EU summit to say Brexit progress "still not sufficient"

[RayC]

46 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Barnier has failed totally. An EU negotiator coming home with out a deal is a failure.

Whereas a UK negotiator coming home without a deal is a success? No need to answer, I've a good idea what your response will be.

 

46 minutes ago, Loiner said:

 

He says he wants a deal, but not at any price. Not at any price?? So what is the point of any discussions. Sounds like he wants capitulation from Boris, which he isn't getting. He expects getting the equivalent engagement from the UK, which means Frost is not backing down either.

Roll on No Deal.

That makes no sense at all.

 

46 minutes ago, Loiner said:

 

Picture of a man and two women in a train compartment. Very nice.

[nauseus]

8 minutes ago, david555 said:

EU.  Shall never see Barnier as a failure ...

As he stand strong ground not selling out the principsls of the E.U. union to "the  Rules the waves Brexiteers " ✌ ....and i express specially here to use the brexiteers name , as i feel sorry for the 48 % remainers .

 

A leaving group can never have the benefits as before as a member ...4 years told ...endlessly????

 

yes.....endlessly.....zzzzz

 

[Loiner]

Just now, RayC said:

Whereas a UK negotiator coming home without a deal is a success? No need to answer, I've a good idea what your response will be.

 

That makes no sense at all.

 

Picture of a man and two women in a train compartment. Very nice.

The UK has always said No Deal is better than a bad deal. Even Remainer Theresa said that. Nothing surrendered in negotiation is a success.

 

It's the EU saying they don't want a deal at any price. If you can't make sense of that have another think.

 

It looks a bit like Barnier to me. Why would he put a picture of a random man and two women on his tweet?

[david555]

3 minutes ago, nauseus said:

yes.....endlessly.....zzzzz

 

Glad you agree on that we told it endlessly .....and so on for next weeks..months (2...only left ) to come 

Edited October 16, 2020 by david555

[Psimbo]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

 

So why is Johnson allowing the negotiations to continue?

Yesterday was his deadline. Why has he not enforced it?

After all he said he was happy with no deal. 

It was never a formal deadline. To me giving it an extra couple of days due to the EU Summit (which wasn't planned at the time of the 'deadline' statement) makes perfect sense. Its pretty clear though that there will be no wiggle room and its 'prepare for no deal' that seems to be the message coming out of Johnson's mouth.

 

Macron is suffering with  small man syndrome and its his intransigence on fishing that is causing a lot of the problems (how surprising with an election coming up). He's been punching above his weight in a number of areas at the moment and Mutti is probably getting ready to slap him down.

[RayC]

18 minutes ago, Loiner said:

The UK has always said No Deal is better than a bad deal. Even Remainer Theresa said that. Nothing surrendered in negotiation is a success.

And exactly the same sentiment applies to the EU side.

 

18 minutes ago, Loiner said:

 

It's the EU saying they don't want a deal at any price.

And what's the problem with that statement?

18 minutes ago, Loiner said:

 

 

[Loiner]

10 minutes ago, RayC said:

And exactly the same sentiment applies to the EU side.

 

And what's the problem with that statement?

 

No. The EU wants the UK to surrender to it's ongoing regulation. They will not get that.

 

If the EU says they don't want a deal at any price, then they obviously don't want a deal. They only want surrender and capitulation, which is not negotiating in good faith.

[3NUMBAS]

theyre taking the pi55 like they always have been trying to scupper a deal unless uk bends over

 

obviously they dont get the message .like a mexican drug cartel

[elliss]

On 10/15/2020 at 12:11 AM, nauseus said:

If you admit that you made stuff up I'll tell you.

 

 Typical tory reply ...

Full of the brown stuff ....

[elliss]

 

   Cash in your GBP now .. 

   After a wet and damp winter , perfect for Covid-19 , transmission ..

     gbp , will be history ..

 

Edited October 16, 2020 by elliss

[Surelynot]

A Treasury forecast in 2018 found that a no-deal Brexit could knock as much as 9.3 per cent off the UK’s national income over the next 15 years, compared to 6.7 per cent with a free trade agreement. 

 

Win-win?

[CG1 Blue]

3 hours ago, 7by7 said:

 Who is saying that we should capitulate?

 

What all but the most rabid, don't care about the consequences Brexiteers care about is getting a workable trade deal with our largest trading partner.

Your last sentence doesn't make any sense, but broadly I agree a trade deal would be good. But not at any cost. 

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 hour ago, Loiner said:

The UK has always said No Deal is better than a bad deal. (...) It's the EU saying they don't want a deal at any price.

So both parties are saying the exactly same thing. And if that is in fact the negotiators’ mandate, then coming back without a deal is not a failure for either of them. The question is for what party the postulated negotiating objective holds (more) true. 

[CG1 Blue]

12 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

A Treasury forecast in 2018 found that a no-deal Brexit could knock as much as 9.3 per cent off the UK’s national income over the next 15 years, compared to 6.7 per cent with a free trade agreement. 

 

Win-win?

Do you seriously believe these forecasts? Nobody can forecast 15 years ahead. There are far too many variables. Yes you can focus on the negatives and make a case for a possible GDP decline, but it's not an accurate forecast. 

The world changes all the time and that's out of our control. Did they factor in Covid when they made their forecast? ????

[RayC]

2 hours ago, Loiner said:

No. The EU wants the UK to surrender to it's ongoing regulation. They will not get that.

 

If the EU says they don't want a deal at any price, then they obviously don't want a deal. They only want surrender and capitulation, which is not negotiating in good faith.

No. The UK wants access to the single market without any constraints on state aid. Something that no EU member state enjoys. Totally unrealistic.

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, elliss said:

 

   Cash in your GBP now .. 

   After a wet and damp winter , perfect for Covid-19 , transmission ..

     gbp , will be history ..

 

 Typical tawny reply ...

Full of the brown stuff ....

[CG1 Blue]

2 hours ago, RayC said:

No. The UK wants access to the single market without any constraints on state aid. Something that no EU member state enjoys. Totally unrealistic.

But we're not an EU member state. We're a 3rd country like Canada, Japan etc.

 

The only difference between us and other 3rd countries is that we've made untold billions of Euros in contributions over the past few decades helping poorer EU nations to prosper, plus provided intellectual resources and technical expertise for projects like Galileo and EGNOS. 

 

But you think it's right for the EU to treat us worse than other 3rd countries? 

[david555]

(Oh please !..... if only Boris only would make this  formal on paper ....with indelible ink please  ......it is as good as the "walk away" ???? )  

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/10/16/boris-johnson-says-britain-should-prepare-final-no-deal-break/

 

'No basis for negotiations': UK tells EU's Michel Barnier not to come to London for talks 

Boris Johnson says Britain should prepare for final no-deal break as Lord Frost updates EU's chief negotiator on PM's latest statement 

By
James Crisp, 
Brussels Correspondent and 
Telegraph Reporters
16 October 2020 • 6:07pm 

 

UK chief negotiator Lord Frost has told his Brussels counterpart Michel Barnier that there is "no basis for negotiations" following the European Council summit conclusions this week.It comes after the Boris Johnson told the country on Friday to "get ready" for a no-deal outcome to the trade talks with the European Union.A Number 10 spokesman said: "Lord Frost has spoken to Michel Barnier to update the EU on the Prime Minister's statement.

"Lord Frost said that, as the PM had made clear, the European Council's conclusions had left us without a basis to continue the trade talks without a fundamental change in the EU's approach to these negotiations."There was accordingly no basis for negotiations in London as of Monday. "He and Michel Barnier agreed to talk again early next week."

The Prime Minister warned the European Union there would have to be a “fundamental change of approach” to Brexit negotiations or Britain would trade on WTO terms with the bloc next year.Mr Johnson claimed that the UK would “prosper mightily” after embracing a no deal exit on January 1, after the end of the transition period,  but he failed to carry out his threat to walk out of trade talks this month. 

 

more...

 

[RayC]

50 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

But we're not an EU member state. We're a 3rd country like Canada, Japan etc.

Agreed. And that means that we are now an external competitor with all that entails.

50 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

 

The only difference between us and other 3rd countries is that we've made untold billions of Euros in contributions over the past few decades helping poorer EU nations to prosper, plus provided intellectual resources and technical expertise for projects like Galileo and EGNOS. 

Why should that matter? When we were a member, we had full voting rights. If we didn't agree with a proposal we could have made our opinions known (and voted accordingly).

50 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

 

But you think it's right for the EU to treat us worse than other 3rd countries? 

The UK has no 'right' to expect Canada style terms to be offered. Bi-lateral trade deals are bespoke affairs and no two are identical. In addition, trade between the EU and UK dwarfs that between Canada and the EU; therefore presumably, the EU perceives UK companies as carrying a greater competitive threat to EU business, and is unwilling to agree to a Canada type arrangement. 

[7by7]

On 10/16/2020 at 11:32 AM, nauseus said:

Been to most of the above. So what?

As anyone with the wit and sophistication of a 5 year old can understand it; maybe you should ask a five year old to explain it to you.

[7by7]

On 10/16/2020 at 6:21 PM, CG1 Blue said:

<snip>

But you think it's right for the EU to treat us worse than other 3rd countries? 

 I don't think anyone is saying that. Worse than some, better than others, perhaps; depends upon what deal, if any, we finally reach with them.

 

But expecting the EU to treat us better than a member state is unrealistic and totally ridiculous.