartanntp

 

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

You must have read a different article then, time for you to read the full one, since it looks like you're basing your opinion on the Reuters extract.

So the Reuters cut out all the incriminating stuff the Times has on Trump. That makes sense. 

2 minutes ago, mogandave said:

So the Reuters cut out all the incriminating stuff the Times has on Trump. That makes sense. 

No, not all by any means. But the Times article was very long. If you like, I can PM you the text.

41 minutes ago, mogandave said:

Yes, the article “suggests” any of things, but that’s all they do. 
 

I know how complicated this must seem to you, but he loses money with some businesses and makes money with others. he can write off the losses to reduce his tax burden. 

Perhaps he is a horrible business man, any perhaps he has a lot of debt, but being a horrible business man is not illegal, nor is being in debt. 
 

If he has committed felony tax evasion he will be prosecuted. I can wait. 
 

 

The reporting contradicts trump's claims he's a great deal maker and businessman which based upon many comments on this forum are some of the main reasons the minority of voters voted for him. Basically, the report confirms trump is a fraud, liar and a loser in the commercial world, staying afloat via the US taxpayer and highly likely funding from hostile power/s corrupt individuals; not the profile one would want for a president of the USA. It is expected there will be more revelations in the coming weeks which hopefully will be the death knell of trump as president. 

38 minutes ago, mogandave said:

So the Reuters cut out all the incriminating stuff the Times has on Trump. That makes sense. 

If you read the article you're fully informed, as are many others. However it looks like some like to discuss without complete information, even though easily obtained.

12 minutes ago, simple1 said:

The reporting contradicts trump's claims he's a great deal maker and businessman which based upon many comments on this forum are some of the main reasons the minority of voters voted for him. Basically, the report confirms trump is a fraud, liar and a loser in the commercial world, staying afloat via the US taxpayer and highly likely funding from hostile power/s corrupt individuals; not the profile one would want for a president of the USA. It is expected there will be more revelations in the coming weeks which hopefully will be the death knell of trump as president. 

So which of those things will he be prosecuted for? 
 

Yea, I don’t doubt the Times will drip out a little more each day and save something big for a couple days before the election. 

9 minutes ago, mogandave said:

So which of those things will he be prosecuted for? 
 

Yea, I don’t doubt the Times will drip out a little more each day and save something big for a couple days before the election. 

Well Trump can forestall that by releasing all that information now, can't he?

On 9/28/2020 at 5:18 AM, webfact said:

Trump paid no income taxes in 10 of last 15 years - New York Times

Is that illegal? I'd be interested in how much in taxes the NYT paid the past 15 years or the Sulzbergers; and while you're at it, you can throw in Jeff Bezos, the Washington Post, and Amazon as well.

Edited September 29, 20205 yr by Pattaya Spotter

Trump will ALWAYS.....  ALWAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

1.  have access to millions.    Do you?  no

2.  never be poor.     Are you?

3.  always be relatively rich

4.  able to make millions a year

5.  live a better life than 99.9999999999% if based only on money

 

do i want his life?  no.  

 

but this article is on money and he can give a talk next year and make millions.  write a book, another book.   people will give him money, forever.  

 

 

1 hour ago, mogandave said:

Yes, the article “suggests” any of things, but that’s all they do. 
 

I know how complicated this must seem to you, but he loses money with some businesses and makes money with others. he can write off the losses to reduce his tax burden. 

Perhaps he is a horrible business man, any perhaps he has a lot of debt, but being a horrible business man is not illegal, nor is being in debt. 
 

If he has committed felony tax evasion he will be prosecuted. I can wait. 
 

 

While tax fraud is a serious felony, I, like you, can wait for a thorough investigation and if warranted prosecution - I rather hope that won’t be too long coming.

 

Tax fraud, is however to my mind not the most serious question the publication of Trump’s tax records raises.

 

A far more serious matter is the fact Trump is in debt to the tune of $ hundreds of millions, Forbes estimates as much as $1.1 Billion, and those debts are to foreign entities.

 

The President of the US in huge debt to foreigners is a matter that ought to concern every American, regardless of political affiliation.

 

He is clearly financially compromised and in the pocket of foreigners to stay afloat.

 

His foreign creditors have leverage over him.

 

His foreign creditors have leverage over the President of the US.

 

Think about how serious a matter that is.

 

 

Tax fraud is a minor side issue.

 

 

Edited September 29, 20205 yr by Chomper Higgot

3 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Is that illegal? I'd be interested in how much in taxes the NYT paid the past 15 years or the Sulzbergers; and while you're at it, you can throw in Jeff Bezos, the Washington Post, and Amazon as well.

More whataboutary.

 

 

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

More whataboutary.

 

 

More deflection. Answer the question, is it illegal to use a nation's tax laws to minimize one's taxes...and is Donald Trump the only one who does so?

Edited September 29, 20205 yr by Pattaya Spotter

2 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

More deflection. Answer the question, is it illegal to use a nation's tax laws to minimize one's taxes...and is Donald Trump the only one who does so?

If Trump believed his tax records demonstrated he was an honest law abiding citizen he would have released them way back, like he promised he would.

 

As it is he’s used the power of the DoJ to fight to keep his taxes secret.

 

I’m no tax expert, but I’m quite sure a number of people who are tax experts are going through these documents with a fine tooth comb.

 

When more is revealed we’ll discuss the matter of legality.

6 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

More deflection. Answer the question, is it illegal to use a nation's tax laws to minimize one's taxes...and is Donald Trump the only one who does so?

Tax avoidance is legal.

Tax fraud is seriously illegal.

Yes, 45 can be sent to prison if he doesn't stay in power.

Thus, he is very motivated to stay in power. Dangerously so.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

If Trump believed his tax records demonstrated he was an honest law abiding citizen he would have released them way back, like he promised he would.

 

As it is he’s used the power of the DoJ to fight to keep his taxes secret.

 

I’m no tax expert, but I’m quite sure a number of people who are tax experts are going through these documents with a fine tooth comb.

 

When more is revealed we’ll discuss the matter of legality.

It's not the duty of "law abiding citizens" in the U.S. to prove their innocence of anything...that privilege is reserved for the people of the People's Republic of China, North Korea, and even some Western European legal regimes. It's very apparent you are no legal or tax expert...and that the only crime that's been committed here is by the person or persons who gave these confidential records to the New York Times (hopefully they will be found and prosecuted (civilly and criminally).

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Tax avoidance is legal.

Tax fraud is seriously illegal.

Thank you for stating the obvious.

2 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Thank you for stating the obvious.

You're very welcome, and at this point it does appear "strongly" that 45 and others in his crime family have committed tax fraud over a period of many years. You can bet the house they're worried. 

Just now, Pattaya Spotter said:

It's not the duty of "law abiding citizens" in the U.S. to prove their innocence of anything...that privilege is reserved for the people of the People's Republic of China, North Korea, and even some Western European legal regimes. It's very apparent you are no legal or tax expert...and that the only crime that's been committed here is by the person or persons who gave these confidential records to the New York Times (hopefully they will be found and prosecuted (civilly and criminally).

Given the FACT that Trump is in dispute with the IRS over their claim

he needs to repay $73,000,000, I think it safe to say ‘there is a question mark over the correctness of Trump’s tax returns’.

 

Here’s another FACT, I haven’t accused Trump of tax fraud, I have rather pointed out what I believe to be a very serious threat to US security, the massive debts Trump has to foreigners.

 

On a point of logic:

 

The tax records can’t be both fake and ‘illegally obtained.

 

The two are mutually exclusive.

 

 

Just now, Jingthing said:

You're very welcome, and at this point it does appear "strongly" that 45 and others in his crime family have committed tax fraud over a period of many years. You can bet the house they're worried. 

Tax minimization strategies often look like tax "fraud" to the financially and legally unsophisticated (i.e., the general public). If the IRS feels the federal treasury is owed money by Mr. Trump they can take their case to court.

3 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Given the FACT that Trump is in dispute with the IRS over their claim

he needs to repay $73,000,000, I think it safe to say ‘there is a question mark over the correctness of Trump’s tax returns

The IRS often disputes facts and figures on tax returns...and as often as not they are brushed back by the courts. That they are questioning a return doesn't by any stretch mean they are right in their interpretation of the tax law/regulation/provision at issue.

 

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The tax records can’t be both fake and ‘illegally obtained.

 

They certainly can...and there is no proof that the records obtained by the Times are in fact Trumps true, correct, and complete returns. If they are, the Times itself has admitted that a crime was committed by the person or entity that disclosed them.

14 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

It's not the duty of "law abiding citizens" in the U.S. to prove their innocence of anything...that privilege is reserved for the people of the People's Republic of China, North Korea, and even some Western European legal regimes. It's very apparent you are no legal or tax expert...and that the only crime that's been committed here is by the person or persons who gave these confidential records to the New York Times (hopefully they will be found and prosecuted (civilly and criminally).

But Trump claimed those "confidential records" were fake. So what crime are you proposing that they committed?

5 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Tax minimization strategies often look like tax "fraud" to the financially and legally unsophisticated (i.e., the general public). If the IRS feels the federal treasury is owed money by Mr. Trump they can take their case to court.

Some of the things Trump did was rather "unsophisticated."  Like claiming personal expenses as business expenses for deduction purposes, paying his daughter a consultant fee even though she already worked for the company, etc., etc.  You do realize that it would be near impossible to bring charges against Trump while he's still in office.  But once he's out-of-office, say bye bye to your cult leader. 

8 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

Tax minimization strategies often look like tax "fraud" to the financially and legally unsophisticated (i.e., the general public). If the IRS feels the federal treasury is owed money by Mr. Trump they can take their case to court.

They can't indict him while he is president.  If he's so innocent he would have released his taxes like a normal president or presidential candidate. 

16 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

It's not the duty of "law abiding citizens" in the U.S. to prove their innocence of anything...that privilege is reserved for the people of the People's Republic of China, North Korea, and even some Western European legal regimes. It's very apparent you are no legal or tax expert...and that the only crime that's been committed here is by the person or persons who gave these confidential records to the New York Times (hopefully they will be found and prosecuted (civilly and criminally).

You're applying the standards of a criminal trial to a matter of public concern. There's a good reason that those safeguards are in place. They're there to protect citizens against the power of the government to fine and imprison them. Not appropriate standards for someone in public office.

1 minute ago, rebekkahr said:

But Trump claimed those "confidential records" were fake. So what crime are you proposing that they committed?

Yes that's another funny part. He's crumbling now. He says they're both fake and illegally obtained. Not logical! But his fans eat up any garbage that he spews. Nothing ever wakes them up that their dear leader is a grifter con man of epic proportions. 

7 minutes ago, Pattaya Spotter said:

They certainly can...and there is no proof that the records obtained by the Times are in fact Trumps true, correct, and complete returns. If they are, the Times itself has admitted that a crime was committed by the person or entity that disclosed them.

Really? The Times illegally obtained fake documents? If they're fake, what laws were violated in the obtaining of them? Anyway, Trump is no longer claiming that they're fake. Or, at least, not currently.

Edited September 29, 20205 yr by rebekkahr