Adding an earth to a 15th floor 20 year old condo.

[najomtiensun]

Hi there hoping one of you knowledgeable fellows can help us. We have a 15th floor 20 year old condo that doesn't have an earth. There is a relatively new fuse box with separately rated breakers and several different circuits on it. I have never used the shower even though it works as I have a fear of electricity and Thai bathrooms. So we bought a new shower from Powerbuy and the staff came to fit it today. They had one look at it and said we need an earth. 

 

Now I know the best and most expensive solution would be to rewire the condo - but that's not going to happen. Looking in the corridor I can see there is a metal water pipe which would make a relatively easy path for an bonded earth wire to go from there and add a third wire to the shower without too much trouble. Obviously I will get the best electrician I can find to  it so my question is ; 

 

Is this easily and safely doable from what I have outlined. And secondly can anybody recommend a good and affordable electrician in Jomtien who would be suitable and what would be reasonable price for the job. Many thanks in advance for any help that could be offered. 

[Crossy]

Older condos are always going to be fun.

 

Are you sure there's no earth in your distribution board? Could you post a photo with the lid off so we can be sure (care please).

 

A metal pipe is likely to be a good earth but don't use the fire pipe and it would be best to make any connection inside your unit or you may attract the wrath of the condo management.

 

If there's any building steel that's accessible that would also be a good bet.

 

You may find the condo have a "recommended" (use is required) sparks so the office is a good place to start.

[bankruatsteve]

You need to check if the metal pipe actually makes a ground connection.  If so, that would be a good source of earth.  Another option would be to see if there is exposed structural steel as that is also good earth.

[najomtiensun]

Many thanks for your quick replies sounds like one to have a word with the office. Here's a couple of photos.

 

 

Edited January 15, 2021 by najomtiensun

[Dumbastheycome]

I'm sure Crossy would appreciate a photo of the switch board  with the cover removed to  view internals

[bankruatsteve]

10 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Could you post a photo with the lid off

 

[Crossy]

Is that pipe available inside the condo?

 

Also, is this a rental unit or yours?

 

And, of course a photo of the board with the cover off (care please).

[najomtiensun]

5 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

 

Cheers here you go ....

[najomtiensun]

2 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Is that pipe available inside the condo?

 

Also, is this a rental unit or yours?

 

And, of course a photo of the board with the cover off (care please).

We are the owners - the pipe is outside the unit in the corridor. 

[xylophone]

The only problem you could have if you use a metal water pipe, is what happened decades ago in the UK when metal water pipes were used as earths.......very often some of the pipes, or part of the pipe network were replaced with plastic pipes and fittings, so you didn't have an earth in effect.

 

The other thing was that if many people had used the same metal pipe as an earth, then if there was minor leakage to earth over time, using that pipe, then it would corrode the pipe and you would get a water leak.
 

[Dumbastheycome]

OOPs! Earth bar  quite  naked !

[najomtiensun]

1 minute ago, xylophone said:

The only problem you could have if you use a metal water pipe, is what happened decades ago in the UK when metal water pipes were used as earths.......very often some of the pipes, or part of the pipe network were replaced with plastic pipes and fittings, so you didn't have an earth in effect.

 

The other thing was that if many people had used the same metal pipe as an earth, then if there was minor leakage to earth over time, using that pipe, then it would corrode the pipe and you would get a water leak.
 

So being on the 15th floor sounds fairly problematic. We were getting used to having cold showers and we could take the unit back if it all proves undoable. 

[Crossy]

1 minute ago, Dumbastheycome said:

OOPs! Earth bar  quite  naked !

 

Yeah, that's a shame, I've seen units that take an earth to the board then no further.

 

Task A is to talk to the condo management to see if they have a sparks available, then get him to look at the issue. 

 

The risk of corrosion to the pipe is small with AC, a DC current is a whole different ball game (there can be significant problems with DC traction railways), but as noted earlier if they replace the pipe with plastic ...

 

I would also think about adding earth-leakage protection to that board.

[najomtiensun]

1 minute ago, Crossy said:

 

Yeah, that's a shame, I've seen units that take an earth to the board then no further.

 

Task A is to talk to the condo management to see if they have a sparks available, then get him to look at the issue. 

 

The risk of corrosion to the pipe is small with AC, a DC current is a whole different ball game (there can be significant problems with DC traction railways), but as noted earlier if they replace the pipe with plastic ...

 

I would also think about adding earth-leakage protection to that board.

Many thanks for all your help. I will do as you suggest and update the thread when I have a response. 

[xylophone]

4 minutes ago, najomtiensun said:

So being on the 15th floor sounds fairly problematic. We were getting used to having cold showers and we could take the unit back if it all proves undoable. 

Just a suggestion, and possibly something to think about....... if the service duct outside of your condo goes all the way to the ground, which it did in many older condominium structures, then you could feed a good-sized earth wire through it to the actual ground, probably where the water pipes enter the building and do something from that perspective.

[najomtiensun]

It did cross my mind  the condo has a open undercroft about a meter high so I suppose it is technically feasible. 

[Dumbastheycome]

1 minute ago, xylophone said:

Just a suggestion, and possibly something to think about....... if the service duct outside of your condo goes all the way to the ground, which it did in many older condominium structures, then you could feed a good-sized earth wire through it to the actual ground, probably where the water pipes enter the building and do something from that perspective.

Here I was  thinking  maybe  rappelling down the outside  wall with a large roll of  earth wire clipping it on on the way down !

Just  joking. Maybe  ! lol

[tifino]

10 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Here I was  thinking  maybe  rappelling down the outside  wall with a large roll of  earth wire clipping it on on the way down !

Just  joking. Maybe  ! lol

throw the 'Sparks' over.................  he's authorised to go ???? 

[BigT73]

I was in the same situation on lvl 15 with no earth.  Apparently they had pro-vised it through the lift shaft which no condo had connected to it.  I just had to supply copper wire and the maintenance man ran it thru the ceiling grids.

Just ask building management or the maintenance man.

[xylophone]

17 minutes ago, Dumbastheycome said:

Here I was  thinking  maybe  rappelling down the outside  wall with a large roll of  earth wire clipping it on on the way down !

Just  joking. Maybe  ! lol

Not so far from the truth.........again when I was an electrical technician in my younger days, a couple of us had to run a copper earthing strip (as a lightning conductor) down the outside of a very high chimney, in a brickworks factory, so you can imagine how high the chimney was.

 

Luckily the "Hilti" guns had just hit the market, so it was a pretty easy job to fix it, but only if you liked heights!!

Edited January 15, 2021 by xylophone

[Natai Beach]

1 hour ago, najomtiensun said:

. I have never used the shower even though it works

 Welcome to the forum Sir.

 

What country are you from?

[lopburi3]

It is my understanding that good ground points can normally be found in elevator shaft so would ask about that as should not be too long a run to your condo.  

[najomtiensun]

21 minutes ago, Natai Beach said:

 Welcome to the forum Sir.

 

What country are you from?

Hi there and thanks for the welcome. The UK. 

[itsari]

If you are on the top floor of the building it could be possible to use a hot water tank that would be far less risk compared to a instantaneous hot water service without an earth .

[najomtiensun]

I'm not on the top floor but I have noticed the corridor has square suspended lightweight ceiling tiles that can be pushed up so running a cable to the lifts would be quite easy if that has a reliable earth. I have left a message on our condo bulletin board so no doubt some one will turn up shortly with the local potential solution. 

Edited January 16, 2021 by najomtiensun

[bankruatsteve]

7 minutes ago, najomtiensun said:

suspended lightweight ceiling tiles

What are the hangers attached to?  If steel, there you go.

[najomtiensun]

18 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

What are the hangers attached to?  If steel, there you go.

To my untutored eye this looks good.I trust any sparkie worth their salt can measure the potential of metal in here as to it's suitability as an earth and then run it to the circuit box ?

 

 

[PGSan]

21 hours ago, tifino said:

throw the 'Sparks' over

I’d get Crossy in to do such technical stuff.

Edited January 16, 2021 by PGSan

[xylophone]

2 minutes ago, PGSan said:

I’d get Crosby in to do such technical stuff.

What about Stills and Nash (and Young)??

Edited January 16, 2021 by xylophone

[PGSan]

2 minutes ago, xylophone said:

What about Stills and Nash??

Go for it!  With you on vibes?