SURVEY: Should Scotland seek independence from the UK?

[bkkcanuck8]

5 hours ago, vogie said:

Probably from the same poll.

The survey, conducted for The Scotsman by Savanta ComRes, found that 45% of respondents said they would vote Yes if the vote was held tomorrow, while 47% said they would vote No and 8% said they did not know.

When unsure voters were excluded, 51% said they would vote in favour of the union while 49% would vote for independence.

 

The poll in The Scotsman indicated the SNP is no longer on course for a majority in Holryood elections in May.

It found that the SNP would return 64 MSPs, missing out on a majority by one seat.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/uk-news/scottish-independence-boris-johnson-to-assert-indyref2-will-not-be-granted-even-if-snp-win-election-in-may-3163419

If you are going to rely on polls like that as your final result - you would not have Brexited.  49/51 is within the margin of error for any poll published typically.  So basically by admitting that the poll is this close -- it is a valid question to get an official result for.

[bkkcanuck8]

3 hours ago, agudbuk said:

Can the English have a referendum to see if they want to eject Scotland from the union?  

No, but England (and Wales if they want) can have a referendum on whether they want to leave the Union and leave Scotland in it.

[bkkcanuck8]

5 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Their objective is to secure independence. But they do not own the franchise nor do they have the monopoly on the goal. The current situation in Holyrood is that a majority of MSPs come from parties which explicitly campaign to achieve independence. It is very likely that that situation will prevail after May. You see, it really isn't that hard a concept to grasp - independence transcends any one party.

It is not only a mistake of the UK, it has been a mistake of Canada (and the EU) as well... while Scottish nationalists sell a dream - the other side trying to keep the union together often revert to base tactics of relying on fear of unknown or fear of change.  That fear often works in the short term, but fails in the long term.  If the UK cannot figure out how to sell the dream of a United Kingdom... eventually the fear campaign will fail. 

[7by7]

On 3/13/2021 at 11:04 AM, vogie said:

On 3/13/2021 at 10:21 AM, 7by7 said:

 The will of the people of Scotland as expressed in 2014 was to remain in a UK which was a member of the EU.

That UK no longer exists.

Why are you so afraid of giving the people of Scotland the choice of remaining in the new UK or not?

Scotland was never in the EU!

When did I ever say that Scotland was?

Certainly not in the post you quoted!

I repeat, yet again, in the hope that this time you'll respond to what I actually say and ask rather than remarking on something I never said.

The will of the people of Scotland as expressed in 2014 was to remain in a UK which was a member of the EU.

That UK no longer exists.

Why are you so afraid of giving the people of Scotland the choice of remaining in the new UK or not?

[7by7]

8 hours ago, vogie said:

<snip>And I might suggest that most of the Scots agree with my views much to the consternation of the SNP.

If that is so, then you have nothing to fear from IndyRef 2!

So why are you so against giving the Scottish people the choice?

[7by7]

8 hours ago, vogie said:

Probably from the same poll.

The survey, conducted for The Scotsman by Savanta ComRes, found that 45% of respondents said they would vote Yes if the vote was held tomorrow, while 47% said they would vote No and 8% said they did not know.

When unsure voters were excluded, 51% said they would vote in favour of the union while 49% would vote for independence.

 

The poll in The Scotsman indicated the SNP is no longer on course for a majority in Holryood elections in May.

It found that the SNP would return 64 MSPs, missing out on a majority by one seat.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/uk-news/scottish-independence-boris-johnson-to-assert-indyref2-will-not-be-granted-even-if-snp-win-election-in-may-3163419

 

As I always say, the only poll which counts is the one at the ballot box.

If, @vogie, the parties supporting independence win a majority in the forthcoming election, will you finally agree that the Scottish people deserve another chance to decide whether or not to remain a part of the UK?

Given your oft repeated claim to be a believer in democracy, surely it would be hypocritical not to.

[vogie]

Now the SNP are having polls to see when they're going to have a poll and Angus Robertson is totally ecstatic about it, I thought it was going to be this year. If this is meant to keep the SNP followers gnashing at the bit, I think he has miscalculated judging by the reaction of the next post, another follower gone. ????????????

[Rookiescot]

6 minutes ago, vogie said:

Now the SNP are having polls to see when they're going to have a poll and Angus Robertson is totally ecstatic about it, I thought it was going to be this year. If this is meant to keep the SNP followers gnashing at the bit, I think he has miscalculated judging by the reaction of the next post, another follower gone. ????????????

People are getting frustrated. Its only natural. But a poll showing 55% see another referendum as being a given?

Not looking good for the Brexiteers/English nationalists is it?

Or are you back to not believing polls again?

[tebee]

On 3/14/2021 at 4:44 AM, vogie said:

I don't respond to insults and that is why Scottish and indeed all Nationalism must be eradicated from our Island Nation, it is turning our citizens into people that hate others for not sharing their destructive nature.

I'd like to eliminate nationalism too, starting with the nationalism that drove the Brexit vote.

[Sujo]

On 3/14/2021 at 2:30 PM, agudbuk said:

OK lets make it a vote for Independence and  home rule for England.  

Be sure you get permission from scotland before you get a vote.

[vogie]

2 hours ago, tebee said:

I'd like to eliminate nationalism too, starting with the nationalism that drove the Brexit vote.

Ah the remainer mantra, unfortunately the only nationalists that are in Westminster as MPs are all SNPs, yet many on here are quite willing to support them, why is that tebee? 

[RuamRudy]

12 minutes ago, vogie said:

Ah the remainer mantra, unfortunately the only nationalists that are in Westminster as MPs are all SNPs, yet many on here are quite willing to support them, why is that tebee? 

And more than 80% of Scotland's MPs are nationalists yet many on here wish to deny democracy. That they also act as apologists for the anti democratic Westminster government is wholly coincidental, I am sure. 

[tebee]

38 minutes ago, vogie said:

Ah the remainer mantra, unfortunately the only nationalists that are in Westminster as MPs are all SNPs, yet many on here are quite willing to support them, why is that tebee? 

Are you suggesting nationalism had nothing to do with the Brexit vote?

Equally are you suggesting that UK nationalism has nothing to do with wanting to keep Scotland and NI as part of the UK?

I think the Scots were cheated, but surely you must agree that's what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

[JonnyF]

On 3/14/2021 at 2:19 PM, Rookiescot said:

Bit late trying to get nationalism eradicated. Brexit is already done.

Why would you wish to eradicate nationalism when you yourself are a hardcore Scottish nationalist?

Once again you are showing your hypocrisy...

Scottish nationalism and leaving the UK is logical and virtuous.

British nationalism and leaving the EU is stupid and racist.

You can't have it both ways. Maybe you are much more similar to the Brexiteers that you so detest than you would like to admit? Maybe the insults to Brexiteers the last 5 years are simply projection?

[vogie]

38 minutes ago, tebee said:

Are you suggesting nationalism had nothing to do with the Brexit vote?

Equally are you suggesting that UK nationalism has nothing to do with wanting to keep Scotland and NI as part of the UK?

I think the Scots were cheated, but surely you must agree that's what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

Just to clear things up, I am not suggesting anything, I am saying all this support for Scottish Nationalism is the result of a democratic vote and Scotland wasn't cheated out of anything as it was a UK vote, as soon as the remainers start recognising that fact they might be able to move on with their lives.

[RuamRudy]

10 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Why would you wish to eradicate nationalism when you yourself are a hardcore Scottish nationalist?

Once again you are showing your hypocrisy...

Scottish nationalism and leaving the UK is logical and virtuous.

British nationalism and leaving the EU is stupid and racist.

You can't have it both ways. Maybe you are much more similar to the Brexiteers that you so detest than you would like to admit? Maybe the insults to Brexiteers the last 5 years are simply projection?

You need to understand the difference between ethnic nationalism (the driving force behind Brexit) and civic nationalism, the aspirational goal of Scottish independence. 

[vogie]

1 minute ago, RuamRudy said:

You need to understand the difference between ethnic nationalism (the driving force behind Brexit) and civic nationalism, the aspirational goal of Scottish independence. 

We have understood that for a while RR, all forms of nationalism are bad except Scot nationalism which is good. ????????????

[JonnyF]

5 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

You need to understand the difference between ethnic nationalism (the driving force behind Brexit) and civic nationalism, the aspirational goal of Scottish independence. 

Purely your opinion, voiced in an attempt to disguise the ugliness of Scottish nationalism and the SNP.

Given the ethnic demographics of Scotland compared to the rest of the UK, it would be easy to make the case that Scottish nationalism has it's roots in ethnic nationalism, should one wish to do so.

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

We have understood that for a while RR, all forms of nationalism are bad except Scot nationalism which is good. ????????????

Can I help it you made some bad choices in you life, Vogie? You hitched your wagon to the nasty, virulent kind of nationalism - that should hardly come as news to you at this point. It is certainly well understood worldwide. 

And that's the very reason that the egalitarian response of Scottish Nationalism continues is ascendancy. 

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, JonnyF said:

Purely your opinion, voiced in an attempt to disguise the ugliness of Scottish nationalism and the SNP.

Given the ethnic demographics of Scotland compared to the rest of the UK, it would be easy to make the case that Scottish nationalism has it's roots in ethnic nationalism, should one wish to do so.

The opinion of many more than me, as demonstrated by the rancid racism from your Brexit leaders, lapped up eagerly but the racist Brexit supporters across England. The world watched in horror at what your country became. Scotland wasn't alone in that horror. 

[Rookiescot]

21 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Why would you wish to eradicate nationalism when you yourself are a hardcore Scottish nationalist?

Once again you are showing your hypocrisy...

Scottish nationalism and leaving the UK is logical and virtuous.

British nationalism and leaving the EU is stupid and racist.

You can't have it both ways. Maybe you are much more similar to the Brexiteers that you so detest than you would like to admit? Maybe the insults to Brexiteers the last 5 years are simply projection?

I want to leave the UK and rejoin the EU.

So nothing like you Brexiteers at all.

[vogie]

4 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

I want to leave the UK and rejoin the EU.

So nothing like you Brexiteers at all.

Fortunately the majority of Scots don't share you opinion.

[JonnyF]

6 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

The opinion of many more than me, as demonstrated by the rancid racism from your Brexit leaders, lapped up eagerly but the racist Brexit supporters across England. The world watched in horror at what your country became. Scotland wasn't alone in that horror. 

Once again and true to form, purely unsubstantiated claims, hyperbole and the use of the R word when you don't have any compelling argument.

Why is it you really want to leave the ethnically diverse UK to isolate yourselves up in the north sea? Sounds like the European equivalent of North Korea.

[Rookiescot]

Just now, vogie said:

Fortunately the majority of Scots don't share you opinion.

How do you know?

The result of the previous referendum is now out of date owing to Brexit.

[JonnyF]

9 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

I want to leave the UK and rejoin the EU.

So nothing like you Brexiteers at all.

Thou doth protest too much, methinks.

[Rookiescot]

8 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Thou doth protest too much, methinks.

Simply a statement of fact. The EU is by in large governed by consensus.

The UK is governed by a right wing nationalist corrupt cabal.

[RuamRudy]

8 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

How do you know?

The result of the previous referendum is now out of date owing to Brexit.

And has been explained multiple times, the majority of Scots wanted to leave in 2014, just as the majority of Scots wanted home rule in 1979. 

In fact, in its 300 odd years of existence, has there ever been a plebiscite which suggested that the majority of Scots wanted to be part of this so-called union?

[RuamRudy]

1 minute ago, Rookiescot said:

Simply a statement of fact. The EU is by in large governed by consensus.

The UK is governed by a right wing nationalist corrupt cabal.

I saw this morning the photos of the new UK press briefing room. £2.7 million for this.

I estimate £25,000 per chair; probably £100,000 for the Henry vaccum cleaner that is in the right of the photo, but that's still less than half a million. Who pocketed the rest?

[JonnyF]

9 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Simply a statement of fact. The EU is by in large governed by consensus.

The UK is governed by a right wing nationalist corrupt cabal.

Whereas Scotland is governed by a left wing corrupt nationalist cabal.

The fact that the Scottish nationalists wish to remove themselves from the ethnically diverse United Kingdom and isolate itself in the North sea with no trade deals with it's closest trading partners is not a particularly progressive policy in my opinion.

It seems the majority Scots are waking up to the fact and support for second referendum is falling.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19159508.scottish-independence-quarter-scots-support-indyref2-next-year-poll-suggests/

[Rookiescot]

Just now, RuamRudy said:

I saw this morning the photos of the new UK press briefing room. £2.7 million for this.

I estimate £25,000 per chair; probably £100,000 for the Henry vaccum cleaner that is in the right of the photo, but that's still less than half a million. Who pocketed the rest?

Dyson wont be happy with Henry sitting in the corner ????.

Given how much he has donated to the Conservatives and his support for Brexit.

Odd he left the UK and moved to Singapore as soon as the referendum was done.