EU's Barnier says: just hours left for a Brexit trade deal

[Mavideol]

last night (our time) news conference by BJ and 2 of his gang was anything but out of the ordinary, the 3 of them sounded lost for words to explain the current situation in the UK and the possible solutions, not one sounded/credible explanation as to the UK government failures, it was pity to watch such a ""renamed 555"" world leader searching for words and stuttering

 

https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/001427.htm

Stuttering is a speech disorder in which sounds, syllables, or words are repeated or last longer than normal. These problems cause a break in the flow of speech called disfluency.

Causes = There is also evidence that stuttering is a result of brain injuries

[billd766]

1 hour ago, Surelynot said:

Excellent reponse.......very good.

Do you think that the French will respond in a likewise manner?

 

27 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Those could have been negotiated for the same length of time and watered down versions implemented to keep the great unwashed happy.

But they weren't watered down by the EU, which is one reason we now have Brexit and the great unwashed ( the Remainers/Leavers?) are now happy.

 

Or not.

[JonnyF]

16 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

 

I don't know the real reason.

 

Put I wrote here already my " Conspiration Theory " being :

 

The E.U. wasn't pleased at all when the U.K. left the Union.

They decided that further cooperation with the U.K. would only be at their specific conditions, and only prepared to compromise a itsy-bitsy.

If the U.K. would accept their conditions or a part of it, it would be a " sweet revenge " for the E.U..

They know that the U.K. could step away at any time.

(In the meantime , it is a fact that after years and years, they still haven't)

The E.U. know that no deal will certainly cause a lot of problems, they are however convinced that the U.K. would be confronted with a lot of problems too.

So a loose-loose seems acceptable for the E.U., hence a no real desire to compromise.

 

 

 

 

I agree with a lot of that, but a couple of things to remember.

 

1. The Remainer PM and Parliament first extended the article 50 process and then made it illegal to leave without a WA, this is why we never walked away. People are very quick to forget that. I believe this time, with a Leave Parliament and a leave PM we will walk if we have to.

2. Covid changed things. Whereas the EU could handle No Deal fairly easily before, it is a lot more difficult now. I think they are just as keen as the UK to get a deal now, but they simply can't agree amongst themselves because there are 27 different sets of priorities and France is the fly in the ointment re. fishing.

[overherebc]

9 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

I assume the 17,410,742  people that voted to leave or as you label them "the great unwashed" didn't vote the way you want them to vote

No. They just voted to leave and I think their decision wasn't based on any knowledge of what would happen because of their vote. In general people in uk vote either Con' or Lab' with a certain amount of knowledge about what that means.

I don't believe the vast majority had a clue what the effects of leaving would be.

[evadgib]

2 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I agree with a lot of that, but a couple of things to remember.

 

1. The Remainer PM and Parliament first extended the article 50 process and then made it illegal to leave without a WA, this is why we never walked away. People are very quick to forget that. I believe this time, with a Leave Parliament and a leave PM we will walk if we have to.

2. Covid changed things. Whereas the EU could handle No Deal fairly easily before, it is a lot more difficult now. I think they are just as keen as the UK to get a deal now, but they simply can't agree amongst themselves because there are 27 different sets of priorities and France is the fly in the ointment re. fishing.

I'm not sure Boris has the bottle but lets hope so.

[vinny41]

2 minutes ago, overherebc said:

No. They just voted to leave and I think their decision wasn't based on any knowledge of what would happen because of their vote. In general people in uk vote either Con' or Lab' with a certain amount of knowledge about what that means.

I don't believe the vast majority had a clue what the effects of leaving would be.

Well Cameron made it crystal clear what it would mean if you vote leave and he repeated the same message 28 times

and the same message was posted through every letterbox in the country

so I am sure the vast majority did know what voting leave meant and it was crystal clear on the voting paper 

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

[Surelynot]

54 minutes ago, CorpusChristie said:

 

  You'll have to explain that one to me, it went straight over my head 

To be fair a rather oblique reference to the numbers of Turks claimed to be ready to swamp the UK if we didn't vote for Brexit.

 

Part of Project Fear?

[vinny41]

35 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

 

I don't know the real reason.

 

Put I wrote here already my " Conspiration Theory " being :

 

The E.U. wasn't pleased at all when the U.K. left the Union.

They decided that further cooperation with the U.K. would only be at their specific conditions, and only prepared to compromise a itsy-bitsy.

If the U.K. would accept their conditions or a part of it, it would be a " sweet revenge " for the E.U..

They know that the U.K. could step away at any time.

(In the meantime , it is a fact that after years and years, they still haven't)

The E.U. know that no deal will certainly cause a lot of problems, they are however convinced that the U.K. would be confronted with a lot of problems too.

So a loose-loose seems acceptable for the E.U., hence a no real desire to compromise.

 

 

 

 

If there is a deal  the EU can block UK fish from the single market 

However if there is no deal and the EU-UK trade on wto terms , The EU has to accept UK fish into the EU

the only alternative is for the EU to withdraw from WTO

[overherebc]

8 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

To be fair a rather oblique reference to the numbers of Turks claimed to be ready to swamp the UK if we didn't vote for Brexit.

 

Part of Project Fear?

Probably, yes, a part of project fear.

If you don't vote leave you will be over-run by dark skinned hordes speaking in strange ways and there will be no more fish and chips or black pudding. 

[Surelynot]

Just now, overherebc said:

Probably, yes, a part of project fear.

If you don't vote leave you will be over-run by dark skinned hordes speaking in strange ways and there will be no more fish and chips or black pudding. 

Ha...wait for the FTA with India.....

[luckyluke]

9 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

The EU has to accept UK fish into the EU

I don't get why ?

Is there an agreement/rule for that?

Can't they  simply not buy English fish anymore ?

Or instore crazy taxes on it, people won't buy, or a little ( similar to cheese & wine here in Thailand)

Edited December 22, 2020 by luckyluke

[vinny41]

4 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

I don't get why ?

Is there an agreement/rule for that?

Can't they  simply not buy English fish anymore ?

That's how wto trade rules work

you can't have rules for one country and different set of rules for another country

I guess EU could try and block all Fishing imports from all countries that the EU trades with on WTO terms

[luckyluke]

5 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

That's how wto trade rules work

you can't have rules for one country and different set of rules for another country

I guess EU could try and block all Fishing imports from all countries that the EU trades with on WTO terms

So if I understand correctly, when no deal, the E.U. and the U.K. can not decide what they want to import from one specific country.

But can they put different taxes on a same product but from a different country?

Fish from the U.K. 50% taxes, fish from Morocco 25 %. 

[vinny41]

20 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

I don't get why ?

Is there an agreement/rule for that?

Can't they  simply not buy English fish anymore ?

Or instore crazy taxes on it, people won't buy, or a little ( similar to cheese & wine here in Thailand)

They could apply crazy taxes or tariffs but they have to apply them to all countries that they trade with under WTO terms

for example  EU has a 10% tariff on USA car imports they wouldn't be allowed to put a 20% tariff on UK cars

as the tariffs have to be the same for all countries

[placeholder]

37 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Well Cameron made it crystal clear what it would mean if you vote leave and he repeated the same message 28 times

and the same message was posted through every letterbox in the country

so I am sure the vast majority did know what voting leave meant and it was crystal clear on the voting paper 

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

 

18 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

That's how wto trade rules work

you can't have rules for one country and different set of rules for another country

I guess EU could try and block all Fishing imports from all countries that the EU trades with on WTO terms

Problem is, lots of seafood is very time sensitive. There's nothing in the WTO rules about bypassing customs for the sake of freshness.

For example

Shell shocked: 'Lobster capital' braces for Brexit - BBC News

[luckyluke]

4 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

They could apply crazy taxes...

So the E.U. can not really boycott U.K. products, the U.K. not really E.U. ones.

[david555]

 (And ....once more.... Boris put on his walking shoe's .....????????????  ) real Marathon man ....i would suggest he take now today a walk past those lorry's in Kent  .....

 

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1375298/Brexit-latest-Boris-Johnson-Michel-Barnier-EU-trade-deal-talks-news-no-deal-update

Boris Johnson issues brutal no deal Brexit ultimatum to Michel Barnier - UK will walk away
BORIS JOHNSON warned Brussels last night Britain will walk away without a deal if it refuses to compromise in the final days of talks.

By BY SAM LISTER AND JOE BARNES
PUBLISHED: 00:01, Tue, Dec 22, 2020 | UPDATED: 06:56, Tue, Dec 22, 2020

 

The Prime Minister said the negotiations are stuck and told the EU it must accept the UK will take control of its laws and borders. Speaking from No 10, he insisted the country can “certainly cope” with any difficulties caused by moving on to World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules from January 1. He said: “The position is unchanged. There are problems. It is vital everybody understands that the UK has got to be able to control its own laws completely and also that we have got to be able to control our own fisheries.

Edited December 22, 2020 by david555

[vinny41]

1 minute ago, luckyluke said:

So the E.U. can not really boycott U.K. products, the U.K. not really E.U. ones.

That is correct, The EU can if it so wishes punish the UK for leaving through a deal and the single market

In the event of no deal they are not allowed to have different terms for the UK trading under wto from another member trading with the eu under wto

if the EU wants to boycott a product under wto they have to boycott that product for all countries that they trade with under WTO

if they go down that route you can expect those countries to take similar measures against the EU

[placeholder]

Just now, vinny41 said:

That is correct, The EU can if it so wishes punish the UK for leaving through a deal and the single market

In the event of no deal they are not allowed to have different terms for the UK trading under wto from another member trading with the eu under wto

if the EU wants to boycott a product under wto they have to boycott that product for all countries that they trade with under WTO

if they go down that route you can expect those countries to take similar measures against the EU

Correct. But it's not a matter of boycotting. EU goods and services will become less competitive in the UK and UK goods and services will become less competitive in the EU. But given that the UK  buys from and sells to the EU a lot larger percentage of its goods and service it will be affected more. That's just basic arithmetic.

[luckyluke]

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

That is correct,

So if no deal, great chance that the E.U. and the U.K. will do nothing about the products they import from each other.

[placeholder]

2 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

So if no deal, great chance that the E.U. and the U.K. will do nothing about the products they import from each other.

Well, they'll be subject to whatever requirements they impose on other nations trading under WTO rules.

[vinny41]

2 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Correct. But it's not a matter of boycotting. EU goods and services will become less competitive in the UK and UK goods and services will become less competitive in the EU. But given that the UK  buys from and sells to the EU a lot larger percentage of its goods and service it will be affected more. That's just basic arithmetic.

what is the UK trade deficit with the EU  -£97 billion on trade in goods

so that means the EU sells more to the UK than what the UK sells to the EU

[Surelynot]

1 minute ago, placeholder said:

Well, they'll be subject to whatever requirements they impose on other nations trading under WTO rules.

Like 80% on beef....65% on lamb...that kind of thing?

[placeholder]

3 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Like 80% on beef....65% on lamb...that kind of thing?

Exactly.

[vinny41]

9 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Like 80% on beef....65% on lamb...that kind of thing?

Which is why Ireland is concerned about no deal as the UK is likely to import beef from South America rather than an EU country

Edited December 22, 2020 by vinny41
typo

[welovesundaysatspace]

9 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

what is the UK trade deficit with the EU  -£97 billion on trade in goods

so that means the EU sells more to the UK than what the UK sells to the EU

The question wasn’t who sells more to whom but who’ll be affected more. 
 

 

[vinny41]

19 minutes ago, placeholder said:

Correct. But it's not a matter of boycotting. EU goods and services will become less competitive in the UK and UK goods and services will become less competitive in the EU. But given that the UK  buys from and sells to the EU a lot larger percentage of its goods and service it will be affected more. That's just basic arithmetic.

 

2 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

The question wasn’t who sells more to whom but who’ll be affected more. 
 

 

Incorrect no question was asked

[placeholder]

4 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Which is why Ireland is concerned about no deal as the UK is likely to import beef from South America rather than an EU country

And British producers of lamb and beef are not?

[placeholder]

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

 

Incorrect no question was asked

Trolling much?

Or are you just unfamiliar with English? Here are a few more definitions of "question"

• a matter forming the basis of a problem requiring resolution.

  "we have kept an eye on the question of political authority"
• a matter or concern depending on or involving a specified condition or thing.

  "it was not simply a question of age and hierarchy"

[vinny41]

6 minutes ago, placeholder said:

And British producers of lamb and beef are not?

British producers of lamb and beef will be worried, British consumers less so

It is well known that the EU runs a protection racket to artificially keep prices high

if the UK had a referendum on do you wish to pay high prices on your beef or lamb and allow farmers to mantain their Range Rovers

or do you wish to pay for your beef and lamb at market prices without any subsidies or any protectionism rules in place that benefit the farmer at the expense of the consumers

I suspect the majority of British voters would go for paying for beef and lamb at market prices without any subsidies or any protectionism rules