UK state pension: Canada and Australia condemn the UK's failure to protect overseas payments

[Chris.B]

STATE pension payments increase every year under triple lock rules and these increases can be protected if a claimant lives in certain overseas locations. Those based throughout Europe will likely see their payments unchanged but certain countries outside this continent have been condemned for letting pensioners down.

 

State pension: Canada and Australia condemn the UK's failure to protect overseas payments

Edited December 17, 2020 by Chris.B

[dabhand]

Now, if the noted condemnation were to manifest itself during trade negotiations, that could possibly have an impact. But, given the past intransigence on the subject by HMG, a more likely response would be 'we are looking into the matter'!!

[Kwasaki]

12 hours ago, Chris.B said:

certain countries outside this continent have been condemned for letting pensioners down.

Well I knew and planned around my UK pension being frozen when I came to Thailand.

 

The Philippines is a country that have a social security agreement with the UK don't know why Thailand hasn't, maybe Thailand don't want to make an S/S agreement with UK.

 

Petitions and complaints just get look at.

 

[OJAS]

Contrast the UK's failure to protect overseas payments with the zeal and gusto applied by the UK to the recipients of said payments to prove that they are still in the land of the living!

 

[lungbing]

Contrast the UK's failure to protect overseas payments with the zeal and gusto applied by the UK to financing African despot's Lear jets and Afghanistan girl groups.

[Tanlic]

On 12/18/2020 at 10:58 AM, Kwasaki said:

Well I knew and planned around my UK pension being frozen when I came to Thailand.

 

The Philippines is a country that have a social security agreement with the UK don't know why Thailand hasn't, maybe Thailand don't want to make an S/S agreement with UK.

 

Petitions and complaints just get look at.

 

BUT why the hell should you have to make such plans? If you worked all your days, paid your stamps, then you are as entitled as the guy living in Hackney.....Are you British or not?

 

49th highest paid pension in the world Brits are from the 6th richest country on the planet

 

There are probably countries where less is required to live there........A person on a full pension can afford to stay there of it, in the sun, for health reasons. In 20 years he/she will barely afford a postage stamp because of inflation.

 

No doubt living in Thailand you are treated like  <deleted>....in the UK if your pension is due on Xmas day they get paid early around the 23rd but if you live in Thailand........its a  big <deleted> and you'll probably get it around the 28th or 29th and too bad if it was going to pay for your 80 year old Mother''s xmas lunch.

 

The UK couldn't care less about their pensioners and are a the disgrace of the western world

 

The worst thing is the public accept it in the USA millions take to the streets for less.......

Edited December 26, 2020 by Tanlic

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, Tanlic said:

BUT why the hell should you have to make such plans? ..Are you British or not?

 

There are probably countries where less is required to live there........A person on a full pension can afford to stay there of it, in the sun, for health reasons. In 20 years he/she will barely afford a postage stamp because of inflation.

 

No doubt living in Thailand you are treated like  <deleted>.... but if you live in Thailand......

 your 80 year old Mother''s xmas lunch.

 

The UK couldn't care less about their pensioners and are a the disgrace of the western world

Well I dunno about others I just ended up looking out for myself and was truculent if I had to be at any given time..

 

I made plans for retirement when I was 40 years old as I recall then people on a govt pension just scraped through in the UK, so I arranged to pay into a private pension..

 

I was born and bred in England and worked for 41 years and lived through the ups & downs and tough times I just got on with it..

 

When Maggie was PM that's I made my wealth she also she did things to split my private pension and help it increase in value, haven't got a clue what but it worked. 

 

As for ended up in Thailand I decided that over 20 years ago and came with savings, for the last 8 years I've been on a UK govt pension I don't need to touch any of my 2 small private pensions only if needed.

 

I really don't understand why people go on about inflation in Thailand,  in comparison to living in the UK it can only be considered as a joke.

 

Finally I am treated well as a whole in Thailand it's a pity UK didn't have same immigration rules if you were to ask me.

As for the UK couldn't care less about their pensioners and are a the disgrace of the western world I totally agree and they will carry on doing so, that's why I did something about it.

Happy New Year. ????

 

 

 

 

[keith101]

On 12/18/2020 at 11:58 AM, Kwasaki said:

Well I knew and planned around my UK pension being frozen when I came to Thailand.

 

The Philippines is a country that have a social security agreement with the UK don't know why Thailand hasn't, maybe Thailand don't want to make an S/S agreement with UK.

 

Petitions and complaints just get look at.

 

I dont think Thailand has agreements with any country but could be wrong i know they dont with the US and Australia .

[Natai Beach]

1 minute ago, Lacessit said:

I have no compunction whatsoever in getting every last dollar from Centrelink.

The same government employees that stuffed up my retirement get fat federal or state pensions, are they not leaners too?

Yes they are leaners also. 
All leaning on other people like me to pay their way. 

Where do you think Centrelink gets their money from? 
A. Me 

[Natai Beach]

27 minutes ago, keith101 said:

What has that got to do with the post and who cares what your thoughts are anyway , certainly not me for one . I paid taxes for over 50 years to earn the right to the age pension and if you dont like the pension then never apply for it thats your option .

I won’t be. 
Don’t worry mate, I will pay for you.
Just don’t complain it isn’t enough.

 

Deal?

[Lacessit]

1 hour ago, keith101 said:

I dont think Thailand has agreements with any country but could be wrong i know they dont with the US and Australia .

There's a bit of hypocrisy going on with the Australian complaint about UK pensions. When the Australian government paid out the COVID stimulus cheques to pensioners, I did not get one. AFAIK no-one deemed to be living overseas did.

[Lacessit]

3 minutes ago, Natai Beach said:

Yes they are leaners also. 
All leaning on other people like me to pay their way. 

Where do you think Centrelink gets their money from? 
A. Me 

When I was working for 48 years,  they certainly got a hell of a lot from me in taxes. As far as I am concerned, I'm getting some of it back now.

Am I supposed to feel sorry for you?

[Natai Beach]

9 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

There's a bit of hypocrisy going on with the Australian complaint about UK pensions. When the Australian government paid out the COVID stimulus cheques to pensioners, I did not get one. AFAIK no-one deemed to be living overseas did.

The idea of a stimulus package from Australia is to stimulate the Australian economy, not foreign economies. 
 Not to support people living it up in Thailand who spend other peoples hard earned on foreign golf courses. 

 

I have a mate who has been on the dole since his twenties. He claims he is owed the dole because of the taxes he paid. He just got two rounds of $750 and his dole doubled because of covid. He is very happy. Others will have to pay it back with interest. 

I know opinions differ but IMO welfare should just be for the disabled etc. If you are strong enough to go golfing, you are strong enough to support yourself. 
I quite like the Thai system.

[Lacessit]

2 minutes ago, Natai Beach said:

The idea of a stimulus package from Australia is to stimulate the Australian economy, not foreign economies. 
 Not to support people living it up in Thailand who spend other peoples hard earned on foreign golf courses. 

 

I have a mate who has been on the dole since his twenties. He claims he is owed the dole because of the taxes he paid. He just got two rounds of $750 and his dole doubled because of covid. He is very happy. Others will have to pay it back with interest. 

I know opinions differ but IMO welfare should just be for the disabled etc. If you are strong enough to go golfing, you are strong enough to support yourself. 
I quite like the Thai system.

There's a fair amount of cognitive dissonance in your response.

Firstly, unless you are a hard line socialist or control freak, I should be able to spend the money I have wherever I damn well please. Would you be happy if I dictated where you spend yours?

Secondly, you should check out age discrimination in Australia, with respect to employment. Anyone seeking a job over age 50 is ten times less likely to be successful than someone in their twenties or thirties. I'm 77, please provide your best estimate of the probability of landing a job.

Thirdly, when I filed my tax returns, I did not have access to the wonderful tax rorts you do, such as negative gearing, capital gains tax discounts, franking credits on dividends, family trusts, or company shells. So before before you bleat too loudly about lifters and leaners, just remember you are doing some leaning too.

If welfare should only go to the disabled, should that include people who disable themselves by their own actions? Idiots that ride motorbikes without helmets, alcoholics with wrecked livers, drug addicts? Why am I less deserving than they are?

Of course you like the Thai system, you don't have to live in it. You'd be screaming bloody murder if you did.

[Guderian]

Earlier this year I read about an All Party Parliamentary Group (APPG) on Frozen British Pensions which has put the case for “partial uprating” – which means currently frozen pensions would be uprated going forward. I can't find anything more up-to-date than that, does anyone have any news on the APPG's proposal and its reception by government?

 

Given how short of money they are after all the furlough and small business support schemes, not to mention the +/- £25 billion wasted on the failed track-and-trace system, I wouldn't be too optimistic that anything will change, but it would be nice to see some reasons other than "it's always been this way, so why should we change it?"

[treetops]

6 hours ago, Tanlic said:

BUT why the hell should you have to make such plans? If you worked all your days, paid your stamps, then you are as entitled as the guy living in Hackney.....

 

One makes plans in line with the current rules which currently say you are not entitled.  By all means fight for change if that's what you want, but plan for the real world.

[Estrada]

49 minutes ago, Guderian said:

Earlier this year I read about an All Party Parliamentary Group (APPG) on Frozen British Pensions which has put the case for “partial uprating” – which means currently frozen pensions would be uprated going forward. I can't find anything more up-to-date than that, does anyone have any news on the APPG's proposal and its reception by government?

 

Given how short of money they are after all the furlough and small business support schemes, not to mention the +/- £25 billion wasted on the failed track-and-trace system, I wouldn't be too optimistic that anything will change, but it would be nice to see some reasons other than "it's always been this way, so why should we change it?"

 

Earlier this month (December 2020) the APPG inquiry and report recommended that the UK Government end the ‘frozen’ pension policy and seek to provide UK pensioners living in ‘frozen’ countries with their full uprated UK state pension as soon as possible.http://frozenbritishpensions.org/2020-appg-inquiry/

[Muhendis]

2 minutes ago, Estrada said:

Earlier this month (December 2020) the APPG inquiry and report recommended that the UK Government end the ‘frozen’ pension policy and seek to provide UK pensioners living in ‘frozen’ countries with their full uprated UK state pension as soon as possible.http://frozenbritishpensions.org/2020-appg-inquiry/

Brilliantly good news..........but I won't be holding my breath.

[Natai Beach]

1 hour ago, Lacessit said:

There's a fair amount of cognitive dissonance in your response.

Firstly, unless you are a hard line socialist or control freak, I should be able to spend the money I have wherever I damn well please. Would you be happy if I dictated where you spend yours?

Secondly, you should check out age discrimination in Australia, with respect to employment. Anyone seeking a job over age 50 is ten times less likely to be successful than someone in their twenties or thirties. I'm 77, please provide your best estimate of the probability of landing a job.

Thirdly, when I filed my tax returns, I did not have access to the wonderful tax rorts you do, such as negative gearing, capital gains tax discounts, franking credits on dividends, family trusts, or company shells. So before before you bleat too loudly about lifters and leaners, just remember you are doing some leaning too.

If welfare should only go to the disabled, should that include people who disable themselves by their own actions? Idiots that ride motorbikes without helmets, alcoholics with wrecked livers, drug addicts? Why am I less deserving than they are?

Of course you like the Thai system, you don't have to live in it. You'd be screaming bloody murder if you did.

 

I agree with a little of what you say, but the Boomers in Oz had/have it better than anyone, which is why people over 65 usually have a heap more than the younger working age whose taxes prop up the boomers. 
negative gearing, capital gains tax discounts, franking credits on dividends, family trusts, and company shells are all available to you, and I can’t say I agree with them either and are used more by boomers than anyone else.
 

As someone living on welfare I don’t expect you to agree with me. 
 

35% of oZ government expenses is welfare, paid for by lifters.

 

But it isn’t an age issue for me, as I said I don’t agree with the dole or the pension and refuse to ever take either. Unless I was disabled. 
 

Compulsory super is a good policy. 

 

 

 

[Enfield]

4 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Well I dunno about others I just ended up looking out for myself and was truculent if I had to be at any given time..

 

I made plans for retirement when I was 40 years old as I recall then people on a govt pension just scraped through in the UK, so I arranged to pay into a private pension..

 

I was born and bred in England and worked for 41 years and lived through the ups & downs and tough times I just got on with it..

 

When Maggie was PM that's I made my wealth she also she did things to split my private pension and help it increase in value, haven't got a clue what but it worked. 

 

As for ended up in Thailand I decided that over 20 years ago and came with savings, for the last 8 years I've been on a UK govt pension I don't need to touch any of my 2 small private pensions only if needed.

 

I really don't understand why people go on about inflation in Thailand,  in comparison to living in the UK it can only be considered as a joke.

 

Finally I am treated well as a whole in Thailand it's a pity UK didn't have same immigration rules if you were to ask me.

As for the UK couldn't care less about their pensioners and are a the disgrace of the western world I totally agree and they will carry on doing so, that's why I did something about it.

Happy New Year. ????

 

 

 

 

I agree with you . I also made my own provisions . Look after yourself . No one else will .

[biggles45]

'which is why people over 65 usually have a heap more than the younger working age whose taxes prop up the boomers' 

 

You are conveniently forgetting that all these wealthy boomers in oz are subject to an assets/means test to get the OAP. I took early retirement at 51, I am 75 now and have NEVER qualified for the pension. 

 

I recall that many years ago a group from a British migrant assoc took the British Govt to court to get indexing of pensions and they lost the case

[Muhendis]

4 minutes ago, biggles45 said:

they lost the case

Twice.........

[Natai Beach]

5 minutes ago, biggles45 said:

You are conveniently forgetting that all these wealthy boomers in oz are subject to an assets/means test to get the OAP. I took early retirement at 51, I am 75 now and have NEVER qualified for the pension. 

 

Good on you Biggles. That’s the way. We need more lifters like you. 

[Lacessit]

18 minutes ago, Natai Beach said:

 

I agree with a little of what you say, but the Boomers in Oz had/have it better than anyone, which is why people over 65 usually have a heap more than the younger working age whose taxes prop up the boomers. 
negative gearing, capital gains tax discounts, franking credits on dividends, family trusts, and company shells are all available to you, and I can’t say I agree with them either and are used more by boomers than anyone else.
 

As someone living on welfare I don’t expect you to agree with me. 
 

35% of oZ government expenses is welfare, paid for by lifters.

 

But it isn’t an age issue for me, as I said I don’t agree with the dole or the pension and refuse to ever take either. Unless I was disabled. 
 

Compulsory super is a good policy. 

 

 

 

Give me a break here. You're saying I'm on welfare, then pointing out all the tax rorts are available to me?

I don't disagree with compulsory superannuation, although I am a bit amused you are endorsing a policy brought in by a socialist government.

Life can lead to reverses, I'm sure many people in the aftermath of the GFC never thought they would be using the welfare system.

So if you were to become financially disabled because some shyster swindled you out of your money, what would you do? I suspect you'd go running to the nearest Centrelink office. Permit me to doubt you'd be slashing your wrists.

[peterpop]

Maybe Thai Visa with their connections could suggest to the Thai Government that British pensioners in Thailand would contribute more to the economy if their pensions were not frozen.  I am not holding my breath.

[superal]

52 minutes ago, Estrada said:

 

Earlier this month (December 2020) the APPG inquiry and report recommended that the UK Government end the ‘frozen’ pension policy and seek to provide UK pensioners living in ‘frozen’ countries with their full uprated UK state pension as soon as possible.http://frozenbritishpensions.org/2020-appg-inquiry/

I opened the link and wow , what a good read . Could there be light at the end of the tunnel ?  Really put the UK government to shame .  They stated  " frozen pensions to be freed ASAP " ,  has there been a response from the government  ?

[Asquith Production]

4 hours ago, Natai Beach said:

I was raised to not rely on government welfare or charity. My dad would disown me if I had ever got on the dole or pension. Dole bludgers and pensioners are always complaining that their handouts are not enough in Australia.

They should get a job and save and fund their own retirement if they think they are not being given enough. Leaners  complaining the lifters are not giving them enough. 

 

 

It is not Government welfare or charity it was what you paid into the system for. Luckily I dont rely on the increase but it peeves me that the Government do not honour their side of the bargain

Edited December 26, 2020 by Asquith Production
spelling mistake

[Chris.B]

The UK State pension is not a benefit it is an entitlement.

 

[heybuz]

1 hour ago, Natai Beach said:

 

I agree with a little of what you say, but the Boomers in Oz had/have it better than anyone, which is why people over 65 usually have a heap more than the younger working age whose taxes prop up the boomers. 
negative gearing, capital gains tax discounts, franking credits on dividends, family trusts, and company shells are all available to you, and I can’t say I agree with them either and are used more by boomers than anyone else.
 

As someone living on welfare I don’t expect you to agree with me. 
 

35% of oZ government expenses is welfare, paid for by lifters.

 

But it isn’t an age issue for me, as I said I don’t agree with the dole or the pension and refuse to ever take either. Unless I was disabled. 
 

Compulsory super is a good policy. 

 

 

 

Who are the lifters,I worked for 50 years and was a lifter for the older people before me as they probably were for the ones before them ,so now your whinging because it's your turn, I suppose you leave the pub before your shout.

[Muhendis]

57 minutes ago, Chris.B said:

The UK State pension is not a benefit it is an entitlement.

 

This is true. For those among us who are not from the UK and especially those that think the UK pension is a gift from the government to the elderly who didn't make provision for their retirement, let me clarify. It is an insurance scheme run by the government into which all working people pay a percentage of their income. On reaching retirement age pensioners get some of that back not because they are poor or sick or disabled, but because it is what they have payed for over the last thirty or forty years. I, and I'm sure other UK pensioners, feel let down by successive UK governments because we are not paid our index linked increases the same as other UK citizens who reside in the UK.