owner + province change at local Land Traffic Office for 6200 THB: SCAM?

[Aeiou7]

I bought a used car from a Farang who wasn't the official registered owner, but his friend of the same nationality who was the previous owner was. So the three of us went to the local Land Traffic Office for doing the owner change. There I learned that a province change was also necessary because the car was currently registered in another one. I didn't know when I agreed to buy the car that a province change was necessary as well, maybe the (unregistered) seller didn't know it neither, at least we never talked about it until the officer told us that it was necessary, consequently also to get new number plates. The paperwork was super easygoing, just a few signatures by me and the previous official owner here and there, all forms in Thai only which I cannot read nor understand.

The big surprise was the price: 6200 THB for everything, incl. a very quick technical check which I didn't attend because meanwhile I had to go to an ATM nearby to get enough cash to pay this amount. I didn't get any receipt (strange...) and didn't explicitly ask for it neither but I did ask for proof that we did the owner + province change and was told that I would get everything, incl. the green book, together with the new number plates in a bit less than two weeks. Because I walked out with empty hands I took a picture of the office incl. the officer sitting at his desk from a few meters away, he didn't seem to mind.

So, is 6200 THB for this "business" the normal price or maybe the Farang price and I have been scammed big time??

[Kwasaki]

I've only done what you have with a motorbike but had to pay 6 years back tax and 1 years tax plus CTPL as well also paid for a new book.

I got a receipt for everything and it was about 2400 baht.

[impulse]

I can't imagine walking out with only a promise of pending paperwork and no receipt in case it doesn't arrive.  

 

Like Kwasaki, my thoughts immediately ran to back taxes and penalties and perhaps doubling up on the sales tax because (in effect) ownership changed twice.  Which would all be detailed in the receipt...

 

My suggestion would be to go back ASAP and ask for the receipt.

 

Edited December 7, 2020 by impulse

[Aeiou7]

25 minutes ago, impulse said:

I can't imagine walking out with only a promise of pending paperwork and no receipt in case it doesn't arrive. 

 

yeah I agree that I was a bit naive to accept the explanation that I would get everything later together with the number plates.

Taxes seem to be paid up to date, the car has a year 2564 sticker and I was informed by the officer that next time to pay would be next June, so I guess it's not this. 

[stubuzz]

The age and type of car will affect the price.

[Qualibus]

11 hours ago, impulse said:

Like Kwasaki, my thoughts immediately ran to back taxes and penalties and perhaps doubling up on the sales tax because (in effect) ownership changed twice.  Which would all be detailed in the receipt...

Ownership only changed once, officially.   The registered owner was the only one who was involved in the paperwork transaction/transfer according to the OP.   As far as the LTD would be concerned, the person who was physically selling the car was not the registered owner and could only be involved in the transfer on a personal financial basis with the OP, surely?  There should be no fees for his involvement. 

[transam]

Go back and say...."Sorry, but I seem to have forgotten the receipt for my payment"....

[Aeiou7]

11 hours ago, stubuzz said:

The age and type of car will affect the price.

18 years old Honda CR-V, 2000 cc, 4WD, automatic

-- any idea if this makes it an expensive case and too old for receipts? ????

[Aeiou7]

20 minutes ago, Qualibus said:

Ownership only changed once, officially.   The registered owner was the only one who was involved in the paperwork transaction/transfer according to the OP.   As far as the LTD would be concerned, the person who was physically selling the car was not the registered owner and could only be involved in the transfer on a personal financial basis with the OP, surely?  There should be no fees for his involvement. 

 

exactly!

[Aeiou7]

On a positive note, never ever have I seen so little bureaucracy in a Thai government office, almost unbelievable!

Imagine this at immigration: no waiting time, just give the passport to photocopy, 3 or 4 signatures where they say so on forms and the passport photocopy, pay money without ANY paperwork involved ???? 

(actually the last point does happen to me sometimes at immigration, when asked to pay 2000 baht instead of 1900 for an extension but that's within tolerance)
 

Edited December 8, 2020 by Aeiou7

[Qualibus]

11 minutes ago, Aeiou7 said:

18 years old Honda CR-V, 2000 cc, 4WD, automatic

-- any idea if this makes it an expensive case and too old for receipts? ????

I believe that the price of the vehicle affects the province change fees also, B500 fee per B100k was quoted here some time ago.

[impulse]

8 hours ago, Qualibus said:

Ownership only changed once, officially.   The registered owner was the only one who was involved in the paperwork transaction/transfer according to the OP.   As far as the LTD would be concerned, the person who was physically selling the car was not the registered owner and could only be involved in the transfer on a personal financial basis with the OP, surely?  There should be no fees for his involvement. 

 

Regardless of what happened on paper, you don't figure the DLT guy was smart enough to know what really happened when 3 guys showed up for a 2 party transaction?   It may have even been part of the discussion. 

 

Of course, if there was a receipt, it would all be spelled out.  I still recommend going back and politely asking for a receipt.

 

 

[Aeiou7]

I did go back today, to ask if my new number plates and green book had maybe arrived already. Another guy was there, the first thing he asked me for was a receipt! ???? I told him that I didn't get one when the three of us initially went there (which was a week ago) and he didn't seem to be particularly surprised... I didn't go further into details and didn't ask him neither to give me the missing receipt.

He checked my case based based on the insurance papers that I showed him and confirmed that my "order" should be there this Saturday, that's the same day that I was told last week already. The thing is that tomorrow I'll drive a few 100 km away to another province and will only be back early next week. I was wondering if it was OK to drive further away without any green book, for example if there is a police check or even an accident, but was told not to worry because I still had the insurance papers.

Some forum members commented here about the fact that we were three to go there last week, the old registered owner, the old unregistered owner / seller and me as the new yet to be registered owner / buyer. The old unregistered owner / seller wasn't involved in any official procedures there, he came to the office just as a kind of a guest. Everything official was done between the old registered owner and me, so I don't think that the seller's presence added anything to the cost. The private sales contract was between the old unregistered owner / seller  and me, but this contract didn't matter and wasn't involved in the owner change.

I talked to the seller today about my suspicion that there might have been a scam. He didn't think so but told me that he heard earlier that the LTO actually had "Farang prices" and "Thai prices" for their services. I wonder how official / legal that is... Did anyone else here ever experience this at a LTO? So far I have only seen and experienced double pricing for national park entries.

[jackdd]

1 hour ago, Aeiou7 said:

I talked to the seller today about my suspicion that there might have been a scam. He didn't think so but told me that he heard earlier that the LTO actually had "Farang prices" and "Thai prices" for their services. I wonder how official / legal that is... Did anyone else here ever experience this at a LTO? So far I have only seen and experienced double pricing for national park entries.

In the LTOs where i have been the fees have been written somewhere on the wall and i always got a receipt

What was the price of the car? (Stated on the transfer ownership form or the purchase contract)

For the ownership transfer you pay a base fee (200 baht or so) + 0.5% of the car's value

For the province transfer it's a few hundred baht for the license plates (i think for a motorbike something like 200, so for a car maybe twice this, but not sure) and some pocket change for stamps (because they have to send some papers to the other LTO).

If the car has a value of about 1.1 million THB, the 6200THB is probably correct.

If the value of the car is considerably less then somebody pocketed some money.

[Aeiou7]

30 minutes ago, jackdd said:

In the LTOs where i have been the fees have been written somewhere on the wall and i always got a receipt

What was the price of the car? (Stated on the transfer ownership form or the purchase contract)

For the ownership transfer you pay a base fee (200 baht or so) + 0.5% of the car's value

For the province transfer it's a few hundred baht for the license plates (i think for a motorbike something like 200, so for a car maybe twice this, but not sure) and some pocket change for stamps (because they have to send some papers to the other LTO).

If the car has a value of about 1.1 million THB, the 6200THB is probably correct.

If the value of the car is considerably less then somebody pocketed some money.

Interesting, thanks! 

I paid 138k THB for a Honda CR-V, 2002 model, 2000 cc, but I am not aware of the purchase price being asked and part of the paperwork.
I just looked for the prices of the newest similar models and found prices around 1.3 to 1.5 million THB, depending on what exactly and never same same as mine of course.

Could it be that they somehow estimated my car's new value to be 1.1 million THB or even got this price from an official list? Or is the real individual original price maybe stored somehow with the data of my car and its number plate?

Or should they have based their calculation on MY purchase price of 138k THB, but somehow made a "mistake" without traces in a receipt? ????
 

[jackdd]

8 hours ago, Aeiou7 said:

Or should they have based their calculation on MY purchase price of 138k THB, but somehow made a "mistake" without traces in a receipt? ????

It's 0.5% of what you paid for it, not from the new price.

0.5% of 138k is 690THB, plus the other fees, in total probably about 1500THB.

Unlikely that they made a mistake and calculated from the new price, they do this all day, every day.

When you go there again i would request the receipt, they should at least be able to give you a printout of the data they have in their system.

[VocalNeal]

To change the name and province with no back tax and change over existing tax until April 650 baht.

[Qualibus]

15 hours ago, impulse said:

Regardless of what happened on paper, you don't figure the DLT guy was smart enough to know what really happened when 3 guys showed up for a 2 party transaction?   It may have even been part of the discussion. 

Yes, I am smart enough to figure out that.  What's your point, please?

[Lancashirelad]

Any update on this?