Trump and allies launch new efforts to overturn Biden victory in key states

[onthedarkside]

A post making false equivalency claims between the aftermath of Trump's 2016 election and the aftermath of Biden's 2020 win has been removed.

 

[johnnybangkok]

3 hours ago, bendejo said:

Yes there's the fear of being a loser (which he is anyway) but then there's the fear of the orange jumpsuit.

He's not the suicide type, but he could go into exile.  We can take bets on which country.

 

 

Well it won’t be Orange Free State in SA. 
Maybe Orange County

[ChouDoufu]

5 hours ago, Berkshire said:

Trump just reeks of desperation.  He's been getting clobbered in the courts which says loud and clear that his claims of voter fraud are fake.  So now he's trying to strong-arm Republican legislators to break the law on his behalf.  Why?  He hates to govern, hates the job...mostly (except for the power part).  And he keeps saying he's super-rich and will be happy to go back to his pampered private life.  Why then??  Ahhh, it's the felonies he's facing.  Being President is about the only thing keeping him out of prison.  And this is the guy the GOP wants to be their President?  Sad! 

 

it's less about prison, more about money.

 

he's got about half a $billion in debt coming due in the next 12 months.  his biggest creditor is deutsche bank, and they want to dump him as a client, and sue his pants off if he balks and tries to make a "deal."  they would most likely have to wait another four years if trump can subvert democracy.

[ChouDoufu]

3 hours ago, J Town said:

4. Russia?

 

perhaps a fortified villa in trump heights in occupied golan?

 

no extradition treaty.

[ChouDoufu]

46 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Allegations against Huawei, etc? All have been proven and aren't conspiracy theories. You'd know this if you read the right news.

 

the "right" news? 

 

60 million zealots read the "right" news.

[RocketDog]

5 hours ago, Lacessit said:

The way America is going, we'd probably be better off making pacts with China.

Absolutely brilliant suggestion.

 

Look to China as the global champion of human rights and freedom, prosperity for all. They are free of all the political, social, economic, and military stigma that plagues America. If you doubt that China is the future, just ask the CCP. They already have plans to help your country I'm sure. 

 

Lessening your expectations of and dependencies on the USA is definitely a good idea.

 

Many Americans have questioned paying taxes to support causes in foreign countries for decades. Maybe it's time for America to focus more on American needs. 

[soalbundy]

54 minutes ago, Jeffr2 said:

Allegations against Huawei, etc? All have been proven and aren't conspiracy theories. You'd know this if you read the right news.

Would this 'right news' from the extreme right be the same as fraudulent votes news?

[ChouDoufu]

it appears the idea now is to obstruct the vote recounts, prevent them from being completed on time, then claim the results are invalid simply because the recount is not complete.

 

sure, require state officials to hand count every ballot, then "object" to each ballot as counted, requiring time for each objection to be adjudicated.  just to run out the clock.

 

 

Wisconsin officials: Trump observers obstructing recount

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/wisconsin-officials-trump-observers-obstructing-recount

 

 

Edited November 22, 2020 by ChouDoufu

[RocketDog]

49 minutes ago, Jonnapat said:

From the outside the US is fast becoming a failed state which does not benefit the world as a whole

Agreed. Let America go its own way and leave the world to sort its own problems. The time for depending on the USA to "benefit" the world is over. 

 

Let Americans wallow in the squalor of their backward society and struggle to survive on its meager resources and uneducated masses of unproductive workers. Let them face the reality of how dependent they are on the largesse of the rest of the world. 

[placeholder]

5 minutes ago, RocketDog said:

Agreed. Let America go its own way and leave the world to sort its own problems. The time for depending on the USA to "benefit" the world is over. 

 

Let Americans wallow in the squalor of their backward society and struggle to survive on its meager resources and uneducated masses of unproductive workers. Let them face the reality of how dependent they are on the largesse of the rest of the world. 

Maybe you're being sarcastic?

Most Productive Countries 2020 (worldpopulationreview.com)

[wwest5829]

12 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

The problem is he succeeded already. Roughly 60,000,000 voters seem to think he won or at least he is still in the race. 60 million! Those people won't go away. And it's not likely that they will be any wiser and smarter in 4 or 8 years.

America is a country nobody can and nobody should trust anymore. Maybe Biden will do a good job in the next years. But that does not guarantee that those deluded masses vote again for someone like Trump or even Trump or one of his family members.

The world should learn to live without the USA because they are not reliable anymore and nobody should assume that will change anytime soon.

 

My thought, supported by at least the economic statistics is that the political policies of both major political parties over the past 30-45 have caused increased economic pressure on the working middle class which forms the vast majority of the participatory democracy’s population. With the growth, over the time period of the income/wealth disparity gap we have come to a critical juncture of disfunction. Many of those in the current working middle class were raised in a time witnessing the, at first tremendous growth of the US economic income and now, the slow decline of the paramount economic position of the United States post WW II. For those of us in the “Baby Boomer” generation, we are filled with despair generally at seeing the usual growth of economic wellbeing through our work efforts resulting in less and less retirement age security. For our children, we see little hope, under current economic policy conditions to be able, through their work to afford the housing, access to medical care, access to improving their knowledge skills through higher education. There is justified frustration/anger resulting from the economic stress and this evidences itself through our social stress. Not seeing hope, those who supported Trump in 2016, wanted to believe in his promises to address the needs and clean out the swamp of those who had brought on the economic stress (unfortunately, they did not read/study Trump’s historical background or they would have seen a record of a man far out of his depth to be given such a government position). What alternative was offered by the other major party candidate … more of the same policies that have brought on the stress. Unless the mass of American working middle class citizen voters turn out to support a raising of the minimum wage, instituting a national healthcare program like all other developed democratic countries provide for their citizens, lowering the costs of gaining more knowledge through higher education (benefiting both individuals and American business) and protecting Social Security/Medicare … I predict the madness will continue as there will be no needed relief for the working middle class upon which and hope of a participatory democracy depends.

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, RocketDog said:

Absolutely brilliant suggestion.

 

Look to China as the global champion of human rights and freedom, prosperity for all. They are free of all the political, social, economic, and military stigma that plagues America. If you doubt that China is the future, just ask the CCP. They already have plans to help your country I'm sure. 

 

Lessening your expectations of and dependencies on the USA is definitely a good idea.

 

Many Americans have questioned paying taxes to support causes in foreign countries for decades. Maybe it's time for America to focus more on American needs. 

I think the adage is that one needs a long spoon to sup with the devil. There's no doubt China wants to become the Middle Kingdom again, and put the humiliations of centuries to bed.

Australians have been spending our blood and treasure in support of America's military adventures for decades, and we don't get much for it apart from over-priced military equipment and an alliance of dubious worth. Maybe it's time for Australia to focus more on Australian needs. Much of our export income comes from China, it has kept us from recession.

Realpolitik says Australia functions as a validator of American ambitions, a strategic communications base, and an easy source of income, thanks to our lax tax laws. The US capital investment in Australia is more than any other country has.

I'm not advocating a complete abandonment of ties with America. However, maintaining those ties will be a lot easier if Biden becomes President on January 20. With Trump still there, it's Looney Tunes time.

[alex8912]

7 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Trump is what it is.

But why are all those GOP politicians and (I read somewhere) over 60,000,000 voters still supporting his impossible claims?

He has no chance. And that is obvious. What are they waiting for?

The world laughs about America. What a banana republic.

A lot of Americans laugh about your claim of actually being able to read the minds of over 60 million people. Also the amount of people like yourself that still don’t get it. 

[Jeffr2]

30 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

A lot of Americans laugh about your claim of actually being able to read the minds of over 60 million people. Also the amount of people like yourself that still don’t get it. 

Actually fairly easy to know the minds of Trump’s supporters. They get their opinions from Fox News and other far right media outlets. None of which are very credible.

[herfiehandbag]

1 hour ago, wwest5829 said:

 

My thought, supported by at least the economic statistics is that the political policies of both major political parties over the past 30-45 have caused increased economic pressure on the working middle class which forms the vast majority of the participatory democracy’s population. With the growth, over the time period of the income/wealth disparity gap we have come to a critical juncture of disfunction. Many of those in the current working middle class were raised in a time witnessing the, at first tremendous growth of the US economic income and now, the slow decline of the paramount economic position of the United States post WW II. For those of us in the “Baby Boomer” generation, we are filled with despair generally at seeing the usual growth of economic wellbeing through our work efforts resulting in less and less retirement age security. For our children, we see little hope, under current economic policy conditions to be able, through their work to afford the housing, access to medical care, access to improving their knowledge skills through higher education. There is justified frustration/anger resulting from the economic stress and this evidences itself through our social stress. Not seeing hope, those who supported Trump in 2016, wanted to believe in his promises to address the needs and clean out the swamp of those who had brought on the economic stress (unfortunately, they did not read/study Trump’s historical background or they would have seen a record of a man far out of his depth to be given such a government position). What alternative was offered by the other major party candidate … more of the same policies that have brought on the stress. Unless the mass of American working middle class citizen voters turn out to support a raising of the minimum wage, instituting a national healthcare program like all other developed democratic countries provide for their citizens, lowering the costs of gaining more knowledge through higher education (benefiting both individuals and American business) and protecting Social Security/Medicare … I predict the madness will continue as there will be no needed relief for the working middle class upon which and hope of a participatory democracy depends.

I absolutely agree, 100%.

 

Any suggestions of policies along the lines which you suggest seem inevitably to be met with howls of "socialist, communism" and similar, usually orchestrated by people who are insulated by wealth or status from that lack of opportunity or social support.

 

I remember being amazed a couple of years ago by a documentary film about people whose only access to medical care was when their local National  Guard medical unit set up a field hospital for a weekend and treated them. Yet they still spoke, when interviewed, of the threat posed by "social medicine" as the harbinger of Cuban or Venezuelan style socialism.

 

How can it be either against the interests, or beyond the abilities, of a nation which can send space probes to Mars and other planets, to provide basic medical care to it's people? 

 

I an no socialist, I am an English liberal conservative, or perhaps a conservative liberal (note the lower case - no formal party affiliation) yet it is a great mystery to me!

Edited November 22, 2020 by herfiehandbag

[Srikcir]

8 hours ago, fangless said:

Why are you insulting T-U-R-D's? 

They at least serve a useful function in life!

Usefull only on their way out.

[Srikcir]

Federal Judge threw out the Pennsylvania lawsuit.

Tired of losing Trump?

[herfiehandbag]

8 hours ago, fangless said:

Why are you insulting T-U-R-D's? 

They at least serve a useful function in life!

 

5 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Usefull only on their way out.

It is said that you cannot polish one, but it appears that you can colour one orange!

[OneMoreFarang]

45 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

A lot of Americans laugh about your claim of actually being able to read the minds of over 60 million people. Also the amount of people like yourself that still don’t get it. 

About 70 million people voted for Trump this time. How many of them think Trump won and how many think he lost and how many can't make up their mind? If these people would look at reality then they must realize Trump lost. That's it. Accept it. Maybe try again in 4 years. And if these people care about the USA, which they pretend they do, they should be interested in a smooth transition. 

Now let's look at reality. How many GOP members or GOP politicians even try to convince Trump that the race is over. You lost, accept it, at least try not to play the sore looser. Otherwise not just Trump is an embarrassment. The whole word does not only laugh about Trump, they also laugh about all those Americans who still think he didn't lose.

[Meat Pie 47]

14 minutes ago, Srikcir said:

Federal Judge threw out the Pennsylvania lawsuit.

Tired of losing Trump?

Trump campaign’s lawsuit over US election results dismissed by Pennsylvania district court

A US judge has delivered a scathing response to Donald Trump team’s “haphazardly stitched together” case to challenge the US election.

https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/us-politics/trump-campaigns-lawsuit-over-us-election-results-dismissed-by-pennsylvania-district-court/news-story/299cdd03864438686871e02e9b8affe1

[ChouDoufu]

he may have lost, but he still has 60 days to make americans pay for their insolence.

 

 

Trump attends his final G-20 summit but does not participate in pandemic preparedness session

• Major leaders among the world’s 20 largest economies delivered video messages for the virtual session on the surging pandemic.
• Trump did not deliver a message for the event, and there did not appear to be any American presence in the session focused on pandemic preparedness.
• Trump participated briefly in the opening ceremonies of the virtual summit hosted by Saudi Arabia with the rest of the G-20 leaders.
• The president later went to his golf course, Trump National Golf Club in Sterling, Virginia, where he’s spent the last several weekends since the election.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/21/trump-does-not-attend-g-20-event-on-global-pandemic-preparedness.html

 

 

latest daily update from the cdc:  192K new daily cases, 1885 deaths.

that works out to one covid death about every 45 seconds.

 

and where was our great leader?

 

_{President Donald Trump waves as he plays golf at Trump National Golf Club in Sterling, Va., Saturday, Nov. 21, 2020}

photo from above linked article.

 

 

Edited November 22, 2020 by ChouDoufu

[newnative]

The whole thing is just totally disgusting.  All those Republicans going along with this dangerous stunt should be deeply ashamed of themselves.  

[ChouDoufu]

america is doomed.

 

Huntington Beach protest targets California’s coronavirus curfew

On Thursday, California Gov. Gavin Newsom announced a new overnight curfew for the state that was to begin Saturday night

 

At a simultaneous rally in San Clemente, Calif., demonstrators were seen gathered around a fire, with members of the crowd tossing protective face coverings into the flames.

 

"Burn that mask! Burn that mask!" crowd members were heard shouting.

 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/huntington-beach-protest-expected-against-californias-coronavirus-curfew

 

*Deleted*

Edited November 22, 2020 by Scott

[Walker88]

The 'tell' that everything 45 and his "elite strikeforce team" of lawyers is a bald face lie is the fact they do not raise in court any of the silly "German server" or "Hugo Chavez" or anything else that dribbled out of giuliani, ellis and powell's gaping maws in their Bizarro World presser from the RNC last week. If they tried those lies in court, they would be cited for lying, held in contempt, and likely disbarred. Instead, they use generic terms like 'fraud', albeit without providing even a modicum of evidence. Judges quickly dismiss them for the frivolous attempt to use the court to undermine democracy.

 

They are careful enough to keep the lies in the public forum, but not foist them out in a front of a judge, who would be quick to punish them for their violations.

 

Sadly, 45's base is so gullible they buy the nonsense.

[spidermike007]

Anything to avoid saying he lost. The American people spoke, and Biden won by over 6 million votes, and over 70 electoral votes. To call Trump a sore loser would be such an understatement. He is showing his true colors. A mutt cannot pretend to be a purebred, without the majority of people noticing he is nothing but a mutt. Let us face it. Without his cash, who would Trump really be?

 

Had he the dignity and the courage, Trump would have said I am a deliberate one term president, and I am handing over the reins to a competent leader. Either before the election, or now. 

 

 

 

 

[herfiehandbag]

43 minutes ago, ChouDoufu said:

america is doomed.

 

Huntington Beach protest targets California’s coronavirus curfew

On Thursday, California Gov. Gavin Newsom announced a new overnight curfew for the state that was to begin Saturday night

 

At a simultaneous rally in San Clemente, Calif., demonstrators were seen gathered around a fire, with members of the crowd tossing protective face coverings into the flames.

 

"Burn that mask! Burn that mask!" crowd members were heard shouting.

 

https://www.foxnews.com/us/huntington-beach-protest-expected-against-californias-coronavirus-curfew

 

 

“With the help of the Wickersham Brothers and dozens of Wickersham uncles and Wickersham cousins and Wickersham in-laws, whose help I’ve engaged, you’re going to be roped! And you’re going to be caged!

 

And, as for our dust speck hah! That we shall boil in hot steaming kettle of beezle-nut oil!” “Boil it?...” gasped Horton! “Oh, that you can’t do! It’s all full of persons! They’ll prove it to you!”

https://www.readstoriesforkids.com/Horton-Hears-a-Who-text.html

 

 

You simply cannot fix stupid!

 

It is admittedly not solely an American phenomenon; but at the moment they certainly seem to be way ahead in the race to the bottom!

[OneMoreFarang]

26 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Anything to avoid saying he lost. The American people spoke, and Biden won by over 6 million votes, and over 70 electoral votes. To call Trump a sore loser would be such an understatement. He is showing his true colors. A mutt cannot pretend to be a purebred, without the majority of people noticing he is nothing but a mutt. Let us face it. Without his cash, who would Trump really be?

 

Had he the dignity and the courage, Trump would have said I am a deliberate one term president, and I am handing over the reins to a competent leader. Either before the election, or now. 

But still over 40% of Americans support that mutt. That is scary. 

[RocketDog]

3 hours ago, placeholder said:

Maybe you're being sarcastic?

Most Productive Countries 2020 (worldpopulationreview.com)

I was of course; many others may not have caught this.

 

I have encountered many expats here in Thailand from Europe and other countries that are very quick to criticize America; for many reasons that are legitimate.

As an American and a strong critic of Trump, I admit to the issues we have. We have a lot to rebuild and repair after Trump, and have made mistakes in the past, as have many nations.

 

What I object to are the wags who are so ready to toss America under the bus, forgetting what it has done to shape the world we have for the better. In particular I corresponded with a Frenchman who reviled America, apparently forgetting who set France free, at great sacrifice, in WW2. The same is true for many European countries in two world wars. As it did for China also; that may have been a mistake.

 

So, I say, go ahead. Abandon America, make nice with China, as one guy conjectures Australia should do. Just be sure you can afford to go your own way so easily.

 

In truth America has vast resources both in its people, in its industry, and in its natural resources. I daresay it can survive without the help of other countries much better than many of them can alone. The EU is largely proven to be a "failed nation" also. I must add that America has been a tremendous influence and strength for the world for decades now, and still have a lot to contribute. Whether it chooses to do so may be a function of how it is treated by others when we have internal struggles of our own.Remember too that it is the American taxpayer who ultimately decides how much funding is available for global aid. Some of us voted for a madman and more of us didn't. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

[RocketDog]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I think the adage is that one needs a long spoon to sup with the devil. There's no doubt China wants to become the Middle Kingdom again, and put the humiliations of centuries to bed.

Australians have been spending our blood and treasure in support of America's military adventures for decades, and we don't get much for it apart from over-priced military equipment and an alliance of dubious worth. Maybe it's time for Australia to focus more on Australian needs. Much of our export income comes from China, it has kept us from recession.

Realpolitik says Australia functions as a validator of American ambitions, a strategic communications base, and an easy source of income, thanks to our lax tax laws. The US capital investment in Australia is more than any other country has.

I'm not advocating a complete abandonment of ties with America. However, maintaining those ties will be a lot easier if Biden becomes President on January 20. With Trump still there, it's Looney Tunes time.

I agree that every country on the planet should strive to be militarily and economically independent. The harsh truth is most of them cannot readily achieve that goal independently, and fair trade and cooperation benefit all nations. If an alliance with America is not beneficial then it should be abandoned. Sooner or later most of the world will have to choose alignment with Western nations led by America, or with China; China is forcing the issue. The devil you know may be much better than the one you already suspect you know. China does not have your best interests at heart by offering to build your electrical grid, manage your ports, and build your telecom industry and your government has twigged to that already.

 

Trump has crippled America, and my history on this forum is rife with criticism for the Americans that elected him. It's not an accident that I retired and got on a plane to Bangkok in November 2016. I am established here, own property, investments, and plan to stay. We have recognized our lack of attention in letting this crackpot seize control of the presidency, but will not be so negligent again any time soon. Hopefully the Republican party will suffer some losses in the midterms, as they richly deserve. America has made some real mistakes, but has the ability to significantly contribute to the world peace and prosperity. It should be clear that a large majority of people didn't vote for Biden, they voted against Trump.

 

The CCP has less scruples than Trump and is blatantly bent on global domination. If America had had that goal it would have already achieved it and China would not be a threat. America soundly defeated Japan and then turned it into a powerhouse of industry; China will not do that with any country dominates. Look at what it has done already for Africa which is on the verge of becoming a satellite nation to China. If America investment is strong in Australia it is all about profit, not about politics. China's interest has nothing to do with money, it's all about power and resources.

 

So use a long spoon, but be careful about who else you invite to the table. America may not be your friend but it doesn't want to gobble you up.

[Misty]

11 hours ago, Lacessit said:

I do not know what the outcome will be. The outside world is hoping this farce will end soon, with Biden installed as president.

I do know one thing. I will regard every American as potentially a corrupt, lying, deluded conspiracy theorist, because there will be a 47.2% chance they are. I also know if Trump succeeds, the rest of the world's democracies will need to forget about America as an ally. The man is a cancer on democracy.

 

By the numbers:  Roughly 80m voted for Biden, 74m for Trump. There are 328m Americans.  There are 47m Republicans (14% of the US population). Roughly half the Republicans (or roughly 7% of the US population) may think Trump should have won, but even that doesn't make all 7% of them corrupt lying, deluded conspiracy theorists.

 

So where do you get your 47.2% chance?