SURVEY: Should Scotland seek independence from the UK?

[Sujo]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Serious question: Does the SNP have anything else in their manifesto other than partitioning the UK?

I am saying democracy should not be ignored.

Democracy should not be ignored. Coming from a poster that thinks its ok for one country to decide what another country can or cannot do.

[Sujo]

16 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Wait and see how they vote I guess. 

What will all the 1000's of Scots do who live and work in England. ?

My son in-law is from Edinburgh and he works in England and said he would not want Scotland to be independent, that's about all I understand of the situation. 

Its not so much whether they should stay or go.

Its that they should be allowed to make that decision. At the moment they cannot. Another country wont allow them.

Its hotel california.

Edited March 13, 2021 by Sujo

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Regardless of whether they have other policies or not if they win the election with a policy of holding another referendum are you saying that mandate, given to them by the population of Scotland, should be ignored?

We were suppose to judge Sturgeon on education she told everyone, the problem being you cannot believe a word that comes out of her mouth, so should her mandate be ignored, that would have to be an emphatic yes as you cannot believe a word she says, if she told me it was raining I would have to send the dog out and see if it came back in wet.

She is losing grip of the SNP, "for whom the bells tolls, it tolls for Nicolee"

[Kwasaki]

1 hour ago, Sujo said:

Its not so much whether they should stay or go.

Its that they should be allowed to make that decision. At the moment they cannot. Another country wont allow them.

Its hotel california.

Well my son-law is my only Scot source and said we have already had a vote but he is anti Sturgeon anyways. 

Because you say they can't have another vote I guess that's that then. 

 

[Surelynot]

2 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Well my son-law is my only Scot source and said we have already had a vote but he is anti Sturgeon anyways. 

Because you say they can't have another vote I guess that's that then. 

 

If Scotland, Wales and NI (and Ireland?) got there act together they could form......oooo.....let's see......a Celtic Union.........rejoin the EU.....boom.

[Kwasaki]

9 minutes ago, Surelynot said:

If Scotland, Wales and NI (and Ireland?) got there act together they could form......oooo.....let's see......a Celtic Union.........rejoin the EU.....boom.

Couldn't care less at my time of life and  " what if's " " they could "    " dreaming " is not a lot of good and nor is the SNP allegedly. 

[vogie]

Great news for Scotland. The cabinet are moving 500 civil servant jobs to Glasgow.

 

The Cabinet Office is to move at least 500 civil servant jobs to Glasgow by 2024 to work at a new secondary headquarters, the BBC understands.

An internal letter at Michael Gove's department said it would "strengthen its commitment to Scotland".

The jobs include senior roles and ministers would be expected to spend "some time" in Scotland.

It comes amid ongoing efforts by the UK government to bolster support for the union.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-56380128

[RuamRudy]

25 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Couldn't care less at my time of life and  " what if's " " they could "    " dreaming " is not a lot of good and nor is the SNP allegedly. 

In what way is the SNP 'not good enough'? How can you explain why, after 10 years in power, they are expected to get a majority at the next Holyrood election if they are not good enough? 

[sandyf]

23 hours ago, vogie said:

And maybe one day you might stop blaming all your trials and tribulations on Brexit, one of your founding members Arthur Donaldson later to become the leader of the SNP was seeking independence in 1939 and the lengths he was prepared to go to get it doesn't even bear thinking about. 

And exactly the same can be said of Alex Salmond in the late 70s, but he became the  brexiteer hero in the battle with NS. He should never have been allowed to hold public office.

Only a brexiteer would be self deluded into thinking brexit has nothing to do with the current unrest in the devolved nations.

Scotland has every right to take decisions regarding their own future, up to them what they decide and if once again they decide to remain it will be of their own volition and not a Westminster directive.

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, sandyf said:

And exactly the same can be said of Alex Salmond in the late 70s, but he became the  brexiteer hero in the battle with NS. He should never have been allowed to hold public office.

Only a brexiteer would be self deluded into thinking brexit has nothing to do with the current unrest in the devolved nations.

Scotland has every right to take decisions regarding their own future, up to them what they decide and if once again they decide to remain it will be of their own volition and not a Westminster directive.

Scotland took that decision, it is a pity that the SNP will not respect any result that goes against them.

And "oh what a tangled web we weave" the golden boy Salmond is now being disowned because he alleges Nicola Sturgeon and her motley crew have tried to imprison him and whatever the truth is here there is no doubting Swinneys involvement in withholding very crucial information that would have maybe helped Sturgeon through her amnesiac arrests.

[sandyf]

22 hours ago, Sjptain said:

The rules were set and Salmond/Sturgeon agreed that it was a once in a lifetime opportunity,

There was no time interval in the Scottish referendum bill and out of context comments are irrelevant with no legal standing.

If the SNP get the election result they are looking for and Bojo continues to reject a Section 30 agreement then the matter will be decided in the courts.

Despite what some seem to think, the courts only consider the facts rather than personal interpretation, as both  Bojo and TM have experienced.

[sandyf]

6 minutes ago, vogie said:

Scotland took that decision, it is a pity that the SNP will not respect any result that goes against them.

And "oh what a tangled web we weave" the golden boy Salmond is now being disowned because he alleges Nicola Sturgeon and her motley crew have tried to imprison him and whatever the truth is here there is no doubting Swinneys involvement in withholding very crucial information that would have maybe helped Sturgeon through her amnesiac arrests.

Selective memory, always makes for a good deflection.

[Rookiescot]

3 hours ago, vogie said:

We were suppose to judge Sturgeon on education she told everyone, the problem being you cannot believe a word that comes out of her mouth, so should her mandate be ignored, that would have to be an emphatic yes as you cannot believe a word she says, if she told me it was raining I would have to send the dog out and see if it came back in wet.

She is losing grip of the SNP, "for whom the bells tolls, it tolls for Nicolee"

So you are saying a mandate for holding a referendum should be ignored. But that would be the will of the people Vogie. It would be undemocratic to stop it. The people will have spoken.

Such a move would of course end up in the courts. Not a good look for the UK government. Having to argue that preventing democracy is OK. Westminster would likely lose because it would have to be heard under Scottish law and in Scotland the people are sovereign.

 

[Rookiescot]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

Great news for Scotland. The cabinet are moving 500 civil servant jobs to Glasgow.

 

The Cabinet Office is to move at least 500 civil servant jobs to Glasgow by 2024 to work at a new secondary headquarters, the BBC understands.

An internal letter at Michael Gove's department said it would "strengthen its commitment to Scotland".

The jobs include senior roles and ministers would be expected to spend "some time" in Scotland.

It comes amid ongoing efforts by the UK government to bolster support for the union.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-56380128

Unelected faceless bureaucrats. 

[7by7]

5 hours ago, vogie said:

5 hours ago, Neeranam said:

What are the odds of becoming independent in my lifetime(40ish years)? 

About as much chance as me using my rowing machine other than a coat hanger.

Then you have nothing to fear from another referendum!

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

In what way is the SNP 'not good enough'? How can you explain why, after 10 years in power, they are expected to get a majority at the next Holyrood election if they are not good enough? 

As I have said I only comment on what my son-law says who it's Scottish personally I couldn't give a rats A-hole. 

[vogie]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

Selective memory, always makes for a good deflection.

No selective memory here, you wanted to partition the UK before Brexit and are you telling me without the Brexit referendum you would not have bothered with another indy vote, and you would just carried on roaming in the gloaming? I think not.

[vogie]

1 hour ago, Rookiescot said:

Unelected faceless bureaucrats. 

 

38 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

Then you have nothing to fear from another referendum!

I had nothing to fear from a "peoples vote" either, another sneaky way to ignore the democratic decision our country voted on, "I am a democrat" ????????????

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

 

I had nothing to fear from a "peoples vote" either, another sneaky way to ignore the democratic decision our country voted on, "I am a democrat" ????????????

You were dead set against a peoples vote. Something to do with the will of the people and democracy.

You are OK with ignoring the will of the people in Scotland though.

Brexiteers and democracy. Its like kryptonite to you guys.

[vogie]

Just now, Rookiescot said:

You were dead set against a peoples vote. Something to do with the will of the people and democracy.

You are OK with ignoring the will of the people in Scotland though.

Brexiteers and democracy. Its like kryptonite to you guys.

The will of the people in Scotland is to remain in our union, the will of the SNP I don't give two hoots for.

[Rookiescot]

Just now, vogie said:

The will of the people in Scotland is to remain in our union, the will of the SNP I don't give two hoots for.

If the SNP win the election in May with a policy of holding a referendum then thats the will of the people Vogie.

No ifs, no buts and no maybe.

Troubling times ahead for unionist Brexiteers I fear. Should have listened to project fear eh?

[7by7]

8 minutes ago, vogie said:

 

I had nothing to fear from a "peoples vote" either, another sneaky way to ignore the democratic decision our country voted on, "I am a democrat" ????????????

 The forum's archives do not go back that far, so I have no proof of what I am about to say.

After the 2016 referendum I accepted the result; albeit reluctantly.

It was only when the realities of Brexit, dismissed as 'Project Fear' by Leave, became more and more apparent did I join calls for the so called 'people's vote' on the terms of any withdrawal agreement; whether it be May's or Johnson's. 

If you "had nothing to fear from a "peoples vote"" how would holding one have been a "sneaky way to ignore the democratic decision our country voted on?" 

You may also argue that the 2019 general election was such a vote on Johnson's WA; but remember that only 43% voted for Johnson and his deal.

In Scotland the SNP in their manifesto called for another independence referendum. They received 45% of the vote. If 43% is a mandate for Johnson's WA, why is 45% not a mandate for an independence referendum in Scotland?

If you are so confident that the result of any such referendum would be to remain part of the UK, how is holding it a "sneaky way to ignore the democratic decision" Scotland voted on in 2014?

[7by7]

21 minutes ago, vogie said:

The will of the people in Scotland is to remain in our union, the will of the SNP I don't give two hoots for.

 The will of the people of Scotland as expressed in 2014 was to remain in a UK which was a member of the EU.

That UK no longer exists.

Why are you so afraid of giving the people of Scotland the choice of remaining in the new UK or not?

[RuamRudy]

2 hours ago, Rookiescot said:

Unelected faceless bureaucrats. 

As per usual, what will transpire will be 50 low level admin positions with set up costs in the region of £5 billion (categorised as Other/Discretional), which will be attributed to Scotland. Serco and GS4 will each get £50 million per year service contracts for Miscellaneous Services. 

[vogie]

50 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

If the SNP win the election in May with a policy of holding a referendum then thats the will of the people Vogie.

No ifs, no buts and no maybe.

Troubling times ahead for unionist Brexiteers I fear. Should have listened to project fear eh?

The SNP securing an hung parliament does not mean the Scots want to leave the UK, infact it is not looking good at all is it, have you stopped following the polls now they are not going your way. Polls are saying that the Scots that want seperation are in the minority and the SNP will not get as many seats as predicted, do you agree? The SNP has shot themselves in the foot but the nationalists will still carry on regardless as if nothing has happened, this scandal is not going anywhere fast rookie. As we say in Yorkshire, 'she has muckied her ticket.'

[vogie]

42 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

 The will of the people of Scotland as expressed in 2014 was to remain in a UK which was a member of the EU.

That UK no longer exists.

Why are you so afraid of giving the people of Scotland the choice of remaining in the new UK or not?

Scotland was never in the EU!

[tebee]

29 minutes ago, vogie said:

Scotland was never in the EU!

Scotland was in the UK. The UK was in the EU. So it was in the EU

[vogie]

Just now, tebee said:

Scotland was in the UK. The UK was in the EU. So it was in the EU

Only in your eyes tebee, we joined as the UK, we left as the UK.

[tebee]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

Only in your eyes tebee, we joined as the UK, we left as the UK.

Indeed and that is why Scotland deserves it's independence. It didn't vote to leave, but was dragged out against it's wishes.

 

 

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, tebee said:

Indeed and that is why Scotland deserves it's independence. It didn't vote to leave, but was dragged out against it's wishes.

 

 

It was not dragged out against its wishes because it was never in it. The United Kingdom joined and the United Kingdom voted to leave, we didn't vote by areas, towns or villages, we voted en bloc.

But talking about people dragging other people out of the UK, just look at this map of Scotland and the areas that are being dragged out by the SNP. Have you any sympathy here?