Grinding Beef burger mince at home

[Kenny202]

Got an electric meat grinder today and does a sterling job. I did a batch of beef mince. Used Australian Topside, very lean so added around 30% pork fat. I want to keep it free of filler / binder etc so only added salt and pepper. Ground up a treat and great consistency, all the fat was spread evenly through the mix.

 

Cooked a couple of burgers and beef flavor superb tender and super juicy. Only thing I noticed was that while the beef wasn't actually falling apart it, it didn't seemed to be holding together as well as it should. I was just wondering for the next lot what may help here?

 

I pretty much ground it, mixed it and cooked it straight away. Should I have maybe left it in the fridge for a while / overnight to bind? 

 

Should I maybe have mixed or kneaded it for a while? I did do this to get the fat through evenly but only for about 5 minutes/

 

I used the middle sized cutter die.... holes about 6mm (1/4"). Would it help if I used a smaller hole die or use the same one but put it through the grinder twice?

The mince mix didn't look like it was too chunky, just looked normal.

 

I have been using Makro pre packed Pro Butcher mince which lately has been getting worse in every respect but it always held well together in burgers.

Like I said I really don't want to add any binding, bread crumbs etc. Any advice appreciated

[vogie]

I haven't tried beef, my wife won't eat it, but do a lot of pork, make my own sausages, burgers and sausage roll with puff pastry. I use the biggest of the dies, and only once, start using the small die especially twice would make the mince like a paste I would have thought, but I make my own rusk, I sure that is a great binding agent, but you say you don't want to use rusk, fair enough. You do have to mix and really squeeze the minced meat together though.

[Kenny202]

18 minutes ago, vogie said:

I haven't tried beef, my wife won't eat it, but do a lot of pork, make my own sausages, burgers and sausage roll with puff pastry. I use the biggest of the dies, and only once, start using the small die especially twice would make the mince like a paste I would have thought, but I make my own rusk, I sure that is a great binding agent, but you say you don't want to use rusk, fair enough. You do have to mix and really squeeze the minced meat together though.

 

Your just the man I need lol. And on another note I made some rusk yesterday for some sausages I am making today. The rusk mixture worked well, cut it in strips and dried it out in the oven etc. I blitzed it up this morning. Nearly broke my food processor it was so hard! I believe rusk has to be fairly even and granular (fine gravel consistency). I had to blitz mine so long it was a mixture of powder and 5 mm lumps. Just couldn't get it any finer. I was wondering maybe better blitzing it when it is warm and a bit softer out of the oven and drying it further once it is blitzed up.

 

I believe you add approximately double the weight of the rusk in water and let sit for half an hour or so before adding to your sausage mix?

 

 

[canuckamuck]

The mince will stick together better if it is ground finer. Maybe try running a batch back through a second time.

[twocatsmac]

I add one well beaten egg per 750g of low fat ground beef, nothing else.

Mixed in well then bash into patti shape, then between plastic (cut up food bags) and into freezer for 20 mins before transferring to fridge. 

They hold together without all the fat.

Any not being used leave in freezer, they also cook well from frozen. 

I’ve given up adding spices etc to the raw meat preferring to add while cooking or on the bun. 

Edited November 26, 2020 by twocatsmac

[vogie]

1 hour ago, Kenny202 said:

 

Your just the man I need lol. And on another note I made some rusk yesterday for some sausages I am making today. The rusk mixture worked well, cut it in strips and dried it out in the oven etc. I blitzed it up this morning. Nearly broke my food processor it was so hard! I believe rusk has to be fairly even and granular (fine gravel consistency). I had to blitz mine so long it was a mixture of powder and 5 mm lumps. Just couldn't get it any finer. I was wondering maybe better blitzing it when it is warm and a bit softer out of the oven and drying it further once it is blitzed up.

 

I believe you add approximately double the weight of the rusk in water and let sit for half an hour or so before adding to your sausage mix?

 

 

Yes I had the same problem with the first lot of rusk I made, now I don't let it dry out as much, but whether powder or lumps it doesn't seem to harm when mixed in with the minced meat, it still binds very well. I watched a video where the guy squeezed the mixture with one hand upside down he said the sausage meat should stick to his hand.

Are you going to use the same machine to make the sausages?

[Kenny202]

13 minutes ago, vogie said:

Yes I had the same problem with the first lot of rusk I made, now I don't let it dry out as much, but whether powder or lumps it doesn't seem to harm when mixed in with the minced meat, it still binds very well. I watched a video where the guy squeezed the mixture with one hand upside down he said the sausage meat should stick to his hand.

Are you going to use the same machine to make the sausages?

 

No. Did the rusk in the food processor but have a proper mincer with sausage tube attachment. I asked the Mrs to get me some skins yesterday at the markets and she cam home with a bag of uncleaned intestines lol. I believe you can get the proper natural casing in brine or salt at the shops sell dried chilli powder, coconut etc at the markets. Where do you get yours from?

 

Trying to source cayenne pepper too, although hot paprika would probably do

 

Makro wanted 350 baht for a bag of frozen ones lol, and I believe you shouldn't freeze them or they just blow out when you cook the sausage.

[vogie]

10 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

 

No. Did the rusk in the food processor but have a proper mincer with sausage tube attachment. I asked the Mrs to get me some skins yesterday at the markets and she cam home with a bag of uncleaned intestines lol. I believe you can get the proper natural casing in brine or salt at the shops sell dried chilli powder, coconut etc at the markets. Where do you get yours from?

 

Trying to source cayenne pepper too, although hot paprika would probably do

 

Makro wanted 350 baht for a bag of frozen ones lol, and I believe you shouldn't freeze them or they just blow out when you cook the sausage.

I don't want anything to do with the natural hog casings, too horrible and time consuming, storing them can be a problem too. I buy the collogen casings, easy to store, no prep needed, very crunchy and cheap to buy, 60 odd baht. Now I've never measured the length of the skins, it does state 14 metres, but I would be very surprised if they were that length.

[Kenny202]

17 minutes ago, vogie said:

I don't want anything to do with the natural hog casings, too horrible and time consuming, storing them can be a problem too. I buy the collogen casings, easy to store, no prep needed, very crunchy and cheap to buy, 60 odd baht. Now I've never measured the length of the skins, it does state 14 metres, but I would be very surprised if they were that length.

 

You reckon horrible. Ones my missus brought home smelt like pig shoot haha, and I think there was some still left inside lol. Revolting. I will definitely order some of the collagen ones you show there. From China or Thailand? How do you prep them?

 

By the way do you mix your rusk with water before adding to the mix? See on you tube they reckon about 1:1 ration water to rusk, and let the rusk soak in water until all absorbed and crumbly. Texture of the sausage probably more important to me than anything. I like them firm, not mushy or crumbly. I think a lot of that may have to do with giving it a good mix / knead 

[vogie]

18 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

 

You reckon horrible. Ones my missus brought home smelt like pig shoot haha, and I think there was some still left inside lol. Revolting. I will definitely order some of the collagen ones you show there. From China or Thailand? How do you prep them?

 

By the way do you mix your rusk with water before adding to the mix? See on you tube they reckon about 1:1 ration water to rusk, and let the rusk soak in water until all absorbed and crumbly. Texture of the sausage probably more important to me than anything. I like them firm, not mushy or crumbly. I think a lot of that may have to do with giving it a good mix / knead 

The beauty of collagen is they are ready to use, nothing to prepare, use them straight from the packet, make sure you order enough though as they do come from China, still only a couple of weeks, but that can be a long time when you are ready to stuff.555

 

I think it all depends what binding agent you use, but 1:1 is ok, if you want to get all techy though here is the correct way.

 

"Rusk & Fillers
Rusk is an essential ingredient in sausage making, used by all professional sausage makers 
and experienced home users alike. Use up to 10% rusk in your sausage to improve the 
texture and bite, it helps bind the fat within the sausage and helps retain moisture making a 
more succulent sausage. 
Other fillers can be used I have often used breadcrumb, crushed cream crackers, Oatmeal 
Potato starch or even a mixture of them all. 
Soak up rate will vary as a rule rusk is 2 parts water to 1 part rusk & breadcrumb is about 1.5 
part water to 1 part bread. 
As for the rest I would suggest 1 part water to 1 part filler."

 

 

This is the recipe I use, having said that I replace the ginger with garlic and don't use the mace

Edited November 26, 2020 by vogie

[Kenny202]

I've tried oat meal and breadcrumbs and neither work good. Sausage just ends up mushy. I am guessing the rusk must be the go or why would anyone go to the trouble of making it. I ended getting some natural casings at the markets. Wasn't easy most just want to sell you a bucket of guts but one lady there did have precleaned salted and they look good soaking now. Also ordered 3 pks of your collagen casings from China. I been getting stuff from China 4 - 5 days lately. Excellent 

[vogie]

14 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

I've tried oat meal and breadcrumbs and neither work good. Sausage just ends up mushy. I am guessing the rusk must be the go or why would anyone go to the trouble of making it. I ended getting some natural casings at the markets. Wasn't easy most just want to sell you a bucket of guts but one lady there did have precleaned salted and they look good soaking now. Also ordered 3 pks of your collagen casings from China. I been getting stuff from China 4 - 5 days lately. Excellent 

Heres some I made earlier.????

 

 

[Kenny202]

So good! How long you hang them in the fridge? I assume you are letting flavors develop

 

I just finished mine and must say I am delighted. Flavor....and particularly texture is perfect. Cooked really firm and juicy. The rusk clumped up even more when it soaked up the water so I mixed it all through and put the lot through the grinder again. Perfect. The skins worked a treat. Cant believe how strong intestines are. I guess they need to function for a long time without blow outs in our bodies. Do you <deleted> your sausages when cooking? Anyway, I only made a couple of kilo to start. Now I now everything is ok make a decent batch next time, and yummy rissoles too. Appreciate your invaluable help so much. 

 

 

 

[vogie]

29 minutes ago, Kenny202 said:

So good! How long you hang them in the fridge? I assume you are letting flavors develop

 

I just finished mine and must say I am delighted. Flavor....and particularly texture is perfect. Cooked really firm and juicy. The rusk clumped up even more when it soaked up the water so I mixed it all through and put the lot through the grinder again. Perfect. The skins worked a treat. Cant believe how strong intestines are. I guess they need to function for a long time without blow outs in our bodies. Do you <deleted> your sausages when cooking? Anyway, I only made a couple of kilo to start. Now I now everything is ok make a decent batch next time, and yummy rissoles too. Appreciate your invaluable help so much. 

 

 

 

Just hang them in the fridge overnight, I have my doubts as to whether I could tell the difference if I didn't. 

You asked "do you ≤deleted≥ when cooking" I am assuming you said pr!ck????, if so no I don't and they very rarely split, I cook them in my air fryer at 200c for about 7 or 8 minutes, but they come out very brown, adjust accordingly.

[Kenny202]

The piece I cooked before lovely, but I must say the texture of the snag was ok, but still a bit soft and crumbly for me. Maybe dry?Cooked it for a good length of time too.

 

I used 1kilo shoulder mixed with 300 grams back fat so fat content should be about right. 100 grams rusk soaked in 100 grams water. Mixed it very well, maybe not enough. I have read its crucial to mix and knead it for at least 10 minutes. Maybe finer mince? I guess looking more the consistency of a frankfurter. Maybe not as solid as that but where it cuts cleanly rather than crumbles when you cut it.

 

I am also wondering if I should have made the mince and the mix and maybe left if in the fridge overnight to bind up before stuffing?

 

Not sure where to go from here? 

Edited November 26, 2020 by Kenny202

[james.d]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

Heres some I made earlier.????

 

 

They look great! And you will know exactly what goes in them.

[scorecard]

23 hours ago, twocatsmac said:

I add one well beaten egg per 750g of low fat ground beef, nothing else.

Mixed in well then bash into patti shape, then between plastic (cut up food bags) and into freezer for 20 mins before transferring to fridge. 

They hold together without all the fat.

Any not being used leave in freezer, they also cook well from frozen. 

I’ve given up adding spices etc to the raw meat preferring to add while cooking or on the bun. 

 Can you please share where you buy the skins, thanks.

[james.d]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

 Can you please share where you buy the skins, thanks.

There is a thread near to this thread on skins, sorry I don't know how to paste a thread within a post.

[Kenny202]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

 Can you please share where you buy the skins, thanks.

 

Can buy the skins most big city wet markets. Thais eat a lot of sausages. You need the skins already cleaned and packed in salt. About 100 baht kilo but a couple of 100 grams will make 100 sausages. Apparently keep for up to 2 years. Before you use rinse well inside and out and let soak in water 2 hours. They are incredibly strong. Just walk around some of the bigger pork shops. Many will try and sell you raw pig intestine, don't buy it. Failing that can buy synthetic skins from Lazada / China 65 baht for 14 m.

[CLW]

Putting it in the freezer usually helps for me

[Kenny202]

30 minutes ago, CLW said:

Putting it in the freezer usually helps for me

 

Most people say not to freeze them, but I have never tried it and I freeze everything. They say it weakens them a bit

 

[chilli42]

On 11/26/2020 at 6:55 AM, canuckamuck said:

The mince will stick together better if it is ground finer. Maybe try running a batch back through a second time.

Agree. 
 

Also understand you don’t want to use any binders but a bit of unflavored whey protein really helps and it’s not really destructive to health.

[lagavulin1]

On 11/26/2020 at 6:00 AM, Kenny202 said:

Got an electric meat grinder today and does a sterling job. I did a batch of beef mince. Used Australian Topside, very lean so added around 30% pork fat. I want to keep it free of filler / binder etc so only added salt and pepper. Ground up a treat and great consistency, all the fat was spread evenly through the mix.

 

Cooked a couple of burgers and beef flavor superb tender and super juicy. Only thing I noticed was that while the beef wasn't actually falling apart it, it didn't seemed to be holding together as well as it should. I was just wondering for the next lot what may help here?

 

I pretty much ground it, mixed it and cooked it straight away. Should I have maybe left it in the fridge for a while / overnight to bind? 

 

Should I maybe have mixed or kneaded it for a while? I did do this to get the fat through evenly but only for about 5 minutes/

 

I used the middle sized cutter die.... holes about 6mm (1/4"). Would it help if I used a smaller hole die or use the same one but put it through the grinder twice?

The mince mix didn't look like it was too chunky, just looked normal.

 

I have been using Makro pre packed Pro Butcher mince which lately has been getting worse in every respect but it always held well together in burgers.

Like I said I really don't want to add any binding, bread crumbs etc. Any advice appreciated

Just off the bat with no burger experience, would a beaten egg or egg White be able to help? 

[hotchilli]

On 11/26/2020 at 6:00 AM, Kenny202 said:

Cooked a couple of burgers and beef flavor superb tender and super juicy. Only thing I noticed was that while the beef wasn't actually falling apart it, it didn't seemed to be holding together as well as it should. I was just wondering for the next lot what may help here?

Depending on batch size you can use raw eggs to help with the bind.

Obviously use quickly or refrigerate.

[Kenny202]

21 minutes ago, lagavulin1 said:

Just off the bat with no burger experience, would a beaten egg or egg White be able to help? 

I've never found egg, egg white etc helpful at all. If anything I think it makes burgers and rissoles sloppier. I must be wrong though because everyone does it

[natway09]

Now back to the posters beef burgers not sausages

1 egg & one handful of fresh breadcrumbs will keep them together perfectly

[chocboss]

go to youtube and subscribe to Scott Rea making burgers,sausages and pork pies, fantastic man

Edited November 27, 2020 by chocboss

[Mister T]

I use good old Thai beef tenderloin, cut it into pieces and mince it up in 1 kilo batches. Whisk one egg per kilo, mix in and make patties about 150 gram. Wrap individually in cling wrap and leave overnight in fridge. Keep a couple in the fridge and the rest goes in the freezer for ron.

[hotchilli]

3 hours ago, chocboss said:

go to youtube and subscribe to Scott Rea making burgers,sausages and pork pies, fantastic man

You beat me to it, watched most of his videos, he's an ex-slaughter house man so he knows his stuff.

Good sense of humour too.

Back in the UK I used to be an avid hunter, everything from rabbits to Reds.. also game birds.
This guy is legit, love his faggots.