Scottish nationalists set for record majority, boosting independence push

[vogie]

39 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

It's the English that are preventing it. Scotland returned 48 independence minded MPs out of 59. If it was in our power, we would be gone.

 

But our wishes are being denied by English MPs, so bleat as much as you like about wanting rid of us - the reality is that it is the English who are preventing us from going. 

The English didn't vote in your indy1, the Scots voted and prevented the SNP from partitioning the UK.

 

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

Scottish

 

Scottish Nationalism: Great.

Irish Nationalism:  Wonderful and Romantic.

Welsh Nationalism:  To be encouraged.

EU Nationalism: Great, but don't mention it.

French Nationalism: Yep great.

English Nationalism: Terrible, Evil.

British Nationalism:  Doesn't exist anymore.

(Unknown author)

 

 

 

English nationalism doesn't have to be terrible; unfortunately it has been stolen by some terrible people. 

 

I genuinely think it a tragedy that there seems to be a stigma to flying the flag of England. Hopefully it can rise with pride once more, but you need to disassociate it from the likes of Farage, Yaxley Lennon and the hard right who tarnish it. 

[vogie]

2 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

 

English nationalism doesn't have to be terrible; unfortunately it has been stolen by some terrible people. 

 

I genuinely think it a tragedy that there seems to be a stigma to flying the flag of England. Hopefully it can rise with pride once more, but you need to disassociate it from the likes of Farage, Yaxley Lennon and the hard right who tarnish it. 

Paint your nationalism any colour you like, but when the paint dries it is still nationalism.

[RuamRudy]

Just now, vogie said:

Paint your nationalism any colour you like, but when the paint dries it is still nationalism.

And nationalism is nothing more than a label. Deeds are what matters. 

[IvorBiggun2]

9 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

you need to disassociate it from the likes of Farage, Yaxley Lennon and the hard right

And what side does that staunch Scottish socialist George Galloway shout for????

Edited January 17, 2021 by IvorBiggun2

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

And what side does that staunch Scottish socialist George Galloway shout for????

 

The unionist side.

[IvorBiggun2]

6 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

And nationalism is nothing more than a label.

Is it? Try Googling 'nationalism'.

[KarenBravo]

If it happens I just hope they put up a hard border where you need your passport stamped.

[Somtamnication]

They won't survive. The EU rats told them that they are behind Turkey for EU acceptance. If they want to vote to live back in caves, go for it.

 

The welfare gravy train stops at Hadrian's Wall!

[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Is it? Try Googling 'nationalism'.

 

What is it if not a label? 

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, Somtamnication said:

They won't survive. The EU rats told them that they are behind Turkey for EU acceptance. 

Can you cite evidence for that, please? 

As Turkey's application was lodged in the 80's, has no other country joined the EU in that time? 

[sandyf]

On 1/14/2021 at 7:25 PM, placeholder said:

On the other hand, from an economic point of view, if leaving the EU is harmful to the UK, how much more so would it be for Scotland? The UK is by far Scotland's major trading partner. So the Scots should expect at least more decline in economic growth from it's break from the UK  than will be experienced by the UK in its break with the EU. 

Isn't that their decision to make?

[IvorBiggun2]

2 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Isn't that their decision to make?

Correct. It was made in 2014.

[transam]

6 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Can you cite evidence for that, please? 

As Turkey's application was lodged in the 80's, has no other country joined the EU in that time? 

So Turkey asked to join the EU 35 years back, application approved 17 years back, and they still haven't been let it, so how long do you think it would take a free Scotland, twice that...?   ????

After all, Scotters has nothing going for it at the mo, has it, except the Union.

[RuamRudy]

Just now, transam said:

So Turkey asked to join the EU 35 years back, application approved 17 years back, and they still haven't been let it, so how long do you think it would take a free Scotland, twice that...?   ????

After all, Scotters has nothing going for it at the mo, has it, except the Union.

I think you are missing the point. There is no queue. On the other hand, it did give you the opportunity to insult my country and demonstrate your ignorance once again. 

[transam]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

I think you are missing the point. There is no queue. On the other hand, it did give you the opportunity to insult my country and demonstrate your ignorance once again. 

Ignorance about what....?

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, transam said:

Ignorance about what....?

On this occasion, your lack of knowledge about Scotland's economic climate and prospects. 

[vinny41]

As of 2020, accession negotiations are under way with Albania (since 2020), Montenegro (since 2012), North Macedonia (since 2020), Serbia (since 2014) and Turkey (since 2005). Serbia and Montenegro have been described by former President of the European Commission Jean-Claude Juncker and Enlargement commissioner Johannes Hahn as the frontrunner candidates, and projected that they would join by 2025, during the next mandate of the European Commission.[2][3][4] Negotiations with Turkey are ongoing, but the pace has slowed due to objections from the EU to the Turkish government's response to the 2016 coup d'état attempt.[5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_the_European_Union

 

Turkey will be back on track once a change of leadership and Government takes place as the EU has provided Billions of Euros to Turkey as part of the accession process

[2530Ubon]

Wow this is still going on? Easy to sum up really.

 

If you don't want the Scots to have another referendum, after dragging them kicking and screaming out of the EU (A major change to the union) then you're not democratic. You're Chinese. China will stop at nothing to claim Taiwan and Hong Kong, no matter how much they want independence. Doing the same to Scotland isn't very British now is it?

 

If you will allow the Scots to choose their own fate, and don't patronize them, then they may surprise you.

Quite frankly though, If Sturgeon can convince them that she could get Scotland to join the EU, then I see Scotland finally leaving.

Who wouldn't want to be a member of the largest trading bloc & free movement of people in the world? Oh..., that's right, the English!

 

Although the English seem to have changed their minds...

 

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/explainers-55416939

24 December 2020

YouGov has regularly asked people the question: "In hindsight, do you think Britain was right or wrong to leave the European Union?"

During the last three months, on average, 39% have said that the decision was right, while 49% have stated it was wrong.

 

The divide looks even sharper when voters are asked how they would vote now in response to the question that appeared on the 2016 referendum ballot paper: "Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the EU or leave the EU?" In recent months, a handful of polls by ComRes, Deltapoll and YouGov have posed that question again. On average, they have found that 53% would vote Remain and 47% Leave - the same as at the end of January.

 

[transam]

3 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

On this occasion, your lack of knowledge about Scotland's economic climate and prospects. 

But you think Brexit is a financial disaster, when in fact you don't know the future, yet you think Scotters will do better alone, you also think the EU will take in another minnow, your stuff is in dreamland...

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

They gave the Scots a referendum and they voted to remain in the UK. A 'once in a lifetime' vote. That 'lifetime' isn't up yet just cuz the Nationalists lost.

Absolute garbage, when asked nobody has ever provided proof that "once in a lifetime" or "once in a generation" appeared in the text of the Referendum Bill. It was a personal comment by Alex Salmond that has been taken out of context to suit the unionist agenda and has no legal basis.

For those that want a legal reference, look to the Belfast Agreement, drawn up with the UK government where it was agreed that there would be 7 years between referendums on self determination.

By my reckoning, under that precedent, Scotland has the right to hold another referendum in 2021, but it will probably end up with the courts making the decision.

 

Before making ridiculous comments, some should remember it will not be the SNP that decides if Scotland becomes independent or not, it will be a choice made by the people of Scotland.

[transam]

9 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Absolute garbage, when asked nobody has ever provided proof that "once in a lifetime" or "once in a generation" appeared in the text of the Referendum Bill. It was a personal comment by Alex Salmond that has been taken out of context to suit the unionist agenda and has no legal basis.

For those that want a legal reference, look to the Belfast Agreement, drawn up with the UK government where it was agreed that there would be 7 years between referendums on self determination.

By my reckoning, under that precedent, Scotland has the right to hold another referendum in 2021, but it will probably end up with the courts making the decision.

 

Before making ridiculous comments, some should remember it will not be the SNP that decides if Scotland becomes independent or not, it will be a choice made by the people of Scotland.

 

[2530Ubon]

23 minutes ago, transam said:

 

Love him or hate him, he is a funny chap. Personally I hover between loathing & dislike.

 

However, it should be noted that he didn't answer the honorable gentlemans question, he avoided it. One in a generational vote was never a 'promise' or the legal wording of the bill. I think that's how Boris dismissed his 350 million a week to the NHS instead of the EU 'promise' - It was never a promise, it was a catchy slogan to get people to vote.

 

The UK is a democracy. Not an all controlling communist society such as the one that sees Hong Kong and Taiwan binded to China. Or is it?

 

No one can deny that leaving the EU is a game changer. The Scots voted to stay in the UK whilst the UK was also a member of the EU. Now that it isn't, and business / common folks lives have been upended since the 1st of January, then it is fair to re-asses the situation.

80.6% of the economy has NO DEAL in place (services). We got some 'happy British fish back' as Mogg says, but what about our money? Currently it's leaving London and headquartering in the EU.

Put it this way. Let's say Boris said the conservative party is now no longer the conservative party - now it will be a communist party, and therefore the UK is now a totalitarian regime with no more voting to be had. And because you all voted for him a couple of years back, that is enough for him to completely change the makeup of our society, and there shall be no further say on the issue. I think that would go down like a lead balloon.

Edited January 17, 2021 by 2530Ubon

[youreavinalaff]

It does make me laugh.

 

These people who are saying they have the right to another independence referendum.

 

Just imaging if the EU referendum had gone the way of remain and the leavers demanded another one.

 

The Scottish nationalists would have gone mad. "Oh no. You had your referendum. It was remain. Can't have another one. Don't be silly".

 

Now look at them. ????????????

[IvorBiggun2]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

Absolute garbage, when asked nobody has ever provided proof that "once in a lifetime" or "once in a generation" appeared in the text of the Referendum Bill. It was a personal comment by Alex Salmond that has been taken out of context to suit the unionist agenda and has no legal basis.

Absolute rubbish. It was Sturgeon that made  the statement, not Salmond.

 

Quote

 

.

 

Nicola Sturgeon said she hoped people would seize the "once in a lifetime opportunity for Scotland" in next year's independence vote.

 

 

[2530Ubon]

13 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Absolute rubbish. It was Sturgeon that made  the statement, not Salmond.

 

Ok, now we all know that you are commenting on a topic that you haven't the foggiest idea about.

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, youreavinalaff said:

It does make me laugh.

 

These people who are saying they have the right to another independence referendum.

 

Just imaging if the EU referendum had gone the way of remain and the leavers demanded another one.

 

The Scottish nationalists would have gone mad. "Oh no. You had your referendum. It was remain. Can't have another one. Don't be silly".

 

Now look at them. ????????????

Do you think brexit has changed the situation?

Edited January 17, 2021 by stevenl

[youreavinalaff]

4 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Do you think brexit has changed the situation?

No.

[IvorBiggun2]

1 hour ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

Nicola Sturgeon said she hoped people would seize the "once in a lifetime opportunity for Scotland" in next year's independence vote.

 

1 hour ago, 2530Ubon said:

Ok, now we all know that you are commenting on a topic that you haven't the foggiest idea about.

It all boils down to ones interpretation of who said what. May be a read of this

Quote

 https://www.thenational.scot/news/18159096.fact-check-claim-snp-vowed-indyref-once-lifetime-opportunity/

 will clear things up?

[2530Ubon]

5 minutes ago, IvorBiggun2 said:

 

It all boils down to ones interpretation of who said what. May be a read of this

 will clear things up?

 

It was always Salmonds phrase. He even goes so far as to say that this is HIS personal view, mentioning previous generational referendums on other topics such as the EU. This video (only 2 mins long) should clarify it for you. As he also say's this is HIS personal view, that also throws out the old argument about 'It's a once in a blah blah..." It was his personal view, not a legal opinion. Unfortunately I can't embed the video, it needs to be watched on the BBC news site.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-scotland-29196661