SURVEY: Cryptocurrencies -- wave of the future or disaster waiting to happen?

[fdsa]

Imagine that someone who is intellectually honest and really interested in tech, also who was born before 2008, is reading this thread and got interested in a global public database that is impossible to forge. Would you be so kind to point out what they should look for?

[fdsa]

Just now, GrandPapillon said:

don't think it's only your memory playing tricks ????

 

trick question for you: In your opinion, what is the real societal problem that BLC is trying to solve? I mean real societal problem, not imagined ones by the usual geeks looking for new toys to play ????

budget spendings, for example. As blockchain could not be tucked into the brown envelope, the globally accessible public database of government's spendings will lower the corruption and theft of budget money.

 

[GrandPapillon]

Just now, fdsa said:

Imagine that someone who is intellectually honest and really interested in tech, also who was born before 2008, is reading this thread and got interested in a global public database that is impossible to forge. Would you be so kind to point out what they should look for?

question 1:  what make you think that a global public database impossible to forge didn't exist before?

question 2: why would anyone need another global public database? please give specific examples of our desperate needs for a public global database that desperately needs BLC to function?

[GrandPapillon]

46 minutes ago, fdsa said:

budget spendings, for example. As blockchain could not be tucked into the brown envelope, the globally accessible public database of government's spendings will lower the corruption and theft of budget money.

 

need to reply in 2 posts,

 

government spendings have already strong integrity controls in their ledger and mechanism. But that doesn't stop corruption, right? but nothing can, even with BLC. A budget line can easily be voted by parliament with a specific purpose, but that purpose can be easily manipulated when payments are made to different parties. You could try to bind budget lines with payment destinations if you could agree on a vote (good luck with that), but that would be impossible to manage eventually because it would lack flexibility, payments can be suspended, canceled etc... for a lot of technical reasons (low cash flows, change in the terms of the budget lines, discretionary suspensions, fiduciary violations etc...).

 

Now you are going to tell me that they could some kind of "coins" to make the payments. But that would be even worse, because "coins" are black box and not transparent (opensource code is not the same as operational transparency). And how would parliament vote on "coins" in full transparency when the destination would be "encrypted" in an obscure algo with verification checks. The issue is not the verification checks, it's the destination, and that destination can be manipulated and voted before it reaches the BLC circuit. And when it's not manipulated, the "coins" would lack the flexibility needed in typical payment management in big government agencies.

 

Take away the flexibility, and we could see a soviet style payment society with a fixed rubble based on imaginary value ????

[GrandPapillon]

15 minutes ago, fdsa said:

 

I gave an example already. Again, not "another" as there are no alternatives to blockchain.

That example clearly demonstrated a depth of naivety and poor understanding how government agencies and a dynamic society works. This is a recurring problem we see with insecure Millennials, their mistrust of everything is demonstrating their inability to relate to the world or society, and think there is an app that will fill that gap. They are basically lazy, self-entitled, clueless and incompetent. What have we done wrong to have such a generation? ????

[ctxa]

1 hour ago, GrandPapillon said:

Millennials

 

Say whatever you want. I am Gen Z ????

 

You never replied to why we need computers, though. There are tons around the world, consuming a hell LOT of energy. Back in the 40s, 50s everything was done with a notebook and a pen, and it all worked out. Isn't it a pointless tech too? 

[ctxa]

1 hour ago, GrandPapillon said:

GenZ = Millennials x10 ????

 

Well, since I am quite sure that you are British. I believe the UK has a state pension, which sooner or later you will receive. And so you better pray that millennials and Gen Z work hard to pay for your pension, else you might end up begging in the streets. I'd like to believe that you are aware that pensions come from tax payers money, and by then the ones paying taxes will be mostly millennials and Gen Zs. 

 

1 hour ago, GrandPapillon said:

 

computers in the 40s and 50s were very different, and don't think we could use them today with your logic ????

 

now a better question is: do we need to cloud everything? it brings a lot of issues but it does serve a purpose, yet sometimes this purpose is questionable. Do we really need to cloud our personal pics and precious data? how did we survive for so long without the cloud ????

 

same with computers, we could survive without computers, except the GenX and GenY ????

 

I would argue that we probably did more useful things with computers in the 60s and 70s (nuclear simulation, war games, meteo calculations etc...) than we do now (Facebook, Insta, TikTok, Likes generation)

 

Computers in the 40s and 50s damn right were very different to today's, you could pretty much say only the big governments used them, and with military purposes mostly. 

 

What I mean is, back then, office work, governments, everything was done with paper and pen, no computers. Nowadays everyone has a computer to do simple things such as company's accounts, which back then were done on paper and it was just as good and valid. Following your logic, computers are also useless and pointless and something which belongs to nerds because they use a lot of energy, and there are other ways to do same things as computers which doesn't involve computers. Isn't it?

 

And if we go back in the time following your logic, why do we have cars? why were internal combustion engines invented? they use a ton of energy and pollute a lot too, before we rode horses and we also could get everywhere we wanted. No point in internal combustion engines. Pointless technology too belonging to the nerds back in the 1800s????

 

Catch my point? If we follow your extremely flawed logic, humans would still be living in the age of stone.

 

  

1 hour ago, GrandPapillon said:

how did we survive for so long without the cloud

 

Humans could survive without 99.999% of the things we have nowadays. But they makes our lives, (at least mine) much easier. 

 

If you hate technology so much, I encourage you to grab your computer and your phone, put it in the trash can, and go on to enjoy living your happy life without technology. I am sure TVF will be glad that you won't be trolling around enymore.

 

 

[GrandPapillon]

2 minutes ago, ctxa said:

 

 

Well, since I am quite sure that you are British. I believe the UK has a state pension, which sooner or later you will receive. And so you better pray that millennials and Gen Z work hard to pay for your pension, else you might end up begging in the streets. I'd like to believe that you are aware that pensions come from tax payers money, and by then the ones paying taxes will be mostly millennials and Gen Zs. 

....

 

Catch my point? If we follow your extremely flawed logic, humans would still be living in the age of stone.

 

First, you bring an excellent point about retirement with the GenX and GenY. This is the case all over Europe, not only the UK. With lower salaries than their previous generations, GenX and GenY will not be able to pay for the retirement of older generations, hence why many European governments are planning to reduce those retirement obligations in the future. We will live interesting times when this happens.

 

cars, computers have a clear and valid utility. Computers could make calculations very fast, calculations that no human could perform that fast. Likewise, cars would give us mobility, we could move fast. This is groundbreaking tech here.

 

I think your analogy is misguided, blinded by your love to BLC and probably BTC. BLC doesn't bring any value or utility. The case you demonstrated was clearly very naive and not anchored in reality. The public does not care about databases, it doesn't make the world go faster and better. That was my point, that you keep missing.

 

Unless BLC address a real life issue, that is worth solving, with no other way than BLC, and maybe one day that will be the case, there is no way that technology could spread outside the Corporate PR press rooms and the geeks tech forums ????

[Sig]

"How can any sane person invest in something that has nothing to back it up?"
You mean kinda like the US Dollar?? And other fiat currencies....

[GrandPapillon]

1 minute ago, Sig said:

"How can any sane person invest in something that has nothing to back it up?"
You mean kinda like the US Dollar?? And other fiat currencies....

government trust and authority is the backup, hence why it's called "fiat" currencies ????

 

would you trust anarchy and "no central" authority for your currencies? ???? 

[ctxa]

1 hour ago, GrandPapillon said:

BLC and probably BTC

 

I am far from loving BTC. I keep a small fraction of my capital in BTC, just like I keep other fractions of my capital in certain mutual bonds, fixed deposit accounts, etc etc. No matter how hard you search, you will never find me recommending to anyone to invest in BTC or any other crypto for that matter. In fact, I always recommend quite the contrary. Only if you are really keen in investing in it,  AND only invest some extra money which you don't mind losing. 

1 hour ago, GrandPapillon said:

Unless BLC address a real life issue, that is worth solving, with no other way than BLC, and maybe one day that will be the case

 

Voting. Wouldn't online voting be much more efficient and SAFE if a Blockchain for voting was introduced. Sure, you could set up a SQL server and store people's votes there. But with the insecure crappy code that programmers working for governments nowadays tend to write, what is gonna happen when some random Russian hacker pwns the entire server using a simple SQL-Injection and changes votes as he like. It would be funny. Wouldn't it?

 

Even if said server was properly configured, the backend software properly coded without any bugs/vulnerabilities whatsoever, whoever was in control of that server can change data as he pleases without leaving any trace. 

However, with a blockchain based online voting system, who is gonna be able to change nothing?

 

The 3 main flaws of any centralized network are: 

 

 1. It's always vulnerable to hacking.

 2. It's only as much (or as few) transparent as the central body wants it to be.

 3. All the data is controlled by said central body. Which in turn can do whatever he pleases to it. 

 

All those 3 issues, come solved with Blockchain by default. 

 

I understand, that for many people understanding the real world problem that Blockchain comes to solve is hard, mainly because said people have never suffered that problem. But this doesn't mean that the problem is not there, and that the entire human population will greatly benefit from a technology based on the idea of Blockchain. 

 

(Keeping in mind that many of the blockchains which exist nowadays will be either ditched, or die on their own. And will be substituted by more efficient blockchains)

 

[CharlieH]

Multiple Troll/abusive and bickering posts have been removed.

[ctxa]

1 hour ago, GrandPapillon said:

government trust and authority is the backup, hence why it's called "fiat" currencies ????

 

would you trust anarchy and "no central" authority for your currencies? ???? 

 

There is something called gold, which is neither backed up by corrupt governments, nor by no central authority. And it's worked perfectly for hundred of years. 

[Sig]

36 minutes ago, GrandPapillon said:

government trust and authority is the backup, hence why it's called "fiat" currencies ????

 

would you trust anarchy and "no central" authority for your currencies? ???? 

I definitely don't consider an arbitrary decree (fiat) of any civil government to be backup to be relied upon by any stretch. Yes, I absolutely trust my currency to be better without a central authority's control over it! 1,000%! Or should I say 5,000%, which is the profit that I just made from my most recent crypto coin sell, a couple of weeks ago. Every fiat currency in history fails. Gold hasn't failed, silver hasn't failed. Pretty much any physical resource can act as a currency on some limited basis. The government tries regulating everything since they see themselves as the owner of pretty much everything, but they can only control what people allow them to control. Trusting their decree is nuts IMO. It can be useful, but I certainly wouldn't depend on it, let alone trust it for a nanosecond.

[AndresSP]

That space is full of scammers atm, stay away for now unless you really know what you are doing. Do your research now and buy the blood later when the bubble pops.

 

9000 sh*tcoins with the best and only use case to buy low sell high, if you are lucky. Maybe 1% will provide real value sometime in the future. Then there is Bitcoin but it’s definitely in a bubble now.
 

[lavezzi]

On 3/21/2021 at 1:59 PM, GrandPapillon said:

for our crypto friends who have a hard time understanding what "intrinsic value" is for an asset, this is what it is.

 

intrinsic values means having certain unique valuable properties for physical assets or producing a string of future cash flows for financial assets. Discounting those future cash flows at the cost of money, gives you the fundamental value of that asset.

 

The only "fundamental value" aka "intrinsic value" of BTC is how much money can be laundered with that system, and at what GPU and power costs LOL ????

 

therefore it's based on negative cash flows and some usage "flows", usage flows that can disappear overnight (power cut, Anti-ML regulations) so it has nothing to do with a solid foundation, and therefore it has no intrinsic value.

 

Hope that helps shed some light for our confused Crypto millennials ????

 

So why public company are buying btc?

Just speculating/betting?

Do you think that they bought billions dollars of btc just to ignite a retail fomo parabolic rise then dump all they have bought?

 

 

[Sharp]

7 hours ago, AndresSP said:

That space is full of scammers atm, stay away for now unless you really know what you are doing. Do your research now and buy the blood later when the bubble pops.

 

9000 sh*tcoins with the best and only use case to buy low sell high, if you are lucky. Maybe 1% will provide real value sometime in the future. Then there is Bitcoin but it’s definitely in a bubble now.
 

https://images.app.goo.gl/i7GBq482axhP7QcH6

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

21 hours ago, ctxa said:

 

There is something called gold, which is neither backed up by corrupt governments, nor by no central authority. And it's worked perfectly for hundred of years. 

Except you can't store a lot of it securely, you can't send it easily and you can't transact with it over long distances. 

 

You can do all of that with BTC and without the need for a third party. 

 

BTC will overtake gold as the medium to store all asset value and will surpass the market cap of gold ($11 trillion) within the next 5 years.

[Mr Meeseeks]

21 hours ago, GrandPapillon said:

government trust and authority is the backup, hence why it's called "fiat" currencies ????

 

would you trust anarchy and "no central" authority for your currencies? ???? 

You trust governments? I don't. 

 

Let's not forget that the US government banned personal gold ownership and trade in 1934 with the Gold Reserve Act, making it mandatory to hand all your gold over to the State!

 

Why? Because they had messed the economy, and similar to 2008/9 they were going to make YOU responsible for it, while avoiding taking responsibility and repercussions themselves and saving their banker chums. 

 

I feel sorry for those that don't understand or get what is happening. I am my own bank, and 90% of my net worth is now securely stored by myself and not banks.

 

Funnily enough, I feel a lot more secure with my money in Bitcoin than in a Thai bank. 

[ctxa]

19 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

Except you can't store a lot of it securely, you can't send it easily and you can't transact with it over long distances.

Agreed. Totally true. Gold is good but hard to store and/or make liquid in prompt time when you need it.

 

13 minutes ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

Funnily enough, I feel a lot more secure with my money in Bitcoin than in a Thai bank. 

Here, I’d like to personally recommend that you exercise some caution.

 

In the last 2 years I have made a lot of money with Bitcoin, to the point that the amount of the USD equivalent of the BTC that I currently  hold is of 6 figures. BUT it is still less than 10% of my total capital 

 

And I wanna emphasize that. Because even if I were to lose all that money, I would survive just fine. Not a big deal. 
 

But many people put all their savings into Bitcoin, I think that’s very risky and dangerous. Leaving aside bitcoins risks (which are not few) it is never wise to invest all your capital or a large part of it into a single asset. 
 

Please invest safely and carefully. I personally know many people who went from 5 figures to 7 figures just by investing (trading) Bitcoin. But I also know some who lost a large part of what they had.

 

Any stock work in such way that your gains are somebody else’s losses. So unfortunately not everyone will gain. Be careful.

 

Be safe.

[2530Ubon]

It's a gamble. Crypto rises up and falls down more often than a young tourist's penis in soi cowboy (pre-covid...)

 

Great way to make some cash now, if you have balls of steel, and a big enough bank balance to not care. If you don't already have wealth, then you probably don't have anything invested. Seems to me like another 'rich people getting richer scam.'  There is NOTHING of value in these transactions, mining or operating. Pretty much the same as the stock market. Rich people invest money to get returns. The average person doesn't have time, knowledge or skills to use this as a currency.

 

AI will make it obsolete in the future anyway as supercomputers and AI will be able to solve these blockchain puzzles at a rate that these pools of people and mining rigs can't do. If you were in early and have made gains, that's great. If your new to it, why bother now?

[lavezzi]

1 hour ago, 2530Ubon said:

AI will make it obsolete in the future anyway as supercomputers and AI will be able to solve these blockchain puzzles at a rate that these pools of people and mining rigs can't do. If you were in early and have made gains, that's great. If your new to it, why bother now?

the day we have quantum compuer we will have quantum algorithm (or proof of stake)

[2530Ubon]

16 hours ago, lavezzi said:

 

So why public company are buying btc?

Just speculating/betting?

Do you think that they bought billions dollars of btc just to ignite a retail fomo parabolic rise then dump all they have bought?

 

 

Yes.

 

Like the gamestop charade in the stock markets? Stock price went from a little over 5 dollars in Jan to almost 400 dollars a share in the space of 20 days.

It's all the same thing. Stock markets and Bitcoin are, in my opinion, closely related and manipulated the same way the stock market is.

 

Bitcoin only has value because people think it's valuable. When too many people think there's a burst coming, the price drops like a lead balloon, and conversely, when guys like Elon Musk purchase a sh!t-ton of them, people jump on the bandwagon and low and behold - the price rises. Starting to sound like the Gamestop story, yes? Bitcoin can also be manipulated this way- you can short sell Bitcoin as well as buy. If Elon Musk sold his 1.5 billion dollar bitcoin holding, the price would tumble. Elon has already made a billion USD back in profit already thanks to the announcement that his company would accept bitcoin and his large purchase. So anything he does now is just extra cash in the bank.

 

Whilst fiat currencies can also be shorted, there are central banks, governments, regulations, and a plethora of other means to prevent the currency from going broke. With Bitcoin, a consumer has none of these protections, ergo the currecy is less secure, less stable, and ultimatley a rich mans play thing.

 

 

[Sharp]

35 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

Yes.

 

Like the gamestop charade in the stock markets? Stock price went from a little over 5 dollars in Jan to almost 400 dollars a share in the space of 20 days.

It's all the same thing. Stock markets and Bitcoin are, in my opinion, closely related and manipulated the same way the stock market is.

 

Bitcoin only has value because people think it's valuable. When too many people think there's a burst coming, the price drops like a lead balloon, and conversely, when guys like Elon Musk purchase a sh!t-ton of them, people jump on the bandwagon and low and behold - the price rises. Starting to sound like the Gamestop story, yes? Bitcoin can also be manipulated this way- you can short sell Bitcoin as well as buy. If Elon Musk sold his 1.5 billion dollar bitcoin holding, the price would tumble. Elon has already made a billion USD back in profit already thanks to the announcement that his company would accept bitcoin and his large purchase. So anything he does now is just extra cash in the bank.

 

Whilst fiat currencies can also be shorted, there are central banks, governments, regulations, and a plethora of other means to prevent the currency from going broke. With Bitcoin, a consumer has none of these protections, ergo the currecy is less secure, less stable, and ultimatley a rich mans play thing.

 

 

Yes

 

Agreed its our opinion! 

[lavezzi]

4 hours ago, 2530Ubon said:

 

 

Whilst fiat currencies can also be shorted, there are central banks, governments, regulations, and a plethora of other means to prevent the currency from going broke. With Bitcoin, a consumer has none of these protections, ergo the currecy is less secure, less stable, and ultimatley a rich mans play thing.

 

 

 

so currency dont go broke?

I think that the money lost from people trusting their governements is far more than the money lost from people trading btc.

Look the graph of btc in the last 10 years: average 200% return.

Just if you bought last week you are loosing money.

I dont think there is anything like btc but you are right, bitcoin is the best store of value in the world and if you dont have value to save its quite useless. Its a rich men play thing.

 

 

 

[Mr Meeseeks]

16 hours ago, lavezzi said:

the day we have quantum compuer we will have quantum algorithm (or proof of stake)

Correct and there are already quantum resistant cryptos being worked on.

 

One just launched and has made me six figures in a week, check it out, it is called Cellframe, and the ticker is CELL. 

[2530Ubon]

2 hours ago, Mr Meeseeks said:

Correct and there are already quantum resistant cryptos being worked on.

 

One just launched and has made me six figures in a week, check it out, it is called Cellframe, and the ticker is CELL. 

How is it everyone on this forum makes a fortune with crypto? Is there some sort of juice i'm supposed to drink, or lick the computer screen on the TVF homepage or something?

[Surelynot]

2 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

How is it everyone on this forum makes a fortune with crypto? Is there some sort of juice i'm supposed to drink, or lick the computer screen on the TVF homepage or something?

Making a fortune "on paper"........it counts for diddly-squat until you actually cash-in......and by the time you do that it might be a huge loss........having said that I bought years ago (not a lot) but I am well up....on paper!

[Salerno]

11 minutes ago, 2530Ubon said:

How is it everyone on this forum makes a fortune with crypto?

 

The number 1 most crucial factor is ... buying them in the first place. Have you?

 

If not, consider the question answered ????

 

[2530Ubon]

22 minutes ago, Salerno said:

 

The number 1 most crucial factor is ... buying them in the first place. Have you?

 

If not, consider the question answered ????

 

That's a very good response!

 

Unfortunately, whilst I earn enough for a very comfortable life here, I don't have money free to invest. Too many damn bills...  new house, car, children at university. I wouldn't feel comfortable 'gambling' it when I also read about people who lose everything, and I have family to take care of here.

 

Just wondered why TVF members seem to always be pulling in  5/6/7 figures. You never hear of one member who has lost anything. Perhaps there's some secret initiation ritual? Or do these members already have wealth....