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Is relevant Immigration Office obligated to accept "[ MEAN ] AVERAGE Income of THB 40,000 per Mnt. for preceding 12 Mnt.s" Condition -- communicated in document by that very Office to Applicant -- as being satisfied if it proven as met by Applicant ?


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Posted

Dear Fellow Thaivisa.com Posters,

 

Ref.

TITLE ;

Is relevant Immigration Office obligated to accept "[ MEAN ] AVERAGE Income of THB 40,000 per Mnt. for preceding 12 Mnt.s" Condition -- communicated in document by that very Office to Applicant -- as being satisfied if it proven as met by Applicant ?

 

THE CONTENTS OF ABOVE TITLE IS BASICALLY THE ESSENCE OF THE ORIGINAL POST ;

HERE BE THE TITLE RE-PHRASED FOR YER ADDED CONVENIENCE ;

Surely an Immigration Office's own written communication to the Applicant that "THE PER MONTH INCOME -- demonstratively sourced from overseas into Thailand -- THROUGHOUT THE 12 MONTHS LEADING UP TO THE APPLICATION BE ON AVERAGE THB 40,000" [ or words-to-that-effect ] obligates that Immigration Office to accept that condition of the Application as being satisfied if it is proven as met by the Applicant ?

 

Regards,

 

Our Man in the Tropics

 

 

 

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Posted

Most offices will not accept a average income of 40k baht.

I think they may be of the opinion that it only applies if your are legally working here and using your income from it to do the application.

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Posted

When I was practicing for such an event, as a conclusion on read very many posts, Embassy info, individuals info (though sometimes second hand)

 

 

I would have to send over >40k to the account in Thailand, every month, by online transfer, but activated manually the 1st or 2nd each month. method showed on statement as SWIFT i.e from overseas.

The transfers would be last calendar year's pension or previous ie. from savings. I would not intend to send in (Calendar) year income to Thailand. 

I could demonstrate sufficient UK income as legitimate source, but it does not align with the Calendar month, more like 25th of the the average month, to the 25th of the next month and some is quarterly or not uniform. 

 

I had not much confidence they would accept the average. I read a report of someone also using a £FCD account, and being rejected because the spot exchange rate was 200baht to low for one of 12 months. 

I suppose you would just have to try an engage with them in soft & cuddly mode, if in argumentative mode they will just go in the huff and reject.

If you have 12 plus transfers of similar value, and they are more totalling than 480k baht, I suppose it comes down to the officers training, personal attitude and that of his Boss....

 

I remain apprehensive about approaching any immigration in the future, though I've never seen a bad report on what could be the local office though. 

 

I wish you Good luck and tranquility  with your application

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Posted

Dear UKresonant,

 

Thank u for ur very useful & relevant & kind post ;

 

However,- I am confused with some of the content.

 

Content which I am confused by ;

 

1st

 

13 hours ago, UKresonant said:

I would have to send over >40k to the account in Thailand, every month, by online transfer, but activated manually the 1st or 2nd each month

2nd

13 hours ago, UKresonant said:

but it does not align with the Calendar month, more like 25th of the the average month, to the 25th of the next month

3rd

13 hours ago, UKresonant said:

and some is quarterly or not uniform

 

I understand the logic of u intending to send, from ur own funds, & ur own control, some amount > THB 40,000 from outside Thailand into Thailand every month

 

BUT -- BUT -- BUT

 

Ref.

Sequential Extracts of Quoted Text from U [ above ]

I do not satisfactorily for myself understand what u mean when u say :

 

"_ _ _ activated manually the 1st or 2nd each month"

FOLLOWED BY

"but it does not align with the Calendar month"

 

Surely, I ask, u would send the funds to align in most instances [ see note below Re ; 28 days Payments as example ] with calendar month regardless if ur particular immigration office uses "Average" Amount per Month policy ?

 

That ur funds align [ as incoming ] on 25th of each month then is troubling to accept from the all-controlling SWIFT system

 

Moreover that some other issues of this funds transfer align quarterly [ understood as 90 days in this context I argue ] is even more troubling to accept from the controversial SWIFT system

 

And,- the "some is" " _ _ _ not uniform"

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

 

That the incoming amounts, from say a  pension, arrive into ur Thai account on different dates  within each month is perfectly understandable ;

Such payments are normally "per 7 days payments" but more likely "per 28 days payments".

 

Were a pension from the foreign government, or 3rd party private body, strictly "per month" payments ;

==> u would be getting cheated for every month which has 31 days [ 7 months in total ], & u would be arguably cheating back during the month February.

Ditto were the funds from rental income.

 

Ref.

Per 28 Days Payments

Being payed every 28 days ==> the date within each month will shorten in most instances from the immediately previous month ;

Because 28 days is < than 30 days & indeed 31 days ;

 

And, inherent within the pattern of every 28 days entry of ur payment ;

In some instances u will receive 2 payments within the same calendar month

 

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.

OF COURSE, IT MAY BE ALSO THE CASE THAT UR WONDERFUL CIVIL SERVANT[S] IN THE SENDING COUNTRY MAY NOT SEND UR PAYMENT ON TIME ;

INTENTIONALLY

or

UNINTENTIONALLY

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

NOTE ;

Interlocutors would be BETTER to use the term

"12 M-O-N-T-H-S" [ Months ] Visa / Permission of Stay / Extension to Permission of Stay

INSTEAD OF

1 "Y-E-A-R" [ Year ] Visa / Permission of Stay / Extension to Permission of Stay

 

BUT -- BUT -- BUT

Interlocutors would be BEST to use the term

"365* D-A-Y-S" [ Days ] Visa / Permission of Stay / Extension to Permission of Stay

*I wonder ; What is policy for leap years & each year adjacent to leap year ?

INSTEAD OF

1 "Y-E-A-R" [ Year ] Visa / Permission of Stay / Extension to Permission of Stay

OR EVEN INSTEAD OF

"12 M-O-N-T-H-S" [ Months ] Visa / Permission of Stay / Extension to Permission of Stay

 

Regards,

 

Our Man in the Tropics

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Posted
36 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

To summarise : The immigration have rejected your claim / evidence of income of 40,000 per month for 12 months.

 

No true ;

Rather,-

My claim with evidence is of Income AVERAGING > THB 40,000 per Month for preceding 12 Months.

 

True ;

Immigration rejected my claim with evidence because they calculate that my Income does NOT average > = THB 40,000 per Month for preceding 12 Months.

But,- they are mistaken with :

A_

their input into their calculator

& / or

B_

their calculator calculations.

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Posted
27 minutes ago, Our Man in the Tropics said:

Immigration rejected my claim with evidence because they calculate that my Income does NOT average > = THB 40,000 per Month for preceding 12 Months.

Not sure how they could make a mistake. 

Total up your international transfers each month for the year and divide by 12.

Posted
5 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Not sure how they could make a mistake. 

Easy they lose track of the number of entries and only enter 11 transfers, then divide by 12.

Seen it happen.

 

 

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Posted

How difficult is it to send a fixed amount (40k, 65k) to your Thai bank on roughly the same day of each month, for each of the 12 months in a year, get a letter from your bank confirming this once a year, and showing it to your Immigration Officer?

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Posted
5 hours ago, Our Man in the Tropics said:

Immigration rejected my claim with evidence because they calculate that my Income does NOT average > = THB 40,000 per Month for preceding 12 Months.

 

According to the orders;

 

(6) In the case of marriage to a Thai woman, the alien husband must earn an average annual
income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month

Posted
4 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

How difficult is it to send a fixed amount (40k, 65k) to your Thai bank on roughly the same day of each month, for each of the 12 months in a year, get a letter from your bank confirming this once a year, and showing it to your Immigration Officer?

Quite difficult if you don't maintain a bank account in your home Country.

 

The UK state pension is paid every 28 days and they can transfer direct to your Thai bank account.

Similarly a private pension paid quarterly direct into your Thai bank.

When UK citizens could obtain Embassy Income letters this was never an issue.

Posted
6 hours ago, Our Man in the Tropics said:

Immigration rejected my claim

 

That’s all? It’s kind of surprising you didn’t get arrested, deported and blacklisted.

 

 

Posted
1 minute ago, Tanoshi said:

Quite difficult if you don't maintain a bank account in your home Country.

 

The UK state pension is paid every 28 days and they can transfer direct to your Thai bank account.

Similarly a private pension paid quarterly direct into your Thai bank.

When UK citizens could obtain Embassy Income letters this was never an issue.

My UK State pension is paid WEEKLY into the bank I nominate, and I can also say how often and to where my private one is paid.

A good idea would be to open a Transferwise Borderless Account, no UK address needed. Makes the monthly transfer even easier.

Posted
5 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Not sure how they could make a mistake. 

Total up your international transfers each month for the year and divide by 12.

But Joe, you said in post no2 that AVERAGING is not accepted at most IOs, and that's what you are suggesting. Six months say 20k, next six months 60k = average of 40k, but not accepatable. Does it not have to be a MINIMUM of 40k.

Posted
3 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

But Joe, you said in post no2 that AVERAGING is not accepted at most IOs, and that's what you are suggesting. Six months say 20k, next six months 60k = average of 40k, but not accepatable. Does it not have to be a MINIMUM of 40k.

I am aware of many office not accepting the average income based upon posts on this forum.

I don't think your example would be accepted. I would say the range would need be between 35k to 45k for example.

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Posted
13 minutes ago, KannikaP said:

My UK State pension is paid WEEKLY into the bank I nominate, and I can also say how often and to where my private one is paid.

A good idea would be to open a Transferwise Borderless Account, no UK address needed. Makes the monthly transfer even easier.

There are many elderly retirees in Thailand that can't use a PC and think the 'Internet' is a railway system.

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Posted
21 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

When UK citizens could obtain Embassy Income letters this was never an issue.

That was stopped for a good reason, along with the zero dollar Chinese tours ????????

Posted
1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

I am aware of many office not accepting the average income based upon posts on this forum.

I don't think your example would be accepted. I would say the range would need be between 35k to 45k for example.

I think many Immigration offices read that as an average annual income of no less than 40K per month.

The average annual income could be 500K, but one transfer of less than 40K would disqualify you.

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Posted
5 minutes ago, saakura said:

That was stopped for a good reason, along with the zero dollar Chinese tours ????????

What was that reason please?

Posted
On 1/6/2021 at 11:35 AM, ubonjoe said:

Not sure how they could make a mistake. 

Total up your international transfers each month for the year and divide by 12.

 

I brought certified Thai bank statement demonstratively showing my income arriving from a foreign country ;

By the way,- it is a pension.

 

And,- I brought along 1 sheet of paper with each of the income-entries compiled on it, by me in pen, showing :

 

A_

 

A_1_

per each month  :

Date [ Range ; 1-31 ]

Amount [ THB ] ; incl. Satang in 1/100 units

 

A_2_

cumulative order -- noted with tally-remark -- for the income amount treated in units of THB 1,000 solely

 

And, yes,- there are some instances of more than 1 income-entry from same source per respective months.

Regrettably,- such an instance spotted by the immigration staff from the bank statement became yet another fresh enthusiastic objection by a particular staff member who was, apparently, the leading rank visible there AND then.

Thankfully,- this enthusiasm accompanying the objection was not "very-very" but "very" ... only [ relatively speaking of course ; Further post will clarify this ]

I had to edify him as to how such instances stand to reason ;

And,- finally he relented.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

For convenience of the other readers in preparing to be fully adept in reasoning with this particular objection,- please see the part under the 1st chevron line in my reply to UKresonant's post above [ a post which on the whole is very useful, & relevant, & kind ].

I did not compose that for fun,- Lads / Guys ;

It is meant for yer benefit if it pertains to yee.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

B_

each income amount treated in units of THB 1,000 solely is multiplied by its frequency

each sub-total is summed to arrive at 12 months' total

12 months' total is divided by 12

Result ;

> THB 40,000

AND,- THIS RESULT WOULD BE EVEN LARGER IF I INCLUDED THE THB AMOUNTS LESS THAN THB 1,000.

 

BUT --- BUT --- BUT

 

This apparently highest staff visible there & then would not even look at it ;

 

Instead,- they are firm on their claim that they inputted all the relevant income amounts & performed the correct operations to arrive at the [ Mean ] Average for 12 Months ;

An average which is less than THB 40,000 per Month.

 

I expressed amazement that they were able to extract all the payments in such a short time from the Bank Statement ;

Because, I explained,- the smallness of the font in some places, & other events, in the statement warrant much more time to do this task properly.

And, anyway,- my calculation is > THB 40,000 per Month.

 

Meanwhile,- thank u again for ur keen interest, & helpful replies, Ubonjoe.

Ditto to others here ;

incl.

UKresonant

Tanoshi

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