alyx Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, Brollox said: My "biff" is with ANY body of influence that supports lies in the first instance. It is the lies that created the dispute between the resort and its customer, and it seems two complete strangers on a forum. Lies are what break down trust in all aspects of society or community. Any form of media that is trying to present itself as an "authority" on any subject needs to ensure first it does not get entangled in an issue that a) It has no jurisdiction over (a social media platform is NOT the law, and b) defend in anyway directly or indirectly an untruth. Well, I hope you are fit because you are in for a long race Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brollox Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 On 11/17/2020 at 3:24 PM, mark131v said: No he was stating an opinion and there is only one person on the planet who knows if it's a lie and that's Barnes You don't know the facts you only have an opinion and that is a fact!! Well the fact is he retracted his complaint and apologised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brollox Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, alyx said: Well, I hope you are fit because you are in for a long race Always Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark131v Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 2 minutes ago, Brollox said: Well the fact is he retracted his complaint and apologised. Quite... Wasn't that the one the NY Times described as reminiscent of a forced confession.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brollox Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 1 minute ago, mark131v said: Quite... Wasn't that the one the NY Times described as reminiscent of a forced confession.. Well thats the NY Times for ya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark131v Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Just now, Brollox said: Well thats the NY Times for ya Did you read the apology? rhetorical question I already know the answer but you should it certainly wasn't drafted by Barnes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brollox Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 Just now, mark131v said: Did you read the apology? rhetorical question I already know the answer but you should it certainly wasn't drafted by Barnes... Opinion or fact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 8 minutes ago, Brollox said: Always ... Said the unprepared traveler before starting his journey towards the unknown...but quite honorable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark131v Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Brollox said: Opinion or fact? There you go I will save you looking then you can make your decision on who wrote what, any hoo I believe they got all exposure they deserve but at least they made him grovel, that's the main thing!!! Oh incidentally all of this was enacted whilst he was facing mounting legal fees and whilst his passport would have been seized by the RTP so I would have said whatever they wanted, right or wrong then pick my time to get back at them.. This statement was issued whilst he was looking down the barrel of a 2 year stretch in a third world jail around the table with Thai police and the local high and mighty after already being banged up for a couple of nights, not under too much intimidation: Through an interpreter Mr Barnes thanked the hotel and the police for accepting his sincere apology. He was happy to issue it. But it was not a casual "sorry" - it came with a four point document outlining what Mr Barnes must do for the hotel to drop the case: He promised: 1. To issue a heartfelt and full apology to the hotel and staff and issue copies with the reasons for his actions to the following media: CNN, ABC, the Daily Mail, BBC, Insider, The Morning Call, The Sun, CBS, the Independent, NBC, Fox, Reuters, the New York Times, the Guardian, the Bangkok Post and AFP stating: "I, Mr Barnes, am sorry for lying in my review that defamed the hotel". He further promised to address untrue comments and slurs that he made regarding slavery, the nationaity of staff and coronavirus (things that he repeated many, many times, according to the document). The statement continued: "Nothing about my reviews was true at all". He admitted to getting 'carried away" and accepted that he was totally in the wrong and had expressed this to the hotel. As part of this section of the agreement the hotel agreed to accept his apology, thank him for it and drop the case. All this was to be conveyed to the media. 2. He must issue a letter of apology to the Trat branch of the TAT apologizing for damaging tourism in the province. 3. He must contact the Embassy of the United States with the truth of the matter. 4. He must contact Trip Advisor about his wrong doing and why he was prosecuted in Thailand. He must ask them to remove a "Red Badge" from the Sea View page and seek assurances from Trip Advisor that they will not advise guests to avoid the hotel. The settlement further said that Mr Barnes agrees to enact points 1-4 by the end of this month after which the hotel will remove its petition for defamation with the court. Mr Barnes gave no further comment to the media, saying they should use any comments from the written agreement. Edited November 18, 2020 by mark131v Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark131v Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 An interesting article wrt abuse or misuse of the defamation laws and whether Mr Barnes was right or wrong to submit to the hotel and give that grovelling apology I have added some stuff from the BBC link from a man who has first hand experience of Thai defamation law: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-54335789 'A law unusually easy to abuse' Jonathan Head, BBC South East Asia correspondent, Thailand Thailand is not unique in criminalising defamation, but the law, which carries a punishment of up to two years in prison, is unusually easy to abuse. I was prosecuted for criminal defamation in 2016 for a report I made for the BBC. The plaintiff dropped the case 18 months later. Plaintiffs do not have to get the police or a prosecutor to file a criminal complaint - they can file directly to a court, and courts rarely reject them. So anyone subject to such a complaint almost invariably becomes a criminal defendant, summoned to court to defend themselves, or subject to arrest if they don't. The defendant will have to post bail, and if a foreigner, will have their passport held by the court and the cases often last many years. They cannot recoup the substantial costs of defending such cases, even if they win, unless they file a separate civil case. The plaintiffs, on the other hand, are not liable to pay costs even if they lose. It gets worse. In Thailand truth is not an automatic defence as it is in many countries. So even if what you have said, or reported, is true, and the plaintiff admits it is true, you can still go to jail, unless you can prove there is a public interest in reporting it. Finding reliable and affordable lawyers is also very difficult. Unsurprisingly, criminal defamation cases are frequently used in commercial or political disputes. Rights groups allege that they are often abused to harass and silence those fighting injustice. One poultry processing company has filed as many as 38 legal cases, many of them criminal defamation, against workers and human rights campaigners who complained about labour abuses. One journalist has already received a two-year prison sentence for social media comments about the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brollox Posted November 18, 2020 Share Posted November 18, 2020 4 hours ago, mark131v said: There you go I will save you looking then you can make your decision on who wrote what, any hoo I believe they got all exposure they deserve but at least they made him grovel, that's the main thing!!! Oh incidentally all of this was enacted whilst he was facing mounting legal fees and whilst his passport would have been seized by the RTP so I would have said whatever they wanted, right or wrong then pick my time to get back at them.. This statement was issued whilst he was looking down the barrel of a 2 year stretch in a third world jail around the table with Thai police and the local high and mighty after already being banged up for a couple of nights, not under too much intimidation: Through an interpreter Mr Barnes thanked the hotel and the police for accepting his sincere apology. He was happy to issue it. But it was not a casual "sorry" - it came with a four point document outlining what Mr Barnes must do for the hotel to drop the case: He promised: 1. To issue a heartfelt and full apology to the hotel and staff and issue copies with the reasons for his actions to the following media: CNN, ABC, the Daily Mail, BBC, Insider, The Morning Call, The Sun, CBS, the Independent, NBC, Fox, Reuters, the New York Times, the Guardian, the Bangkok Post and AFP stating: "I, Mr Barnes, am sorry for lying in my review that defamed the hotel". He further promised to address untrue comments and slurs that he made regarding slavery, the nationaity of staff and coronavirus (things that he repeated many, many times, according to the document). The statement continued: "Nothing about my reviews was true at all". He admitted to getting 'carried away" and accepted that he was totally in the wrong and had expressed this to the hotel. As part of this section of the agreement the hotel agreed to accept his apology, thank him for it and drop the case. All this was to be conveyed to the media. 2. He must issue a letter of apology to the Trat branch of the TAT apologizing for damaging tourism in the province. 3. He must contact the Embassy of the United States with the truth of the matter. 4. He must contact Trip Advisor about his wrong doing and why he was prosecuted in Thailand. He must ask them to remove a "Red Badge" from the Sea View page and seek assurances from Trip Advisor that they will not advise guests to avoid the hotel. The settlement further said that Mr Barnes agrees to enact points 1-4 by the end of this month after which the hotel will remove its petition for defamation with the court. Mr Barnes gave no further comment to the media, saying they should use any comments from the written agreement. None of this changes the point I was making. Surely being forced to apologise for a wrong doing is not wrong too? Thailand is perhaps one of the only places in the world that currently has an answer to the <deleted> some people post on social media that can destroy peoples lives, and yet the vast majority of people think that defamation as a criminal offence is wrong. I don't. And no amount of any bleeding hearts will change my opinion. Social Media is a wonderful tool in the hands of honest people. It's a nightmare and a menace to those who are victims of those who use it dishonestly. As this situation STILL demonstrates. Its interesting that the innovation of social media came out of the "wildwest". The US seems to have inspired this term, and it's still alive and well in the 21st century. The lawmakers got shot down in flames in Victorian times to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpusChristie Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 15 hours ago, alyx said: OMG CC As long as you were arguing about the definition of a jail, I could understand it and it was amusing but, really ...? How can you compare the guest's allegation to a criminal case ????? Please, come back to your senses I was referring to the levels of seriousness about the allegations , the seriousness of the allegations are about the same level Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonnyF Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 Pretty obvious that this guy said exactly what was required of him to retain his freedom and leave the country. Now he's back to the safety of the US, he's sticking the boot in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techno Viking Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 On 11/17/2020 at 8:43 PM, alyx said: and he was arrested before being released.... Well yes, he was arrested and spent the weekend in jail.. the during office hours he fronted court for bail conditions to be set and after bail was made he was released. Surprised nobody has whinged that they should have dragged a judge in on the saturday so this mouthy <deleted> did not spend the weekend on remand !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorpusChristie Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 What would be the outcome if somebody in Thailand took legal action against Trip Advisor , for slander ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 48 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said: I was referring to the levels of seriousness about the allegations , the seriousness of the allegations are about the same level Noted ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 33 minutes ago, Techno Viking said: Well yes, he was arrested and spent the weekend in jail.. the during office hours he fronted court for bail conditions to be set and after bail was made he was released. Surprised nobody has whinged that they should have dragged a judge in on the saturday so this mouthy <deleted> did not spend the weekend on remand !! But, what do you know about the case ( not hearsay ) allowing you to judge this person ? Neither you nor I, will ever know what happened. Hence focusing on the facts: he was arrested for writing his thoughts ( substantiated or not) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techno Viking Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, alyx said: But, what do you know about the case ( not hearsay ) allowing you to judge this person ? Neither you nor I, will ever know what happened. Hence focusing on the facts: he was arrested for writing his thoughts ( substantiated or not) I judge this person on the reviews he posted. Clearly a nasty piece of work he is. Edited November 19, 2020 by Techno Viking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 6 minutes ago, Techno Viking said: I judge this person on the reviews he posted. Clearly a nasty piece of work he is. Isn't, what you posted, defamatory ? Just out of curiosity 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark131v Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 4 minutes ago, Techno Viking said: I judge this person on the reviews he posted. Clearly a nasty piece of work he is. Mmmm clearly... Which one? Review 1 venting, that was removed by TA or perhaps 2 and 3 which were exactly the same or 4 a rehash of 2 and 3 Which part of stating a manager is a bully or that staff are miserable and scared of the boss and just not really that good is wrong? Maybe it was advising people to stay somewhere else as there are better options, yep maybe that makes him a nasty piece of work... I have experienced all of the above at hotels in Thailand multiple times does that make me a nasty piece of work if I tell other people my opinion? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techno Viking Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 1 hour ago, alyx said: Isn't, what you posted, defamatory ? Just out of curiosity Most likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Techno Viking said: Most likely. No worries, I won’t press charges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techno Viking Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 51 minutes ago, alyx said: No worries, I won’t press charges You would need to be in Thailand to do that anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 28 minutes ago, Techno Viking said: You would need to be in Thailand to do that anyways. 555 I have been living here for 28 years ...still alive and kicking...stuck in the city since February Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techno Viking Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, alyx said: 555 I have been living here for 28 years ...still alive and kicking...stuck in the city since February So your not the american in question then, not sure why your dribbling "No worries, I won’t press charges".... I can only assume posing as someone else arouses you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 Just now, Techno Viking said: So your not the american in question then, not sure why your dribbling "No worries, I won’t press charges".... I can only assume posing as someone else arouses you. You would not know the first thing about it but if it pleases you .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Techno Viking Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 25 minutes ago, alyx said: You would not know the first thing about it but if it pleases you .... Clearly you are not Wesley Barnes but thanks for pretending you are and not pressing charges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark131v Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 4 minutes ago, Techno Viking said: Clearly you are not Wesley Barnes but thanks for pretending you are and not pressing charges. Blimey your thin skinned, are you a wealthy Thai by any chance or just a bit dim? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 5 minutes ago, Techno Viking said: Clearly you are not Wesley Barnes but thanks for pretending you are and not pressing charges. You are clearly the vindictive type considering your posts on this thread ...but as I said, if it pleases you, you can keep barking... I am not bothered by the noise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyx Posted November 19, 2020 Share Posted November 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, mark131v said: Blimey your thin skinned, are you a wealthy Thai by any chance or just a bit dim? Maybe a desperate attempt to get noticed ....it’s a miss 555 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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