Britain to ban new petrol cars by 2030 on road to net zero emissions

[Susco]

24 minutes ago, Salerno said:

 

Luckily the article is about the UK 

And we are in Thailand, where electricity is different from the rest of the world

[AlfHuy]

12 hours ago, steve187 said:

never going to happen, the cost is unaffordable, the batteries are not up to the job, the where is all the electric going to come from, boris will be long gone and a distant memory in 2030

I've got a solar panel on the rear of my pick-up.

[placeholder]

34 minutes ago, Inepto Cracy said:

My two cents worth here. I have recently bought a Toyota Hybrid and an MG Hybrid. The Toyota has batteries and a petrol motor for charging up the batteries when they get low.

Now the MG on the other hand has a lot of other hidden expenses which must be taken into consideration after you have bought the vehicle. This vehicle needs an outside 3 phase charging point, for overnight charging of its batteries. The vehicle also has a turbo charged petrol engine for charging while traveling.

Now to change your home from single phase to 3 phase is a costly exercise.

The tranformer/s outside supplying your village must be upgraded. Your village power lines (all) have to be upgraded. Then your home lines have to be upgraded from 2 strand wire to 4 strand wire to be able to carry the 3 phase load. Then your house wiring may have to be redone to ensure safety, yes told "safety" by the PEA official.

However doing some reading on this process, it does seem that your household electricity bill will reduce, and also, 3 phase is much more stable the single phase.

So getting the Thai buyers to be able to afford these extra costs, may come at a more severe price, more power stations needed.

Not only is the vehicle an MG but it's also a hybrid so not relevant much to the future of EV's. Teslas can be charged either asingle phase or a 3 phase system.

[ivor bigun]

2 hours ago, placeholder said:

Thank you for sharing with us your informed and enlightening opinion.

no problem ,my guesses are as good as yours i am sure

[stevenl]

1 minute ago, ivor bigun said:

no problem ,my guesses are as good as yours i am sure

Well, at least he has an argument. 

[placeholder]

2 hours ago, ivor bigun said:

no problem ,my guesses are as good as yours i am sure

 

And you've provided no evidence to back uo this assertion either. Whereas if you look back at some of my posts you'll see I've provided plenty. In other words my contentions are based on evidence and yours are based on nothing. 

[johnnybangkok]

I see the naysayers are out in force on this one. 

Like all of these matters, this is just one step towards a total solution to climate change and will of course see other countries lagging behind and unable to adopt BUT if enough countries who can adopt do so (see big economies/big contributors to climate change) then of course the difference will be significent.

The technology will catch up as it pretty much has done throughout the last 100 years on any major initiative instigated (oil to electricity, elctricity for some to electricity for everyone, computers for big business to computers for everyone). Where there is a dictate, science and business will follow. 

Both this and the other UK energy initiatives should be applauded and adopted as much as possible. 

[JonnyF]

I hope this doesn't apply to motorcycles as well, or 2029 will be a very expensive year for me ????.

[blackcab]

4 hours ago, Darksidedude said:

ha ha wont happen big oil will step in 

 

Quote

Shell has launched a broad review of its business aimed at cutting costs as it prepares to restructure its operations by shrinking its oil and gas business and expand its renewables and power division.

 

 

[bill014]

One of the biggest factors, which Boris seems to have missed, is how will the National Grid cope? Not only will petrol/diesel cars be phased out, so will gas. This means that EVERY home will be electric only, as new homes will not be allowed to install gas cookers/central heating nor boilers. There are approximately 37 million vehicles on the road at present. If they all charge at the same time, darkness!!

One other factor. Nobody here has mentioned HGVs. Their batteries will have to have enormous capacity to pull 44 tons of freight and will take hours to recharge. That vehicle's downtime cost will certainly be passed on to the consumer.

[tyga]

1 hour ago, bill014 said:

One of the biggest factors, which Boris seems to have missed, is how will the National Grid cope? Not only will petrol/diesel cars be phased out, so will gas. This means that EVERY home will be electric only, as new homes will not be allowed to install gas cookers/central heating nor boilers. There are approximately 37 million vehicles on the road at present. If they all charge at the same time, darkness!!

One other factor. Nobody here has mentioned HGVs. Their batteries will have to have enormous capacity to pull 44 tons of freight and will take hours to recharge. That vehicle's downtime cost will certainly be passed on to the consumer.

you really think he 'missed' this and nobody would have mentioned this to him? Best you let him know...  Now think about if more homes have solar panels and battery storage and the whole thing is linked up in a smart grid... Correct, the article did not mention HGVs but his 10 point plan does if you read it on the govt website. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pm-outlines-his-ten-point-plan-for-a-green-industrial-revolution-for-250000-jobs?They don't have a date for that but he does have in his 10 plans one of themfor finding carbon neutral fuels for difficult to switch industries such as shipping and planes. HGVs may or may not fall into that category. However,  given the fact that we have 10 years it is moving in the right direction and this is the first time I have supported anything Boris has proposed!

[placeholder]

1 hour ago, bill014 said:

One of the biggest factors, which Boris seems to have missed, is how will the National Grid cope? Not only will petrol/diesel cars be phased out, so will gas. This means that EVERY home will be electric only, as new homes will not be allowed to install gas cookers/central heating nor boilers. There are approximately 37 million vehicles on the road at present. If they all charge at the same time, darkness!!

One other factor. Nobody here has mentioned HGVs. Their batteries will have to have enormous capacity to pull 44 tons of freight and will take hours to recharge. That vehicle's downtime cost will certainly be passed on to the consumer.

Tesla Semi

 

The Tesla Semi is an all-electric battery-powered Class 8 semi-truck in development by Tesla, Inc. Two concept vehicles were unveiled in November 2017, and production in 2021 is planned.^[3]

The company initially announced that the truck would have a 500 miles (805 km) range on a full charge and with its new batteries it would be able to run for 400 miles (640 km) after an 80% charge in 30 minutes using a solar-powered "Tesla Megacharger" charging station. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Semi#:~:text=The Tesla Semi is an,production in 2021 is planned.&text=Tesla CEO Elon Musk said,semi-autonomous driving on highways.

[fangless]

How can the UK's so called "carbon footprint" reduction (if any?) make any difference to the World's so called "carbon footprint" if China, India and the African countries don't follow suite?

This is just going to be an economic disaster to the UK and it's residents for the sake of World Stage political posturing.

 

[RayC]

5 minutes ago, fangless said:

How can the UK's so called "carbon footprint" reduction (if any?) make any difference to the World's so called "carbon footprint" if China, India and the African countries don't follow suite?

In itself, a reduction in the UK's 'carbon footprint' is fairly unimportant, but as a 'statement of intent', it is far more significant.

 

I'd suggest that the chances of the EU, and a Biden-led US administration, adopting similar challenging targets has now increased. If this happens, there will be enormous political pressure on China, India and the African nations to come on board. 

 

Assuming that we return to something like normality next year, COP26 in Glasgow might be the place where a major announcement is made.

 

Anyway, what's the alternative? 'Do nothing' isn't really an option.

 

5 minutes ago, fangless said:

This is just going to be an economic disaster to the UK and it's residents for the sake of World Stage political posturing.

 

Why should this be the case (especially if other nations come on board)?

[rosst]

19 hours ago, samsensam said:

 

the thread is about the future, you are talking about the present state of the technology and pricing so your reply is irrelevant

I think you mean that it doesn't match your views, it is still relevant as we are discussing our opinions. 

You may be right, there are large gains in the energy density of batteries and the safer nuclear salt generation is possibly able to bridge the energy deficit in the short term but my guess is that the old vehicles will be renovated to bypass that point. 

I respect your different views and it would be nice if you could show respect for the views of others too. 

[quake]

21 hours ago, fangless said:

More needless pandering to the "Climate Change" brigands with no thought of what the impact on the common working man(or woman) will be.

 

I would love to see how 3rd world countries get their electric tractors to work!

 

China is of course rushing to shut all its Coal fired power stations and immediately stopping all present and future construction of them.

 

It is all Political claptrap.

 

 

 

All very true.

But the real bad boy is the industrial cattle framing that's destroying the rain forests.

but the governments around the world , like the scapegoat oil  is evil  BS for the average Joe in the street.

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by quake

[natway09]

Any stupid politician  (& he is stupid) along with being a ditherer can get up & sprout this unachievable rubbish.He did not even swallow the bitter pill over Covid until 5 months after he should have.

Main Points  :

Only of use if 98% of energy produced in the UK is of a non fossil nature (massive expenditure)

Battery raw ingredients, reliability, life span, & range are 30years away (at least)

Dry battery disposal & recharging is a monumental task (India have been working on this for 14 years & are

still shaking their heads at the enormity of the vast quantities & the pollution created to re cycle

Cost to the taxpayer is unachievable without a 24% tax collection reduction (will not happen)

NZ may be able to achieve this target with their vast amount of Hydro & geothermal supplies of energy but is also capital intensive even for a small population

[fangless]

1 hour ago, RayC said:

Why should this be the case (especially if other nations come on board)?

And when they don't, what then?

It is economic suicide by the UK at this present time.  If China, India and the African nations gave any indications of even considering the so called "climate change" then yes the UK and the rest of the world should follow. 

Piddling little UK's impact both politically and physically is is miniscule.

 

When China announces the halt of all it's coal fired power station construction and closure of what they have already built I will come on board, but not just now.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by fangless

[7by7]

13 hours ago, placeholder said:

Extremely misleading information. First off, what you don't mention is that once a Tesla battery reaches 80%, it automatically slows down the charging to protect the battery.

Second, your figures are valid only if you use the slowest home charging option.

If you use a Nema 14-50 charger and your battery is empty it will take between 8-17 hours to charge your battery.

And finally if you get a Wall Connector it will take between 7-11 hours to fully charge an empty battery.

https://www.solarreviews.com/blog/how-long-does-it-take-to-charge-a-tesla

Additionally if you charge your battery to 80% times are much shorter. And if the battery isn't entirely empty, which would obviously be most of the time, charging time will also be shorter

 

Your link and figures only apply to Tesla; the most expensive option.

 

Whether it's 8 to 17 hours or 7 to 11 hours, both support my argument about the current unsuitability of electric cars for regulars long journeys. 

 

Even more so when the first line in your link is "It can take anywhere from one hour to seven days to fully charge a Tesla!"

 

OK, dependent on model, the Tesla Superchargers can charge a range of up to 172 miles in 15 minutes, up to 80% in 40 minutes. But in the UK I have only ever seen these in some, by no means all, motorway services.

 

Your link also says "Superchargers have an incredibly fast charging speed, but they can put a lot of stress on the car’s battery. So, using an at-home charger is best for everyday recharging."

 

Again, not a lot of use for those of us making regular, long distance trips for work involving hotel stays in different locations for up to four nights!

 

As for cxharging at home, once back there, the length of time depends on the method used:

At-Home Charging Option	Model 3 Standard Range Plus Charge Time	Model 3 Performance Charge Time	Model 3 Long Range Charge Time
NEMA 5-15	3.5 days	4.5 days	4.5 days
NEMA 14-50	8.3 hours	10.7 hours	10.7 hours
Wall Connector	7.3 hours	7.3 hours	7.3 hours

[7by7]

11 hours ago, Boomer6969 said:

You need a shift in focus Mate; form "electric car" to "electric transport". Drive your electric car to the station, catch an electric train to Paris, hire an electric taxi and Zoom your meeting with the California headquarters.

 That may be OK for you office wallahs when all you have to carry are your laptop and sandwiches!

 

But not practicable for those of us who get our hands dirty and have to carry our parts, tools and other equipment about with us!

[RayC]

1 hour ago, fangless said:

And when they don't, what then?

It is economic suicide by the UK at this present time. 

You still don't explain why it is necessarily 'economic suicide'.

1 hour ago, fangless said:

If China, India and the African nations gave any indications of even considering the so called "climate change" then yes the UK and the rest of the world should follow. 

And if these nations don't take the lead then the rest of the world should do nothing, and not worry about the consequences?

1 hour ago, fangless said:

Piddling little UK's impact both politically and physically is is miniscule.

Generally I agree, but as I inferred in my original post the EU are keen to be seen as environmentally friendly. A Biden-led US administration is also likely to be more 'green'. I doubt either would be hostile to this UK initiative, and might well come on back. Politically, the good headlines will almost certainly outweigh the bad and that will be an important consideration.

1 hour ago, fangless said:

When China announces the halt of all it's coal fired power station construction and closure of what they have already built I will come on board, but not just now.

I can only repeat my comment above. If China does nothing then what? The rest of the world stands idly by and ignores the consequences?

1 hour ago, fangless said:

 

 

 

 

[impulse]

13 hours ago, Inepto Cracy said:

Now to change your home from single phase to 3 phase is a costly exercise.

The tranformer/s outside supplying your village must be upgraded. Your village power lines (all) have to be upgraded. Then your home lines have to be upgraded from 2 strand wire to 4 strand wire to be able to carry the 3 phase load. Then your house wiring may have to be redone to ensure safety, yes told "safety" by the PEA official.

 

Or you can get an inverter based 3 phase converter/ Variable Frequency Controller.  Lots of smaller factories use them to drive 3 phase motors on their single phase systems.

 

You'll still be limited by your home wiring.  But keep in mind that most typical days, you'll only be driving 30 miles and won't need to recharge 100%.  Maybe 10%?

 

I also anticipate that 10 years is enough time for some entrepreneurial types to come up with a standardized battery and a network where you can slide your dead battery out and slide a new one in, paying based on how low your trade-in battery is.  That gives you pretty much the same range as an ICE car.  It's already happening for some e-scooters- where they're building a network of battery swap stations.

 

Edit:  I'd add that standardizing the battery configuration would allow for upgrading batteries when technology improves, and would free the consumer from being tied to a specific battery brand- creating competition in aftermarket batteries and networks to swap out batteries far from home.

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by impulse

[CNXexpat]

If the plan and organization will run so well as the Brexit, the ban will not begin before 2080. ????

Edited November 19, 2020 by CNXexpat

[Inepto Cracy]

1 hour ago, impulse said:

 

Or you can get an inverter based 3 phase converter/ Variable Frequency Controller.  Lots of smaller factories use them to drive 3 phase motors on their single phase systems.

 

You'll still be limited by your home wiring.  But keep in mind that most typical days, you'll only be driving 30 miles and won't need to recharge 100%.  Maybe 10%?

 

I also anticipate that 10 years is enough time for some entrepreneurial types to come up with a standardized battery and a network where you can slide your dead battery out and slide a new one in, paying based on how low your trade-in battery is.  That gives you pretty much the same range as an ICE car.  It's already happening for some e-scooters- where they're building a network of battery swap stations.

 

Edit:  I'd add that standardizing the battery configuration would allow for upgrading batteries when technology improves, and would free the consumer from being tied to a specific battery brand- creating competition in aftermarket batteries and networks to swap out batteries far from home.

 

My average miles every week day is 80 miles +, so I don't know how much charge the batteries would need.

I let the PEA officers work out what I need, as it is their island and Thailand electricity standards are a bit strange to me anyway. I pay them to supply me with electricity, it is their job to supply it, well not really if you live on the west coast of Phuket. ( See the article of Kamala having a three day power cut.)

One other thing, if you have Comprehensive Insurance cover on your house, beware of not having a licensed and authorised electrician install the system. You could negate your home insurance. Same could be said for the new car warranty if you damage the cars inner workings.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 11/19/2020 at 3:08 AM, steve187 said:

never going to happen, the cost is unaffordable, the batteries are not up to the job, the where is all the electric going to come from, boris will be long gone and a distant memory in 2030

That only applies to NOW. In 10 years they may have solved the battery problem.

I will never buy an electric car, not because I dislike the technology but because they are too expensive, and one would have to be crazy, IMO, to buy a second hand one that might need new battery.

 

If they see sense and go nuclear, electricity will not be a problem..

 

Of course it's all the wrong path IMO, as hydrogen is the way forward.

 

As they don't say fossil fuelled cars will be banned, expect a situation like Cuba where old cars live forever.

[thaibeachlovers]

10 hours ago, impulse said:

a network where you can slide your dead battery out and slide a new one in, paying based on how low your trade-in battery is. 

I'm surprised that hasn't happened long ago for Tuktuks. It would be very simple to have a battery pack under the passenger seat that could be swapped out in 5 minutes.

Of course the disposal of dead batteries would be horrendeous, with dead batteries in the hundreds of thousands.

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, thaibeachlovers said:

That only applies to NOW. In 10 years they may have solved the battery problem.

I will never buy an electric car, not because I dislike the technology but because they are too expensive, and one would have to be crazy, IMO, to buy a second hand one that might need new battery.

 

If they see sense and go nuclear, electricity will not be a problem..

 

Of course it's all the wrong path IMO, as hydrogen is the way forward.

 

As they don't say fossil fuelled cars will be banned, expect a situation like Cuba where old cars live forever.

Love to know what you think the battery problem is. In China EV's are being sold at an unsubsidized price of less than $20,000.

Nuclear is extraordinarily expensive. Far more than gas. And guess what, it actually now costs less to build a new solar or wind power generating state than it does to keep a gas or coal station running. And prices continue to plunge dramatically. That's how drastically costs have fallen. There are now non polluting zinc oxide batteries that cost below $100 per kw capacity to build. $100 is considered the point where storage can outcompete coal and gas.

Anyway, thanks for sharing.

[stevenl]

9 hours ago, Inepto Cracy said:

My average miles every week day is 80 miles +, so I don't know how much charge the batteries would need.

I let the PEA officers work out what I need, as it is their island and Thailand electricity standards are a bit strange to me anyway. I pay them to supply me with electricity, it is their job to supply it, well not really if you live on the west coast of Phuket. ( See the article of Kamala having a three day power cut.)

One other thing, if you have Comprehensive Insurance cover on your house, beware of not having a licensed and authorised electrician install the system. You could negate your home insurance. Same could be said for the new car warranty if you damage the cars inner workings.

What do Thailand and Phuket have to do with UK measures?

 

As for your insurance 'claims', are you talking about UK or Thailand?

[placeholder]

18 hours ago, quake said:

All very true.

But the real bad boy is the industrial cattle framing that's destroying the rain forests.

but the governments around the world , like the scapegoat oil  is evil  BS for the average Joe in the street.

 

Because it's only possible for one class of economic activity to be contributing to ecological damage and climate change? I guess you couldn't be bothered to produce actual facts to support your contention?

[quake]

3 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Because it's only possible for one class of economic activity to be contributing to ecological damage and climate change? I guess you couldn't be bothered to produce actual facts to support your contention?

your right. i couldn't

The money is spent elsewhere.

you keep eating your steaks. 

a picture can help.

 

Edited November 20, 2020 by quake