UK, EU leaders to meet face-to-face to try to seal Brexit trade deal

[puipuitom]

8 hours ago, 2530Ubon said:

Now this is laughable. Completely made up, and factually incorrect. I wouldn't expect any better from you Vogie, the man who when faced with evidence, throws a tantrum and either denies it's existence, or say's it's not true. Quite like Donald Trump.

 

There was a court case that tried to sue Boris for lying throughout the campaign, however that case never got started, because it turns out it's not actually illegal to lie your way through a campaign.

 

Which side was duplicitous and was fined for spending more than they should have (by half a million?).

Which side was taken to court over using data from companies that they should not have been using?

Which side compared the EU to Nazi Germany to try and win a few votes? (The EU is undemocratic and resembles Nazi Germany. Boris Johnson made the statement that Hitler and Napoleon both failed to unify Europe, and the EU has done the same.)

Which side famously quoted 350 million pounds a week was going to the EU and would be funneled back into the NHS on leaving? (I'm picturing a big red bus)

 

The former boss of the Vote Leave campaign, Dominic Cummings, admits that Remain would have won without the claim that the 350 million would go back to the NHS. The UK Statistics Authority wrote to Vote Leave during the campaign stating the claim was, ‘misleading and undermines trust in official statistics’. The claim excluded the UK’s rebate, as well as payments received by the UK from the EU. It also fails to take into account the contribution to the Treasury from trade and business that would not be present without the EU single market. The government also has shown no sign of spending the £350m extra a week on the NHS if the UK leaves the EU. 

 

Here are 7 more lies (with evidence) that sent Britain down this stupid, foolish, arrogant, and self harming fallacy.

https://www.shoutoutuk.org/2019/11/01/top-8-brexit-lies-debunked/

 

The facts remain, had the leave team not lied, we would not be leaving the EU. Furthermore, the British people have realised this, and if given a second referendum, would have rejected leaving the EU. It's Boris (An American!) and his cronies that are leading this charge against the will of the British people.

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/

 

 

 

One tremendous advantage: in many countries they forgot the referendum, as too easy to manipulate the public, which is NOT interested to be well informed. Pity for the British, as THEY are going to pay the prize... after 31-12-2020 24:00 h

[nauseus]

17 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

another danger is before the studies : the UK used to be an attractive destination for higher education, research and jobs.

 

• higher education : even the first university years in an average university cost 9000£, the Erasmus exchange scheme does not compensate all of this huge costs and it is not even sure the UK will be in Erasmus in a few weeks. Studies at a university in France is 450€, in Germany it's free. If you want to study in English northern Europe is very attractive too.
• research and jobs : the hostile environnement policy is very very dissuasive 

 

 

All the usual desperados veering further and further off topic now. 

[soalbundy]

8 minutes ago, Loiner said:

Boris was right again, that’s why the euroloving Beeb censored him. 

He was ever an eloquent man, a diplomat with a sharp wit ????

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, puipuitom said:

One tremendous advantage: in many countries they forgot the referendum, as too easy to manipulate the public, which is NOT interested to be well informed. Pity for the British, as THEY are going to pay the prize... after 31-12-2020 24:00 h

 

Please don't shout, I have a headache.

[Loiner]

1 hour ago, Hi from France said:

no the Beeb was fine and it seemed BJ wanted to keep it.. but then he changed his mind and asked that it be removed from the documentary.

 

 

Johnson, like you likes to insult people and then wonders why they do not give in to his demands ????

Even if the beeb doesn’t publish it, we can rely on you to keep bringing it up for our agreement. 

[joecoolfrog]

Despite voting to remain ( purely pragmatic as I didn't want a weak Sterling for selfish reasons and was right about that) I was always supportive of the Brexit result.

However no deal will be a disaster, it will simply inconvenience all of us for another decade , open your eyes , put common sense in front of blind ideaology 

[transam]

14 hours ago, soalbundy said:

That is your problem. People tend to speak of countries as if they were individuals, the UK decided this, France did that, Germany has an efficient industrial base etc. when in fact they are more like a large company with a huge number of employees.

 

There is a company structure with CEO's in charge, corporate identity, the employee has his designated place and is expected to try and achieve the company goals within the framework of hierarchy, it is artificial and has only economic meaning. When the employee goes home the family structure is important, not the company goals, the family structure ie individualism and personal goals are organic and therefore longer lasting and more valid. In, for eg, WW1 a French baker had no personal desire to kill a German baker and vice versa but the CEO's have economic and physical powers far greater than your private employee goals and so the sheep walk almost voluntarily to the slaughter house to achieve the company goals. The CEO can of course go to far and out comes the guillotine, the employees strike.

 

The system though is so arranged that nothing much changes, a new CEO, new goals, a new corporate identity and the sheep are happy again.

 

I am like a shy pony, I won't let myself be ridden, I buck, shake and pull, often to my own disadvantage but here I am, no allegiance, no motherland, no Vaterland but I have a private love of different places with memories and goals that were/are mine, Helsinki where I had an intense love affair, Munich and Fuestenfeldbruck where I spent the best years of my life, Friborg in Switzerland where I had some wonderful companions and smoked my first joint etc. Nowhere do I have a love of a state as such, nor would I sacrifice myself for an ideal, smoke and mirrors.

But I am not, or my family, Gypsies/travellers......????......I am English and proud of it, even though I am a nobody..

[transam]

14 hours ago, soalbundy said:

I see nothing infamous in this, what is the royal family to me, nothing, as far as I'm concerned they could put a pair of Barbary apes on the throne. Why call the queen German, she is British, she was born and raised in England, her ancestors have nothing to do with the matter, go far enough back and you may find your family came from Saxony would that make you German? The English are a mongrel race anyway and eventually we all came from Africa.

I've never been to Africa.......????

[transam]

13 hours ago, Surelynot said:

You are a weird person.

 

I have three degrees and all my children have either an MA or an MSc.....all are, thankfully, leaving the UK over the next 12 months for careers in Europe and the USA.

I have six degrees, and all my children are brain surgeons, so there.......????

But, your post shows that you and your family have no interest in the UK, get UK education then <deleted> off, so I wonder why you are posting here daily about Brexit....?

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

I don't want UK to have a deal with people we have never got on with. 

A no deal is best and the WTO is the way forward. 

UK is better off without any ties at all to the EU mess. 

Looks like Bojo is off to Brussels with compromise in the back pocket.

 

A joint statement on the government website said: “In view of these mutually agreed solutions, the UK will withdraw clauses 44, 45 and 47 of the UK Internal Market Bill, and not introduce any similar provisions in the Taxation Bill.”sues holding up a Brexit trade deal with the EU?

Irish foreign minister Simon Coveney described the deal as "good progress" and said it would "finally provide some certainty on implementation of Brexit protocol in Northern Ireland".

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-deal-northern-ireland-protocol-latest-b1767989.html

[transam]

13 hours ago, puipuitom said:

One tremendous advantage: in many countries they forgot the referendum, as too easy to manipulate the public, which is NOT interested to be well informed. Pity for the British, as THEY are going to pay the prize... after 31-12-2020 24:00 h

What prize, I thought prizes were given....?

[CharlieH]

Reported insult removed.

 

Do not make personal remarks please, keep it civil.

[Kwasaki]

16 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Looks like Bojo is off to Brussels with compromise in the back pocket.

As I said it will be interesting to see what happens.

Today Wednesday 9th is supposed to be final day for an agreement deal or no deal.

[JonnyF]

16 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Looks like Bojo is off to Brussels with compromise in the back pocket.

 

A joint statement on the government website said: “In view of these mutually agreed solutions, the UK will withdraw clauses 44, 45 and 47 of the UK Internal Market Bill, and not introduce any similar provisions in the Taxation Bill.”sues holding up a Brexit trade deal with the EU?

Irish foreign minister Simon Coveney described the deal as "good progress" and said it would "finally provide some certainty on implementation of Brexit protocol in Northern Ireland".

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-deal-northern-ireland-protocol-latest-b1767989.html

 

The reason we are withdrawing the clauses is because the EU have "clarified" that they won't use the WA to block trade between the UK and NI as they had previously threatened.

 

The IMB was introduced as a safeguard against EU threats. The EU have now withdrawn those threats so it's no longer needed. The IMB has served it's purpose perfectly. Well played Boris, well played. 

[sandyf]

4 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

The reason we are withdrawing the clauses is because the EU have "clarified" that they won't use the WA to block trade between the UK and NI as they had previously threatened.

 

The IMB was introduced as a safeguard against EU threats. The EU have now withdrawn those threats so it's no longer needed. The IMB has served it's purpose perfectly. Well played Boris, well played. 

Ten out of ten for imagination.

The UK has backtracked because both the EU and US have said the IMB would make trade deals difficult, possibly impossible.The Trump defeat created a whole new perspective.

The border between the UK & NI has now been "clarified".

 

The side negotiations are separate from the stalled discussions about a free trade agreement, but the EU had previously said the UK proceeding with its plan would make a trade deal impossible.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-deal-northern-ireland-protocol-latest-b1767989.html

[Surelynot]

6 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

 

The reason we are withdrawing the clauses is because the EU have "clarified" that they won't use the WA to block trade between the UK and NI as they had previously threatened.

 

The IMB was introduced as a safeguard against EU threats. The EU have now withdrawn those threats so it's no longer needed. The IMB has served it's purpose perfectly. Well played Boris, well played. 

From the article......

 

"Under the withdrawal agreement, Northern Ireland will enforce the EU customs code, effectively putting controls on trade between the territory and Great Britain". 

 

"Under the agreement, the British government has agreed to withdraw clauses from its taxation and internal market bills that would have breached international law by giving it the power to unilaterally overwrite the treaty".

 

Nothing about the EU having made or withdrawn any threats.

 

Boris is caving in left, right and centre.

 

 

[Laughing Gravy]

19 hours ago, Susco said:

 

Yep many more countries outside the EU, and the UK has a trade deal with them.

 

Here are the big names ???? . I'm sure they soon will add Zimbabwe, Nigeria and Biafra as well.

 

• Andean countries
• CARIFORUM trade bloc
• Central America
• Chile
• Eastern and Southern Africa (ESA) trade bloc 
• Faroe Islands
• Georgia
• Iceland and Norway
• Israel
• Jordan
• Kosovo
• Lebanon
• Liechtenstein
• Morocco
• Pacific states
• Palestinian Authority
• Southern Africa Customs Union and Mozambique (SACUM) trade bloc
• South Korea
• Switzerland
• Tunisia

 

And a few more they are considering, but even may not suceed.

 

Country or bloc	Nature of agreement	Status of discussions	Percentage of total UK trade, 2018
Albania (Western Balkans)	Association agreement	Engagement ongoing	0.00%
Algeria	Association agreement	Engagement ongoing (agreement unlikely before exit day)	0.21%
Andorra	Customs union	Will not be signed for exit day	0.00%
San Marino	Customs union	Will not be signed for exit day	0.00%
Bosnia & Herzegovina (Western Balkans)	Association agreement	Engagement ongoing	0.01%
Cameroon (Central Africa)	Economic partnership agreement	Engagement ongoing	0.01%
Canada	Free trade agreement	Engagement ongoing	1.44%
Côte d’Ivoire	Economic partnership agreement	Engagement ongoing	0.03%
Egypt	Association agreement	Engagement ongoing	0.24%
Ghana (Western Africa)	Economic partnership agreement	Engagement ongoing	0.10%
Japan	Free trade agreement	Engagement ongoing (agreement will not be transitioned before exit day)	2.21%
Kenya (EAC)	Economic partnership agreement	Engagement ongoing	0.12%
Mexico	Free trade agreement	Engagement ongoing	0.35%
Moldova	Association agreement	Engagement ongoing	0.04%
Montenegro (Western Balkans)	Stabilisation and association agreement	Engagement ongoing	0.01%
North Macedonia (Western Balkans)	Association agreement	Engagement ongoing	0.11%
Serbia (Western Balkans)	Association agreement	Engagement ongoing	0.05%
Turkey	Customs union	Will not be signed for exit day	1.29%
Ukraine	Association agreement	Engagement ongoing	0.10%

I can see your knowledge of the world is as limited as your knowledge on how the EU operates. Well done

[Laughing Gravy]

17 hours ago, puipuitom said:

Quite some countries made agreements with the EU. You think they will make a better arrangement with the Tiny Islands with 67 mln inhabitants than with a block of 450 mln ?

Errhm yes its called business. And that is the crux of it all the EU are bricking it at that prospect.

[Laughing Gravy]

17 hours ago, transam said:

I think we all are, one way or another.......

As are half of the US presidents or so they claim along with relatives of HM QE

[Surelynot]

17 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

And that is the crux of it all the EU are bricking it at that prospect.

...and yet all we have managed to do so far is roll-over previously negotiated EU deals (or agree ones that are worse).......can't see the world beating a path to the UK's door and begging for a trade deal that is any different to what they already have with the EU....unless of course the UK fold (as Boris is doing now) and start giving stuff away.

[JonnyF]

40 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Ten out of ten for imagination.

The UK has backtracked because both the EU and US have said the IMB would make trade deals difficult, possibly impossible.The Trump defeat created a whole new perspective.

The border between the UK & NI has now been "clarified".

 

The side negotiations are separate from the stalled discussions about a free trade agreement, but the EU had previously said the UK proceeding with its plan would make a trade deal impossible.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-deal-northern-ireland-protocol-latest-b1767989.html

Incorrect. Even the notoriously Pro EU Sky news have acknowledged how this went down. Previously the EU were threatening to classify everything between the UK and NI as "at risk", this is where all the issues started that led to the IMB to safeguard against such a ludicrous EU position.

 

Not so now. Well played Boris, well played.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/brexit-uk-to-ditch-internal-market-bill-clauses-after-reaching-agreement-in-principle-on-northern-ireland-protocol-12155176

 

[transam]

6 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

...and yet all we have managed to do so far is roll-over previously negotiated EU deals (or agree ones that are worse).......can't see the world beating a path to the UK's door and begging for a trade deal that is any different to what they already have with the EU....unless of course the UK fold (as Boris is doing now) and start giving stuff away.

But you and yours are not interested in what Boris does, because you and yours have bailed out of the UK, you have done your own family Brexit, so why the daily UK trashing..?

[Laughing Gravy]

5 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

...and yet all we have managed to do so far is roll-over previously negotiated EU deals (or agree ones that are worse).......can't see the world beating a path to the UK's door and begging for a trade deal that is any different to what they already have with the EU....unless of course the UK fold (as Boris is doing now) and start giving stuff away.

As you say we. So you are British?  I guess you are remainer who is still peeved that a majority who bothered to vote in the referendum did. So what would you like? I imagine it won't happen, such as rejoining the EU, give our waters and sovereignty away.

 

How about supporting your country for once. Or is that too much to ask.

I hope Johnson tells them top Foxtrot Oscar and go WTO as I don't see him begging. No matter what he does remainers are unhappy. Never mind.

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, transam said:

But you and yours are not interested in what Boris does, because you and yours have bailed out of the UK, you have done your own family Brexit, so why the daily UK trashing..?

Wife is still asleep and not allowed to play my guitar yet.

[Surelynot]

2 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

As you say we. So you are British?  I guess you are remainer who is still peeved that a majority who bothered to vote in the referendum did. So what would you like? I imagine it won't happen, such as rejoining the EU, give our waters and sovereignty away.

 

How about supporting your country for once. Or is that too much to ask.

I hope Johnson tells them top Foxtrot Oscar and go WTO as I don't see him begging. No matter what he does remainers are unhappy. Never mind.

Spot on....Remainer.....and still in shock AND still peeved that we lost the referendum.......(natural emotions for a bad loser)

 

What would I like?... a deal that does as little damage to the "man in the street" in terms of future security, employment rights, wages, healthy environment, opportunity to travel..... to name but a few.........taking back control, taking back our sovereignty, taking back our borders......doesn't pay the bills or really...truthfully....impact the life of ordinary folk....people are just told they do by the Mail, the Express and unprincipled snake-oil salesman like Gove and Johnson.

[2530Ubon]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

The reason we are withdrawing the clauses is because the EU have "clarified" that they won't use the WA to block trade between the UK and NI as they had previously threatened.

 

The IMB was introduced as a safeguard against EU threats. The EU have now withdrawn those threats so it's no longer needed. The IMB has served it's purpose perfectly. Well played Boris, well played. 

Oh dear, how frightfully uninformed you are! Yet it would appear on the outside, to the casual observer, that you know what you are talking about.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/sep/14/brexit-boris-johnson-eu-uk-internal-market-bill

“We are being told that the EU will not only impose tariffs on goods moving from Great Britain to Northern Ireland, but that they might actually stop the transport of food products from GB to NI,” he writes.

 

Here, the prime minister is bringing in an entirely separate issue and not one that is solved by the internal market bill.

In order for British exporters to move agricultural produce into the EU’s single market, including Northern Ireland, Brussels needs to give “third-country approval” to the UK regulatory regime. It is a health check. For example, a country must have a salmonella control programme for chickens to be imported.

The EU has said the UK has so far failed to provide sufficient details of the so-called sanitary and phytosanitary regime for animal and plant products post-Brexit. The UK government says the EU has ample information. Either way, there is nothing in the internal market bill that would resolve this particular dispute.

Critics argue that the prime minister has a habit of not letting facts get in the way of a good story.

 

Why the confused faces JonnyF & transam? It's pretty simple. The IMB was not introduced as a safeguard against EU threats - there were none!

Boris claimed that the Internal Market Bill was required to stop the EU blocking trade between NI and the UK. Nonsense, because they are 2 seperate issues and the IMB would not have solved the issue. The issue was third country approval for agricultural products.

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by 2530Ubon
Some members appear confused

[Laughing Gravy]

4 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Spot on....Remainer.....and still in shock AND still peeved that we lost the referendum.......(natural emotions for a bad loser)

Well it was a democratic referendum. Have you tried therapy.

 

5 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

people are just told they do by the Mail, the Express and unprincipled snake-oil salesman like Gove and Johnson

That's a ridiculous statement. Where is your evidence.

 

6 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

What would I like?... a deal that does as little damage to the "man in the street" in terms of future security, employment rights, wages, healthy environment, opportunity to travel..... to name but a few.........taking back control, taking back our sovereignty, taking back our borders......doesn't pay the bills or really...truthfully....impact the life of ordinary folk

How on earth did the UK cope before the EU. Yes that is sarcasm. How do all the other countries who are not in the EU cope.  They cope just fine. I will bet you that regardless of what happens deal./no deal that the things you mention will continue.

 

I am curious to know your age. I ask as this has a significance on where you get your lack of faith in the UK as a country and reliance on an entity like the EU.

[Susco]

21 minutes ago, transam said:

But you and yours are not interested in what Boris does, because you and yours have bailed out of the UK, you have done your own family Brexit, so why the daily UK trashing..?

 

I guess Ubon is now considered a province of England.

 

Do they have a trade deal with the UK maybe?

 

 

[transam]

5 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Spot on....Remainer.....and still in shock AND still peeved that we lost the referendum.......(natural emotions for a bad loser)

 

What would I like?... a deal that does as little damage to the "man in the street" in terms of future security, employment rights, wages, healthy environment, opportunity to travel..... to name but a few.........taking back control, taking back our sovereignty, taking back our borders......doesn't pay the bills or really...truthfully....impact the life of ordinary folk....people are just told they do by the Mail, the Express and unprincipled snake-oil salesman like Gove and Johnson.

Rather that than those who cuddle up to terrorist organisations, eh....????

But, thankfully they have been deleted, and now their more sensible leader is having problems with the remaining crew..????

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Well it was a democratic referendum. Have you tried therapy.

 

That's a ridiculous statement. Where is your evidence.

 

How on earth did the UK cope before the EU. Yes that is sarcasm. How do all the other countries who are not in the EU cope.  They cope just fine. I will bet you that regardless of what happens deal./no deal that the things you mention will continue.

 

I am curious to know your age. I ask as this has a significance on where you get your lack of faith in the UK as a country and reliance on an entity like the EU.

Therapy is limited to beer, occasional whisky...sometimes red wine and a little Stilton (was going to say Danish Blue or St Agar, but didn't want to annoy you).

 

I am 100% confident we will cope.....but just coping is a failure in my book, when we could have prospered to a much greater extent being part of Europe.

 

I am 65, although the girls on soi 4 say I only look about 50.