UK and EU reach Brexit trade deal

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Touchy I asked Do you have any idea on current and future cost of Erasmus + and which country in the EU benefits the most

Is that information EU secret and not for our eyes only

 

I have absolutely no idea.

 

Had you even heard of Erasmus before this past week?

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I have absolutely no idea.

 

Had you even heard of Erasmus before this past week?

 

You mean my cat?

[vinny41]

6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

I have absolutely no idea.

 

Had you even heard of Erasmus before this past week?

Actually I was aware of Erasmus for a number of years thanks , As a remainer you must be aware of the Jean Monnet Programme

[Surelynot]

22 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Do you have any idea on current and future cost of Erasmus + and which country in the EU benefits the most

Nope...do you?

[luckyluke]

6 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Actually I was aware of Erasmus for a number of years thanks , As a remainer you must be aware of the Jean Monnet Programme

 

Google is my friend too.

[vinny41]

8 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

Nope...do you?

Current budget for years 2014-2020 with the UK paying was  14.774 billion EUR under Heading 1 and of 1.680 billion EUR under Heading 4 of the EU Budget for the seven years (2014-2020). 

[Bluespunk]

tick tick tick

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/26/fishing-chiefs-cry-betrayal-as-mps-fear-rush-to-ratify-brexit-deal?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[vinny41]

41 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Current budget for years 2014-2020 with the UK paying was  14.774 billion EUR under Heading 1 and of 1.680 billion EUR under Heading 4 of the EU Budget for the seven years (2014-2020). 

https://ec.europa.eu/info/education/set-projects-education-and-training/erasmus-funding-programme_en#:~:text=Erasmus%2B funding programme-,Erasmus%2B is the EU's programme to support education%2C training%2C youth,for activities with partner countries.

Erasmus+ 2021 2027 Council reaches a provisional agreement with the European Parliament

It will be provided with a substantial budget of EUR 24.57 billion in current prices plus EUR 1.7 billion in 2018 prices,

Total 26.27 billion euros UK contribution zero euros

https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/press/press-releases/2020/12/11/erasmus-2021-2027-council-reaches-a-provisional-agreement-with-the-european-parliament/

Edited December 27, 2020 by vinny41
forgot url

[7by7]

30 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Current budget for years 2014-2020 with the UK paying was  14.774 billion EUR under Heading 1 and of 1.680 billion EUR under Heading 4 of the EU Budget for the seven years (2014-2020). 

 

15 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Erasmus+ 2021 2027 Council reaches a provisional agreement with the European Parliament

It will be provided with a substantial budget of EUR 24.57 billion in current prices plus EUR 1.7 billion in 2018 prices,

Total 26.27 billion euros UK contribution zero euros

 Google is a useful tool; but not only is it good netiquette to links to your sources, you, yourself, said

On 12/25/2020 at 2:02 PM, vinny41 said:

If your are unable or unwilling to  provide a link to support your post , your claim should be considered suspect or misleading

 

Perhaps you should do as you demand of others and provide links.

 

 

[Hi from France]

1 hour ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Is this the bit where you try to define the cost of education by counting the money spent?

About Erasmus, there's no question the UK attractiveness had been going down lately.

 

As I remember when I was an Erasmus student in the 90's the UK used to be the most attractive destination. Since then it has lost its popularity and with the threat of Brexit, not to mention the "hostile environment" policy, students have been fewer, that's probably why Boris Johnson tried to cherry pick and had to withdraw Britain in the end.

 

There's also a chasm opening between the UK higher education vision and the European vision (the UK has abandoned the "free access/subsidized" model to get into a US "student debt" model). 

 

Note that the manager of universities make 3-figures salaries. We are very very far from that in France.

Now with the current loss of students "customers" these high-payed people are being fired... 

 

It would be fine if Scotland could somehow get back into the program, since they have a different vision of University education, closer to the rest of Europe. 

 

More 

Erasmus (EuRopean Action Scheme for the Mobility of University Students)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erasmus_Programme

 

. 

Edited December 27, 2020 by Hi from France

[vinny41]

13 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Erasmus+ 2021 2027 Council reaches a provisional agreement with the European Parliament

It will be provided with a substantial budget of EUR 24.57 billion in current prices plus EUR 1.7 billion in 2018 prices,

Total 26.27 billion euros UK contribution zero euros

In 2019,   French students participated the most in a learning experience abroad, according to the latest 2019

https://twitter.com/EUErasmusPlus/status/1341722728101920768

French Students 49,066 Compared to 18,305 UK students

 

n 2019 Spain didn't lose steam! The Western country was (again) the top 1 destination for higher education students during the 2018/2019 year! ¡Felicidades! Germany, France, UK and Italy are all in the top 5 #ErasmusPlus destinations!

52,830 went to Spain, 30,501 went to the UK

https://twitter.com/EUErasmusPlus/status/1342515450723368960

 

Who knows maybe in the 2021 to 2027 program they could include a course on the use of Internet search engines

 

[7by7]

9 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

I thought that was common sense but if you are being pedantic yes it can't make it's own trade deals which is what was being suggested.

 

I recall no post suggesting that EU members could make unilateral trade deals with non EU members; can you point me to such a one?

 

But EU members can, and do, trade with non EU members, just as we did when we were a member.

[vinny41]

7 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

 Google is a useful tool; but not only is it good netiquette to links to your sources, you, yourself, said

 

Perhaps you should do as you demand of others and provide links.

 

 

links added 

[7by7]

7 hours ago, luckyluke said:

 

If it is however the case, It will be interesting to know with which major country the U.K. has signed a deal, country which hadn't previously a deal with the E.U..

 

 

There is the Japanese deal; which is not as good as Truss claimed. Is the UK's trade deal with Japan better than the EU's?

Quote

The new deal goes beyond the EU’s in areas such as e-commerce and financial services, but it also has some drawbacks.

For example, the UK reportedly wanted to receive quotas for some agricultural products which could be exported with a lower tariff than normal. Instead the UK will be able to use whatever’s left over from the EU’s quota with Japan, potentially putting UK exporters at a disadvantage.

 

It does allow us goods to Japan tariff free. But Brexit: Liz Truss secures tariff wins with her Japan trade deal – for products UK doesn’t export!

Quote

Just 10 of 9,444 products will enjoy lower taxes, experts say, a list of obscure items such as birds’ eggs, raw hides, fur skins, handbags and ultra-strong spirits of at least 90 per cent alcohol.

Crucially, none of the 10 have been sold to Japan for at least three years – which means the gain to British exporters is “zero”, the study has found.

 

[Bluespunk]

Uh oh...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/27/boris-johnson-admits-brexit-deal-falls-short-for-financial-services?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[7by7]

 

14 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

links added 

 

 

Better late than never. Shame you had to be reminded to do as you demand of others, though.

[Hi from France]

11 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

Uh oh...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/27/boris-johnson-admits-brexit-deal-falls-short-for-financial-services?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

yeah I was reading that

 

 

 

 

Boris while you were at it, you should have traded a bit more fish quota to secure the future of Britain's energy market, and save billions

 

...but all the fish in the world can never be traded for letting the UK financial sector crush ours again.

 

I believe the even if the UK became a member again it should never do that trick to us again. Lest it show more solidarity and take the € instead of the £.

 

and this a not going to happen

 

 

 

so good luck to the British banking/financial industry, this battle is in no way lost in advance but it has turned into an uphill battle. The easy years are over

 

 

Edited December 27, 2020 by Hi from France

[7by7]

2 hours ago, evadgib said:

No 10 were pretty clear but as ???????????????????????????? isn't your first language I won't labour the point.

 

 

If you are going to criticise other's English ability you would do well to refrain from childish emojis and instead use the language properly yourself.

 

 

[nauseus]

38 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

I recall no post suggesting that EU members could make unilateral trade deals with non EU members; can you point me to such a one?

 

But EU members can, and do, trade with non EU members, just as we did when we were a member.

 

Unless they had previous trade deals.

[nauseus]

23 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 

 

 

Better late than never. Shame you had to be reminded to do as you demand of others, though.

 

Bin of shame again Vinny? Bad lad.

[7by7]

58 minutes ago, Hi from France said:

<snip>

About Erasmus, there's no question the UK attractiveness had been going down lately.

 Not just in the EU; but worldwide; due to the massive increase in visa fees and the changes in the immigration rules introduced by the Tories.

 

From 2013: Sharp decline in foreign student numbers

Quote

A steep decline in foreign students coming to study at UK colleges and language schools has prompted fears of a knock-on effect on universities.

The latest figures show a 46% drop in visas for these types of students, a large chunk of whom go on to study degree courses at UK universities.

 

From 2018: UK 'missing out' on overseas students

Quote

University leaders are calling for changes to the UK visa system to allow international students to stay and work for two years after they graduate.

Universities UK says otherwise overseas students, worth £26bn to the UK economy, will opt for countries such as the US, Canada and Australia.

Research has shown Australia is already overtaking the UK as the second biggest destination for overseas students.

 

Leaving Erasmus will make things worse as the Turing scheme only covers UK students, not students from the EU coming to the UK; who will now be treated the same as those from the rest of the world. Which means expensive visa application and higher tuition fees. 

 

UK students lose Erasmus membership in Brexit deal

Quote

The new scheme is not expected to fund students coming to the UK, as Erasmus does now, which suggests British universities will miss out on a source of income. A report earlier this year said ending Erasmus membership would cost the UK more than £200m a year.

 

It is not just the loss to the UK economy caused by these students not coming here; it must also be remembered that their higher tuition fees subsidise those of British students.

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2020 by 7by7
Addendum

[7by7]

12 minutes ago, nauseus said:

51 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

<snip>

But EU members can, and do, trade with non EU members, just as we did when we were a member.

 

Unless they had previous trade deals.

 

In which case they would trade under that deal; which would, of course, be better than trading without one.

 

Otherwise, what's the point of having trade deals at all?

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 

If you are going to criticise other's English ability you would do well to refrain from childish emojis and instead use the language properly yourself.

I'd call it initiative. Why else has  made them so readily available?

 

Edited December 27, 2020 by evadgib

[david555]

OMG..... ! !  ???? Shall i start liking this hardcore brexiteers Express now ... ? "Moggy"  go like this small print ????

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1377057/brexit-news-deal-eu-european-court-of-justice-ecj-laws-uk-boris-johnson-horizon-spt

Brexit deal bombshell as small print shows EU judges' orders WILL be enforceable in UK
EU judges' orders will be enforceable in the UK in relation to the bloc's programmes and activities, such as Horizon, it has emerged in the Brexit deal.
By MARTINA BET
PUBLISHED: 09:06, Sun, Dec 27, 2020 | UPDATED: 11:00, Sun, Dec 27, 2020
-
-
-
As usual, though, the devil is in the detail and in the full text of the trade agreement published on Saturday morning, it does seem the UK also compromised on this matter.

EU judges' orders will still be enforceable in the UK, in relation to the bloc's programmes, such as Horizon. The Brexit deal says: "Decisions adopted by the European Commission imposing a pecuniary obligation on legal or natural persons other than States in relation to any claims stemming from Union programmes, activities, actions or projects shall be enforceable in the United Kingdom.

 

“The order for its enforcement shall be appended to the decision, without any other formality than a verification of the authenticity of the decision by the national authority designated for this purpose by the United Kingdom.

 

"The United Kingdom shall make known its designated national authority to the Commission and the Court of Justice of the European Union. In accordance with Article UNPRO.5.1 [Communication and exchange of information], the European Commission shall be entitled to notify such enforceable decisions directly to persons residing and legal entities established in the United Kingdom.

 

 

Edited December 27, 2020 by david555

[bannork]

5 hours ago, evadgib said:

Erasmus has been superseded.

 

New Turing scheme to support thousands of students to study and work abroad

 

 

I see Australia and Canada are two of the countries mentioned. Students' families have to cough up for transport costs. What's the current price for a return ticket to Oz?

I know a return to Belgium can be less than £50.

[tebee]

11 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

And that's why we have left it. The poster was continually saying that in the EU you could make trade deals with other countries which you could not as you had to get permission from the other EU countries, which as you highlight as an example never happens.

 

Leaving the EU gives the UK autonomy to make trade deals with other countries. I thought it was simple for everyone to understand but for some, clearly not

What you are missunderstanding here is the importance to the modern trade system of tariff barriers. Most impediments to international trade these days are non-tariff barriers.

Although you can't change the centrally negotiated tariffs, to a certain extent you you can negotiate to alleviate the non- tariff barriers on your own.

 

However, what we have done is erect a massive non-tariff barrier with our biggest trade partner - the £16 billion a year cost of doing customs paperwork for each side - in the hope we might be able to make slightly better deal with small countries half way round the globe. It's going to take a lot more of those than there are countries to make up the loss!

 

As someone else mentioned, there is also the problem of rules of origin. Modern manufacturing often includes parts from many other companies in many countries. When we were in the EU parts made in any EU country counted as being home produced. Now only parts made in the UK will count.  The problem is there are a lot of things we just don't make any more. It's going to be very hard to manufacture things that can benefit from any new trade deals.

 

[Surelynot]

3 minutes ago, tebee said:

What you are missunderstanding here is the importance to the modern trade system of tariff barriers. Most impediments to international trade these days are non-tariff barriers.

Although you can't change the centrally negotiated tariffs, to a certain extent you you can negotiate to alleviate the non- tariff barriers on your own.

 

However, what we have done is erect a massive non-tariff barrier with our biggest trade partner - the £16 billion a year cost of doing customs paperwork for each side - in the hope we might be able to make slightly better deal with small countries half way round the globe. It's going to take a lot more of those than there are countries to make up the loss!

 

As someone else mentioned, there is also the problem of rules of origin. Modern manufacturing often includes parts from many other companies in many countries. When we were in the EU parts made in any EU country counted as being home produced. Now only parts made in the UK will count.  The problem is there are a lot of things we just don't make any more. It's going to be very hard to manufacture things that can benefit from any new trade deals.

 

Ha...forgot the blue passports?....there was something else...forget now....sovereignty ...was that it?

[Surelynot]

 

[Chomper Higgot]

27 minutes ago, bannork said:

I see Australia and Canada are two of the countries mentioned. Students' families have to cough up for transport costs. What's the current price for a return ticket to Oz?

I know a return to Belgium can be less than £50.

Don’t waste too much time thinking about it.

 

It’ll turn out to be nothing like what’s promised, like everything else Johnson has a hand in.

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Don’t waste too much time thinking about it.

 

It’ll turn out to be nothing like what’s promised, like everything else Johnson has a hand in.

Boris promised to extract us from the EU, he delivered and with the hand T May left him it is nothing short of a miracle, he will definately go down as one of the greatest leaders of all time.

You're still angry he didn't top himself in that ditch, right.