With Republican firewall, U.S. Senate acquits Trump of inciting deadly Capitol riot

[Morch]

8 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

People in a banana republic typically aren’t given a democratic choice. The American people have. They are below a banana republic. Zombie Nation. 

 

The American People voted Trump out. But don't let that stop the hyperbole.

[earlinclaifornia]

8 minutes ago, nauseus said:

 

I suppose if you don't score your goal the next step is to move the posts. Third time lucky?

I'm OK with him about to be so toasted in the American Judicial System LOVE how truth prevails

[earlinclaifornia]

19 minutes ago, impulse said:

So, in about 3 years, the American voters get to decide...

 

Isn't that the way it should be?

 

Wrong again, that is actually four years! Da I pray he is the Republican part'y choice. There is a GOD if he is.

[watthong]

42 minutes ago, sirineou said:

The impeachment process to hold an american president accountable needs to be eliminated, and some other process designed .

If this occurrence is not enough to convict a president, then I don;t know what would be. which further seems to undermine the checks and balance between to xo-equal branches of government.   I know it sounds dramatic, but IMO this senate trial , marks the beginning of  the end of American democracy. I know that it has started earlier than that but now is the time it becomes obvious. 

Don't think that all the other trump wannabees have not taken notice, of the inability of the system to hold them accountable.  

 

 

I agree. One rogue branch (president) is protected by half of the other branch (Congress) also gone rogue, a scenario the Founders had not contemplated before. One earlier red flag to me was the requirement of two thirds instead of simple majority. Why? Something fishy here (and no doubt something fishy is like catnip to the Reps.) Immediately when McConnell delayed to accept the impeachment letter delivered by the Dems - wait I think I got it wrong here, delayed holding the trial - I knew he got something up his sleeve. Right at the opening shot, the Dems remained acquiescent. The game then was off to a rocky start, like a cart running on three, actually two, wheels.

 

But the Dems kept on playing by the rules, so....this trial seems like a lose-lose situation to me - another show case of utter contempt that the rogue elements have no desire to hide for the American people. The saving grace was that the Impeachment managers did a splendid "Trumpism for Dummies" job of exposing Trump (and &Co - I wish they had lingered more on this group -) crime. At least the rest of the world doesn't think we all drank the kool-aid.

Edited February 14, 2021 by watthong

[newnative]

     Nice that 7 Republicans showed some backbone and voted to convict, although several will not be standing for re-election so not a lot of backbone needed.   A special place in Hypocrite Hell has been reserved for Mitchy McConnell.   He finds Trump guilty--no question about it, he says--but he can't vote vote to convict him because someone delayed the impeachment process until Trump was out of office.  Oh, wait, that person was Mitchy.  

[earlinclaifornia]

1 hour ago, Kelsall said:

If this, if that.  Let's face it, your team failed to convict Trump.  Get over it and move on to impeaching George Washington for owning slaves, or something.

Failure is your interpretation as you live for your trump master. We all have choices in our life. I am glad Mitch told the truth. I am 100% sure trump will NEVER be a President ever. How confident are you? LOL

Edited February 14, 2021 by earlinclaifornia

[newnative]

11 hours ago, ExpatOK said:

This case should have never been prosecuted. We all knew Trump would be acquitted and it further divided the country contrary to what biden SAYS he wants.  Shame AGAIN on Nancy for bringing this meritless case.

   Wrong.  You don't get a free pass.   He needed to be charged and brought to trial.  Yes, he was acquitted but the majority found him guilty, including 7 from his own party.  Even McConnell found him guilty but voted to acquit--basically on a technicality.   That second impeachment is on his record and will be there in the history books for all time.  No free pass.  

[welovesundaysatspace]

20 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

The American People voted Trump out. But don't let that stop the hyperbole.

Ok, you’re right of course, we shouldn’t forget that. Let’s call it half zombie nation then. 

[impulse]

53 minutes ago, sirineou said:

The impeachment process to hold an american president accountable needs to be eliminated, and some other process designed .

If this occurrence is not enough to convict a president, then I don;t know what would be. which further seems to undermine the checks and balance between to xo-equal branches of government.   I know it sounds dramatic, but IMO this senate trial , marks the beginning of  the end of American democracy. I know that it has started earlier than that but now is the time it becomes obvious. 

Don't think that all the other trump wannabees have not taken notice, of the inability of the system to hold them accountable.  

 

There is a process.  He's under investigation in Georgia for criminal charges related to that infamous phone call.  He's under investigation in New York for financial crimes.  He can be indicted in DC for insurrection, incitement or treason- whatever they can prove.

 

Now that he's no longer the sitting president, he's not protected from sitting in the dock.  That's the objective of the impeachment process.  Get the guy out, put someone in place to actually run the country once he's gone, and then go after him in the legal system. 

 

Well, he's gone...

 

[sirineou]

6 minutes ago, watthong said:

 

I agree. One rogue branch (president) is protected by half of the other branch (Congress) also gone rogue, a scenario the Founders had not contemplated before. One earlier red flag to me was the requirement of two thirds instead of simple majority. Why? Something fishy here (and no doubt something fishy is like catnip to the Reps.) Immediately when McConnell delayed to accept the impeachment letter delivered by the Dems - wait I think I got it wrong here, delayed holding the trial - I knew he got something up his sleeve. Right at the opening shot, the Dems remained acquiescent. The game then was off to a rocky start, like a cart running on three, actually two, wheels.

 

But the Dems kept on playing by the rules, so....this trial seems like a lose-lose situation to me - another show case of utter contempt that the rogue elements have no desire to hide for the American people. The saving grace was that the Impeachment managers did a splendid "Trumpism for Dummies" job of exposing Trump (and &Co - I wish they had lingered more on this group -) crime. At least the rest of the world doesn't think we all drank the kool-aid.

Mcconnell first said.  " We should have it after trump is out of office , one weeks is not enough time now"  then after the inauguration he said   " We can't convict a president after he is out of office   and , the country needs to move on the trial  should be a week long "

This is after "the president cant appoint a supreme court judge during an election year" for Obama and  "quick let's appoint a supreme court judge in the last month of an election " for trump.

If this is not an indication of the corruption of the republican party, I don't know what is. It's moral and governing integrity is shrinking right before our eyes.  

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Ok, you’re right of course, we shouldn’t forget that. Let’s call it half zombie nation then. 

 

Or better yet, let's drop the nonsense monikers.

[impulse]

6 minutes ago, Morch said:

Or better yet, let's drop the nonsense monikers.

 

What if that's all they got?

 

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, impulse said:

 

There is a process.  He's under investigation in Georgia for criminal charges related to that infamous phone call.  He's under investigation in New York for financial crimes.  He can be indicted in DC for insurrection, incitement or treason- whatever they can prove.

 

Now that he's no longer the sitting president, he's not protected from sitting in the dock.  That's the objective of the impeachment process.  Get the guy out, put someone in place to actually run the country once he's gone, and then go after him in the legal system. 

 

Well, he's gone...

 

This is not about trump. I agree he is gone, this is about all the other trump wannabees and the responsibility of Congress to keep them accountable.

Are they abdicated their responsibility to the lower courts?  and are we OK with that?  Then, what do we need an impeachment process for ?

 

[impulse]

1 minute ago, sirineou said:

This is not about trump. I agree he is gone, this is about all the other trump wannabees and the responsibility of Congress to keep them accountable.

Are they abdicated their responsibility to the lower courts?  and are we OK with that?  Then, what do we need an impeachment process for ?

 

Congress passes laws.  They don't enforce laws.  They're not a court at all.

 

Impeachment isn't to punish a president for wrongdoing.  It's to remove him so he's no longer a threat, and no longer protected from sitting in the dock for his crimes.    Once he's removed, he can then be prosecuted for his crimes, while the country continues to function under his replacement.  (Imagine the threat to the country if a sitting president could be required to spend all his time fighting legal cases).

 

He's gone.  Not protected from prosecution.  And they're free to pursue whatever cases they wish against him.  But not in Congress.  In a court of law, with rules of evidence, and juries, and impartial judges.  Not a political theater, and not a jury of his alleged victims and past and future political opponents, presided by a political opponent who has already stated his desired outcome before any evidence was even presented.

 

But here's the deal...  Falsify evidence in a court trial, and you'll go to jail.  Bad news for the Impeachment Managers.

 

[Walker88]

9 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

 (Imagine the threat to the country if a sitting president could be required to spend all his time fighting legal cases).

 

 

 

Yes, he'd have no time for golf, Tweeting, or calling into fox & friends every morning for a couple of hours.

[impulse]

5 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

Yes, he'd have no time for golf, Tweeting, or calling into fox & friends every morning for a couple of hours.

 

Yeah, but just imagine the mass exodus if they impeached politicians for goofing off.

 

[sirineou]

7 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Congress passes laws.  They don't enforce laws.  They're not a court at all.

 

Impeachment isn't to punish a president for wrongdoing.  It's to remove him so he's no longer a threat, and no longer protected from sitting in the dock for his crimes.    Once he's removed, he can then be prosecuted for his crimes, while the country continues to function under his replacement.  (Imagine the threat to the country if a sitting president could be required to spend all his time fighting legal cases).

 

He's gone.  Not protected from prosecution.  And they're free to pursue whatever cases they wish against him.  But not in Congress.  In a court of law, with rules of evidence, and juries, and impartial judges.  Not a political theater, and not a jury of his alleged victims and past and future political opponents, presided by a political opponent who has already stated his desired outcome before any evidence was even presented.

 

But here's the deal...  Falsify evidence in a court trial, and you'll go to jail.  Bad news for the Impeachment Managers.

 

I agree with all of the above but if  a president can not be impeached and convicted in the last few weeks of his hers administration, and can not be convicted by congress  during or afterwards , what kind of signal that sends to all presidents republicans or Democrat? That do what you want and then you  can take your chances in the legal system? 

What good would the legal system be if trump  was successful  ?  and even if not successful, as trump was not,   do you really think trump will ever be convicted of anything in the legal system? 

He might be found guilty , but he will be dead and buried before he is ever convicted of anything , he has a $ 120 million defence fund that it is sure to grow, and he will  appeal this all the way to the supreme court. Perhaps if he lives to be 110 he might be convicted of something but i would not even bet on that. 

 

[onebir]

26 minutes ago, impulse said:

Yeah, but just imagine the mass exodus if they impeached politicians for goofing off.

It was reported that some GOP senators weren't paying attention during the impeachment hearing, specifically to avoid being swayed by the evidence being presented.

In an ordinary court this applies:

Quote

if any member of a jury engages in behavior that prevents a defendant from receiving a fair and impartial trial, that misconduct must be corrected; otherwise, the trial is unconstitutional.

So there it seems the impeachment hearing was rendered unconstitutional by the behaviour of the people who claimed it was unconstitutional. The remedy, however, is a redo.

[onebir]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Yes, but impeachment is such a big historic vote for senators that all of the republican senators would have been asked by the press to comment on their vote. If they said, no comment, everyone would know anyway.

They're pretty good liars.

[phantomfiddler]

Wonderful to hear that some degree of sanity has been retained ????  Even more wonderful to see that america now has a president they deserve, Hahahaha ????

[Scott]

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[Jingthing]

19 minutes ago, onebir said:

They're pretty good liars.

The press is pretty good at counting numbers. 

[onebir]

32 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The press is pretty good at counting numbers. 

Having an inconsistent counting is not the same as knowing whose a big white RINO ????

[pedro01]

I think it's time for an overhaul of the impeachment process. 

 

The outcome of this process was known in advance. Both sides basically voted along party lines as expected. 

 

The Senate can't act as a jury, a jury is supposed to be impartial. I think impeachment should go to an actual jury, selected and assessed just like the jury at a criminal trial. 

 

Mind you, I can't see many politicians accepting that, it might make things a bit too real for them. 

 

So theatre it is. 

[watthong]

18 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

18 hours ago, Morch said:

 

The American People voted Trump out. But don't let that stop the hyperbole.

Ok, you’re right of course, we shouldn’t forget that. Let’s call it half zombie nation then. 

 

When you call "something-nation", that something ought to be the majority. I suggest you go back and refresh your basic math...

Edited February 15, 2021 by onthedarkside
flame comment removed

[Scott]

A post violating fair use policy has been removed:

 

14) You will not post any copyrighted material except as fair use laws apply (as in the case of news articles). Please only post a link, the headline and the first three sentences.

 

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[meechai]

 

Sometimes you wonder if these "elected officials" should be docked pay when their cries of wolf as usual turn up hollow.

At the very least they should be repaying the court costs

Edited February 15, 2021 by onthedarkside
quote of hidden post removed

[Patong2021]

This result is the end of the road for the US empire.

USA is morally bankrupt and the Trump administration was the end of USA position as a world moral authority.

The USA no longer has the moral higher ground to condemn other governments on issues such as free elections, political corruption, human rights and  systemic injustice. This is the Trump legacy and the farce of the US presidential election, and aftermath including this impeachment proceeding sealed the legacy.

 

The USA is no longer respected or held in high regard by the advanced free world nations. The majority of USA nationals will not understand the negative impact because they do not have international transactions or travel outside of the USA. Where the USA was once able to dominate world markets because Americans were seen as more reliable and honest than some countries, that advantage is gone. The conduct of some US senators who were laughing  during the  proceedings and who supported the violence the Trump insurrection  has shown that the USA is no better than some of the violent developing world nations.  The USA people are going to have a very big shock when they are greeted with animosity and contempt once the Covid19 travel restrictions are lifted.

[nauseus]

7 minutes ago, Patong2021 said:

This result is the end of the road for the US empire.

USA is morally bankrupt and the Trump administration was the end of USA position as a world moral authority.

The USA no longer has the moral higher ground to condemn other governments on issues such as free elections, political corruption, human rights and  systemic injustice. This is the Trump legacy and the farce of the US presidential election, and aftermath including this impeachment proceeding sealed the legacy.

 

The USA is no longer respected or held in high regard by the advanced free world nations. The majority of USA nationals will not understand the negative impact because they do not have international transactions or travel outside of the USA. Where the USA was once able to dominate world markets because Americans were seen as more reliable and honest than some countries, that advantage is gone. The conduct of some US senators who were laughing  during the  proceedings and who supported the violence the Trump insurrection  has shown that the USA is no better than some of the violent developing world nations.  The USA people are going to have a very big shock when they are greeted with animosity and contempt once the Covid19 travel restrictions are lifted.

 

Ah well, if it's just the USA that is morally bankrupt maybe the rest of the world will be OK. ????

[heybruce]

9 hours ago, cmarshall said:

 

So, impeachment of schoolteachers is on then, right?  Because there is no basis for excluding them since the Constitution does not specifically forbid impeaching them?

Unless the school teachers are elected to federal office, no.

 

However to your overall point; yes, there is nothing in the Constitution to prevent Congress from wasting time on pointless tasks.  As I've posted before, it is not a detailed instruction manual with rules covering every possible event.