94 Year Old Father Moving to Thailand

[mtls2005]

Have you begun any Estate Planning?

 

Is an Assisted Living facility (in the U.S.) an option?

 

 

[Ebumbu]

8 hours ago, BritTim said:

AHQ package rather than ASQ. Regular ASQ is not really suitable for someone with dementia.

 

Hi. I'm wasn't familiar with these terms. Thanks for encouragement. It looks like supervised quarantine in a hospital. If I leave Thailand and come back, am I required to do 14 day quarantine, even if vaccinated? Could I do it at my own house? Could my father do this quarantine in my house? 

[sqwakvfr]

Care Resort Chiang Mai is a facility that specializes in live in care for Demential Patients.  Al Jazeera did a documentary on this place.  It featured some of the foreign residents there and their families.  It looked promising.

 

[Jingthing]

7 hours ago, ezzra said:

Best will be is to do a trail run, bring him over but don't burn any bridges behind and see he he goes for few months, if all well, than you can arrange for his permanent stay...

I think that guy is way too old for any trial runs especially considering all the hassles of the long flight and Covid extras. Either do it or don't.

[DrJack54]

6 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

If I leave Thailand and come back, am I required to do 14 day quarantine, even if vaccinated? Could I do it at my own house? Could my father do this quarantine in my house? 

Weird post from someone living in Thailand.

Upon your return you would need 14 day quarantine in an ASQ and not in your home.

Currently being vaccinated makes no difference. No your father could not quarantine in your home.

I have not read much of this thread however  bit surprised with number of positive replies to your plan. 

[Ebumbu]

8 hours ago, BritTim said:

If he will have live in support, there is no reason why he cannot visit a local bank branch rather than trying to learn online banking. He will almost certainly find the staff at the bank very patient and friendly with someone of his age. The attitude of Thais towards the elderly is one of the reasons why I think it is suitable for retirees as they decline physically and mentally.

 

Agree. I find Thai banks superior to US banks, and more technologically advanced. 

 

Do you know which US banks have a big presence here in Thailand? His primary bank is Citibank, and that only has 6 branches in Bangkok.

 

He demands access to his US banks as a condition of any move. Reasonable. So, options are online banking or finding US banks with a big presence here. My thinking is to buy him a laptop and encrypt it. Securely back up passwords on my own encrypted laptop. Get RSA devices maybe. Get a local US mobile number before he leaves. Lots of issues. Suggestions are welcome. 

 

[Ebumbu]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

What is your status here? If on a extension based upon retirement and some others your father could get an extension for being your father. No need for money in the bank or health insurance to get a single entry non-o visa and apply for the extension.

 

I have retirement extensions. However, father has substantial savings whereas I do not. He'd be in a better position floating his own visa, I believe. 

 

Also, it's possible I may switch to a business visa. I want to keep that option open. 

 

My father also asked what happens if I predecease him. Good question. Anything can happen. I need to ponder that one. Best answer I can come up with is to introduce him to a legal firm and the embassy. 

 

Thanks.

 

 

[mtls2005]

2 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

Suggestions are welcome. 

 

Plan, plan, plan.

 

Your posts are kind of, free-form, and lack a bit of basic common sense, to be brutally honest.

 

I think you're vastly under-estimating the herculean task of getting your father to Thailand, and then dealing with all of the subsequent issues, both here in Thailand, and zipping things up back home.

 

You should consult an elder-care professional, in the U.S. and, of course, an attorney, for, at a minimum, estate planning, PoA, etc.

 

Is an Assisted Living facility out of the question?

 

Throwing pops on a plane might have worked 20-ish years ago. Now? Maybe not the best of plans.

 

 

 

 

[Ebumbu]

8 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Weird post from someone living in Thailand.

 

I haven't left during Covid. I feel much safer here than in the USA, where the virus is out of control. I think that by the time I work out details of my father's move, quarantine will be over. I am very weird. You are correct. 

[mtls2005]

3 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

However, father has substantial savings

 

My Estate Planning klaxxon just went into overdrive.

 

3 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

My father also asked what happens if I predecease him.

 

Yeah, Dad seems to be a bit more savvy than you, in all honesty.

 

 

[Ebumbu]

2 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

 

Plan, plan, plan.

 

Your posts are kind of, free-form, and lack a bit of basic common sense, to be brutally honest.

 

 

 

I am playing the hand I have been dealt. I have not covered every minute detail in my posts. What I'm doing here is brainstorming, and I've already gotten a lot of useful and actionable info. Thank you. 

 

 

[Trujillo]

Did you ask what he wanted? 

If he's too out of it to really understand, would such a total upending of the few things around him that he gets grounding from upset him? 

[NCC1701A]

11 hours ago, Ebumbu said:

So, my father is 94 years old.

i was thinking about this for my 88 year old mother about eight years ago. you will need to make special arrangements at every point along the way. My mom did not have any mental issues and was not a problem that way but the airlines may not let you on the plane with a person who is not in control of their facilities. Some things to think about, at USA airports going through security, wheelchair access, 18 hour flight from LAX to BKK, changing flights along the way, more security, special food, stress of Bangkok immigration, lack of sleep and a car to take you to a destination in BKK that you have setup to rest before hand.

 

I would go to Villa Market and locate his favorite USA foods if possible. Jet lag, filthy air, heat and humidity will hit your dad like a brick. You will need a room with perfect air conditioning, humidity control, air purifiers, a adjustable hospital type bed, a window with a view, flat screen with Netflix or Truevision with USA sports bathroom for a elderly person and someone you can trust to take care of your dad. He will not be able to eat Thai food at all. And be sure to keep him away from the water. So be ready with whatever he needs. My parents it was scrambled eggs and bacon, white bread toast and coffee. they lived to be 92 and 89. 

 

and of course when he passes you should have a plan for that. 

 

in the end i did not bring my mom it would have been too stressful.   

 

 

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by NCC1701A

[Ebumbu]

Just now, Trujillo said:

Did you ask what he wanted? 

If he's too out of it to really understand, would such a total upending of the few things around him that he gets grounding from upset him? 

 

I talk with him every few days. I expect discussions to last many months. My purpose here is to gather options and ideas about the practical challenges of such a move. His USA situation is becoming untenable. The next step would be a nursing home in the USA, which would be a very poor quality of life compared to what's available here, along with family (me) to advocate and take care here. 

[Ebumbu]

21 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

Redundant post. Delete. 

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by Ebumbu

[mtls2005]

1 minute ago, Ebumbu said:

The next step would be a nursing home in the USA

 

Why?

 

An Assisted Living facility would be the next step.

 

After that, yes, a nursing home.

 

I think you're working with a very limited scope, and need some professional advice.

 

No elder-care professional would endorse such a move, based on what little detail you've provided, unless you could guarantee a level of care equal to or greater than that available in the U.S.

 

 

[Ebumbu]

4 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

i was thinking about this for my 88 year old mother about eight years ago. you will need to make special arrangements at every point along the way. My mom did not have any mental issues and was not a problem that way but the airlines may not let you on the plane with a person who is not in control of their facilities. At USA airports, wheelchair access, 18 hour flight from LAX to BKK, changing flights along the way, special food, lack of sleep and a car to take you to a destination in BKK that you have setup to rest.

 

He walks better than me. He can sleep anywhere, anytime. He currently doesn't need a bed and just sleeps in a chair and likes it. He eats anything. I suppose that's how he made it to 94. I expect the trip to be harder on me than him. His main health issue is mental. 

 

Would leave from East Coast. Not sure about flights yet. Yes, it would be brutal. But being able to sleep anywhere, anytime, instantly is a great gift. This thing would needs months of planning for sure. I'm just beginning to sketch out details, literally. 

 

[Ebumbu]

3 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

An Assisted Living facility would be the next step.

 

Yes, I conflated the two. Agree. 

 

3 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

No elder-care professional would endorse such a move, based on what little detail you've provided, unless you could guarantee a level of care equal to or greater than that available in the U.S.

 

The US is killing off its elder population wholesale with Covid. You have a much higher opinion of standard of care in the US than I do. Excellent care in Thailand is available at a fraction of the cost. If he needs to move to an assisted-living facility, the care here is incomparable to the US. He's not Bill Gates. Assisted Living in his state is going to be $50k a year (entry level) and up. What would that buy in Thailand?  

 

 

[JWRC]

You'd be on call for the initial period? Well that's big of you. I doubt he speaks Thai, how is he going to communicate with his "helper". Why not help him organize something better in the US. You mention a care home in Chiang Mai, again, language barrier and once the initial period is over, a world of loneliness.

 

[mtls2005]

7 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

He walks better than me. He can sleep anywhere, anytime. He currently doesn't need a bed and just sleeps in a chair and likes it. He eats anything. I suppose that's how he made it to 94. I expect the trip to be harder on me than him. His main health issue is mental. 

 

Hire care-givers to help him at home. Millions of us have been through this process, and yes, there is a process which works.

 

Has he been vaccinated for COVID yet?

 

Honestly, you're all over the map.

 

 

[Ebumbu]

6 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

 

Hire care-givers to help him at home. Millions of us have been through this process, and yes, there is a process which works.

 

Honestly, you're all over the map.

 

Care-givers is a great idea. Father objects to it, for now. He says he doesn't need it. He does. 

Can do without negativity. I'm investigating options and responding to comments all over the map. Have a Snickers. 

If you are aware of a process that works, I'd be grateful if you shared it. No decisions have been made yet. 

Edited March 4, 2021 by Ebumbu

[DrJack54]

4 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

Honestly, you're all over the map.

Think I agree with you.

In Oz we would say... You're all over the SHOP.

To be fair to the OP, he has been proactive in his thread. Refreshing compared to other threads. 

I posted earlier that I'm very surprised by many of his comments re questions regarding quarantine, banking options, etc.

Seem very naive. Almost like has not been to Thailand.

Also surprised by level of positive/supportive posts from folk. 

Only one person's opinion but I believe his plan is not sound.

[Ebumbu]

9 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

 

Also surprised by level of positive/supportive posts from folk. 

 

 

You are helping to adjust that ratio. Good work. 

I have no concrete plan. I'm seeking input from those more knowledgeable than me about how this could be done, or whether it's just impossible. I'm brainstorming and will gather as much data as possible before making any moves. Thank you. 

Edited March 4, 2021 by Ebumbu

[donnacha]

Ignore the haters.

Banking will be no problem. Online banking with his US bank online and in-person banking with his Thai bank.

Someone suggested Chiang Mai. Lovely city but, unfortunately, the atrocious air quality during the first half of the year will hasten his demise.

If he can cope with losing his familiar environment, the quality of his interactions will be far higher in Thailand. Experiences such as massages should improve his overall quality of life. The quality of care in the West is both astonishingly bad and astonishingly expensive. If he has the basic money necessary to enable a full-time carer and activities such as visiting elephant farms, he will have a higher quality of life.

I see that my own father responds well to his mostly foreign carers. I have no doubt that you will find kind, funny carers who will speak sufficient English to communicate well with your father.

One consideration is that, sometimes, people with dementia become more alarmed by foreigners. In my experience, however, female Asians interact well with elderly westerners - for example, many nurses in the West are Filipina and have a terrific attitude, far better than American, European, Middle-Eastern and, especially, African nurses.

One possible show-stopper is that elderly men can sometimes be very uncomfortable with change, even when it makes perfect sense on paper. Please don't tie yourself in knots trying to improve your father's life if he does not have the mental capacity to deal with it. It doesn't matter if the changes you are suggesting make perfect sense on many levels, you are ultimately dealing with the emotions of a man facing death, and that is rarely graceful.
   




 

Edited March 4, 2021 by donnacha

[Ebumbu]

1 minute ago, donnacha said:

Ignore the haters.

Banking will be no problem. Online banking with his US bank online and in-person banking with his Thai bank.

Someone suggested Chiang Mai. Lovely city but, unfortunately, the atrocious air quality during the first half of the year will hasten his demise.

If he can cope with losing his familiar environment, the quality of his interactions will be far higher in Thailand. Experiences such as massages should improve his overall quality of life. The quality of care in the West is both astonishingly bad and astonishingly expensive. If he has the basic money necessary to enable a full-time carer and activities such as visiting elephant farms, he will have a higher quality of life.

I see that my own father responds well to his mostly foreign carers. I have no doubt that you will find kind, funny carers who will speak sufficient English to communicate well with your father.

One consideration is that, sometimes, people with dementia become more alarmed by foreigners. In my experience, however, female Asians interact well with elderly westerners - for example, many nurses in the West are Filipina and have a terrific attitude, far better than American, European, or Middle-Eastern nurses.

One possible show-stopper is that elderly men can sometimes be very uncomfortable with change, even when it makes perfect sense on paper. Please don't tie yourself in knots trying to improve your father's life if he does not have the mental capacity to deal with it. It doesn't matter if the changes you are suggesting make perfect sense on many levels, you are ultimately dealing with the emotions of a man facing death, and that is rarely graceful.
   




 

 

Super helpful. I will reread and ponder. Yeah, I post for help, and I get some hate. Maybe I misspelled help. 555. 

 

 

[Jingthing]

Even though I was wrong and Ubonjoe informed us that he may be able to get an O visa in the U.S. I.would suggest still considering a 5 year Elite visa. That would free him of all the onerous details of meeting the financial requirements for annual extensions. At that age if you have the money why not buy some convenience?

 

You would still need to find out all the pandemic related requirements for entering the first time on the Elite. Quarantine, insurance, etc.

 

A small detail but suggest he open Schwab and Capital One accounts while still in the U.S. For example if he ends up living on ATM withdraws on the Elite he would have ATM fees rebated with Capitol One. 

Edited March 4, 2021 by Jingthing

[donnacha]

My observation of my own father's situation is that the lockdowns have made little difference to him. He watches endless TV, gorges in the kitchen, sleeps at the wrong times, never uses his exercise bike, occasionally enjoy phone calls or skype calls from his family. He is incapable of living independently because, every day, he needs basic help, although he is in denial about this. He receives 90 minutes of assistance per day via his local health authority but it is not enough, the carers keep changing, and there is significant variability in their abilities and attitude. Many things that need to be done are usually neglected.

There is no doubt in my mind that personal interactions are the positive part of his existence, while endless TV and bad food are a negative. I know that, further down the track, no care home will provide a reasonable level of care and personal interaction. Some sort of independent living with a full-time a carer would be an almost ideal solution BUT, realistically, a parent with dementia is likely to find problems even with that and demand to go "home".



 

Edited March 4, 2021 by donnacha

[Ebumbu]

8 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

A small detail but suggest he open Schwab and Capital One accounts while still in the U.S. For example if he ends up living on ATM withdraws on the Elite he would have ATM fees rebated with Capitol One. 

 

I know he has Capital One as one of his banks. Not sure about Schwab. Could you add a little bit of detail to this comment, please. Very helpful. 

 

Yes, Elite is the way to go, but the price tag is going to be a very hard sell. We will see. 

 

 

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

 

I know he has Capital One as one of his banks. Not sure about Schwab. Could you add a little bit of detail to this comment, please. Very helpful. 

 

Yes, Elite is the way to go, but the price tag is going to be a very hard sell. We will see. 

 

 

Its good that he already has Capitol One. I don’t have either but both are very frequently mentioned as good deals for expats. It's always good sometimes vital to have backups. Things can go south with US financial institutions when you're living abroad. 

[lopburi3]

55 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

You have a much higher opinion of standard of care in the US than I do. Excellent care in Thailand is available at a fraction of the cost. If he needs to move to an assisted-living facility, the care here is incomparable to the US.

Sorry but totally disagree - well possibility the word incomparable is valid - there is virtually no formal assisted care in Thailand (people have extended family) and the private care you envision would likely not make up for the communications issues (Thai do not speak/understand much English at this, and often even at doctor levels - PI might have it over Thailand in that regard).