Plunging birth rate a major cause for concern in Thailand

[mommysboy]

It's expensive to bring up kids these days.  Also, increasing numbers of women simply don't want children

[Autonuaq]

the problem is the media showing western style, the western way of living that Thailand has adopted in a short time. education and the length of education are all known for  causing the birth rate dropping. 

 

medial healthcare makes the gene polls survive that never would have survived. 

medical health care also make that more children reach the age of 23.

 

so actually one couple needs to have 3 children also to compensate for the couples and singles that have not children or cannot get children.

because children look after the care of the parents and others.

 

therefore the best would be that children up to 21 years have full support to study, educate and learn and all older pay for this. But that is too social as we know an will not happen.

[bangon04]

13 hours ago, darksidedog said:

I feel the problem is less one of fertility and more one about finance. Raising kids is not cheap and many Thais have worked out that none, one or two is better for them than half a dozen hungry mouths to feed.

wow - maybe the average Thai has worked out that educating, medicating, feeding and protecting 2 healthy well-adjusted children is somehow better than watching 10 kids die prematurely in poverty????  go figure....

https://populationmatters.org/about-us?gclid=CjwKCAiA65iBBhB-EiwAW253W01-YgttKPWdlFN2nkqGG0jvISe4Zux1Q7_-9qLZCVLFLc88DuOfcBoCjRoQAvD_BwE

 

not a third world country after all. The Chinese already knew this....

[impulse]

14 hours ago, webfact said:

Plunging birth rate a major cause for concern in Thailand

 

More of you guys need to step up to the plate...

 

[Time Traveller]

The biggest problem for Thailand's population is not Down syndrome or low birthrates, it's inbreeding. 

It's completely decimated the mental ability of the leaders and people in power in this nation.  Low birthrate was entirely predictable and I told them that at the time when that moron Meechai was going around promoting sterilization programs in the 80s and 90s. 

Well, they got what they wanted. Expect continued mental decline in the population of Thailand as it gets overtaken by other younger more lean and agile countries. Good for them

Edited February 12, 2021 by Time Traveller

[tingtong]

Interesting how sentiment swings from one radical end to the other....

Earth is overpopulated vs. we need more kids.

 

As for Thailand, there is just about zero family friendly solutions to encourage child births.

70% of collage and uni degrees seem to go for girls, who anyhow highly materialistic here and will choose to chase money and status and snob to marry down.

 

The government even at hard times busy promoting scam programs like we travel together, never the free meal for every kids, or free school uniforms, or free electricity for up to 500thb for every family, etc.

 

Apart, it somewhat controversial to read the doomsday speech about won't have enough workers, when the very same time millions have just lost their jobs here too, and admittedly tourism won't be in same level for years to come...ie million ppl may be searching for jobs...

 

 

[gazzzz]

16 hours ago, KhunKenAP said:

I am willing to help any young Thai ladies with their problem.

This is the comment I was looking for, before I wrote it myself!

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, new2here said:

plus many of the women also said that they’d finished university and now would like to work and develop a career based on their degree

As in Japan and Singapore. Governments in both countries are apparently concerned that educated women no longer want to breed, preferring to have a good life instead.

I read that in Singapore the government was actively trying to get educated women to get married and have children, but I doubt they are having much success.

If I was a woman, no way I'd be getting pregnant- too many downsides IMO.

 

 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, tingtong said:

Interesting how sentiment swings from one radical end to the other....

Earth is overpopulated vs. we need more kids.

 

As for Thailand, there is just about zero family friendly solutions to encourage child births.

70% of collage and uni degrees seem to go for girls, who anyhow highly materialistic here and will choose to chase money and status and snob to marry down.

 

The government even at hard times busy promoting scam programs like we travel together, never the free meal for every kids, or free school uniforms, or free electricity for up to 500thb for every family, etc.

 

Apart, it somewhat controversial to read the doomsday speech about won't have enough workers, when the very same time millions have just lost their jobs here too, and admittedly tourism won't be in same level for years to come...ie million ppl may be searching for jobs...

 

 

Apparently you have missed that Thailand isn't socialist. Free stuff paid for by other people is IMO for socialist western countries.

[thaibeachlovers]

3 hours ago, Time Traveller said:

The biggest problem for Thailand's population is not Down syndrome or low birthrates, it's inbreeding. 

It's completely decimated the mental ability of the leaders and people in power in this nation.  Low birthrate was entirely predictable and I told them that at the time when that moron Meechai was going around promoting sterilization programs in the 80s and 90s. 

Well, they got what they wanted. Expect continued mental decline in the population of Thailand as it gets overtaken by other younger more lean and agile countries. Good for them

 

Meechai was a great guy, IMO.

There are a few other countries that could IMO do with a Meechai of their own.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 hours ago, Autonuaq said:

the problem is the media showing western style, the western way of living that Thailand has adopted in a short time. education and the length of education are all known for  causing the birth rate dropping. 

 

medial healthcare makes the gene polls survive that never would have survived. 

medical health care also make that more children reach the age of 23.

 

so actually one couple needs to have 3 children also to compensate for the couples and singles that have not children or cannot get children.

because children look after the care of the parents and others.

 

therefore the best would be that children up to 21 years have full support to study, educate and learn and all older pay for this. But that is too social as we know an will not happen.

the problem is the media showing western style, the western way of living that Thailand has adopted in a short time. education and the length of education are all known for  causing the birth rate dropping. 

Are you saying that education is a bad thing? Seems like it to me.

 

Who is going to pay to educate children up to 21? Nothing is free,

[ChristianBlessing]

17 hours ago, stereolab said:

I suspect the team did not visit our area in North East Isaan, babies abound here.

I suspect the team used statistical data from all of Thailand, not casual observational data from one corner of the country.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, Isaan sailor said:

It would seem to me that if Thailand lifted the quarantine, and brought their Baht down, say 10%—then the tourist industry and exports would thrive, and good paying jobs would return.  When people have good income, they behave accordingly—procreate.

What good paying jobs were there before when tourism was booming? Most of those in the tourist industry were not earning "good" money, IMO.

[thaibeachlovers]

7 hours ago, dallen52 said:

No tourists, no farang.

No boom boom, no babies.

Are you unaware of those things for sale everywhere called condoms? IMO Only stupid bargirls that didn't care if they got HIV had sex without one.

[PatOngo]

4 hours ago, Time Traveller said:

I told them that at the time

Did they listen? 

[hotchilli]

19 hours ago, webfact said:

Plunging birth rate a major cause for concern in Thailand

That will all change come Sunday...

[soalbundy]

19 hours ago, nausea said:

Old stats., Japan is now 1.368, and to compound the problem I understand they have a downer on immigration.

 

Indeed, my SOs sister and her husband had one, they put her through college and she's now a lawyer; no way a couple of relatively poor farmers would've done that with a horde to feed, clothe, and educate (even basic schooling here costs).

In the farming villages there are lots of children the reason being that families are still intact as units. The grandparents are there to look after the children when the parents work during the day, often enough the parents work in Bangkok and the grandparents are full time carers, the parents visiting once a month. It works well, in turn the parents support the grandparents. In my house, apart from my own 13 year old son I have a 6 year old and  one year old girls from my step daughters who work locally during the day, it's a very harmonious relationship and we regard the girls as our own children, due to me speaking english with them they also have a rudimentary knowledge of english. Yes it can be hard work sometimes, especially with the one year old, but we also have neighbouring kids coming in to play and other grandparents visiting so the work gets dispersed, I'm often seen going for walks accompanied by 3 or 4 small children, there isn't the traffic problems in the countryside and we do daring things like going into the darkened temple and trying out the echoes. There isn't the consumer mentality here so the pleasures are simple but rewarding.

[hotchilli]

21 hours ago, webfact said:

The Total Fertility Rates - TFR - are now at 1.51 persons.

In line with the economy... Thais have figured out babies cost money.

No money no babies.... fix the economy & babies will come.

[hotchilli]

23 hours ago, webfact said:

Plunging birth rate a major cause for concern in Thailand

Maybe NCC1701A should go bareback?

[bipper]

22 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Not odd at all, whenever you give women a free choice, they choose not to breed with us.

Abortion + contraception = racial suicide.

Evangelical rubbish. Its economics. Most women want a family but they need both parents working to live. Proper education is expensive. This is a problem in every country outside the very poorest.

[BritManToo]

15 minutes ago, bipper said:

Evangelical rubbish. Its economics. Most women want a family but they need both parents working to live. Proper education is expensive. This is a problem in every country outside the very poorest.

Education (and healthcare) is free in the UK, I had 4 back there, didn't cost me a dime, my wife never worked.

They got loans  and grants for university, didn't cost me anything either.

 

Education (and healthcare) is supposedly free in Thailand, I have 2 here, but corruption costs me about 12Kbht/year for junior/primary and 24kbht/year for university, still not expensive but more than the Uk, my woman here chooses to work a little bit.

Edited February 13, 2021 by BritManToo

[Gecko123]

5 hours ago, soalbundy said:

In the farming villages there are lots of children the reason being that families are still intact as units. The grandparents are there to look after the children when the parents work during the day, often enough the parents work in Bangkok and the grandparents are full time carers, the parents visiting once a month. It works well, in turn the parents support the grandparents. In my house, apart from my own 13 year old son I have a 6 year old and  one year old girls from my step daughters who work locally during the day, it's a very harmonious relationship and we regard the girls as our own children, due to me speaking english with them they also have a rudimentary knowledge of english. Yes it can be hard work sometimes, especially with the one year old, but we also have neighbouring kids coming in to play and other grandparents visiting so the work gets dispersed, I'm often seen going for walks accompanied by 3 or 4 small children, there isn't the traffic problems in the countryside and we do daring things like going into the darkened temple and trying out the echoes. There isn't the consumer mentality here so the pleasures are simple but rewarding.

You paint this portrait of inter-generational bliss and harmony which, while quite touching and reflects well on your household situation, I seriously have to question how accurately it portrays the reality for most Thai families.

 

The 'granny-takes-care-of-the-grand-kids' model started breaking down several generations ago. As recently as 30-40 years ago, it was likely that the grandmother herself was raised in a two-parent household and received a healthy amount of parental love, care, and attention from her parents. She could in turn call upon the parenting she received as a model when called upon to stand-in as a parent for her own grandchildren. Nowadays however, because urbanization has been going on for decades, chances are that today's grandmothers were themselves raised by some family member other than her actual parents. As a result, chances are that those placed in a parenting role have childcare skills which have been degraded over time. Even if you take an 'it-takes-a-village' approach to raising children, chances are that many - if not most - other households in the village also have made stand-in parenting arrangements to one degree or another, so the entire child-rearing infrastructure in most villages just isn't what it used to be either.

 

Based on what I see, stand-in parents - whether grand-parents, siblings, neighbors - just don't really seem to be up to the job most of the time: a hands-off approach to providing academic or parental guidance, crappy diet with tons of junk-food snacks, with kids ending up spending most of their time hanging out with other kids in the neighborhood in similar circumstances.

 

You described monthly visits home to see the kids by the parents. I've been sitting here racking my brains if I can think of anyone in our village that fits that pattern. Most Thais in my village (and I suspect most Thais who work away from home) have six-day-a-week jobs, and work a significant distance away from the village, so returning to the village with any frequency is pretty much out of the question. My next door neighbor, who I would describe as a very family oriented guy with two young daughters and a loving wife, works as a driver for Isuzu, and only comes home for brief visits every once in a blue moon. Another guy has a landscaping job at some hospital facility maybe 100 km away, same story. Most of these guys go off to work without coming home for so long I start wondering or end up asking if they've died or gotten a divorce. I can't think of anybody coming back on a monthly basis.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I question whether your experience (a household headed up by an older(?) foreign guy who has the resources to care for an extended step-family) really should be used as a template to evaluate how well traditional inter-generational households are withstanding economic pressures like farm mechanization and urbanization.

 

Edited February 13, 2021 by Gecko123

[billd766]

15 hours ago, Isaan sailor said:

It would seem to me that if Thailand lifted the quarantine, and brought their Baht down, say 10%—then the tourist industry and exports would thrive, and good paying jobs would return.  When people have good income, they behave accordingly—procreate.

45 thb = 1 GBP would be nice, but 50 would be nicer.

[orchidfan]

7 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

As in Japan and Singapore. Governments in both countries are apparently concerned that educated women no longer want to breed, preferring to have a good life instead.

I read that in Singapore the government was actively trying to get educated women to get married and have children, but I doubt they are having much success.

If I was a woman, no way I'd be getting pregnant- too many downsides IMO.

 

 

When I lived in Singapore many years ago there was a very Govt campaign to get INTELLIGENT women to marry INTELLIGENT men....to raise the IQ of the next generation. Live didn't come into it.

 

Also a huge campaign to teach and learn Mandarin. Mr Lee knew how important this was going to be in the future !

[berrec]

Re:

A big rise in people giving birth to children with Down syndrome is also happening. 

 

Women under 35 have a 1 in 800 chance of giving birth to a baby with Downs syndrome. For over 35 it is 1 in 350. For over 40s it rises to 1 in a 100.

 

This is really a concerning factor for any country; increases the physical, mental and financial strain and burden on families, services and the individual. 

[Moo 2]

Do parents get Social Benefits for children until they reach the age of 16? If not, here is the biggest problem.

Cost of living in past 5 years has been going through the roof (about 30%), thanks to the Junta. Therefore couples don't see much improvement for as long as this government will stay in place.

[spidermike007]

I totally understand why the birth rates are plunging, and I think it is an incredibly positive thing for society, the smart ones making these choices, the environment, and the planet. 

 

It is quite possible if the army resigned, the birth rates would increase. Right now, many of the youth just do not see a way forward with the dinosaurs in charge. The future has to look bleak to them, and these young folks represent  the hopes and dreams of the nation. 

[Peterphuket]

19 hours ago, Airalee said:

Completely understand.  It’s population growth that matters...so....be more like these countries...

 

Can you imagine, only countries in Africa.

You wish they had the lowest population growth rate.

[soalbundy]

2 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

You paint this portrait of inter-generational bliss and harmony which, while quite touching and reflects well on your household situation, I seriously have to question how accurately it portrays the reality for most Thai families.

 

The 'granny-takes-care-of-the-grand-kids' model started breaking down several generations ago. As recently as 30-40 years ago, it was likely that the grandmother herself was raised in a two-parent household and received a healthy amount of parental love, care, and attention from her parents. She could in turn call upon the parenting she received as a model when called upon to stand-in as a parent for her own grandchildren. Nowadays however, because urbanization has been going on for decades, chances are that today's grandmothers were themselves raised by some family member other than her actual parents. As a result, chances are that those placed in a parenting role have childcare skills which have been degraded over time. Even if you take an 'it-takes-a-village' approach to raising children, chances are that many - if not most - other households in the village also have made stand-in parenting arrangements to one degree or another, so the entire child-rearing infrastructure in most villages just isn't what it used to be either.

 

Based on what I see, stand-in parents - whether grand-parents, siblings, neighbors - just don't really seem to be up to the job most of the time: a hands-off approach to providing academic or parental guidance, crappy diet with tons of junk-food snacks, with kids ending up spending most of their time hanging out with other kids in the neighborhood in similar circumstances.

 

You described monthly visits home to see the kids by the parents. I've been sitting here racking my brains if I can think of anyone in our village that fits that pattern. Most Thais in my village (and I suspect most Thais who work away from home) have six-day-a-week jobs, and work a significant distance away from the village, so returning to the village with any frequency is pretty much out of the question. My next door neighbor, who I would describe as a very family oriented guy with two young daughters and a loving wife, works as a driver for Isuzu, and only comes home for brief visits every once in a blue moon. Another guy has a landscaping job at some hospital facility maybe 100 km away, same story. Most of these guys go off to work without coming home for so long I start wondering or end up asking if they've died or gotten a divorce. I can't think of anybody coming back on a monthly basis.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I question whether your experience (a household headed up by an older(?) foreign guy who has the resources to care for an extended step-family) really should be used as a template to evaluate how well traditional inter-generational households are withstanding economic pressures like farm mechanization and urbanization.

 

While I can agree with a lot of what you say the children I see in my village seem to be happy and well balanced. Biological parents aren't the 'be all and end all' it's really about bonding, where the children are raised chiefly by the grandparents that is who they bond with. Our one year old has bonded with my missus and myself chiefly (her father is 'missing') although she is happy to see her mother when she comes home in the evening she is more emotionally attached to us, when something goes wrong in her little world it is to me or the wife she comes to for comfort.

 

I can't say that I have seen neglect in my village. The village schools play a big part in the children's well being as well (where I am anyway). The class teachers pay visits to the homes, want to know where the child can do homework, what their behaviour is like outside of school, do they have chores to do etc. and they can build a picture of the child's nurture.

 

There isn't what I would call poverty where I am, sufficient would be a good word, no junk food here, Mcdonald's would go broke. It's more like my childhood in the 50's, somewhat carefree although I am sure this is different in large towns and cities. There is a certain rest of 'old world innocence' still surviving, people still get dressed up to go shopping in the market town 17 km away and the smaller children still consider such weekly occurrences as an adventure (not my 13 year old son though, he could miss some online time) 

 

Some years ago when the one year old's mother was only 5 yrs old I had an english friend visit me from Germany, he stayed a week and as he watched the 5 year old walk off happily with her grandmother and a few neighbours to go the temple he seemed to ponder, ''It's amazing, nobody is ever alone here''. I think that sums it up, it's still the way things used to be in Europe.

 

 

 

 

[Boedog]

Cant breed what you can't feed, And why would anyone with any commence even think about having a child in the current situation,  Covid has been with us for 14 months now and decimated economies businesses and peoples livelihoods and they are concerned about the birth rate, there Stupidity and lack of intelligence never ceases to amaze, welcome to Thailand