Chiang Mai Immigration refused to extend my visa

[TheFreqFlyer]

16 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Agree.

I was flying the flag from very start (not just about Thailand) that all governments should make it easy (automatic) for folk to remain where they currently are at least until borders open up. That might not happen until vaccine available.

Yes. Vaccine may or may not happen, but until such time as the transition takes place that allows borders to re-open, which could be the use of a health passport such as CoviPass, or opening up without restriction, or something else entirely they have to remain flexible with those still inside the country. Whatever it is, the borders remain closed or heavily restricted for the time being. 

[Pilotman]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

Your missing the point. I am happy to abide by the "rules". The issue is that many offices make their own rules.

This very thread is about CM not issuing 60 extensions. 

MTT does! Why is that.

that's their rule? 

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, silverhawk_usa said:

It is difficult to understand the OP.  He says "The agency requires 9,000 baht before they will extend it for you. "  I interpret this as the fee paid to a Visa Agent to do the process for you.  Not Immigration.  I could be wrong, but it isn't clear.

 

I think his point is that even though the Op meets the requirements and could obtain is 60 day extension very easily an any other immigration office in Thailand, the Chiang Mai Immigration office requires that he uses an agent at a cost of 9000 baht. 

 

The implication is that the CM Immigration are getting kick-backs from the agents and the Op is forced to pay 9000 baht instead of 1900 baht for something he can easily do himself. 

[ELMqgp]

43 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

I think his point is that even though the Op meets the requirements and could obtain is 60 day extension very easily an any other immigration office in Thailand, the Chiang Mai Immigration office requires that he uses an agent at a cost of 9000 baht. 

 

The implication is that the CM Immigration are getting kick-backs from the agents and the Op is forced to pay 9000 baht instead of 1900 baht for something he can easily do himself. 

you are correct! 1900 sell to me 9000 for extension 30days.

[OJAS]

4 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

The implication is that the CM Immigration are getting kick-backs from the agents and the Op is forced to pay 9000 baht instead of 1900 baht for something he can easily do himself. 

 

And CM Immigration have previous form on little "agent" games of this sort, of course. Remember all those postings on here a few years ago about retirees who were not prepared to avail themselves of agency services at annual extension of stay time having to queue up from the small hours in the hope of getting their applications done and dusted the same day?

[theoldgit]

6 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Your missing the point. I am happy to abide by the "rules". The issue is that many offices make their own rules.

This very thread is about CM not issuing 60 extensions. 

MTT does! Why is that.

 

And there is the crux of the issue, there seems to be little or no consistency in the interpretation of the centrally published rules, it seems that IO's are allowed to interpret the law as they see fit, that can't be right.
I know of at least one country that publishes guidlines to staff as to how to interpret the law, I realise that that country, and probably others, aren't Thailand.

[roath]

21 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Exactly. It's their country and they can do whatever they like. People that don't like it should have stayed home, IMO.

Try getting a Thai girlfriend a visa for a western country for a visit to see what real BS is, IMO.

Most countries have very specific requirements for visa entry, with copious explanatory notes, and (certainly as far as the UK is concerned for example) you can (by and large) rely on their (strictly) abiding by those requirements, which means it is (again, by and large) a predicable system for any person from any country in the world

 

 

 

[vandeventer]

22 hours ago, KannikaP said:

Does the Law not say that the 800k must be in the bank for 3 months, then 50% for 7 months, then back to 800k for the last 2. So why moan about having to show them that you have abided by their Law, whether you agree with that Law or not?

It's not the law you have to worry about it's the fast changes they do. Yesterday I tried to get a retired extension and was refused at CM IO When I went for my 2 month extension they gave me a list of what I had to, and I did just that. They also new what visa I had ,a non o base on marriage and they said I could apply for either retired, or marriage. This was not the case yesterday. It was marriage only and they wanted to see my wife and son, that just came out of the hospital. I said I can't do that. So than I said could you give me a 1 or 2 month extension and they said no. Now I got 9 days to leave the country.

 

[darrendsd]

9 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

It's not the law you have to worry about it's the fast changes they do. Yesterday I tried to get a retired extension and was refused at CM IO When I went for my 2 month extension they gave me a list of what I had to, and I did just that. They also new what visa I had ,a non o base on marriage and they said I could apply for either retired, or marriage. This was not the case yesterday. It was marriage only and they wanted to see my wife and son, that just came out of the hospital. I said I can't do that. So than I said could you give me a 1 or 2 month extension and they said no. Now I got 9 days to leave the country.

 

 

If you were to apply for a retirement extension with all the required paperwork I don't see how they could refuse your application

 

It's up to you to decide what visa you wish to apply for

 

 

[VocalNeal]

21 hours ago, darrendsd said:

The point being that some Immigration make their own rules up

 

I believe the expression is " At the discretion of the Imm. Officer" I believe it is the same in most countries.

[Boomer6969]

22 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

For some it's a many hour round trip.

The dreadful gap in our "office hours" that is required for the extension of our "retirement" stay.

[VocalNeal]

20 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

The implication is that the CM Immigration are getting kick-backs from the agents

 

No. Tell me this isn't true. ????

[SomchaiCNX]

22 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Exactly. It's their country and they can do whatever they like. People that don't like it should have stayed home, IMO.

Try getting a Thai girlfriend a visa for a western country for a visit to see what real BS is, IMO.

You know why, don't you? They have build up a bad reputation over the years themselves. 300.000.+ illegal Thai in Korea alone. Not to mention all the girls with a "history". Australia, UK and US are strict. Hong Kong will put them back on the airplane right away. The rest of Europe is less strict. Unfortunately the good ones pay for the bad ones. In Thailand it is different they just invent on the spot if they have a bad day.

[VocalNeal]

27 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

When I went for my 2 month extension they gave me a list of what I had to, and I did just that.

 

While I empathize with your situation, may I ask why a 2 month extension? If you have a visa based on marriage surely you apply for a 1 year extension, so you can continue to live here with your family?

[SomchaiCNX]

Just now, VocalNeal said:

 

While I empathize with your situation, may I ask why a 2 month extension? If you have a visa based on marriage surely you apply for a 1 year extension, so you can continue to live here with your family?

Yes the wife should be there as well, this has been discussed a zillion times already. The first couple years are the worst but after 25 years + I'm still not used to it. 

[vandeventer]

5 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

 

While I empathize with your situation, may I ask why a 2 month extension? If you have a visa based on marriage surely you apply for a 1 year extension, so you can continue to live here with your family?

I didn't have the money in the account than.

[OJAS]

16 hours ago, theoldgit said:

 

And there is the crux of the issue, there seems to be little or no consistency in the interpretation of the centrally published rules, it seems that IO's are allowed to interpret the law as they see fit, that can't be right.
I know of at least one country that publishes guidlines to staff as to how to interpret the law, I realise that that country, and probably others, aren't Thailand.

 

1 hour ago, roath said:

Most countries have very specific requirements for visa entry, with copious explanatory notes, and (certainly as far as the UK is concerned for example) you can (by and large) rely on their (strictly) abiding by those requirements, which means it is (again, by and large) a predicable system for any person from any country in the world

 

I wonder whether it is the whole convoluted Thai immigration system which is fundamentally a significant contributory factor in the case of the consistency issues which many have experienced. Most countries issue visas to non-nationals which clearly state that they can enter their country from Date A and have to leave by Date B. Thailand, on the other hand, chooses to operate under an obtuse process based on a visa’s expiry date meaning the latest date by which it can be “used” in order to enter the country and be granted a permission to stay which bears little relationship to the visa itself.

 

And then, we have thrown in, for good measure, the IMHO completely unnecessary and nonsensical complexities of re-entry permits and the need to exit the country in order to obtain fresh visas from embassies and consulates in adjoining ASEAN countries! Not to mention the need for border runs in order to maximise the use of certain visas (eg OA)!

 

Why, oh why, oh why can’t those needing new visas simply toddle down to their local immigration offices in order to obtain these as a matter of course (over and above the limited circumstances in which non-O conversions can be granted)? I can also see no good reason why we long-staying non-immigrants could not get new visas stuck – instead of extension of stay stamps plonked – in our passports every year, with the freedom to exit and re-enter Thailand within the period covered by a visa possible without the need for re-entry permits!

 

And a further benefit, of course, would be that the endless terminological “visa vs extension of stay” debates on here were finally consigned to the rubbish bin!

 

As ubonjoe has reminded us on countless occasions, however, fundamental reforms to immigration processes are hamstrung by an Immigration Act which is now 41 years old. I have lost count of the number of Immigration Acts which have been enacted in my home country (UK) since 1979! On this basis it is high time for a fresh Immigration Act to be enacted here in Thailand IMHO. But, unfortunately, I fear that, in practice, we can go whistle for this to happen in the foreseeable future.

 

[VocalNeal]

43 minutes ago, vandeventer said:

I didn't have the money in the account than.

 

Oh OK. Sorry to hear that. 

[The Fugitive]

23 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Exactly. It's their country and they can do whatever they like. People that don't like it should have stayed home, IMO.

Try getting a Thai girlfriend a visa for a western country for a visit to see what real BS is, IMO.

United States and Australia both very bad from my Thai relations experience.

[bodga]

On 11/16/2020 at 10:49 AM, Pilotman said:

its not a case of being a doormat, it is fitting in with a Third World culture, while acknowledging that unless you have PR, or a longer term Elite visa, you are a temporary visitor for no more that a maximum of 12 months. People seem to wish to ignore this very obvious fact. Fit in or don't, up to you, but I like an easy life and I am prepared to pay a little administrative  grease for it. 

theres a  difference between a  little grease and an armful of  vaseline, but  if you bend  over frequently you'll  soon get shafted  more often

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, OJAS said:

As ubonjoe has reminded us on countless occasions, however, fundamental reforms to immigration processes are hamstrung by an Immigration Act which is now 41 years old. I have lost count of the number of Immigration Acts which have been enacted in my home country (UK) since 1979! On this basis it is high time for a fresh Immigration Act to be enacted here in Thailand IMHO. But, unfortunately, I fear that, in practice, we can go whistle for this to happen in the foreseeable future.

 

And the UK's frequent rehashing of their immigration rules has made for an overall easier experience for visitors to either enter or remain in the UK?

 

Be careful what you wish for.

 

PS: As for losing count, there's have been only four changes to the core UK Immigration Act in the past 41 years. Maybe you're conflating the half-dozen or so Immigration, Nationality and Asylum tweaks with core changes?

[Thorgal]

On 11/16/2020 at 9:33 AM, ELMqgp said:

Today I been there, They needed an airline ticket to leave Thailand and a letter from  the consulate.

Don't waste your time going over there, please just go to another immigration office for an extension.

The agency requires 9,000 baht before they will extend it for you.

 

Which type of visa do you wish to extend ?

 

What letter do you need from your consulate ?

 

Did the CM-IO asked explicitly to go to a visa agent ?

[vandeventer]

On 11/17/2020 at 9:23 AM, darrendsd said:

 

If you were to apply for a retirement extension with all the required paperwork I don't see how they could refuse your application

 

It's up to you to decide what visa you wish to apply for

 

 

I went to a agent today, and they said the problem why they didn't give me the retirement visa was because I got my marriage visa from a embassy. Savannakhet and not from within Thailand. So they can change it, we will see next week as I go in again.

[NanLaew]

On 11/16/2020 at 5:38 PM, theoldgit said:

 

And there is the crux of the issue, there seems to be little or no consistency in the interpretation of the centrally published rules, it seems that IO's are allowed to interpret the law as they see fit, that can't be right.
I know of at least one country that publishes guidlines to staff as to how to interpret the law, I realise that that country, and probably others, aren't Thailand.

When the centrally published rules persistently contain the deceptively innocent term "at the immigration officer's discretion",  it's pretty much seen as a blank check, especially at the offices with a high concentrations of foreigners with more money than sense. If that caveat was removed from their legalese, things would probably be be more black and white (and agent-assisted visas and extensions would cost a helluva lot more).

[JacksSmirkingRevenge]

Any recent updates from people who went to Chiang Mai?

[SteezyP]

25 minutes ago, JacksSmirkingRevenge said:

Any recent updates from people who went to Chiang Mai?

 

I doubt there'll be any updates because the IO has been closed for the last two days for public holidays.

 

I'm in CM myself and eager to know what I'll need to do to get an extension. I emailed a local visa agent yesterday who have been helpful with free information in the past. They weren't aware that CM IO was refusing extensions and said they'd look into it and get back to me on Monday.

[CorpusChristie]

I went to CM immigration today to do my 90 report and the TM30 .

I asked the woman I.O at the info counter what I needed to do .

She looked at my visa and told me to go to BKK  get the extension  there , because thats where my visa was issued .

  I told her that I didnt want an extension , once again she told me to go to BKK as they couldnt do it there .

  I told her that I just wanted to do a 90 day report and the TM30

"Go to BKK " she said again .

I already have go the extension done and she could see it in my PP.

It was either genuine misunderstanding , or she wanted me to go to BKK , miffed because I got a expensive visa from there and dint get a form filled out visa from CM .

  Went around the corner and got my 90 day report and TM30 done