got fired and defamed by a school

anddy · January 7, 2021

Hello, everyone! I was fired for illegitimate reasons (I have solid proofs against their reasons) and I received a notice (no witnesses, but according to the contract there must be some witnesses) from the school's principal that my contract will end on ** of November.

For revenge, I was actually fired more than two weeks before that date, this time without any notice and no reasons, my extension and my work permit were cancelled and when I went to other schools to apply for a job, they contacted the old school, which said bad things about me, things that are not true.

I received some messages from some schools I went to, saying that they do not want me because of the rumors they got from the old school. Not only this. There is no severance pay, I tried to contact the school, no answer whatsoever. The school is a municipality school.

I went to the Labor Court, they are willing to help me.

I have some questions.

Do I need a lawyer to file complaints for defamation and for the damage that has been caused?

I have a form from the Labor Court and a section says "other compensations". Can I write any amount of money?

I might not be accepted anywhere because of what happened.

What is the process?

What are the steps?

We will be called to the court?

Thank you for your answers!

uncleP · January 7, 2021

Defamation is a criminal offense in Thailand and would need to be reported to the police. A lawyer may be able to represent you but is it worth it financially? a decent lawyer may be able to pressure the school into desisting but you, the foreigner, start from a position of disadvantage. Win or lose it may suggest that your teaching career is over in Thailand either from misinformation or that you dare to stand up for yourself, however, there is a good chance you will get a result from the ministry of labour re your contract. is it worth the attention you would achieve for a couple of weeks salary?

Above is a list of considerations that may or may not help you decide what to do. Personally I think your time in Thailand is drawing to a close if teaching is the only way for you to survive. Korea pays well ????

mr mr · January 7, 2021

2 hours ago, anddy said:

illegitimate reasons

thailand. case closed. sorry to be so blunt.

Gumballl · January 7, 2021

There are two side to every story.

OP --- what did you do to <deleted> off someone?

moontang · January 8, 2021

How long did you work there? Why not use different employees as a reference. Unfortunately, educators rarely know proper business etiquette. You would think most would figure that out on their van ride to Vientiane.

Edited January 8, 2021 by moontang

Janner1 · January 8, 2021

On 1/7/2021 at 5:41 AM, uncleP said:

Defamation is a criminal offense in Thailand and would need to be reported to the police. A lawyer may be able to represent you but is it worth it financially? a decent lawyer may be able to pressure the school into desisting but you, the foreigner, start from a position of disadvantage. Win or lose it may suggest that your teaching career is over in Thailand either from misinformation or that you dare to stand up for yourself, however, there is a good chance you will get a result from the ministry of labour re your contract. is it worth the attention you would achieve for a couple of weeks salary?

Above is a list of considerations that may or may not help you decide what to do. Personally I think your time in Thailand is drawing to a close if teaching is the only way for you to survive. Korea pays well ????

Are you really suggesting that he walks away and does nothing?

If he has done nothing wrong and is completely innocent he has a duty to himself and every other teacher working any where in the world to defend his position.

Where ever he goes to find work this will follow him unless it is quashed immediately and expunged from any and all records, more and more countries are turning to police records kept across the world about the behaviour of teachers and walking away is turning innocence into full on guilt.

I suggest that if he is genuinely innocent and can prove it he must fight it, Foreigner or not, Thailand or not, we have rights.

Defamation is a criminal offence in Thailand and it must not be seen to be one sided

CharlieH · January 8, 2021

You have to remove emotion and consider cost against gain and practicality.

I would suggest you have a chat with a legal professional on realistic courses of action and probable outcome.

My comment would be to get ALL the facts first, then make an informed choice and decision.

moontang · January 8, 2021

19 minutes ago, Janner1 said:

Are you really suggesting that he walks away and does nothing?

If he has done nothing wrong and is completely innocent he has a duty to himself and every other teacher working any where in the world to defend his position.

Where ever he goes to find work this will follow him unless it is quashed immediately and expunged from any and all records, more and more countries are turning to police records kept across the world about the behaviour of teachers and walking away is turning innocence into full on guilt.

I suggest that if he is genuinely innocent and can prove it he must fight it, Foreigner or not, Thailand or not, we have rights.

Defamation is a criminal offence in Thailand and it must not be seen to be one sided

Police records are kept about those committing crimes, regardless of occupation. Kind of silly to imply there is a national database with remarks about your teaching. License suspensions would be a different matter, but that wouldn't be law enforcement, either. There have been rumors of a blacklist for teachers, but there was also one for schools, in LOS.

Janner1 · January 8, 2021

2 hours ago, moontang said:

Police records are kept about those committing crimes, regardless of occupation. Kind of silly to imply there is a national database with remarks about your teaching. License suspensions would be a different matter, but that wouldn't be law enforcement, either. There have been rumors of a blacklist for teachers, but there was also one for schools, in LOS.

Entirely without prejudice

I absolutely do not suggest or imply that the poster is any of the following

Believe me serious records are kept across the world about possible terrorists, Drug barons and kiddie fiddlers that is why when one enters Thailand they take a picture and your fingerprints, on top of that every hotel one books into will take a picture of ones passport which is then submitted to immigration the same day.

Correct me if I am wrong but I believe America ( the land of the free Ha ha) does the same and many other countries are following suit now

anddy · January 9, 2021

18 hours ago, moontang said:

How long did you work there? Why not use different employees as a reference. Unfortunately, educators rarely know proper business etiquette. You would think most would figure that out on their van ride to Vientiane.

I worked there for almost two years. The first year was pretty good and the beginning of the second year was the same, until the old head of department ~~left~~ was fired. He is Thai. Fired because he protected us, the foreigners, he did so many things for us, and the administration did not like to ask for his approval every time when something had to do with us. Also he told me that many other Thai teachers and foreigners do not enjoy working there. He can help me, I asked him. Other Thais and foreigners have quit because they did not like to work there anymore.

But still something has to be done. Also some students do not enjoy studying there. One of them told me that in her classroom all teachers are not good teachers, except one. Another one told me that a new teacher who came this year after my boss left defamed me during some of her classes to turn students against me.

Some students told me on FB that they miss me, a lot of students' evaluations say positive things about me, one of them wrote a paper where she says that I never did anything wrong and signed it... what more?

If I go back to my country, it is extremely difficult to get a good job in a good school with zero experience. So I should say where I worked.

17 hours ago, Janner1 said:

Are you really suggesting that he walks away and does nothing?

If he has done nothing wrong and is completely innocent he has a duty to himself and every other teacher working any where in the world to defend his position.

Where ever he goes to find work this will follow him unless it is quashed immediately and expunged from any and all records, more and more countries are turning to police records kept across the world about the behaviour of teachers and walking away is turning innocence into full on guilt.

I suggest that if he is genuinely innocent and can prove it he must fight it, Foreigner or not, Thailand or not, we have rights.

Defamation is a criminal offence in Thailand and it must not be seen to be one sided

Thank you! This is true. Also it can help me later to say where I worked, because I payed taxes here, too. So I must say where I worked. And I have enough proofs already, I think, to prove that I was fired for no reason. Even if they wrote some reasons in that decision, the date was not respected and I was actually fired more than two weeks before.

Thank you all for your support until now.

BritManToo · January 9, 2021

14 hours ago, Janner1 said:

Believe me serious records are kept across the world about possible terrorists, Drug barons and kiddie fiddlers that is why when one enters Thailand they take a picture and your fingerprints, on top of that every hotel one books into will take a picture of ones passport which is then submitted to immigration the same day.

Slightly off topic, but after 12 years in Thailand I applied for my first TM30 in order to procure a 1 year extension.

Chiang Mai Immigration stated their computer had no record of me ever being in the country.

Despite me living at the same address for 8 years and entering/exiting the country at least 4x a year and staying in many Thai hotels and guesthouses.

Serious records! ........ only in your imagination.

Back to the OP,

Sorry to hear about your experiences, it's the way Thailand is, learn to agree with everything everyone says (even if you disagree), say yes to every request they make of you (even if you never get around to doing it), and smile at everyone (even if you don't mean it).

AM I right in assuming you are Filipino?

Edited January 9, 2021 by BritManToo

Patong2021 · January 9, 2021

7 minutes ago, anddy said:

I worked there for almost two years. The first year was pretty good and the beginning of the second year was the same, until the old head of department ~~left~~ was fired. He is Thai. Fired because he protected us, the foreigners, he did so many things for us, and the administration did not like to ask for his approval every time when something had to do with us. Also he told me that many other Thai teachers and foreigners do not enjoy working there. He can help me, I asked him. Other Thais and foreigners have quit because they did not like to work there anymore.

But still something has to be done. Also some students do not enjoy studying there. One of them told me that in her classroom all teachers are not good teachers, except one. Another one told me that a new teacher who came this year after my boss left defamed me during some of her classes to turn students against me.

Some students told me on FB that they miss me, a lot of students' evaluations say positive things about me, one of them wrote a paper where she says that I never did anything wrong and signed it... what more?

If I go back to my country, it is extremely difficult to get a good job in a good school with zero experience. So I should say where I worked.

Thank you! This is true. Also it can help me later to say where I worked, because I payed taxes here, too. So I must say where I worked. And I have enough proofs already, I think, to prove that I was fired for no reason. Even if they wrote some reasons in that decision, the date was not respected and I was actually fired more than two weeks before.

Thank you all for your support until now.

Schools must honor labor code and law. You have your right to severance and notice.

However, is it possible that your contract was terminated on the basis of competency? Please do not say that you are TEFL or TESL because there are many errors in your writing.

Neeranam · January 9, 2021

7 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

Please do not say that you are TEFL or TESL because there are many errors in your writing.

I noticed that but thought of alcohol.

tomazbodner · January 9, 2021

47 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Chiang Mai Immigration stated their computer had no record of me ever being in the country.

Interesting. About 2 years ago at Swampy they stamped my PR book on arrival but forgot to stamp passport. Went back there a few months later when labour department pointed it out, and immigration took both passport and PR booklet and asked me to wait. Maybe an hour later the officer returned holding a printout of my entries and exits going back 10+ years at least, including those from land border crossings with Malaysia, on my current and obviously many previous passports. They surely are keeping records, at least for some of us.

moontang · January 9, 2021

They keep border control records, with TM6, but that is a far cry from records about Jose and Mary having sweat stains on their polyester blazers. Find a different circus. There are teaching jobs for anyone with a pulse, and it is likely there are some dead ones on the payroll, too.

VyacheslavKHV · January 9, 2021

You have to consult with lawyer and provide all details, otherwise it is hard to say.

They must pay severance, in amount of 3 months salary. Did you get a warnings before they fired you?

You can PM me, i have a huge experience with labor cases. About defamation need more details.

Scott · January 9, 2021

If you were fired for a serious offense and that usually means one that could lead to legal prosecution, then the school is on solid ground in firing you. Such things as hitting a child can get you dismissed immediately.

If it is violations of administrative functions, such as regular tardiness, excess absenteeism, etc., then the school needs to give written warnings prior to dismissal. You should be given a chance to change. If you don't, then the school can dismiss you.

Regardless of the situation, it is a good idea to visit the labor court, file a complaint and see how it shakes out. They tend to be quite understanding of the teacher's situation. You do not need a lawyer.

Best of luck and keep us posted.

CrunchWrapSupreme · January 10, 2021

You're not done teaching in Thailand. But you'll likely have to teach out in Issan, the rural provinces, where you can expect 30-40k. In my experience these schools/agencies do not ask for nor check references, nor require police reports.

Just be clean cut, dress nicely, be polite, and don't make trouble. Say yes and don't complain. Arguments aren't worth it. If they want you to do something ridiculous and you feel like complaining, just nod your head go oh yes, yes. But chances are, they don't really care about, nor will check on whatever it was they told you to do!

Especially given the current situation, schools are desperate for teachers. My former colleagues tell me of classrooms where the kids are left with vacant periods, given the shortage, as most foreigners still cannot enter. Just send them your CV, they want to get you in there.

You may, however, run into trouble with your teaching license waivers (have you changed schools three times?), and whether or not your former school has reported you to the Khurusapha, for the things you supposedly did. However, as been said, unless there's documentation of alcohol or abuse, then they should have nothing to report.

n00dle · January 10, 2021

On 1/7/2021 at 1:05 PM, mr mr said:

thailand. case closed. sorry to be so blunt.

Not in the least true. If his case is legitimate the labour board is actually more likely to rule in his favour, they are very heavily biased in favour of the employees.

In my time in thailand i, have known a number of peiple who have recieved very significant settlements.

One was illegally let go and and received compensation that amounted to the remaining time years on a multiple year contract after arbitration.

It was not a low paid position either

VyacheslavKHV · January 10, 2021

13 hours ago, Scott said:

visit the labor court

Not the court, but Labor Department in the school area.

Scott · January 10, 2021

On 1/9/2021 at 11:58 PM, n00dle said:

Not in the least true. If his case is legitimate the labour board is actually more likely to rule in his favour, they are very heavily biased in favour of the employees.

In my time in thailand i, have known a number of peiple who have recieved very significant settlements.

One was illegally let go and and received compensation that amounted to the remaining time years on a multiple year contract after arbitration.

It was not a low paid position either

I was once asked to discharge two teachers from the school by the Principal. I refused based on the grounds that there were no grounds. Neither of them had done anything that even came close to requiring dismissal. It was a matter of the Principal and Admin not liking them. They were fired, but not by me. They went to the Labor Department and both won. One received 3 months pay (and was advised to appeal for more). The 2nd received the entire pay for the length of the contract, which I believe was 6 or 7 months. The school didn't pay in a timely fashion and the amount was increased--the school was fined.

In my experience, the labor department isn't biased in favor of teachers. They are simply fair and give the teacher a fair chance to present their case. A lot of schools are not fair and their wish is to punish the teacher.

On 1/10/2021 at 5:14 AM, VyacheslavKHV said:

Not the court, but Labor Department in the school area.

Correct, the Labor Department.

bwpage3 · January 10, 2021

On 1/8/2021 at 4:03 AM, Janner1 said:

Are you really suggesting that he walks away and does nothing?

If he has done nothing wrong and is completely innocent he has a duty to himself and every other teacher working any where in the world to defend his position.

Where ever he goes to find work this will follow him unless it is quashed immediately and expunged from any and all records, more and more countries are turning to police records kept across the world about the behaviour of teachers and walking away is turning innocence into full on guilt.

I suggest that if he is genuinely innocent and can prove it he must fight it, Foreigner or not, Thailand or not, we have rights.

Defamation is a criminal offence in Thailand and it must not be seen to be one sided

At the extent this has blown up, he had to have done something bad that upset someone.

He never mentions the charge for some odd reason?

bwpage3 · January 10, 2021

On 1/8/2021 at 10:05 PM, anddy said:

I worked there for almost two years. The first year was pretty good and the beginning of the second year was the same, until the old head of department ~~left~~ was fired. He is Thai. Fired because he protected us, the foreigners, he did so many things for us, and the administration did not like to ask for his approval every time when something had to do with us. Also he told me that many other Thai teachers and foreigners do not enjoy working there. He can help me, I asked him. Other Thais and foreigners have quit because they did not like to work there anymore.

But still something has to be done. Also some students do not enjoy studying there. One of them told me that in her classroom all teachers are not good teachers, except one. Another one told me that a new teacher who came this year after my boss left defamed me during some of her classes to turn students against me.

Some students told me on FB that they miss me, a lot of students' evaluations say positive things about me, one of them wrote a paper where she says that I never did anything wrong and signed it... what more?

If I go back to my country, it is extremely difficult to get a good job in a good school with zero experience. So I should say where I worked.

Thank you! This is true. Also it can help me later to say where I worked, because I payed taxes here, too. So I must say where I worked. And I have enough proofs already, I think, to prove that I was fired for no reason. Even if they wrote some reasons in that decision, the date was not respected and I was actually fired more than two weeks before.

Thank you all for your support until now.

Through all of this, never admitting to "what" they fired you for?

Sounds odd they would fire a teacher after 2 years for no reason?

You must have done something to get the ball rolling or crossed someone?

What did they write in the decision to fire you? Those charges could determine if you ever get another teaching job or not.

What was the old department head protecting you from?

Why are you gossiping with students about other teachers?

How does a student know if you did anything wrong?

If you go back to your own country, Thailand teaching experience is worthless.

To many questions in this story.

If you are gossiping with students about other teachers and they are Thai, I can see why they got rid of you.

EricTh · January 10, 2021

So far I haven't heard the reasons that they gave for firing you.

Maybe we can be the judge of it whether you were illegally fired.

Where is this school situated i.e., the town.?

Edited January 10, 2021 by EricTh

EricTh · January 10, 2021

On 1/9/2021 at 10:17 AM, Patong2021 said:

However, is it possible that your contract was terminated on the basis of competency? Please do not say that you are TEFL or TESL because there are many errors in your writing.

As long as his English is much better than the students, he is qualified to teach.

The English standard of Thai students is so low that even bank officers can string a single sentence in English.

They use single words like 'Monday' with no verb or context.

Nout · January 10, 2021

On 1/8/2021 at 4:03 PM, Janner1 said:

Are you really suggesting that he walks away and does nothing?

If he has done nothing wrong and is completely innocent he has a duty to himself and every other teacher working any where in the world to defend his position.

Where ever he goes to find work this will follow him unless it is quashed immediately and expunged from any and all records, more and more countries are turning to police records kept across the world about the behaviour of teachers and walking away is turning innocence into full on guilt.

I suggest that if he is genuinely innocent and can prove it he must fight it, Foreigner or not, Thailand or not, we have rights.

Defamation is a criminal offence in Thailand and it must not be seen to be one sided

Nah. He should roll with it..put it to experience and move on. The other schools have listened and decided there is indeed a problem with this guy and its not just malicious gossip.

Golden Triangle · January 10, 2021

There are far too many anonymous threads on here recently, I'm not being nosey or Intrusive, if the guy wants some solid answers with some experience behind those answers then he has to open up and explain the situation he is in, you wouldn't go to the Dr and just say 'I don't feel well' and expect him to cure your problem would you ? OP, you can use some discretion in location, timings & other data but people that want, and can help you, are floundering in the dark at the moment.

Same with the other guy in a different thread about shopping a foreigner to the authorities, for what ??

CharlieH · January 10, 2021

Given the amount of removed posts here and the lack of information forthcoming which is fueling speculation and poor attempts at humor this is now CLOSED

If the OP would like to continue and has more relevant information, let me know and it can be re-opened.