Solar set up for fridge/freezer

[taninthai]

I’m glad you started new section been meaning to get this post up for awhile.

been Messing around with some old panels someone gave me for a year ,but with them being only 40 w and most of our lead acid batteries drained it’s not much use.

old system

 

so now want to upgrade and try to have set up to run a fridge freezer For around 8-10 hours a day,also WiFi router and 800w blender.

thinking panels ,charge controller/inverter and lifepo4 battery set up.

looking for advice on whole system set up .....amount off panels ,reliable charger/inverter Etc etc 

this is the fridge freezer that we want to run in daytime 8am to 6pm we are completely off grid.

thinking possible to do for around 25,000bht?

 

 

Edited November 23, 2020 by taninthai

[Nakdontree]

Why not just clean the panels (could easily increase the output by 50 %), and replace the old battery with a new one? The inverter seems to work ok.

One thing you should keep in mind, no matter if you keep the old inverter or buy a new one. If you operate the inverter near the sea and there is a fan inside the inverter, the fan will accumulate sea salt dust in the electronics over time. In the rainy season with its high humidity this salt layer causes the tiny metal components of the electronics to corrode.

[cleopatra2]

The starting point is to calculate the total power requirements of all the devices and utilities that will be connected to the system.

For example if the fridge is rated at 130 watts. Thus if operated for 10 hours the calculated power will be 10 hours multipled by 130w giving 1.3 kWh. 

 

The next step is to decide how much reserve power is needed for when the solar panels are not producing electricity. Overcast and cloudy days.

From this point you can then determine the battery voltage and capacity and the solar panel requirements taking into account the peak sun hours for your location.

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2020 by cleopatra2

[worgeordie]

Having a chest freezer operate for 8 - 10 hours a day, is no good,

whatever you have in it is not going to keep.

regards Worgeordie

[taninthai]

4 hours ago, Nakdontree said:

Why not just clean the panels (could easily increase the output by 50 %), and replace the old battery with a new one? The inverter seems to work ok.

One thing you should keep in mind, no matter if you keep the old inverter or buy a new one. If you operate the inverter near the sea and there is a fan inside the inverter, the fan will accumulate sea salt dust in the electronics over time. In the rainy season with its high humidity this salt layer causes the tiny metal components of the electronics to corrode.

The inverter side of the Leonics device doesn’t work we using that as a charge controller and the small silver inverter is only good for WiFi router...The panels are about 12 years old 40w power output,way way out dated now you would need 9 of them just to get the power of one modern day panel.

2 hours ago, worgeordie said:

Having a chest freezer operate for 8 - 10 hours a day, is no good,

whatever you have in it is not going to keep.

regards Worgeordie

It’s only going to be to keep drinks in .when we return to busy times we sleep there at night and start generator for electric.

Edited November 23, 2020 by taninthai

[finnsk]

I would calculate the peak power need  (freezer + frigerator + blender + wifi + etc) maybe around 1200 watt, then you have an idea what size of panel you need, if a panel gives 300 watt you will need 4 panels to go off grid, but you can not calculate with the 300 watt at a panel, because that is only when the sun is in the optimal angel at the panel, I would calculate with around 200 watt (on a 300 watt panel) a panel in the day/suntime, so in this simple calculation you will need 6 300 watt panels. If you will charge a battery then you will need more panels. This is the most simple calculation.

 

The freezer blender etc is not running the hole time, if you have battery installation, you can use the battery to the peak situations, take out the blender of the calculation, then you will need around 300 watt + battery charge power, depends on the battery size but lets say around total around 6-800 watt solar panels needed then you will need 4 300 watt panels, still simple calculation.

[cleopatra2]

19 minutes ago, finnsk said:

I would calculate the peak power need  (freezer + frigerator + blender + wifi + etc) maybe around 1200 watt, then you have an idea what size of panel you need, if a panel gives 300 watt you will need 4 panels to go off grid, but you can not calculate with the 300 watt at a panel, because that is only when the sun is in the optimal angel at the panel, I would calculate with around 200 watt (on a 300 watt panel) a panel in the day/suntime, so in this simple calculation you will need 6 300 watt panels. If you will charge a battery then you will need more panels. This is the most simple calculation.

 

The freezer blender etc is not running the hole time, if you have battery installation, you can use the battery to the peak situations, take out the blender of the calculation, then you will need around 300 watt + battery charge power, depends on the battery size but lets say around total around 6-800 watt solar panels needed then you will need 4 300 watt panels, still simple calculation.

Using the solar panels to drive the equipment is not the way to go.

Simply put the equipment should be driven by batteries . The solar panels charging the batteries.

 

Calculate your power requirements.

Then determine battery capacity.

Finally required solar panels to recharge the batteries.

[finnsk]

The aprox costs for a off grid battery "1200 watt solarpanel" installation is: panels 4*4000 - 16000 baht, battery for solar panel use min. 6-8000 baht, inverter/controller 6-8000 baht, cables etc 4-5000 baht, installation ? total around 35000 -40000 for a DIY installation

[finnsk]

20 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

Using the solar panels to drive the equipment is not the way to go.

Simply put the equipment should be driven by batteries . The solar panels charging the batteries.

 

Calculate your power requirements.

Then determine battery capacity.

Finally required solar panels to recharge the batteries.

I agree, this is the best way. But it looks to me he was interested in a cheap installation. 

[cleopatra2]

1 hour ago, taninthai said:

The inverter side of the Leonics device doesn’t work we using that as a charge controller and the small silver inverter is only good for WiFi router...The panels are about 12 years old 40w power output,way way out dated now you would need 9 of them just to get the power of one modern day panel.

It’s only going to be to keep drinks in .when we return to busy times we sleep there at night and start generator for electric.

Is the plan to have the solar system permanently on site

[cleopatra2]

19 minutes ago, finnsk said:

The aprox costs for a off grid battery "1200 watt solarpanel" installation is: panels 4*4000 - 16000 baht, battery for solar panel use min. 6-8000 baht, inverter/controller 6-8000 baht, cables etc 4-5000 baht, installation ? total around 35000 -40000 for a DIY installation

The number of panels depend upon the sun peak hours and charging rate required.

For example a single 200w panel would be sufficient if the peak sun hours is 2 hours and a charging rate of more than 3 days required.

 

NB I have not taken into account losses that would be incurred. However simply using 2 200w panels gives a 50% increase.

[taninthai]

Finsk think your estimate costs are way high and bit confusing really,,

this system gonna stay on site panels mounted on roof that gets good sunlight if clear sky from 9am-3pm.

without any calculations i have been guessing probably 3 panels,,,,been looking at controllers/inverters like these

https://s.lazada.co.th/s.XLhO9 or the similiar yellow suoer one.

batteries approx 8000 bht for 100 ah inc bms.

https://s.lazada.co.th/s.XL1T2
 

Edited November 23, 2020 by taninthai

[sezze]

Perfectly possible .

Recommend same like above , 7000 baht , is plenty good ( i need to check if pwm can be in good use with lifepo4 , but BMS will be there ) ,

thats 24V so you need 24V battery

Thats 8 times Lifepo4 , at around 1000 baht each for 100ah https://www.lazada.co.th/products/new-great-power-lithium-ion-lifepo4-32v-12v-grade-a-100ah-ups-battery-i1686100635-s4744416814.html?

just a example.. plenty around .

( mind you, you'll be having tons of extra power for nighttime use since the batteries contain 2.4kW at 80% max ->2kw for 2000 cycles ( can be lot more if taken care , and not depleted 80% ))

 

BMS https://www.lazada.co.th/products/daly-bms-bms-lifepo4-32v-8s-24v-50a-60a-80a-100a-battery-management-system-i1708960176-s4848506043.html?

Solar panels : 2 panels might do the job if they are 400w or higher , there are cheaper options on lazada (300 w for 1900 baht ) .

If you do not go overboard on wires, fuses , mounting ...

i'd say another 2000 baht .

There are other options , making it cheaper , depending what you want . 

[sezze]

Thinking about it , you want it to run daytime only .

The fridge is nothing , any pure sine inverter will do the job . The blender is a different story , so you need a bigger inverter , so the 1 from above still stands .

The batteries however do not need to be so big , since you do not need so much power . Better choose 50Ah or even 25Ah batteries like this

https://www.lazada.co.th/products/lifepo4-12v-25ah-i1402982868-s3589714007.html?spm=a2o4m.searchlist.list.18.62c128c9pOiAiH&search=1

 

need 2 sets (8p)to get 24v so 3300 baht or around 6000 for 50Ah version  , but a cheaper bms will do also like 500baht ( BMS 8s 50a will certainly do )

Solar panels would still keep the 2 panels at around 3000-4000 a piece .

So basically , it all comes down to the batteries , want to run 24h or only daytime . When only daytime , i would think about 2 car batteries , because you only need them for buffering a power surge . Want to run everything for 24h use , go for 50 or even 100Ah , to get everything you want .

 

[Crossy]

12 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

Calculate your power requirements.

Then determine battery capacity.

Finally required solar panels to recharge the batteries.

 

This is the way to do it.

 

Some good advice and links above, a few more thoughts;-

• Go for an MPPT charge controller, more expensive but significantly more efficient than PWM.
• I would buy ready built battery packs with BMS installed rather than individual cells.
• Definitely a pure-sine inverter for your freezer motor's health.

 

[cleopatra2]

14 hours ago, taninthai said:

Finsk think your estimate costs are way high and bit confusing really,,

this system gonna stay on site panels mounted on roof that gets good sunlight if clear sky from 9am-3pm.

without any calculations i have been guessing probably 3 panels,,,,been looking at controllers/inverters like these

https://s.lazada.co.th/s.XLhO9 or the similiar yellow suoer one.

batteries approx 8000 bht for 100 ah inc bms.

https://s.lazada.co.th/s.XL1T2
 

Do you intend to run the freezer every day.

How long will you use the blender

What other devices will be connected

Do you know what the sun peak hours for your location is.

[taninthai]

35 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

Do you intend to run the freezer every day.

How long will you use the blender

What other devices will be connected

Do you know what the sun peak hours for your location is.

Ok our situation got bar and restaurant on beach no power lines,normally at night we run generator 6pm-6am.

due to current situation no one sleeping there so we saving diesal not starting genny.

so need fridge on all day ,blender is to make smoothie only used for a minuit at a time,WiFi router ,small music system and couple of fans.

this is why I going for 100AH. BATTERY and bigger inverter,

think I want to stick to 12v system not really sure why just seems little bit simpler for battery set up

[taninthai]

Solar panels going on roof on left ,fridge and kitchen is on right,,,better to mount everything inverter ,batteries etc on left as near to panels as possible and run out going supply over to kitchen it’s 25 m run.

 

is that correct best option?

Edited November 24, 2020 by taninthai

[cleopatra2]

41 minutes ago, taninthai said:

Ok our situation got bar and restaurant on beach no power lines,normally at night we run generator 6pm-6am.

due to current situation no one sleeping there so we saving diesal not starting genny.

so need fridge on all day ,blender is to make smoothie only used for a minuit at a time,WiFi router ,small music system and couple of fans.

this is why I going for 100AH. BATTERY and bigger inverter,

think I want to stick to 12v system not really sure why just seems little bit simpler for battery set up

The 12v 100 Ah battery will only provide 1.2KWh of power .

I am sceptical if this will be sufficient given the above description.

 

I would recommend you carry out a reasonable detailed power consumption calculation based upon your intended use.

For items like the blender the typical usage will be the number of shakes.,,( example if 60 shakes in a day that would be the blender operating for 60 minutes. At a power rating of 800w this would equal 800Wh)

 

As you can see from the blender example calculation . The blender operating for 1 hour in total has considerable used what is available in the battery. ( 800Wh , leaving only 400Wh for everything else ).

 

 

[scorecard]

6 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

This is the way to do it.

 

Some good advice and links above, a few more thoughts;-

• Go for an MPPT charge controller, more expensive but significantly more efficient than PWM.
• I would buy ready built battery packs with BMS installed rather than individual cells.
• Definitely a pure-sine inverter for your freezer motor's health.

 

 

I like this thread because i've been wondering how much it would cost to build/install a solar system capable of powering 3 air-conditions all night/most night of the year.

 

But then I'm wondering whether it would be, long-term, better to go for a solar system designed to power everything in the house.

 

And it seems there's more and better systems available all the time, good quality, easy for the layman to understand/operate and with cheaper/bigger panels. 

 

Comments appreciated, thanks.

 

[Crossy]

24 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

I like this thread because i've been wondering how much it would cost to build/install a solar system capable of powering 3 air-conditions all night/most night of the year.

 

But then I'm wondering whether it would be, long-term, better to go for a solar system designed to power everything in the house.

 

And it seems there's more and better systems available all the time, good quality, easy for the layman to understand/operate and with cheaper/bigger panels. 

 

Comments appreciated, thanks.

 

 

Probably best to start a new thread, but go in to bat with:-

• do you want to be totally off-grid
• or supplement your power bill
• or a combination with batteries supplying emergency power
• or something else?

 

[Crossy]

1 hour ago, taninthai said:

Solar panels going on roof on left ,fridge and kitchen is on right,,,better to mount everything inverter ,batteries etc on left as near to panels as possible and run out going supply over to kitchen it’s 25 m run.

 

is that correct best option?

 

Shade is the enemy of your panels so survey the south-facing areas that get the least shade between 9AM and 3PM when you should be getting peak output.

 

Put everything near the panels and run mains to your kitchen, if you want lighting too run that at 12 or 24V (on a separate cable of course).

[taninthai]

4 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

Shade is the enemy of your panels so survey the south-facing areas that get the least shade between 9AM and 3PM when you should be getting peak output.

 

Put everything near the panels and run mains to your kitchen, if you want lighting too run that at 12 or 24V (on a separate cable of course).

Yeah I been checking where the sun is and that roof has sun 9pm to 3pm

4 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

The 12v 100 Ah battery will only provide 1.2KWh of power .

I am sceptical if this will be sufficient given the above description.

 

I would recommend you carry out a reasonable detailed power consumption calculation based upon your intended use.

For items like the blender the typical usage will be the number of shakes.,,( example if 60 shakes in a day that would be the blender operating for 60 minutes. At a power rating of 800w this would equal 800Wh)

 

As you can see from the blender example calculation . The blender operating for 1 hour in total has considerable used what is available in the battery. ( 800Wh , leaving only 400Wh for everything else ).

 

 

 Blender maybe only 600 w have to check, not many days we would do 60 smoothie maybe 20 to 30.

 

for now I would say estimates are

charger/inverter.   8000

batteries.                8000
Panels 

cables

cables need to measure and then loom Lazada.

panels I’m sure a whole new topic could be filled....looking at 330w or little more.think just go for 2 to start and add another if needed.

want to get stuff ordered up over next couple weeks so if any one has recommendations of decent panels ,chargers/inverters  aswell as any info on certain stuff/parts to avoid.Welcome to post up.

thanks

 

[cleopatra2]

58 minutes ago, taninthai said:

Yeah I been checking where the sun is and that roof has sun 9pm to 3pm

 Blender maybe only 600 w have to check, not many days we would do 60 smoothie maybe 20 to 30.

 

for now I would say estimates are

charger/inverter.   8000

batteries.                8000
Panels 

cables

cables need to measure and then loom Lazada.

panels I’m sure a whole new topic could be filled....looking at 330w or little more.think just go for 2 to start and add another if needed.

want to get stuff ordered up over next couple weeks so if any one has recommendations of decent panels ,chargers/inverters  aswell as any info on certain stuff/parts to avoid.Welcome to post up.

thanks

 

The issue at the moment is your battery. 

At 100Ah it is on the limit if not in fact insufficient.

Even taking into account the blender at 600W working for 20 minutes ( based on 20 shakes for 1 minute each ) , will require 200Wh.

The fridge at 130W for 10 hours requires 1.3KWh.

This is more than  your battery can provide.

 

Now I accept the fridge is not going to be working at full capacity for 10 hours. However if we assume it is working at 50% it still requires 600Wh.

 

The fridge at 50% and blender making 20 shakes results in a power requirement of 800Wh.

 

This still leaves the stereo , fans etc.

 

To be able to calculate the total power requirement it would be beneficial list each piece of equipment along with its power rating and length of time to be operated.

 

 

Edited November 24, 2020 by cleopatra2

[sezze]

54 minutes ago, taninthai said:

Yeah I been checking where the sun is and that roof has sun 9pm to 3pm

 Blender maybe only 600 w have to check, not many days we would do 60 smoothie maybe 20 to 30.

 

for now I would say estimates are

charger/inverter.   8000

batteries.                8000
Panels 

cables

cables need to measure and then loom Lazada.

panels I’m sure a whole new topic could be filled....looking at 330w or little more.think just go for 2 to start and add another if needed.

want to get stuff ordered up over next couple weeks so if any one has recommendations of decent panels ,chargers/inverters  aswell as any info on certain stuff/parts to avoid.Welcome to post up.

thanks

 

Do you at present time got a power meter somewhere ? If so , you can check 100% what power you need .

Do not only think about 12v system , since 12v also will require higher ticker cables .For example , your blender takes 800W + fridge 130w , combined lets say 1000 watt ->85 amp , while 24v this is reduced to 42 amp . Also , wiring is near the same (except size of cables ), 12v to 24v only requires more batteries in series , 100Ah got 1200Wh power , while 50Ah/24v got the same 1200Wh power .

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On 11/23/2020 at 6:16 PM, taninthai said:

 

For starters try putting them somewhere they are not in the shade.

 

Must be fantastic living by the sea. I'm envious.

[scorecard]

16 hours ago, Crossy said:

 

Shade is the enemy of your panels so survey the south-facing areas that get the least shade between 9AM and 3PM when you should be getting peak output.

 

Put everything near the panels and run mains to your kitchen, if you want lighting too run that at 12 or 24V (on a separate cable of course).

Crossy,

 

can you please share some comments of the development of batteries specific to storing electricity from a solar system.

 

A couple of weeks ago I saw an article on an Australian website mentioning the development of single batteries which are more light weight and need virtually no maintenance for decades and sold at a much cheaper price.

 

How accurate all these claims are I don't know.

 

The same article mentioned improved inverter technology with a much smaller footprint and light weight, and also improvements in hi-tech small total management systems specific to household systems, easy for a complete layman to use.

 

Can you please share your thoughts. Thanks. 

[taninthai]

16 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

The issue at the moment is your battery. 

At 100Ah it is on the limit if not in fact insufficient.

Even taking into account the blender at 600W working for 20 minutes ( based on 20 shakes for 1 minute each ) , will require 200Wh.

The fridge at 130W for 10 hours requires 1.3KWh.

This is more than  your battery can provide.

 

Now I accept the fridge is not going to be working at full capacity for 10 hours. However if we assume it is working at 50% it still requires 600Wh.

 

The fridge at 50% and blender making 20 shakes results in a power requirement of 800Wh.

 

This still leaves the stereo , fans etc.

 

To be able to calculate the total power requirement it would be beneficial list each piece of equipment along with its power rating and length of time to be operated.

 

 

Have checked blender is 400 w we have run this blender of this old System 4 x 40 w panels ‘this inverter and a pretty knackered lead acid battery

 

maybe I’m looking at it wrong but would you not take into consideration that say 10 smoothies made between 8amto 10 am then no more made until Midday so batteries will have had time to charge back up giving full power again...   

blender 400w

fan.    40w x2 =80w

stereo not say power consumption.

15 hours ago, sezze said:

Do you at present time got a power meter somewhere ? If so , you can check 100% what power you need .

Do not only think about 12v system , since 12v also will require higher ticker cables .For example , your blender takes 800W + fridge 130w , combined lets say 1000 watt ->85 amp , while 24v this is reduced to 42 amp . Also , wiring is near the same (except size of cables ), 12v to 24v only requires more batteries in series , 100Ah got 1200Wh power , while 50Ah/24v got the same 1200Wh power .

 

I like the sound of this seems to make sense although pushing battery price up a little.
not planning to order anything for one week ,,,,use this week to try and get list together of stuff to order.

Edited November 25, 2020 by taninthai

[cleopatra2]

1 hour ago, taninthai said:

Have checked blender is 400 w we have run this blender of this old System 4 x 40 w panels ‘this inverter and a pretty knackered lead acid battery

 

maybe I’m looking at it wrong but would you not take into consideration that say 10 smoothies made between 8amto 10 am then no more made until Midday so batteries will have had time to charge back up giving full power again...   

blender 400w

fan.    40w x2 =80w

stereo not say power consumption.

I like the sound of this seems to make sense although pushing battery price up a little.
not planning to order anything for one week ,,,,use this week to try and get list together of stuff to order.

Whilst the blender will consume 40Wh during the 2 hour period it will not be the only device using power.

 

The obvious question is what is the plan when the days have insufficient sunlight.

 

Your question about taking into consideration the operation of equipment and power usage is correct. However the solar system must be able to supply all the energy requirements of the equipment connected.

 

Although you have stated the power rating of the fans you have not given the amount of time they will be operated. To calculate the their power requirements multiply wattage by time using hours as the time factor.

E.g if fan operated ten hours  then 40w multiplied by 10 hours equals 400Wh.

[taninthai]

So this battery set give more power...but high price.

80ah 24v......could spend this amount but I would then be trying to find cheaper charger/controller for around 5000 bht to try and stay in budget

Edited November 25, 2020 by taninthai