U.S. House likely to consider Trump impeachment on Wednesday

[webfact]

U.S. House likely to consider Trump impeachment on Wednesday

By Susan Cornwell and Richard Cowan

 

U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) speaks to reporters a day after supporters of U.S. President Donald Trump occupied the Capitol, during a news conference in Washington, U.S., January 7, 2021. REUTERS/Erin Scott

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. House of Representatives expects to begin considering a second impeachment of Donald Trump on Wednesday, a top Democrat said on Monday after the president was formally accused of inciting insurrection ahead of last week's storming of the Capitol.

 

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer told his fellow Democrats the chamber would start the impeachment proceedings on Wednesday if Vice President Mike Pence does not respond to a request to invoke the 25th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution to remove Trump from office, a House aide said.

 

Passage would make Trump, a Republican, the only U.S. president ever to be impeached twice.

 

Thousands of Trump supporters stormed the seat of Congress last week, forcing lawmakers who were certifying Democratic President-elect Joe Biden's election victory into hiding in a harrowing assault on the heart of American democracy that left five dead.

 

The violence occurred shortly after Trump urged supporters to march on the Capitol during a rally where he repeated false claims that his resounding defeat in the Nov. 3 election was illegitimate. Many House Democrats and a handful of Republicans say Trump should not be trusted to serve out his term, which ends on Jan. 20.

 

Democrats formally introduced their impeachment resolution on Monday. It charges Trump with "incitement of insurrection."

 

"We have a president most of us believe participated in encouraging an insurrection and an attack on this building and on democracy and trying to subvert the counting of the presidential ballot," Hoyer told reporters.

 

As the House convened on Monday, Republicans blocked an effort to immediately consider a resolution asking Pence to invoke the never-used 25th Amendment to remove an unfit president.

 

"The U.S. House must never adopt a resolution that demands the removal of a duly elected president, without any hearings, debate or recorded votes," said Republican Representative Alex Mooney, who raised the objection.

 

The House is expected to vote on Tuesday evening on the resolution for use of the 25th Amendment, which allows the vice president and the Cabinet to remove a president who is incapable of fulfilling his duties.

 

Pence and his fellow Republicans have shown little interest in invoking the amendment, but House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and other Democrats have tried to ramp up the pressure on them to act against Trump. They called on Pence to respond within 24 hours after passage of the resolution.

 

"As our next step, we will move forward with bringing impeachment legislation to the floor. The president’s threat to America is urgent, and so too will be our action," Pelosi said in a statement.

 

Trump acknowledged a new administration would take office on Jan. 20 in a video statement after the attack but has not appeared in public. Twitter and Facebook have suspended his accounts, citing the risk of him inciting violence.

 

SECURITY CONCERNS

Washington remains on high alert ahead of Biden's Jan. 20 inauguration, which has been scaled back dramatically because of the raging COVID-19 pandemic.

 

The National Guard was authorized on Monday to send in up to 15,000 troops to protect the inauguration, and tourists were barred from visiting the Washington Monument due to threats of more violence from Trump supporters.

 

The FBI has warned that armed protests are being planned in the U.S. capital and in the 50 U.S. state capitals ahead of the inauguration, according to a federal law enforcement official.

 

The lawmakers who drafted the impeachment charge say they have locked in the support of at least 214 of the chamber's 222 Democrats, indicating strong odds of passage.

 

Democratic Representative Diana DeGette said some Republicans have privately expressed support for impeachment.

 

"I heard from several Republicans over the weekend, making sure I was okay, and saying how outrageous this was, and they said that they think this is impeachable. So I think if this comes to the floor, I think you may well see some Republican votes," she told reporters.

 

Pence's office did not respond to questions about using the 25th Amendment to oust Trump. A source said last week he was opposed to the idea.

 

House Democrats impeached Trump in December 2019 for pressuring Ukraine to investigate Biden, but the Republican-controlled Senate voted not to convict him.

 

Even if the House impeaches Trump again, the Senate, which is currently controlled by Republicans, would not take up the charges until Jan. 19 at the earliest.

 

Democrats' latest effort to force out Trump faces long odds of success without bipartisan support. It requires a two-thirds majority to convict and remove Trump in the 100-member Senate, where Republicans will have a slim majority until the winners of the recent Georgia runoff races are seated and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris is sworn in. Harris would be the tie-breaking vote in the chamber.

 

So far, only a handful of Republican lawmakers have said publicly that Trump should not serve out the remaining nine days in his term.

 

Some Democrats worry an impeachment trial could tie up the Senate during Biden's first weeks in office, preventing the new president from installing Cabinet secretaries and acting on priorities like coronavirus relief.

 

Biden said on Monday he had spoken to some senators about impeachment, and officials would check with the Senate parliamentarian about whether a trial could be conducted at the same time as other business.

 

"Can you go a half day on dealing with the impeachment and a half day getting my people nominated and confirmed in the Senate as well as moving on the (stimulus) package? That's my hope and expectation," he told reporters in Delaware after getting his second dose of the coronavirus vaccine.

 

(Reporting by Susan Cornwell and Richard Cowan; Additional reporting by Doina Chiacu, Lisa Lambert, David Morgan, Andy Sullivan, Patricia Zengerle, Steve Holland, Mark Hosenball and Andrea Shalal; Writing by John Whitesides; Editing by Scott Malone and Paul Simao)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2021-01-12

 

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[scorecard]

For US folks, if an impeachment actually starts does that automatically / instantly block trump from further activities. E.g. giving himself and family a pardon?

Edited January 11, 2021 by scorecard

[Scott]

9 minutes ago, scorecard said:

For US folks, if an impeachment actually starts does that automatically / instantly block trump from further activities. E.g. giving himself and family a pardon?

No.  It does not limit any of his presidential powers.  

 

[scorecard]

2 minutes ago, Scott said:

No.  It does not limit any of his presidential powers.  

 

Thanks, is it true to say that nothing can block him from self/family/crony pardons?

 

Can he pardon someone say within 24 hrs of officially leaving the job?

Edited January 11, 2021 by scorecard

[Scott]

He still has full powers of pardon and can pardon pretty much anyone for any federal crime or criminal charges, but it is questionable whether he can pardon himself.  

 

[ExpatOK]

Well, finally, something to unite the country.  Anti Trumpers are chomping at the bit for a trial as are Trump supporters. Looks like Trump will present evidence that the courts refused to hear.

 

 

[simple1]

21 minutes ago, ExpatOK said:

Well, finally, something to unite the country.  Anti Trumpers are chomping at the bit for a trial as are Trump supporters. Looks like Trump will present evidence that the courts refused to hear.

 

 

 

 

Get over it - trump has lost re-election, House and Senate, first incumbent president since 1932 to do so. Now to the rebuttal of trump's false allegations...

 

https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/us-politics/donald-trump-says-judges-have-refused-to-look-at-the-evidence-of-voter-fraud-is-he-right/news-story/d4f1fd532cfa6e9ccebc45793f0f6ab3

Edited January 11, 2021 by simple1

[J Town]

27 minutes ago, ExpatOK said:

Well, finally, something to unite the country.  Anti Trumpers are chomping at the bit for a trial as are Trump supporters. Looks like Trump will present evidence that the courts refused to hear.

I have a bridge to sell you.

[Berkshire]

8 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Get over it - trump has lost re-election, House and Senate, first incumbent president since 1932 to do so. Now to the rebuttal of trump's false allegations...

 

https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/us-politics/donald-trump-says-judges-have-refused-to-look-at-the-evidence-of-voter-fraud-is-he-right/news-story/d4f1fd532cfa6e9ccebc45793f0f6ab3

Interesting article.  Of course, that article contained FACTS...something Trump supporters are not the least bit interested in. 

[scorecard]

36 minutes ago, ExpatOK said:

Well, finally, something to unite the country.  Anti Trumpers are chomping at the bit for a trial as are Trump supporters. Looks like Trump will present evidence that the courts refused to hear.

 

 

 

Well that means that he has committed contempt of court by lodging actions and withholding evidence. Or in some countries (I don't know re the USA) he could be charged with deliberately interfering with the processes of justice (i.e. contempt of court). These are serious offences which would normally attract very large fines and even jail time.

 

Previously not giving the evidence just proves how scaly he is and proves that his claims of 'I am your president of law and order' is total bullshxx and is just another example (serious example) of his lack of ethics and morals, and lack of any respect whatever for the laws of the land.

 

 

Edited January 12, 2021 by scorecard

[mtls2005]

republicans claiming NOW is the time to move on and unite the country, after spending the last four years dividing it, bring to mind a quote attributed to Abraham Lincoln:

 

“Hypocrite: The man who murdered his parents, and then pleaded for mercy on the grounds that he was an orphan.”
 

[Jeffr2]

35 minutes ago, ExpatOK said:

Well, finally, something to unite the country.  Anti Trumpers are chomping at the bit for a trial as are Trump supporters. Looks like Trump will present evidence that the courts refused to hear.

 

 

You hear about this from OAN?  Too funny how some are still clinging to this violent and racist man.

[Jeffr2]

9 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

republicans claiming NOW is the time to move on and unite the country, after spending the last four years dividing it, bring to mind a quote attributed to Abraham Lincoln:

 

“Hypocrite: The man who murdered his parents, and then pleaded for mercy on the grounds that he was an orphan.”
 

Luckily, they're feeling the backlash now.  Finally.  Donors are leaving them in droves, sponsors are dropping them.  Fantastic news.  Time to rid congress of members like Cruz, Hawley, Meadows, Graham, etc.  All fully supported Trump's lies for years.

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, scorecard said:

Thanks, is it true to say that nothing can block him from self/family/crony pardons?

 

Can he pardon someone say within 24 hrs of officially leaving the job?

All his Presidential powers end the moment he leaves office, be that by resignation, guilty impeachment, 25th Amendment or making it to the end of his term.

 

As Scott says he can pardon whoever he wishes but there are open legal questions on the President’s power of pardon.

 

Can the President pardon himself?

 

This is widely discussed amongst Constitutional experts, the consensus seems to be that he cannot, but of course it would be for the SCOTUS to settle the question.

 

Can the President pardon some who has not yet been found guilty?

Can the President pardon someone without naming them individually?

 

Past Presidents have done this, but those pardons were never challenged in court. There are a number of legal arguments why such pardons might be over turned.

 

Finally can the President pardon a co-conspirator?

 

This, like the self pardon, is widely discussed amongst Constitutional law experts but again is a matter that could only be settled by the SCOTUS.

 

It is almost certain that a self pardon, pardons for members of his family/coconspirators and/or pardons for his followers who committed crimes, example those who attacker the Capitol, will be challenged.

 

The more pardons Trump issues, the greater the chance of his pardons being successfully challenged.

 

My expectation is he will issue a pardon for himself and his daughter, he’ll throw everyone else under the bus.

 

We are about to find out.

[mtls2005]

If (when?) he's impeached on Wednesday, I'm not sure it would be a good idea to accept The Medal of Freedom from him on Thursday?

 

Awkward.

 

Someone else agrees?

 

Belichick Won't Accept the Presidential Medal of Freedom From Trump

 

https://www.nbcboston.com/news/local/will-bill-belichick-accept-the-presidential-medal-of-freedom/2277351/

 

 

 

 

[welovesundaysatspace]

8 minutes ago, ExpatOK said:

Agree, but this will backfire on them as it will shed light on the crimes committed by his enemies.

 

80 year old Pelosi has overplayed her hand, again.

Are you going to rent a gardening center and invite Kraken Crank and Raging Rudy to announce how this new master plan is going to play out this time? 

[Jeffr2]

20 minutes ago, ExpatOK said:

Agree, but this will backfire on them as it will shed light on the crimes committed by his enemies.

 

80 year old Pelosi has overplayed her hand, again.

What?  It will shed light on the crimes committed by Trump and his enablers.  Like Rudy telling protesters be prepared for "combat"!!!

 

Come on.  You are OK with that?

[Berkshire]

20 minutes ago, ExpatOK said:

Agree, but this will backfire on them as it will shed light on the crimes committed by his enemies.

 

80 year old Pelosi has overplayed her hand, again.

If you're waiting for that mountain of evidence that Rudy promised, you're going to be waiting a long time.  Hint:  It doesn't exist.  By the way, whatever happened with that Hunter Biden laptop? 

[PAWNEESE]

President Trump is not the most intelligent of people is he.

 

He increased the maximum penalty for rioting to 10 years.  Because he considered Black Lives Matter type demonstrations were riots. 

 

Then he ON VIDEO / Live TV ... instigates / encourages / leads / instructs a riot.  He also previously on TV encouraged the violent 'Proud Boys' to be ready ("stand up and standby")

 

The instigator must get the max 10 years surely.  Especially as the rioters murdered and also violently attacked many more law enforcement.

 

Trump and them there others made a speech to the rioters just before sending them to the Capitol encouraging mayhem. He knew he had huge support from insurrectionists.

 

If they escape the jail time ..that they wanted for others doing less .. it will be a huge scandal. But they will get off.  The Republican party will protect him.

[animalmagic]

2 hours ago, ExpatOK said:

Well, finally, something to unite the country.  Anti Trumpers are chomping at the bit for a trial as are Trump supporters. Looks like Trump will present evidence that the courts refused to hear.

 

 

Evidence - Wikipedia

Evidence is something that is produced to support an assertion, any court will be happy to hear evidence for and against.  Relying simply on assertions and allegations to achieve a judgement in your favour will fail.  

The courts have so far refused to hear a litany of assertions and allegations for which there was no evidence presented to even suggest those allegations and assertions were true.

God told me, I know in my heart, it must be true because my cult says so are not examples of evidence!

These are simply evidence of belonging to Y'all Qaeda.

 

 

Edited January 12, 2021 by animalmagic
addition

[bunnydrops]

2 hours ago, ExpatOK said:

Well, finally, something to unite the country.  Anti Trumpers are chomping at the bit for a trial as are Trump supporters. Looks like Trump will present evidence that the courts refused to hear.

 

 

Maybe Giuliani will bring in a "star" witness

 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/giuliani-jake-angeli-capitol-riot/

[mtls2005]

48 minutes ago, ExpatOK said:

Agree, but this will backfire on them as it will shed light on the crimes committed by his enemies.

 

80 year old Pelosi has overplayed her hand, again.

 

So you're saying this is a good thing.

 

Thanks for that support.

[stephenterry]

Just section Trump under the 25th amendment for being medically incapable of carrying out presidential duties. I'm sure they can drum up a few doctors to confirm his mental instability.  

 

That should get rid of him for a very long time.

[J Town]

1 minute ago, stephenterry said:

Just section Trump under the 25th amendment for being medically incapable of carrying out presidential duties. I'm sure they can drum up a few doctors to confirm his mental instability.  

 

That should get rid of him for a very long time.

The problem is in the details. Pence is trying to play both sides. He doesn't want to invoke the 25th because of all the flak he'll get from 45 supporters, but if he doesn't, Pelosi will make a 2nd impeachment stick. I believe Pelosi gave Pence the ultimatum knowing full well Pence didn't have the stomach to perform the 25th and this makes him look weak and ineffectual. Say what you will about her, she is a master craftsman at politics.

[Jeffr2]

13 minutes ago, J Town said:

The problem is in the details. Pence is trying to play both sides. He doesn't want to invoke the 25th because of all the flak he'll get from 45 supporters, but if he doesn't, Pelosi will make a 2nd impeachment stick. I believe Pelosi gave Pence the ultimatum knowing full well Pence didn't have the stomach to perform the 25th and this makes him look weak and ineffectual. Say what you will about her, she is a master craftsman at politics.

I think Pence is very unhappy.  Trump left him to fend for him self during the attacks.

[welovesundaysatspace]

Just now, Jeffr2 said:

I think Pence is very unhappy.  Trump left him to fend for him self during the attacks.

And he knows the cabinet would leave him alone too. Because they’re all spineless bootlickers. 

[J Town]

Just now, Jeffr2 said:

I think Pence is very unhappy.  Trump left him to fend for him self during the attacks.

Pence should have known this would happen. He's had his lips glued to 45's behind for more than 4 years.

[Jeffr2]

3 minutes ago, chilli42 said:

I am sure it’s a decision they have not taken lightly for the reason you state.  It is most likely to elevate the separation of his supporters from the rest of the country.  I guess removing the threat of a Trump return to President 2024 is too big a carrot (or risk).  A political decision that will make Democrats feel good not a decision supporting healing of the country.  That said, history has shown time and again that complete annihilation of ones political adversary’s is a successful strategy.  

Who cares about the racist and violent Trump supporters.  Justice needs to be served.  That's what a majority of Americans care about.

 

A precedent needs to be set that these types of actions will not be tolerated.  From either party.  Change is desperately needed.

[cmarshall]

51 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Just section Trump under the 25th amendment for being medically incapable of carrying out presidential duties. I'm sure they can drum up a few doctors to confirm his mental instability.  

 

That should get rid of him for a very long time.

 

If it were that simple it would have happened already.  It's not up to doctors.

[stephenterry]

33 minutes ago, cmarshall said:

 

If it were that simple it would have happened already.  It's not up to doctors.

 

Pence has already been given an ultimation to invoke. So it is that easy.