Why so difficult to get Thai landlords to realise that they don't own your deposit?

[Promula]

It's not the first time I've had issues but will almost certainly be the last, as I'm going to use monthly Airbnb bookings in future to avoid the contract and deposit nonsense. Shortly moving out of a condo I've rented for three months and the landlord has emailed me to say he's keeping 7000 baht of my 20,000 baht deposit because the (five year old!) fridge freezer died and was replaced last month, and another 3000 baht for cleaning including the aircon units. 

 

How do I get him to understand that

a - neither of these things are stated as payable in the contract

b - the deposit money is mine, not his to spend on a whim on whatever he feels like

 

His response to those statements was that the money is in his bank, so it's his until he decides otherwise.

Edited October 6, 2020 by Promula

[samsensam]

 

sorry you're having problems but such situations can easily be avoided. i've lived in several apartments and never had any issues, i dont know of any friends who have had problems either. i recommend putting effort and research into where you choose to live, check places out, speak to people who live there, if you have friends ask for recommendations. my current apartment block is managed extremely well; the owners are educated and speak english, courteous staff who speak passable english, good security, any problems are sorted efficiently by in house staff, anyone causing noise or other problems gets one warning and is then evicted. there are good places out there.

[Promula]

6 minutes ago, samsensam said:

 

 i've lived in several apartments and never had any issues,

Thanks for the info. However, this is a condo building not an apartment building. Individual units bought and owned by landlords. Arranged by an agent, and I've never met the landlord, who lives in Bangkok but seems to have got rid of the agent since I moved in. It's a different kettle of fish to an apartment where the owner owns the whole building and you can ask other people what they're like.

 

As a side note, the condo building, facilities, staff and security are fine.  

Edited October 6, 2020 by Promula

[lopburi3]

15 minutes ago, Promula said:

because the (five year old!) fridge freezer died

You are aware the average life is 14 to 17 years?  So 5 years old is almost new.  Have no idea if your usage had anything to do with failure however.

 

[Pilotman]

8 minutes ago, Promula said:

Thanks for the info. However, this is a condo building not an apartment building. Individual units bought and owned by landlords. Arranged by an agent, and I've never met the landlord, who lives in Bangkok but seems to have got rid of the agent since I moved in. It's a different kettle of fish to an apartment where the owner owns the whole building and you can ask other people what they're like.

 

As a side note, the condo building, facilities, staff and security are fine.  

sorry but the best, perhaps only thing to do when you pay a deposit here, is to write it off. A lot of landlords are chancers, if not downright criminals and you have no rights. Best to divide the deposit amount by the number of months you will be in the property and treat it as part of the rent.  If you get some back so be it. No wonder some people leave a rented property and don't give a toss about what they do to it, or the state they leave it in.  It's hardly surprising. 

[LomSak27]

Just now, Promula said:

How do I get him to understand that

You won't. He sees as free money and what you going to do? I know of lots of stories like this plus one of my own. If it helps they pull stuff like this in other countries too.  

Poster #2 says he never has a problem, neither do his friends, but as I recall his previous posts on the subject, three grains of salt.  

 

Just now, Pilotman said:

No wonder some people leave a rented property and don't give a toss about what they do to it, or the state they leave it in.  It's hardly surprising. 

Heh - yes  for sure a few of those terrible tenant pics, news articles, are a result of deposits not returned.

 

[Promula]

9 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

A lot of landlords are chancers, if not downright criminals and you have no rights.

A fair point but I think this guy is simply arrogant and thinks he can do whatever he wants with my money because it's a lot of bother to go to court.

 

It could also be a nationalist dislike of handing money back to foreigners once they've extracted it from you.

[Pilotman]

Just now, Promula said:

A fair point but I think this guy is simply arrogant and thinks he can do whatever he wants with my money because it's a lot of bother to go to court.

 

It could also be a nationalist dislike of handing money back to foreigners once they've extracted it from you.

he can do what he likes. 

[Matzzon]

43 minutes ago, Promula said:

How do I get him to understand that

a - neither of these things are stated as payable in the contract

b - the deposit money is mine, not his to spend on a whim on whatever he feels like

 

His response to those statements was that the money is in his bank, so it's his until he decides otherwise.

That sounds like an impossible mission. Better call Mr Cruise.

[couchpotato]

41 minutes ago, samsensam said:

 

sorry you're having problems but such situations can easily be avoided. i've lived in several apartments and never had any issues, i dont know of any friends who have had problems either. i recommend putting effort and research into where you choose to live, check places out, speak to people who live there, if you have friends ask for recommendations. my current apartment block is managed extremely well; the owners are educated and speak english, courteous staff who speak passable english, good security, any problems are sorted efficiently by in house staff, anyone causing noise or other problems gets one warning and is then evicted. there are good places out there.

Good info, but doesn't address the OP's topic. Do better.

[pixelaoffy]

There's no legal protection in Thailand.  You have to hire lawyer. That's the crazy system. Never give more than one month's deposit ! Never rent from private property or unserviced condo because the owner won't pay for any repairs or decoration I left the last place in Bangkok and never paid the last month's rent so lost my deposit.  I knew the owner

would take money out for wear and tear and small floor damage because she always refused to do any repairs or maintenance in her property ! It's a c-r-a-p shoot renting in Thailand 

Edited October 6, 2020 by pixelaoffy

[sungod]

29 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

sorry but the best, perhaps only thing to do when you pay a deposit here, is to write it off. A lot of landlords are chancers, if not downright criminals and you have no rights. Best to divide the deposit amount by the number of months you will be in the property and treat it as part of the rent.  If you get some back so be it. No wonder some people leave a rented property and don't give a toss about what they do to it, or the state they leave it in.  It's hardly surprising. 

Beat me to it.

[sungod]

For the future.....It must be a renters market, why anyone is paying 2 months deposit at a moment is beyond me. Offer a month and write it off. If you do get anything back then treat yourself.

[farang51]

Have you contacted the agent? If so, what does the agent say?

[tomazbodner]

49 minutes ago, Promula said:

Thanks for the info. However, this is a condo building not an apartment building. Individual units bought and owned by landlords. Arranged by an agent, and I've never met the landlord, who lives in Bangkok but seems to have got rid of the agent since I moved in. It's a different kettle of fish to an apartment where the owner owns the whole building and you can ask other people what they're like.

 

As a side note, the condo building, facilities, staff and security are fine.  

Maybe you should buy your own condo and avoid all this.

[Promula]

36 minutes ago, sungod said:

For the future.....It must be a renters market, why anyone is paying 2 months deposit at a moment is beyond me. Offer a month and write it off. If you do get anything back then treat yourself.

I think the future is online. No deposit on Airbnb (any problems are arbitrated by Airbnb) and a standard contract as such, again managed by Airbnb. It removes all the <deleted>. It's just a pity that they take a 15/% cut (3% from owner, 12% from renter) which is quite steep.

[onebir]

Judging by my experiences in other places, it's a landlord problem, not a Thai problem.

[Pilotman]

10 hours ago, farang51 said:

Have you contacted the agent? If so, what does the agent say?

haha good one. 

[Orton Rd]

Block the sinks up before you leave, give him something else to spend it on!

[ChipButty]

9 hours ago, Promula said:

I think the future is online. No deposit on Airbnb (any problems are arbitrated by Airbnb) and a standard contract as such, again managed by Airbnb. It removes all the <deleted>. It's just a pity that they take a 15/% cut (3% from owner, 12% from renter) which is quite steep.

Try Booking.com I dont think the guest pays any commission the host does

[Promula]

Thanks. Do they have monthly rates for condos on there? Daily rates are much more expensive.

[tonray]

10 hours ago, Matzzon said:

That sounds like an impossible mission. Better call Mr Cruise.

More like Inspector Clauseau..

[J Town]

It's not just Thais. I've lived in many countries, I give a 50/50 chance of getting my deposit back and usually just write it off in my mind the minute I place the deposit down. The rule of law in developing countries isn't in your favor as a foreigner.

[CrunchWrapSupreme]

10 hours ago, Promula said:

It could also be a nationalist dislike of handing money back to foreigners once they've extracted it from you.

When I got my Covid visa extension a few weeks ago, I put my 2000 baht on the desk as the immigration officer checked my papers. She then quickly snatched it up in her hand, crumbling it up.

 

I later demonstrated this at home for my wife and her sister, with two 20 baht notes. They were shocked. You don’t do that with Thai baht. You know who is on it. But I guess from us, it’s just dirty farang money or something.

 

Anyway, over the many times I’ve moved in Thailand, I’ve never gotten back a full deposit. I’ve gotten every excuse for deductions, or for nothing back at all. Farang money. What can you do?

 

Fortunately with my current landlord and condo owner we have a great relationship. Upon moving in we were able to negotiate a new TV and washing machine. We made sure we got all their contact info, and they could be easily accessed. We found this to be absolutely essential in these terrible Covid visa times, when they were asking for the house book, condo deed, ID cards, and made us redo the contract twice, wanting to see everyone’s name and signatures.

[ChipButty]

7 minutes ago, Promula said:

Thanks. Do they have monthly rates for condos on there? Daily rates are much more expensive.

Contact the owners and ask can they do a deal with you for long term and try Agoda they now do villas and apartments, condos

[Peterw42]

Yes, there are lots of bad landlords who will try and hang on to deposits etc, but there are also a lot of leases in Thailand that specifically state that the tenant is responsible for repairs. Its a buyer beware situation when signing. 

 

[bkk6060]

I have always gotten my deposit back, but i know people who have not.

I would say half the people in this world are dirty and messy, yet have no clue and do not care leaving a place in shambles.

 

The thinking of the Landlord appears is you OP used the freeze and used the aircon creating maintenance issues.

So, it is your responsibility.

Pay the 200 bucks and move on.

[Oldie]

11 hours ago, tomazbodner said:

Maybe you should buy your own condo and avoid all this.

When I lived at rented places I simply called the owner if there was something to fix and he did it immediately (I always had good landlords). Now I have my own condo and I am the owner. Often I wished I would be tenant again... 

[Promula]

Agreed, and there's no way I'm bringing millions of baht into the country to buy anything in Thailand. Plus isn't buying a condo simply a 30 year rental? As it's leasehold.  

 

I much prefer to not have to deal with the management company, pay the building fees, and worry about having to sell it if I want or need to move. I'll stick with monthly Airbnb. Apart from the fees, there are no downsides that I can see. 

Edited October 7, 2020 by Promula

[tomazbodner]

1 minute ago, Oldie said:

When I lived at rented places I simply called the owner if there was something to fix and he did it immediately (I always had good landlords). Now I have my own condo and I am the owner. Often I wished I would be tenant again... 

That I have to agree with you. Although I am on lookout for a condo (just haven't found anything I like - and it's not like you buy one, if you don't like it you just go and buy another one), I enjoy the place I live at mostly for the reason that my landlord is beyond incredible. I don't call them up when something breaks though but just fix it myself. There will be a train station where my place sits in a few years though, so I'll have to move. To my own place most likely, though.