Brexit is Britain punishing itself, France's Beaune says

[CG1 Blue]

9 hours ago, Blue Muton said:

here's one.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/17/vote-leave-fined-and-reported-to-police-by-electoral-commission-brexit

 

And yet the government spent £9m of taxpayers' money sending a leaflet to every home promoting remain, and the Remain side didn't even get investigated. 

[CG1 Blue]

2 hours ago, Bruntoid said:

Bizarre - ok I’ll open with a 2% drop in GDP (that means Gross Domestic Product), raise you with Loiners fish industry being sold down the river and throw in a future littered with tariffs if we step out of line with the worlds largest trading block.... is that enough detail as I could go on about sabotaging the younger generations future .....

 

So what you got ? ???? desperate for some brexiteer projections .....

Predictions and guesswork are your 'proof'? No change there then. 

[kingdong]

On 12/31/2020 at 11:36 AM, snoop1130 said:

Brexit is Britain punishing itself, France's Beaune says

 

FILE PHOTO: French Junior Minister for European Affairs Clement Beaune speaks during a press conference to outline France's strategy for the deployment of future COVID-19 vaccines, in Paris as the coronavirus disease outbreak continues in France, December 3, 2020. REUTERS/Benoit Tessier/Pool/File photo

 

PARIS (Reuters) - Long and tortuous Brexit negotiations were not the result of any European Union desire to punish Britain for leaving the bloc, French European Affairs minister Clement Beaune said on Thursday.

 

The United Kingdom formally left the EU on Jan. 31, to implement the result of a 2016 referendum, but its bid to retain tariff-free access to the EU single market beyond 2020 only ended a week ago with the conclusion of a trade deal.

 

"With Brexit, Britain is punishing itself," Beaune told France's LCI television. "We weren't trying to punish it."

 

"Britain realised that having no access to the European market would be an economic disaster," he added. "This is why, in the deal that was reached, there is access to the European market, but while respecting our conditions and rules."

 

The UK officially leaves the European Union's orbit on Thursday night, after an often strained 48-year liaison with the European project.

 

"This day will be historic but it will be a sad day because, when a country leaves the EU for the first time after 45 years of living together, it is sad," Beaune said.

 

"Brexit must be a lesson that we must push forward better, faster and stronger as Europeans."

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2020-12-31

 

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on your last point you,ve had 48 years to do that.

[Nout]

14 hours ago, kamahele said:

They guy is right. The rest of the world has been listening to the whining of the pro Brexit supporters for years complaining about how mean the EU was being to them when the onus was on the the UK whose decision it was to leave. You've left now with what looks like a good deal so no more whining please.

It was not "whining".That is a term you use seeking to demean 17 million people.The constant clamor for democracy is noble support stated sometimes calmly and sometimes angrily but always in support of democracy in the face of an unholy alliance of elites, political classes and the ill informed...not whining but shouting in defiance at those who  try to thwart WE THE PEOPLE and our historic vote.

[vinny41]

Liberal Democrats fined £18,000 for breaches of campaign finance rules

this follows an investigation that found the party failed to deliver a complete and accurate spending return as a permitted participant at the EU Referendum

Open Britain

Open Britain (formerly known as Britain Stronger in Europe) has been fined £1,250 for failing to deliver a complete and accurate spending return for the EU Referendum

https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/liberal-democrats-fined-ps18000-breaches-campaign-finance-rules

 

It should be said there are other remain groups that were also fined

[candide]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

Liberal Democrats fined £18,000 for breaches of campaign finance rules

this follows an investigation that found the party failed to deliver a complete and accurate spending return as a permitted participant at the EU Referendum

Open Britain

Open Britain (formerly known as Britain Stronger in Europe) has been fined £1,250 for failing to deliver a complete and accurate spending return for the EU Referendum

https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/liberal-democrats-fined-ps18000-breaches-campaign-finance-rules

 

It should be said there are other remain groups that were also fined

Quite small players compared to leavers:

120,000

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-watchdog-fines-leave-eu-for-brexit-campaign-privacy-violation/

61,000

https://www.dw.com/en/brexit-vote-leave-campaign-fined-and-referred-to-police-by-electoral-commission/a-49750297

 

[vinny41]

7 minutes ago, candide said:

Quite small players compared to leavers:

120,000

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-watchdog-fines-leave-eu-for-brexit-campaign-privacy-violation/

61,000

https://www.dw.com/en/brexit-vote-leave-campaign-fined-and-referred-to-police-by-electoral-commission/a-49750297

 

The £120,000 is not related to any fines imposed by the Electoral comission and small change compared to the £435,000 plus Vat that the Electoral comission paid in relation to Darren Grimes legal costs when they lost their case against him

[Chomper Higgot]

11 hours ago, baansgr said:

I'm sure remainers wanted a lot of things. 2021 is the year they find out what they voted for 

That’s arguably the most illogical post I’ve read in a long time.

 

Remainers votes for ‘Remain’ and all that ‘Remain’ entailed, since ‘Leave’ won and ‘Leave’ happened, ‘Remainers’ didn’t get what they voted for.

 

But if it makes sense to you, enjoy.

[Blue Muton]

4 hours ago, vinny41 said:

The £120,000 is not related to any fines imposed by the Electoral comission and small change compared to the £435,000 plus Vat that the Electoral comission paid in relation to Darren Grimes legal costs when they lost their case against him

That the £120,000 fine was not imposed by the EC is a moot point, it still relates to illegal acts by and on behalf of the official voice of the leave campaign, one of a number of acts that was commited to undermine the democratic process. Why can't you simply be honest and admit that?

[Blue Muton]

7 hours ago, Nout said:

It was not "whining".That is a term you use seeking to demean 17 million people.The constant clamor for democracy is noble support stated sometimes calmly and sometimes angrily but always in support of democracy in the face of an unholy alliance of elites, political classes and the ill informed...not whining but shouting in defiance at those who  try to thwart WE THE PEOPLE and our historic vote.

 

.....always in support of democracy.... is simply untrue, there is plenty of evidence of that on this page.

 

Anybody who speaks "always in support of democracy" would have no hesitation in unreservedly condemning undermining the democratic process by breaking the laws pertaining to it.

 

Anybody who speaks "always in support of democracy" would be calling for any second house to be fully elected.

 

Anybody who speaks "always in support of democracy" would be demandin the right for "WE THE PEOPLE" to vote for "our" head of state.

 

Anybody who speaks "always in support of democracy" would not undermine the democratically elected European Parliament by pretending that laws passed by them are un-democratic.

 

Anybody who speaks "always in support of democracy" would not support an electoral system where 40% of votes can trample 60% underfoot.

 

So, come on, let's hear your unwavering support for democracy.

[vogie]

It must be desperation to rely on a morally corrupt organisation like the Electoral Commission to make a point.

 

 

[luckyluke]

14 hours ago, billd766 said:

Please explain to us fickas, the time when the US was in the EU.

 

quote "British folks never know the decision makers in neighbouring countries even when the US was in the EU. 

 

I am sadly surprised from this rather childish post,

it is obvious that this is a simple typing error.

 

I am less surprised from who find your post hilarious.

 

[transam]

9 hours ago, sandyf said:

And only time will tell who made the mistake.

Hope you have a good reason up your sleeve to tell the grandkids how you ruined their future.

Was it a Christmas present.........?

 

[transam]

9 hours ago, sandyf said:

If you have to ask the question, you wouldn't understand the detail.

You haven't got an answer.........????

[pixelaoffy]

39 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

 

.....always in support of democracy.... is simply untrue, there is plenty of evidence of that on this page.

 

Anybody who speaks "always in support of democracy" would have no hesitation in unreservedly condemning undermining the democratic process by breaking the laws pertaining to it.

 

Anybody who speaks "always in support of democracy" would be calling for any second house to be fully elected.

 

Anybody who speaks "always in support of democracy" would be demandin the right for "WE THE PEOPLE" to vote for "our" head of state.

 

Anybody who speaks "always in support of democracy" would not undermine the democratically elected European Parliament by pretending that laws passed by them are un-democratic.

 

Anybody who speaks "always in support of democracy" would not support an electoral system where 40% of votes can trample 60% underfoot.

 

So, come on, let's hear your unwavering support for democracy.

You clearly know nothing about the functioning of the EU with that rant !  https://www.politico.eu/article/closed-door-democracy-is-not-worthy-of-council-of-ministers/

[pixelaoffy]

Imagine that , a French Gov Minister telling UK about 'punishing itself '.  Throwing stones in glass houses Monsieur

[Blue Muton]

9 minutes ago, pixelaoffy said:

You clearly know nothing about the functioning of the EU with that rant !  https://www.politico.eu/article/closed-door-democracy-is-not-worthy-of-council-of-ministers/

Firstly it was not a rant. Secondly I know more than enough to know that what I said is true.

[Opl]

24 minutes ago, pixelaoffy said:

Imagine that , a French Gov Minister telling UK about 'punishing itself '.  Throwing stones in glass houses Monsieur

imagine that,  Brexiteers telling "the EU wants to punish the UK";  When It's Always Someone Else's Fault . Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's  

Edited January 2, 2021 by Opl

[vinny41]

1 hour ago, Blue Muton said:

That the £120,000 fine was not imposed by the EC is a moot point, it still relates to illegal acts by and on behalf of the official voice of the leave campaign, one of a number of acts that was commited to undermine the democratic process. Why can't you simply be honest and admit that?

Both the leave and remain campaign groups broke electoral commission rules and a number of groups have been fined

[ICELANDMAN]

France bureaucrats speaking, I remember years ago France populations said no also with referendum but France bureaucrats don't care

[Blue Muton]

13 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Both the leave and remain campaign groups broke electoral commission rules and a number of groups have been fined

That is true, however one side was found to have commited minor offences (attracting minimal fines) whilst the other was found to have commited the most serious offences and were subsequently handed out the maximum penalty on multiple occasions. 

[vinny41]

3 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

That is true, however one side was found to have commited minor offences (attracting minimal fines) whilst the other was found to have commited the most serious offences and were subsequently handed out the maximum penalty on multiple occasions. 

Liberal Democrats fined £18,000 for breaches of campaign finance rules

The total sum, which nears the Commission’s maximum individual fine of £20,000, is made up of two fines. The first fine, of £17,000, was imposed for failing to provide acceptable invoices or receipts for 80 payments with a total value of more than £80,000.

https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/liberal-democrats-fined-ps18000-breaches-campaign-finance-rules

 

One of the offences that vote leave was fined because they provided one invoice instead of 8 seperate invoices for the same amount

even though the EC was informed that the supplier refused to supply 8 seperate invoices choosing instead to provide a single invoice.

[Nout]

11 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

If you're going to post manic depressive nonsense like this, at least state that it's your opinion rather than stating it as fact. 

The sad thing is that it is not just an opinion but a wish. Part of the remainer fantasy is the destruction and ruination of the UK. They are shameless.

Edited January 2, 2021 by Nout

[Blue Muton]

1 hour ago, vinny41 said:

Liberal Democrats fined £18,000 for breaches of campaign finance rules

The total sum, which nears the Commission’s maximum individual fine of £20,000, is made up of two fines. The first fine, of £17,000, was imposed for failing to provide acceptable invoices or receipts for 80 payments with a total value of more than £80,000.

https://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/liberal-democrats-fined-ps18000-breaches-campaign-finance-rules

 

One of the offences that vote leave was fined because they provided one invoice instead of 8 seperate invoices for the same amount

even though the EC was informed that the supplier refused to supply 8 seperate invoices choosing instead to provide a single invoice.

....whilst four years later the leave campaign continue to ilegally withold the source of a £400,000 donation. Surely you would agree that transparency is an essential element of democracy?

[Blue Muton]

3 hours ago, vogie said:

It must be desperation to rely on a morally corrupt organisation like the Electoral Commission to make a point.

 

 

Morally corrupt you say? Let's look at Peter Bone's record:

 

Consistently voted against equal gay rights: 0 votes for, 9 votes against, between 2008–2019

 

Generally voted against laws to promote equality and human rights: 1 vote for, 10 votes against, 3 absences, between 2009–2019

 

Generally voted against smoking ban: 3 votes for, 3 votes against, 1 absence, between 2006–2015

 

Consistently voted against allowing marriage between two people of same sex: 0 votes for, 4 votes against, between 2013–2019

 

Consistently voted against restricting the provision of services to private patients by the NHS: 0 votes for, 7 votes against, between 2011–2012

 

Almost always voted for reducing housing benefit for social tenants deemed to have excess bedrooms (which Labour describe as the "bedroom tax"): 14 votes for, 0 votes against, 4 absences, between 2012–2018

 

Consistently voted against paying higher benefits over longer periods for those unable to work due to illness or disability: 0 votes for, 15 votes against, between 2011–2016

 

Consistently voted against a more proportional system for electing MPs: 0 votes for, 4 votes against, between 2010–2020

 

Consistently voted against a wholly elected House of Lords: 1 vote for, 6 votes against, between 2007–2016

 

Consistently voted against removing hereditary peers from the House of Lords: 0 votes for, 2 votes against, between 2011–2016

 

Generally voted against transferring more powers to the Welsh Assembly: 3 votes for, 26 votes against, 4 absences, between 2014–2020

 

Almost always voted against transferring more powers to the Scottish Parliament: 5 votes for, 44 votes against, between 2011–2020

 

Generally voted against more powers for local councils: 15 votes for, 29 votes against, 5 absences, between 2010–2018

 

Almost always voted against a lower voting age: 0 votes for, 4 votes against, 1 absence, between 2005–2016

 

Generally voted against increasing the tax rate applied to income over £150,000: 0 votes for, 9 votes against, 3 absences, between 2012–2015

 

Generally voted against higher taxes on banks: 4 votes for, 9 votes against, 2 absences, between 2011–2018

 

Almost always voted for reducing capital gains tax: 8 votes for, 1 vote against, between 2010–2016

 

Voted for raising England’s undergraduate tuition fee cap to £9,000:  1 vote for, 0 votes against, in 2010

 

Consistently voted for ending financial support for some 16-19 year olds in training and further education: 2 votes for, 0 votes against, in 2011

 

Consistently voted for university tuition fees: 5 votes for, 0 votes against, between 2010–2017

 

Consistently voted for mass surveillance of people’s communications and activities: 3 votes for, 0 votes against, in 2016

 

Generally voted against measures to prevent climate change: 6 votes for, 19 votes against, 7 absences, between 2008–2020

 

Generally voted against financial incentives for low carbon emission electricity generation methods: 1 vote for, 5 votes against, between 2011–2018

 

Consistently voted against slowing the rise in rail fares: 0 votes for, 5 votes against, in 2013

 

Generally voted against greater regulation of gambling: 4 votes for, 5 votes against, 2 absences, between 2005–2014

 

Generally voted for restricting the scope of legal aid: 8 votes for, 1 vote against, 3 absences, between 2011–2014

 

Consistently voted against restrictions on fees charged to tenants by letting agents: 0 votes for, 4 votes against, 2 absences, between 2014–2018

 

So in summary, screw the ill, disabled and otherwise less well off, reduce taxes for the already rich and stuff the environment. And you want to use this guy as some kind of moral compass?

[vogie]

18 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

Morally corrupt you say? Let's look at Peter Bone's record:

 

Consistently voted against equal gay rights: 0 votes for, 9 votes against, between 2008–2019

 

Generally voted against laws to promote equality and human rights: 1 vote for, 10 votes against, 3 absences, between 2009–2019

 

Generally voted against smoking ban: 3 votes for, 3 votes against, 1 absence, between 2006–2015

 

Consistently voted against allowing marriage between two people of same sex: 0 votes for, 4 votes against, between 2013–2019

 

Consistently voted against restricting the provision of services to private patients by the NHS: 0 votes for, 7 votes against, between 2011–2012

 

Almost always voted for reducing housing benefit for social tenants deemed to have excess bedrooms (which Labour describe as the "bedroom tax"): 14 votes for, 0 votes against, 4 absences, between 2012–2018

 

Consistently voted against paying higher benefits over longer periods for those unable to work due to illness or disability: 0 votes for, 15 votes against, between 2011–2016

 

Consistently voted against a more proportional system for electing MPs: 0 votes for, 4 votes against, between 2010–2020

 

Consistently voted against a wholly elected House of Lords: 1 vote for, 6 votes against, between 2007–2016

 

Consistently voted against removing hereditary peers from the House of Lords: 0 votes for, 2 votes against, between 2011–2016

 

Generally voted against transferring more powers to the Welsh Assembly: 3 votes for, 26 votes against, 4 absences, between 2014–2020

 

Almost always voted against transferring more powers to the Scottish Parliament: 5 votes for, 44 votes against, between 2011–2020

 

Generally voted against more powers for local councils: 15 votes for, 29 votes against, 5 absences, between 2010–2018

 

Almost always voted against a lower voting age: 0 votes for, 4 votes against, 1 absence, between 2005–2016

 

Generally voted against increasing the tax rate applied to income over £150,000: 0 votes for, 9 votes against, 3 absences, between 2012–2015

 

Generally voted against higher taxes on banks: 4 votes for, 9 votes against, 2 absences, between 2011–2018

 

Almost always voted for reducing capital gains tax: 8 votes for, 1 vote against, between 2010–2016

 

Voted for raising England’s undergraduate tuition fee cap to £9,000:  1 vote for, 0 votes against, in 2010

 

Consistently voted for ending financial support for some 16-19 year olds in training and further education: 2 votes for, 0 votes against, in 2011

 

Consistently voted for university tuition fees: 5 votes for, 0 votes against, between 2010–2017

 

Consistently voted for mass surveillance of people’s communications and activities: 3 votes for, 0 votes against, in 2016

 

Generally voted against measures to prevent climate change: 6 votes for, 19 votes against, 7 absences, between 2008–2020

 

Generally voted against financial incentives for low carbon emission electricity generation methods: 1 vote for, 5 votes against, between 2011–2018

 

Consistently voted against slowing the rise in rail fares: 0 votes for, 5 votes against, in 2013

 

Generally voted against greater regulation of gambling: 4 votes for, 5 votes against, 2 absences, between 2005–2014

 

Generally voted for restricting the scope of legal aid: 8 votes for, 1 vote against, 3 absences, between 2011–2014

 

Consistently voted against restrictions on fees charged to tenants by letting agents: 0 votes for, 4 votes against, 2 absences, between 2014–2018

 

So in summary, screw the ill, disabled and otherwise less well off, reduce taxes for the already rich and stuff the environment. And you want to use this guy as some kind of moral compass?

Nice deflection but it does not alter the fact that the EC is extremely biased and corrupt.

[Blue Muton]

23 minutes ago, vogie said:

Nice deflection but it does not alter the fact that the EC is extremely biased and corrupt.

It was no deflection, it was simply adding context, not everybody would have known who Peter Bone is.

 

As for your "fact" about the EC being corrupt, would you care to share your evidence? What happened when you went to the police with your evidence? Didn't go to the police - then maybe you took it to the Mail or some other rag? Didn't share it with them? Or perhaps it's just something that you made up, without the need for any evidence, pray do tell.

[transam]

3 hours ago, Blue Muton said:

That is true, however one side was found to have commited minor offences (attracting minimal fines) whilst the other was found to have commited the most serious offences and were subsequently handed out the maximum penalty on multiple occasions. 

But, was Brexit cancelled, as you seem to think it was very serious issue...........?  ????

[baansgr]

16 hours ago, Bruntoid said:

Bizarre - ok I’ll open with a 2% drop in GDP (that means Gross Domestic Product), raise you with Loiners fish industry being sold down the river and throw in a future littered with tariffs if we step out of line with the worlds largest trading block.... is that enough detail as I could go on about sabotaging the younger generations future .....

 

So what you got ? ???? desperate for some brexiteer projections .....

How do you know of 2% drop in GDP...only left yesterday. I did ask for detailed...how has fishing industry been sold down the river and what exact tariffs will UK be littered with..how has younger generation s been sabotaged...as asked and will again..precise, exact detailed proven facts please

[vogie]

22 minutes ago, Blue Muton said:

It was no deflection, it was simply adding context, not everybody would have known who Peter Bone is.

 

As for your "fact" about the EC being corrupt, would you care to share your evidence? What happened when you went to the police with your evidence? Didn't go to the police - then maybe you took it to the Mail or some other rag? Didn't share it with them? Or perhaps it's just something that you made up, without the need for any evidence, pray do tell.

You have been shown enough evidence to substantiate the claims, should you wish to keep denying them is purely a matter for yourself, you are the one that introduced the biased Electoral Commission into the debate to justify your claim that the reason the Leave camp won was because of cheating. I am sure that you could go on for ever making these excuses, but quite frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.